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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:56 am 
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Lenny wrote:
Conspicuous wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:
Franno would also fit into the squandered category, wouldn't he? He'd go from the sublime to dogshit in the space of 2 games.


Yep, definitely an unfulfilled talent. Iain Henderson is an interesting one too , a bit of a mercurial talent given his freakish athleticism and ability. At times he looks world class then other times he doesn’t seem like his heart is in it . If he’d half of Paulie’s intensity....


A controversial one I’m sure, but despite all his caps and honours I think MOK largely wasted his massive talent through a fairly shit attitude. He had more natural talent than any Irish lock I’ve seen, and if he had half of POC, or even DOCs, drive he’d be mentioned in the same conversation with the likes of Eales and Retallick imo.

92 caps and 40 points( for a second row :shock: ) says you're wrong, you closet Kidneycaver you !


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:00 am 
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The biggest waste of talent in rugby currently is Willie Anderson and Kieron Campbell.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:05 am 
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Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:
Floppykid wrote:
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11701/11964591/james-mcclean-stoke-city-punish-midfielder-over-social-media-post

What a dumb knack.


He really is a dope. Spends his time complaining that he's discriminated against and then posts something like that.

I’m surprised this wasn’t picked up on earlier. Knack doesnt cover it. If there’s any doubt on his stance about the poppy it’s gone now. Talk about a plum.

I think he’s a cock of the highest order
But I thought that was quite funny to be honest


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:09 am 
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Leinsterman wrote:
Conspicuous wrote:
CM11 wrote:
There's only one answer to this question.


Des Dillon ?


Closely followed by Jeremy Staunton

Eddie Halvey.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:14 pm 
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boringperson12 wrote:
The biggest waste of talent in rugby currently is Willie Anderson and Kieron Campbell.

Shhh we're not allowed to say that now that we have one or two backrowers that we should be thankful for.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:36 pm 
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JJ Hanraha, despite certainly showing more this season will go down as wasted talent I think.

When you look at others players we had nominated for u20s world player - Ringrose, Deegan etc, he has never delivered on that potential.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:03 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
JJ Hanraha, despite certainly showing more this season will go down as wasted talent I think.

When you look at others players we had nominated for u20s world player - Ringrose, Deegan etc, he has never delivered on that potential.

Ah that's pessimistic. He's got time to recover.

Although I didn't realise he was 27.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:07 pm 
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unseenwork wrote:
boringperson12 wrote:
The biggest waste of talent in rugby currently is Willie Anderson and Kieron Campbell.

Shhh we're not allowed to say that now that we have one or two backrowers that we should be thankful for.

Keiran Campbell said in an interview a last year that he considers the Ulster academy to be the best in Irish rugby. :(


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:07 pm 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
JJ Hanraha, despite certainly showing more this season will go down as wasted talent I think.

When you look at others players we had nominated for u20s world player - Ringrose, Deegan etc, he has never delivered on that potential.

Ah that's pessimistic. He's got time to recover.

Although I didn't realise he was 27.

He will have a decent pro career, but it is likely he won’t be capped by Ireland. As soon as Joey is fit, he will be in ahead of him (but if I accept)

I had him pegged as an elite type player, he has had games where he totally balls and games where his is meh


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:08 pm 
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Willie Falloon wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
boringperson12 wrote:
The biggest waste of talent in rugby currently is Willie Anderson and Kieron Campbell.

Shhh we're not allowed to say that now that we have one or two backrowers that we should be thankful for.

Keiran Campbell said in an interview a last year that he considers the Ulster academy to be the best in Irish rugby. :(

Isn’t he in charge of the academy up there? He is hardly going to say anything else to be fair!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:09 pm 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
JJ Hanraha, despite certainly showing more this season will go down as wasted talent I think.

When you look at others players we had nominated for u20s world player - Ringrose, Deegan etc, he has never delivered on that potential.

Ah that's pessimistic. He's got time to recover.

Although I didn't realise he was 27.

No he doesn't have time unfortunatly. He'll never be an Irish starter/bench player.

He falls in the same bracket as Madigan and Carbery(IMO), in that he is too lose to play 10 and not solid enoughfor 12.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:18 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Lenny wrote:
Conspicuous wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:
Franno would also fit into the squandered category, wouldn't he? He'd go from the sublime to dogshit in the space of 2 games.


Yep, definitely an unfulfilled talent. Iain Henderson is an interesting one too , a bit of a mercurial talent given his freakish athleticism and ability. At times he looks world class then other times he doesn’t seem like his heart is in it . If he’d half of Paulie’s intensity....


A controversial one I’m sure, but despite all his caps and honours I think MOK largely wasted his massive talent through a fairly shit attitude. He had more natural talent than any Irish lock I’ve seen, and if he had half of POC, or even DOCs, drive he’d be mentioned in the same conversation with the likes of Eales and Retallick imo.

92 caps and 40 points( for a second row :shock: ) says you're wrong, you closet Kidneycaver you !

Mal had incredible pace, athleticism, engine and handling while being a couple of inches taller than your average lock. The whole thing probably came easier than it did to your POCs or DOCs and would explain why he didn't have the drive they had. He still had a great career. Selected for two Lions tours too.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:14 pm 
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alliswell wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Lenny wrote:
Conspicuous wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:
Franno would also fit into the squandered category, wouldn't he? He'd go from the sublime to dogshit in the space of 2 games.


Yep, definitely an unfulfilled talent. Iain Henderson is an interesting one too , a bit of a mercurial talent given his freakish athleticism and ability. At times he looks world class then other times he doesn’t seem like his heart is in it . If he’d half of Paulie’s intensity....


A controversial one I’m sure, but despite all his caps and honours I think MOK largely wasted his massive talent through a fairly shit attitude. He had more natural talent than any Irish lock I’ve seen, and if he had half of POC, or even DOCs, drive he’d be mentioned in the same conversation with the likes of Eales and Retallick imo.

92 caps and 40 points( for a second row :shock: ) says you're wrong, you closet Kidneycaver you !

Mal had incredible pace, athleticism, engine and handling while being a couple of inches taller than your average lock. The whole thing probably came easier than it did to your POCs or DOCs and would explain why he didn't have the drive they had. He still had a great career. Selected for two Lions tours too.


Sensational athlete, but lacked a hard edge. He was still well bloody worth his place on most Irish sides he played in, as his talent/atheleticism was such that he was still delivering. Never a passenger. But what he could have done with a shred of the edge of a Paulie - Jaysus, the bind moggles.

Met him in Russia on that RWC qualifier trip, and a nicer, more personable fella you couldn't wish to meet. Just an absolute gent.

And it's a sad old sport in some ways when you are deriding a fella for not being more of a cnut.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:57 pm 
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Willie Falloon wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
JJ Hanraha, despite certainly showing more this season will go down as wasted talent I think.

When you look at others players we had nominated for u20s world player - Ringrose, Deegan etc, he has never delivered on that potential.

Ah that's pessimistic. He's got time to recover.

Although I didn't realise he was 27.

No he doesn't have time unfortunatly. He'll never be an Irish starter/bench player.

He falls in the same bracket as Madigan and Carbery(IMO), in that he is too lose to play 10 and not solid enoughfor 12.

He's brought it together a bit this season tbh.
It's a shame for him that the season's gone.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:03 pm 
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When you look at everyone we've capped in the last decade or so, it's curious a player with as much talent as JJ hasn't even gotten a sniff and very possibly won't at all at this stage. There were a few stories going around about clashes with coaches and the likes before he moved to England, and the move to England was a bit of a disaster though he also got a very bad injury over there.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:04 pm 
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redderneck wrote:
Sensational athlete, but lacked a hard edge. He was still well bloody worth his place on most Irish sides he played in, as his talent/atheleticism was such that he was still delivering. Never a passenger. But what he could have done with a shred of the edge of a Paulie - Jaysus, the bind moggles.

Met him in Russia on that RWC qualifier trip, and a nicer, more personable fella you couldn't wish to meet. Just an absolute gent.

And it's a sad old sport in some ways when you are deriding a fella for not being more of a cnut.


But then, I'd flip that the other way and say "what could Paulie/DOC/D Ryan have done with an ounce of Mal's ball skills?" And really, it's like saying "If only Darse was the size of Rob Henderson." Each player comes as a package, and some parts of that can be improved, and some parts of it, you take what you get.

Mal was streets ahead of any Irish lock in the pro era in terms of getting around the pitch, getting up in the air in the middle of the lineout, and handling in support. I remember against the Boks in 2000, he caught more of South Africa's throws than Mark Andrews did, and of course he ruined the English lineout in the F&M game in '01. If his "downside" was that he didn't seem to get aggro enough, (and didn't give away penalties like DOC did in the last few minutes against Wales in 09, or POC Supermanning over a ruck under the AB's posts for the Lions) then I'll accept that as part of the package.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:14 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
When you look at everyone we've capped in the last decade or so, it's curious a player with as much talent as JJ hasn't even gotten a sniff and very possibly won't at all at this stage. There were a few stories going around about clashes with coaches and the likes before he moved to England, and the move to England was a bit of a disaster though he also got a very bad injury over there.


It's a bit "If my aunt had balls," but the 2 seasons he spent in England, from age 23 to 25, were probably right at the time when you'd expect a player with his talent to be getting a cap or 2 against a tier 2 opponent, or in a RWC warmup, or at the very least called up to hold tackle bags during the 6N.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:23 pm 
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Willie Falloon wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
boringperson12 wrote:
The biggest waste of talent in rugby currently is Willie Anderson and Kieron Campbell.

Shhh we're not allowed to say that now that we have one or two backrowers that we should be thankful for.

Keiran Campbell said in an interview a last year that he considers the Ulster academy to be the best in Irish rugby. :(


Willie Anderson says Ulster's Academy is better than Leinsters... say they just have more numbers :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:25 pm 
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boringperson12 wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
boringperson12 wrote:
The biggest waste of talent in rugby currently is Willie Anderson and Kieron Campbell.

Shhh we're not allowed to say that now that we have one or two backrowers that we should be thankful for.

Keiran Campbell said in an interview a last year that he considers the Ulster academy to be the best in Irish rugby. :(


Willie Anderson says Ulster's Academy is better than Leinsters... say they just have more numbers :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's plausible.

I wouldn't say it publically, but numbers are pretty key.

Once you have a reasonable set up in place, population begins to really matter.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:31 pm 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
boringperson12 wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
boringperson12 wrote:
The biggest waste of talent in rugby currently is Willie Anderson and Kieron Campbell.

Shhh we're not allowed to say that now that we have one or two backrowers that we should be thankful for.

Keiran Campbell said in an interview a last year that he considers the Ulster academy to be the best in Irish rugby. :(


Willie Anderson says Ulster's Academy is better than Leinsters... say they just have more numbers :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's plausible.

I wouldn't say it publically, but numbers are pretty key.

Once you have a reasonable set up in place, population begins to really matter.

Correct. Too many variables in that statement really, and in reality the academies are probably all streamlined under the IRFU anyway. There's nothing to me that would suggest Leinster's is better than Ulster's but what is absolutely certain is that Leinster's pre-academy system is a cut above anything we have currently. So when you're bringing in better quality players at the beginning, you're always going to get a better outcome even if they go through the same "programme".


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:06 am 
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DOB wrote:
redderneck wrote:
Sensational athlete, but lacked a hard edge. He was still well bloody worth his place on most Irish sides he played in, as his talent/atheleticism was such that he was still delivering. Never a passenger. But what he could have done with a shred of the edge of a Paulie - Jaysus, the bind moggles.

Met him in Russia on that RWC qualifier trip, and a nicer, more personable fella you couldn't wish to meet. Just an absolute gent.

And it's a sad old sport in some ways when you are deriding a fella for not being more of a cnut.


But then, I'd flip that the other way and say "what could Paulie/DOC/D Ryan have done with an ounce of Mal's ball skills?" And really, it's like saying "If only Darse was the size of Rob Henderson." Each player comes as a package, and some parts of that can be improved, and some parts of it, you take what you get.

Mal was streets ahead of any Irish lock in the pro era in terms of getting around the pitch, getting up in the air in the middle of the lineout, and handling in support. I remember against the Boks in 2000, he caught more of South Africa's throws than Mark Andrews did, and of course he ruined the English lineout in the F&M game in '01. If his "downside" was that he didn't seem to get aggro enough, (and didn't give away penalties like DOC did in the last few minutes against Wales in 09, or POC Supermanning over a ruck under the AB's posts for the Lions) then I'll accept that as part of the package.


Mal is a bit of a legend and a lovely guy so I don't want to be too harsh. He did have many great games but there are too many stories about him not being tuned in to wonder whether he did fulfill his talent. IIRC the beginning of the end was a no show at training in the 2007 World Cup, I think probably his teammates had lost trust in him, I know a couple were seriously pissed off with him.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:43 am 
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Not that it's excusable, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't give a shit during that RWC. Eddie had his untouchables and Mal want getting on the field unless someone got broken, despite the lineout melting down.

Not a good look, but hardly surprising for someone who was a "laid back" trainer.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:53 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
Not that it's excusable, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't give a shit during that RWC. Eddie had his untouchables and Mal want getting on the field unless someone got broken, despite the lineout melting down.

Not a good look, but hardly surprising for someone who was a "laid back" trainer.


These guys are human. Wasn't there a season where D.Humph made every matchday squad in a 6N but played 0 minutes? Think I can remember him talking about it after he retired, wondering to himself what the fudge he was doing giving up all this time away from his family to sit on his arse on the bench.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:55 am 
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Sure Joe Marler retired from international because he wasn't enjoying the time away from family etc. They're human.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:57 am 
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danthefan wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Not that it's excusable, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't give a shit during that RWC. Eddie had his untouchables and Mal want getting on the field unless someone got broken, despite the lineout melting down.

Not a good look, but hardly surprising for someone who was a "laid back" trainer.


These guys are human. Wasn't there a season where D.Humph made every matchday squad in a 6N but played 0 minutes? Think I can remember him talking about it after he retired, wondering to himself what the fudge he was doing giving up all this time away from his family to sit on his arse on the bench.


Memory a bit vague now but I think EOS convinced him not to retire in 03/04 only to use him sparingly off the bench so as you say he decided not to give it another season.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:02 am 
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Banana Man wrote:
JJ Hanraha, despite certainly showing more this season will go down as wasted talent I think.

When you look at others players we had nominated for u20s world player - Ringrose, Deegan etc, he has never delivered on that potential.

Heaslip is the etc, no? We've only ever had 4. Deegan the only winner (although he was player of the tournament rather than player of the year, otherwise Ryan possibly might have won it). I think JJ benefited from playing behind the best Irish pack ever assembled at that level. He also played a lot of 12 at that level outside of Paddy Jackson so was always a bit of a utility option. Great squad player, won't go down as a great fly-half though.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:04 am 
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Re-watched last year's final over the weekend. Itoje should have been sent off.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:06 am 
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hermie wrote:
Re-watched last year's final over the weekend. Itoje should have been sent off.

For what? I forget most of the detail of that. Drank lots at it, never re-watched.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:37 am 
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CM11 wrote:
danthefan wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Not that it's excusable, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't give a shit during that RWC. Eddie had his untouchables and Mal want getting on the field unless someone got broken, despite the lineout melting down.

Not a good look, but hardly surprising for someone who was a "laid back" trainer.


These guys are human. Wasn't there a season where D.Humph made every matchday squad in a 6N but played 0 minutes? Think I can remember him talking about it after he retired, wondering to himself what the fudge he was doing giving up all this time away from his family to sit on his arse on the bench.


Memory a bit vague now but I think EOS convinced him not to retire in 03/04 only to use him sparingly off the bench so as you say he decided not to give it another season.


I think there was chat of Eddie begging him to come to France in 07 but Humph told him to get f**ked.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:44 am 
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CM11 wrote:
danthefan wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Not that it's excusable, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't give a shit during that RWC. Eddie had his untouchables and Mal want getting on the field unless someone got broken, despite the lineout melting down.

Not a good look, but hardly surprising for someone who was a "laid back" trainer.


These guys are human. Wasn't there a season where D.Humph made every matchday squad in a 6N but played 0 minutes? Think I can remember him talking about it after he retired, wondering to himself what the fudge he was doing giving up all this time away from his family to sit on his arse on the bench.


Memory a bit vague now but I think EOS convinced him not to retire in 03/04 only to use him sparingly off the bench so as you say he decided not to give it another season.

I think it was sitting on the bench knowing that even if ROG was playing like a drain and he was playing well for Ulster (which he was, even the next season when we won the league) he would only get on as a token time wasting sub.

Games like the heavy defeat to France in the 04 six nations (0 minutes) coming after the 2003 world cup where he'd come off he bench when we were being hammered and we scored 3 tries with him at 10 against the same opposition, signalled how EOS was never going to change his pecking order.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:53 am 
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hermie wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
JJ Hanraha, despite certainly showing more this season will go down as wasted talent I think.

When you look at others players we had nominated for u20s world player - Ringrose, Deegan etc, he has never delivered on that potential.

Heaslip is the etc, no? We've only ever had 4. Deegan the only winner (although he was player of the tournament rather than player of the year, otherwise Ryan possibly might have won it). I think JJ benefited from playing behind the best Irish pack ever assembled at that level. He also played a lot of 12 at that level outside of Paddy Jackson so was always a bit of a utility option. Great squad player, won't go down as a great fly-half though.

Jackson only played two games at 20s in the 6N - JJ was 10 for all the others and the world cup.

He was fantastic in that world cup and while it was an excellent pack for sure, think thats doing his play in 2012 a disservice.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:57 am 
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danthefan wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Not that it's excusable, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't give a shit during that RWC. Eddie had his untouchables and Mal want getting on the field unless someone got broken, despite the lineout melting down.

Not a good look, but hardly surprising for someone who was a "laid back" trainer.


These guys are human. Wasn't there a season where D.Humph made every matchday squad in a 6N but played 0 minutes? Think I can remember him talking about it after he retired, wondering to himself what the fudge he was doing giving up all this time away from his family to sit on his arse on the bench.

Yeah, the older I get the less I'm bothered by people not giving a shit when they're badly managed.

Eddie's Immortals were the only lads with a chance of starting, why would anybody else be arsed?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:07 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
hermie wrote:
Re-watched last year's final over the weekend. Itoje should have been sent off.

For what? I forget most of the detail of that. Drank lots at it, never re-watched.

He was binned in the first half for persistent infringing (Sarries had 3 offences in quick succession in their 22, Itoje pinged twice - both offside I think). In the second half forearm smash on Sexton right on the chin cw afters on the deck - not picked up by the officials. Then took Kearney out in the air and Garces deemed just a penalty. Both clear YC offside which obviously would have meant red for him.

Compared to Fardy's yellow which was one offside and barely at that, we really didn't get the rub from the officials. Although you rarely do when getting physically dominated. What did impress me though was quite how well we played against a team so dominant in the collisions. By far the better team for the first 50 mins. The two big moments (Luke McGrath not kicking at on 40mins and Ringrose butchering a huge overlap and subsequently getting turned over) still stick in the craw.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:41 am 
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Banana Man wrote:
hermie wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
JJ Hanraha, despite certainly showing more this season will go down as wasted talent I think.

When you look at others players we had nominated for u20s world player - Ringrose, Deegan etc, he has never delivered on that potential.

Heaslip is the etc, no? We've only ever had 4. Deegan the only winner (although he was player of the tournament rather than player of the year, otherwise Ryan possibly might have won it). I think JJ benefited from playing behind the best Irish pack ever assembled at that level. He also played a lot of 12 at that level outside of Paddy Jackson so was always a bit of a utility option. Great squad player, won't go down as a great fly-half though.

Jackson only played two games at 20s in the 6N - JJ was 10 for all the others and the world cup.

He was fantastic in that world cup and while it was an excellent pack for sure, think thats doing his play in 2012 a disservice.

Perhaps, it was 8 years ago and I probably didn't see all the games. But from what I remember his kicking game (apart from chips and grubbers) wasn't really where it needed to be, certainly compared with Paddy Jackson. And it took a while for that side of his game to improve. A good pack can mask that as they'll be winning collisions/penalties and have you in the right areas that way. It's worth remembering just how good that pack was - Scannell, Furlong, Beirne, Hendo, Conan; Jordan Coghlan was excellent at that tournament as well and an u19 van der Flier coming off the bench. JJ varied the play well, placekicking was always good and obviously could do the stuff ball in hand but the deficiencies were in his game were there if you looked hard enough imo.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:50 am 
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Conor Gilsenan was in that pack too Hermie, excellent at that level and big things expected from him


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:55 am 
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hermie wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
hermie wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
JJ Hanraha, despite certainly showing more this season will go down as wasted talent I think.

When you look at others players we had nominated for u20s world player - Ringrose, Deegan etc, he has never delivered on that potential.

Heaslip is the etc, no? We've only ever had 4. Deegan the only winner (although he was player of the tournament rather than player of the year, otherwise Ryan possibly might have won it). I think JJ benefited from playing behind the best Irish pack ever assembled at that level. He also played a lot of 12 at that level outside of Paddy Jackson so was always a bit of a utility option. Great squad player, won't go down as a great fly-half though.

Jackson only played two games at 20s in the 6N - JJ was 10 for all the others and the world cup.

He was fantastic in that world cup and while it was an excellent pack for sure, think thats doing his play in 2012 a disservice.

Perhaps, it was 8 years ago and I probably didn't see all the games. But from what I remember his kicking game (apart from chips and grubbers) wasn't really where it needed to be, certainly compared with Paddy Jackson. And it took a while for that side of his game to improve. A good pack can mask that as they'll be winning collisions/penalties and have you in the right areas that way. It's worth remembering just how good that pack was - Scannell, Furlong, Beirne, Hendo, Conan; Jordan Coghlan was excellent at that tournament as well and an u19 van der Flier coming off the bench. JJ varied the play well, placekicking was always good and obviously could do the stuff ball in hand but the deficiencies were in his game were there if you looked hard enough imo.

Think you are misremembering, a little, he was draining long range kicks and putting in crossfield kicks to likes of Coughlan.

Deficiencies were in his game, because he was 19! The point is he was/is an unfulfilled talent, you are sort of making out like he wasn’t all that at all. I don’t believe he has only played to the standard that was expected of him or was his level. He achieved at a high level at that grade, two tries on his Munster debut from 12, people expected him to be capped. Comparison with Jackson isn't relevant in a sense because we all thought how lucky we were to have two serious options at 10 and sadly for a variety of reasons hasn't worked out that way

Just cause the pack is good doesn’t mean he wasn’t good. Being the back up Munster 10 until this season isn't good enough for what he could have been

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQIxpgjswdo


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:34 pm 
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Interesting to see the other nominees there, Adendorff currently play for Aurillac while Serfontein had a decent international career. So 2 of the 3 nominees didn't live up to their billing...


Last edited by Ulsters Red Hand on Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:50 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Jackson only played two games at 20s in the 6N - JJ was 10 for all the others and the world cup.

He was fantastic in that world cup and while it was an excellent pack for sure, think thats doing his play in 2012 a disservice.

Don't think Earl is on the bored right now, so I might get away with posting...

I thought coming out of the U20s that Hanrahan had the better set-up for the Professional Game (physically bigger and a much better goal-kicker at that stage) than Jackson.
I'd have been staggered, back then, to get a sneak peek at where JJ would be 7 or 8 years later. And gutted.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:31 pm 
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Maybe it was bias because he was competing with Jackson but I didn't buy the hype with JJ at the time.
I'm not saying he wasn't good, just that he was nowhere near the stand out for that team.

In hindsight I think he was lucky to be behind an unbelievable pack with Marmion inside him and Olding and Chris Farrell outside him.
It didn't really matter what option he chose because that team had all the options.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:32 pm 
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Ah no, JJ was excellent in that comp. But it was more individual stuff than controlling the game stuff.


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