Planet Rugby Forum

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:30 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:22 pm

redderneck wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:37 am What that graphic illustrates is just how fcuked we are when our lineout is got at. Which we've been aiding and abetting recently.

Was Bryan Byrne shite with Leinster? Seems ok at Bristol.

His throwing was abysmal, always been decent enough around the pitch.

Abysmal is a stretch. His size was probably the biggest thing against him.

Think that’s what stunned me so much in the Leinster v Munster game- the lineout, not just the throwing- all of it. Do the age group coaches look at the loose play above set piece?

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:42 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:40 pm

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:30 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:22 pm

redderneck wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:37 am What that graphic illustrates is just how fcuked we are when our lineout is got at. Which we've been aiding and abetting recently.

Was Bryan Byrne shite with Leinster? Seems ok at Bristol.

His throwing was abysmal, always been decent enough around the pitch.

Standard Leinster hooker then? I’ll have another look he’s live on BT against Sale tomorrow night. I thought he was ok

Pretty much haven't have a decent thrower since Mullet, his twin is Ed the prop.

Blaney. It was the only thing he was good for!

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:25 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:12 pm

irishrugbyua wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:15 pm

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:11 pm
I think Frawleys best chance of playing at higher levels is at 12 as he offers something different to any other 12 in the provinces. Think Harry better outhalf

Leinster coaches seem to agree.

He's not the bulkiest, but he's bigger than Byrne.
One thing that concerns me about Frawley is pace/acceleration.
From what I've seen he doesn't look super quick.

He is reasonably quick, 12s don't have be super quick how often do you see a 12 make an outside break. Farrell is not that quick.

Bar Jauzion, when I think of some of the best 12s of the last couple decades they've all had top end acceleration.

CM11 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:45 pm

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:30 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:22 pm

redderneck wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:37 am What that graphic illustrates is just how fcuked we are when our lineout is got at. Which we've been aiding and abetting recently.

Was Bryan Byrne shite with Leinster? Seems ok at Bristol.

His throwing was abysmal, always been decent enough around the pitch.

Abysmal is a stretch. His size was probably the biggest thing against him.

I don't think it is a stretch. His throwing was the worst of any Leinster hooker I can remember.

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:02 pm

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:25 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:12 pm

irishrugbyua wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:15 pm

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:11 pm
I think Frawleys best chance of playing at higher levels is at 12 as he offers something different to any other 12 in the provinces. Think Harry better outhalf

Leinster coaches seem to agree.

He's not the bulkiest, but he's bigger than Byrne.
One thing that concerns me about Frawley is pace/acceleration.
From what I've seen he doesn't look super quick.

He is reasonably quick, 12s don't have be super quick how often do you see a 12 make an outside break. Farrell is not that quick.

Bar Jauzion, when I think of some of the best 12s of the last couple decades they've all had top end acceleration.

Like who? Laumape is about the only one I can think of..

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:03 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:45 pm

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:30 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:22 pm

redderneck wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:37 am What that graphic illustrates is just how fcuked we are when our lineout is got at. Which we've been aiding and abetting recently.

Was Bryan Byrne shite with Leinster? Seems ok at Bristol.

His throwing was abysmal, always been decent enough around the pitch.

Abysmal is a stretch. His size was probably the biggest thing against him.

I don't think it is a stretch. His throwing was the worst of any Leinster hooker I can remember.

Harry Vermaas would like a word with you

CONNACHT MATCHDAY 23 VS DRAGONS RUGBY
Friday 5th February, Rodney Parade, k/o 7.35pm

Name/Number/Caps (* denotes uncapped)
15. John Porch (30)
14. Peter Sullivan (8)
13. Tom Daly (37)
12. Peter Robb (46)
11. Matt Healy (143)
10. Jack Carty (149)
9. Caolin Blade (121)
1. Denis Buckley (191)
2. Shane Delahunt (89)
3. Finlay Bealham (149)
4. Niall Murray (9)
5. Gavin Thornbury (49)
6. Paul Boyle (49) (C)
7. Conor Oliver (13)
8. Abraham Papali’i (5)

Replacements
16. Jonny Murphy (11)
17. Jordan Duggan (6)
18. Jack Aungier (9)
19. Oisin Dowling *
20. Eoghan Masterson (101)
21. Kieran Marmion (175)
22. Sean O’Brien (Acad) (2)
23. Alex Wootton (12)

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:56 pm Think that’s what stunned me so much in the Leinster v Munster game- the lineout, not just the throwing- all of it. Do the age group coaches look at the loose play above set piece?

Yes, most are converted from other positions at later age.

Although not the case with Byrne.

Leinster's system is just poor at coaching and developing that skill to a consistently high level, same goes for scrumhalf passing, for whatever reason.

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:04 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:02 pm

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:25 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:12 pm

irishrugbyua wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:15 pm

Leinster coaches seem to agree.

He's not the bulkiest, but he's bigger than Byrne.
One thing that concerns me about Frawley is pace/acceleration.
From what I've seen he doesn't look super quick.

He is reasonably quick, 12s don't have be super quick how often do you see a 12 make an outside break. Farrell is not that quick.

Bar Jauzion, when I think of some of the best 12s of the last couple decades they've all had top end acceleration.

Like who? Laumape is about the only one I can think of..

Nonu, Darcy, Gits, JOC, Horan.
Just off the top of my head.

rialtoblue wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:09 pm

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:03 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:45 pm

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:30 pm

DragsterDriver wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:22 pm

Was Bryan Byrne shite with Leinster? Seems ok at Bristol.

His throwing was abysmal, always been decent enough around the pitch.

Abysmal is a stretch. His size was probably the biggest thing against him.

I don't think it is a stretch. His throwing was the worst of any Leinster hooker I can remember.

Harry Vermaas would like a word with you

Poor old Harry. Could play all 3 position in the front-row but none particularly well. It's tough to remember but I'm going to go out on a limb and say his throwing was better than Byrne's for the most part. When Byrne had a bad day he was simply awful and he wasn't even great on a good day. It's amazing if he has sorted it out. Perhaps that's all he did throughout lockdown. Bad luck Leinster if so.

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:18 pm

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:04 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:02 pm

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:25 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:12 pm

He's not the bulkiest, but he's bigger than Byrne.
One thing that concerns me about Frawley is pace/acceleration.
From what I've seen he doesn't look super quick.

He is reasonably quick, 12s don't have be super quick how often do you see a 12 make an outside break. Farrell is not that quick.

Bar Jauzion, when I think of some of the best 12s of the last couple decades they've all had top end acceleration.

Like who? Laumape is about the only one I can think of..

Nonu, Darcy, Gits, JOC, Horan.
Just off the top of my head.

Sorry decades, I read years.

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:24 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:18 pm

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:04 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:02 pm

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:25 pm

He is reasonably quick, 12s don't have be super quick how often do you see a 12 make an outside break. Farrell is not that quick.

Bar Jauzion, when I think of some of the best 12s of the last couple decades they've all had top end acceleration.

Like who? Laumape is about the only one I can think of..

Nonu, Darcy, Gits, JOC, Horan.
Just off the top of my head.

Sorry decades, I read years.

Well 12 has been an incredibly weak/boring position since Nonu retired really.

When is the team announced? Somebody find Buck so i can show off my insider knowledge to my real word mates

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:25 pm

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:24 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:18 pm

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:04 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:02 pm

Bar Jauzion, when I think of some of the best 12s of the last couple decades they've all had top end acceleration.

Like who? Laumape is about the only one I can think of..

Nonu, Darcy, Gits, JOC, Horan.
Just off the top of my head.

Sorry decades, I read years.

Well 12 has been an incredibly weak/boring position since Nonu retired really.

But even in that time the game has changed so much, particularly defenses. 12s just have no time on the ball anymore so pace is that bit less of a concern.

HighKingLeinster wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:25 pm When is the team announced? Somebody find Buck so i can show off my insider knowledge to my real word mates

This announcing earlier in the week didn't bloody last at all

Interesting how many English players are high up in the tackle counts of both years. The evaluation of France and the lack of Irish, all seem to be pointing that defensive rugby has the advantage over to possession based rugby at the moment, surprise, surprise. Interesting how Ireland play this esp as we are decent at the breakdown and what seem to be more of an advantage towards the breakdown with the current law interruption.

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:33 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:25 pm

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:24 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:18 pm

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:04 pm
Like who? Laumape is about the only one I can think of..

Nonu, Darcy, Gits, JOC, Horan.
Just off the top of my head.

Sorry decades, I read years.

Well 12 has been an incredibly weak/boring position since Nonu retired really.

But even in that time the game has changed so much, particularly defenses. 12s just have no time on the ball anymore so pace is that bit less of a concern.

You're right, you're right.
But from that perspective I'd worry more about Frawley's size/strength then.
He's not in the Henshaw/DDA mould of budget 7.

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:39 pm

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:33 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:25 pm

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:24 pm

Floppykid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:18 pm
Nonu, Darcy, Gits, JOC, Horan.
Just off the top of my head.

Sorry decades, I read years.

Well 12 has been an incredibly weak/boring position since Nonu retired really.

But even in that time the game has changed so much, particularly defenses. 12s just have no time on the ball anymore so pace is that bit less of a concern.

You're right, you're right.
But from that perspective I'd worry more about Frawley's size/strength then.
He's not in the Henshaw/DDA mould of budget 7.

Yeah which is why I was thinking he was more likely to end up at 15. In NZ they're very keen on the second playmaker at fullback at the moment and they're usually ahead of the game. Frawley will struggle to unseat Henshaw, as good as his form has been.

Yeah, Henshaw gives you someone who'll hit brick walls and be a brick wall all day.
Coaches clearly value that known quantity.
If Frawley can succeed at 12 he'll either bulk up massively or the game will shift back to more attack based play (unlikely).

MunsterMan!!!!! wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:35 pm

Interesting how many English players are high up in the tackle counts of both years. The evaluation of France and the lack of Irish, all seem to be pointing that defensive rugby has the advantage over to possession based rugby at the moment, surprise, surprise. Interesting how Ireland play this esp as we are decent at the breakdown and what seem to be more of an advantage towards the breakdown with the current law interruption.

Not surprising really. England are perfectly happy in defense and will feed off opposition mistakes. When your D is as well-drilled as theirs it's actually quite a conservative approach. NZ/Crusaders used to play a similar enough game, particularly with Wayne Smith whose teams were always at their best off turnover ball. Total opposite to Joe Schmidt's possession-based game which has kind of fallen out of favour.

Lads we have to beat the Welsh.

I don't like them

Have we done the Indos top 50 Ireland players of the Six Nations been done?

I see the stadium manager says they will be playing “crowd noise” in the stadium during the match “both for the home and away team”

That’s going to be an interesting one to say the least.

Flametop wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:14 pm Have we done the Indos top 50 Ireland players of the Six Nations been done?

they'd have to pay me to read that shite from ROC.

Mullet 2 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:03 pm Lads we have to beat the Welsh.

I don't like them

All about building the mo'.

Fcuk it up and the 6N becomes a drawn-out full contact training session, unless someone else fcuks up worse.

irishrugbyua wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:25 pm

Flametop wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:14 pm Have we done the Indos top 50 Ireland players of the Six Nations been done?

they'd have to pay me to read that shite from ROC.

For the LOLS.

redderneck wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:25 pm

Mullet 2 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:03 pm Lads we have to beat the Welsh.

I don't like them

All about building the mo'.

Fcuk it up and the 6N becomes a drawn-out full contact training session, unless someone else fcuks up worse.

If we lose I’d expect to see POC lining out vs France next up. Maybe Tommy Bowe could be bright back in also.

1. David Kilcoyne
2. Rob Herring
3. Andrew Porter
4. Tadgh Beirne
5. James Ryan
6. POM
7. JVDF
8. CJ
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonny Sexton
11. James Lowe
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Keith Earls
15. Hugo Keenan

irishrugbyua wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:41 pm 1. David Kilcoyne
2. Rob Herring
3. Andrew Porter
4. Tadgh Beirne
5. James Ryan
6. POM
7. JVDF
8. CJ
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonny Sexton
11. James Lowe
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Keith Earls
15. Hugo Keenan

I saw that on another forum.
Where did you get that?

Where’s Buck these days?

irishrugbyua wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:41 pm 1. David Kilcoyne
2. Rob Herring
3. Andrew Porter
4. Tadgh Beirne
5. James Ryan
6. POM
7. JVDF
8. CJ
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonny Sexton
11. James Lowe
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Keith Earls
15. Hugo Keenan

VdF and POM in the same back row. Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

feckwanker wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:55 pm

irishrugbyua wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:41 pm 1. David Kilcoyne
2. Rob Herring
3. Andrew Porter
4. Tadgh Beirne
5. James Ryan
6. POM
7. JVDF
8. CJ
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonny Sexton
11. James Lowe
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Keith Earls
15. Hugo Keenan

VdF and POM in the same back row. Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

One is a wing and the other is a wing forward.

Bit lightweight.

irishrugbyua wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:41 pm 1. David Kilcoyne
2. Rob Herring
3. Andrew Porter
4. Tadgh Beirne
5. James Ryan
6. POM
7. JVDF
8. CJ
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonny Sexton
11. James Lowe
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Keith Earls
15. Hugo Keenan

I would be happy enough with that Healy has been on the wane, I think Wales might have advantage in the backrow. Hopefully Tadgh can finally bring his provincial form to international rugby.

Who’s going to carry in that pack?

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:50 pm

MunsterMan!!!!! wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:35 pm

Interesting how many English players are high up in the tackle counts of both years. The evaluation of France and the lack of Irish, all seem to be pointing that defensive rugby has the advantage over to possession based rugby at the moment, surprise, surprise. Interesting how Ireland play this esp as we are decent at the breakdown and what seem to be more of an advantage towards the breakdown with the current law interruption.

Not surprising really. England are perfectly happy in defense and will feed off opposition mistakes. When your D is as well-drilled as theirs it's actually quite a conservative approach. NZ/Crusaders used to play a similar enough game, particularly with Wayne Smith whose teams were always at their best off turnover ball. Total opposite to Joe Schmidt's possession-based game which has kind of fallen out of favour.

If flametop is not happy with how we play he should watch England play, they play a bit like Sarries now kick everything inside their own half and if nothing happens within a couple of phases they kick the ball. They bully teams with their defence which is actually offensive.

Flametop wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:59 pm Who’s going to carry in that pack?

Killer, porter, ryan, CJ, Beirne and VDF can be ok. Who would you pick?

@LC, nah you’re grand thanks.
Apart from Jonny May they are as dull as ditchwater.

https://www.the42.ie/will-hickey-osprey ... 2-Feb2021/

confirmation of a well known rumour.

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:01 pm

Flametop wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:59 pm Who’s going to carry in that pack?

Killer, porter, ryan, CJ, Beirne and VDF can be ok. Who would you pick?

Depends on how fit Leavy is. We might see him back for France or England.

Killer can carry, Porter also (presumably Furlong to appear at some stage). CJ is really struggling for yards, VDF is ok, Pete isn’t fast enough to be a winger and should be instructed to stop kicking the ball away. Beirne isn’t a baby eater but will hopefully win a few turnovers. Ruddock should be starting at this stage IMO.

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:00 pm

hermie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:50 pm

MunsterMan!!!!! wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:35 pm

Interesting how many English players are high up in the tackle counts of both years. The evaluation of France and the lack of Irish, all seem to be pointing that defensive rugby has the advantage over to possession based rugby at the moment, surprise, surprise. Interesting how Ireland play this esp as we are decent at the breakdown and what seem to be more of an advantage towards the breakdown with the current law interruption.

Not surprising really. England are perfectly happy in defense and will feed off opposition mistakes. When your D is as well-drilled as theirs it's actually quite a conservative approach. NZ/Crusaders used to play a similar enough game, particularly with Wayne Smith whose teams were always at their best off turnover ball. Total opposite to Joe Schmidt's possession-based game which has kind of fallen out of favour.

If flametop is not happy with how we play he should watch England play, they play a bit like Sarries now kick everything inside their own half and if nothing happens within a couple of phases they kick the ball. They bully teams with their defence which is actually offensive.

England play very smart. They've worked hard on their transition play (look at May's try against us) and they're fairly clinical with the opportunities they do have. They're way ahead of us in these areas apart from also being able to bully us up front. But they don't overplay their hand when they don't have to. The team that has fared best against them recently is France and France are probably the most different side to Ireland in the 6Ns right now in terms of how they play.