The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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danthefan
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by danthefan »

Get him!
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Mullet 2
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Mullet 2 »

Less games with fewer sides means handing a further advantage to English and French clubs who will always have youngsters blooded due to weight of numbers.

In all seriousness the WRU just need to take across the board ownership and start investing. I mean I'd be asking at this point if they have the talent for 4 teams.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DeDoc »

Jeff the Bear wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:01 am
DOB wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:11 am I'd like to see a 10-12 team league, playing each opponent once. If each club has 5 or 6 regular test starters, those players would still only ever play 6 or 7 league games anyway, but you might as well make that 6 or 7 games be a significant portion of the league. That way, if Jimmy Punter pays his money to bring the fam to a league game, there's at least a 50/50 chance Jimmy Jr will get to see his favourite player, and they're pretty much guaranteed to see 2 or 3 test starters on the home team, and on the visitors too.
This is how I'd want to see it...however, I fear the horse has bolted on this one.

It's a chicken and egg issue now. Essentially the TV companies dictate how many games there are, and for them its all about as much content as they can get their hands on. You'd need to make a strong argument that fewer games of higher quality would get equivalent punters through the door willing to pay more per month subscriptions to offset the part of the year where there wouldn't be any games due to less games (and potentially less subscriptions)...however, you couldn't possibly make that argument when you've got Welsh crowd numbers on their arse, and thr Sweaties not far behind.
A ten/twelve team league playing once would be 8/9 games a year at home for most teams. That just isn't enough, IMO, to build any support. And either the CL teams would be fresh for Europe and start to do better than their English and French counterparts (cue toys out of the pram again by the spivs), or more likely, we'd all drift off to some sort of irrelevance in Europe. Also if you look at the 26 or who will be in a national squad, the likelihood is that one or two of the regions/provinces are the bulk suppliers and one/two aren't impacted very much. So their business model essentially consists of a bunch of fairly idle players playing 16 games a year.
I just think that rugby economics dictates that you need 20+ club games a year, so we just have to accept that will mean top (i.e. international) players playing significantly fewer league games than squad players. You can try what the spivs did with the EDF cup etc, but neither the public nor the clubs ever really fancied it. I actually like that league goes on during internationals etc (although I'd prefer that clashes were kept to a minimum) and seeing how teams with lots of absent marquee names have to dip into their squads more to compete with those teams less disrupted. The pendulum has swung too far with Leinster for sure - racking up bonus points away from home with 3rd choice teams isn't good, but I think the answer is in the other provinces/regions doing a better job. You only have to look back a few seasons to the MOC-era in Leinster to see how fragile that development line can be. I'd argue that Leinster are probably now reaping the rewards of 2/3 years ago, where guys like Bent, Tracey, Moloney etc were getting lots of gametime, so now they're the glue that holds the show together when the internationals are away, despite being 3rd choice players. Leinster changed under Schmidt, regressed under MOC, and went back again - in terms of bringing the youngsters into training and really developing the playing style and familiarity right down to their academy.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

There was only one notable injury from the game against Cardiff Blues with Jimmy O’Brien withdrawn at half time with a back issue. O’Brien will be further assessed this week before a final decision is made on his involvement at the weekend.

Cullen also confirmed that Rory O’Loughlin hadn’t made sufficient progress from his shoulder injury last week to be considered for the Cardiff game and will again be assessed this week ahead of the trip to Wales.

There was though some positive news for Leinster centre Conor O’Brien who has stepped up his recovery from a hamstring injury and took part in on-field training last week. O’Brien will continue to be assessed as he builds his involvement over the coming weeks.

There was no update on the following players who remain unavailable for selection:

TH Prop
Tadhg Furlong (calf),
Ciarán Parker (thumb)
Vakh Abdaladze (back)

Backrow
Jack Conan (neck)
Max Deegan (knee)

Centre
Tommy O’Brien (ankle)
Garry Ringrose (jaw)
Conor O'Brien (hamstring)
Rory O'Loughlin (shoulder)

Back Three
Jordan Larmour (shoulder)
Adam Byrne (hamstring)
Jimmy O'Brien (back)
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camroc1
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by camroc1 »

That injury list alone is the reason the Leinster approach is the correct one. Run a proper u/a, sub-academy and academy system, and dip into it rather than buying in short term wildcards, when the injury list gets long, as it will in rugby.
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Winnie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Winnie »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:02 am There was only one notable injury from the game against Cardiff Blues with Jimmy O’Brien withdrawn at half time with a back issue. O’Brien will be further assessed this week before a final decision is made on his involvement at the weekend.

Cullen also confirmed that Rory O’Loughlin hadn’t made sufficient progress from his shoulder injury last week to be considered for the Cardiff game and will again be assessed this week ahead of the trip to Wales.

There was though some positive news for Leinster centre Conor O’Brien who has stepped up his recovery from a hamstring injury and took part in on-field training last week. O’Brien will continue to be assessed as he builds his involvement over the coming weeks.

There was no update on the following players who remain unavailable for selection:

TH Prop
Tadhg Furlong (calf),
Ciarán Parker (thumb)
Vakh Abdaladze (back)

Backrow
Jack Conan (neck)
Max Deegan (knee)

Centre
Tommy O’Brien (ankle)
Garry Ringrose (jaw)
Conor O'Brien (hamstring)
Rory O'Loughlin (shoulder)

Back Three
Jordan Larmour (shoulder)
Adam Byrne (hamstring)
Jimmy O'Brien (back)
Thats the making of a decent wee team in the treatment room
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earl the beaver
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by earl the beaver »

Team announced today?
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feckwanker
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by feckwanker »

Lads, what is up with Furlong? He's been out for an age now with a 'calf' injury? Fla 2.0?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:17 pm Lads, what is up with Furlong? He's been out for an age now with a 'calf' injury? Fla 2.0?
it was a back issue and now a calf.. which is probably all related.

I wonder if they are trying to avoid surgery on his back..
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Conspicuous
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Conspicuous »

feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:17 pm Lads, what is up with Furlong? He's been out for an age now with a 'calf' injury? Fla 2.0?
Is the calf injury not a relatively new thing ? Wasn’t it a back issue that was keeping him out long term ?
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:17 pm Lads, what is up with Furlong? He's been out for an age now with a 'calf' injury? Fla 2.0?
Yeah very worrying back and calf, just like Flannery. I always felt that Fla who was a bit of a gym bunny and needed to be as he's not naturally the largest of fellas, that that probably exacerbated some of those injuries. Although that's pure speculation.

I think the long layoff suited some players but not others. Obviously lots of lads with lots of niggles no longer there but also plenty came back and just got injured straight away. Partly maybe using the time to go large in certain areas or a relative lack of supervision or possibly just needing games and contact to keep their body at a level. I don't know.

With Furlong just keep him out as long as necessary. No rush with a guy like that. Hopefully it sorts itself out.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

Duff Paddy wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:58 am
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:58 am Well done to former Templeogue and St Mary's rfc player getting called into the Irish squad
It’s good news but it’s a real shame that Templeogue isn’t really a rugby school anymore
Yep Mal O'Kelly of course as well, it has alot to do with the principal. A load of lads used to join St Marys across the road, not sure as many are coming over anymore. I think GAA and soccer now bigger in the school.
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

On the England game, do people think Farrell saw the Sarries game where Leinster coaches selected guys to give them a lineout platform and got pummelled in the scrum; and selected for the scrum only for the lineout to fall apart?
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

Squidge had a video up about the game, holy god the Earls break was as gilt-edged a chance as you were going to get against that defence. Pretty damning that they couldn't finish that one off.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by feckwanker »

hermie wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:53 pm Squidge had a video up about the game, holy god the Earls break was as gilt-edged a chance as you were going to get against that defence. Pretty damning that they couldn't finish that one off.
The attacking set up after that breakdown was awful. Wtf was Keenan doing in there?
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Jim Lahey
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Jim Lahey »

earl the beaver wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:57 am Team announced today?
Its been on Wednesday for Saturday games recently but might be tomorrow for a Sunday game.

Plus I haven’t seen the media put out their probable teams yet.
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:56 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:53 pm Squidge had a video up about the game, holy god the Earls break was as gilt-edged a chance as you were going to get against that defence. Pretty damning that they couldn't finish that one off.
The attacking set up after that breakdown was awful. Wtf was Keenan doing in there?
A pod of just Kelleher & Keenan, neither having a notion of what the other might do :lol:

Ferg would have tried to burrow over from that range. I wouldn't have fancied Keenan to do that but he either needed to try and take it flat or ship it on. But it's clearly very damning for Catt. Those types of chances are like hen's teeth in Twickenham. Not even a hint of a clue from anyone of what to do when in behind.
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

On the flipside the pass from Earls and then the break...he was well worth his selection.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Conspicuous »

hermie wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:51 pm On the England game, do people think Farrell saw the Sarries game where Leinster coaches selected guys to give them a lineout platform and got pummelled in the scrum; and selected for the scrum only for the lineout to fall apart?
There was probably a bit of that in his thinking alright . In fairness to him though there was enough operators in his starting pack to think the lineout would be competent. Roux’s inclusion to reinforce the scrum was balanced by starting POM to add another lineout option and help attack their’s. Not much you can do if your hooker shits the bed though
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

Conspicuous wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:29 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:51 pm On the England game, do people think Farrell saw the Sarries game where Leinster coaches selected guys to give them a lineout platform and got pummelled in the scrum; and selected for the scrum only for the lineout to fall apart?
There was probably a bit of that in his thinking alright . In fairness to him though there was enough operators in his starting pack to think the lineout would be competent. Roux’s inclusion to reinforce the scrum was balanced by starting POM to add another lineout option and help attack their’s. Not much you can do if your hooker shits the bed though
True Doris and POM are miles better than Billy V and Underhill in the lineout. But clearly the hooker and lineout caller are the most important pieces of the puzzle.
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Conspicuous
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Conspicuous »

hermie wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:33 pm
Conspicuous wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:29 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:51 pm On the England game, do people think Farrell saw the Sarries game where Leinster coaches selected guys to give them a lineout platform and got pummelled in the scrum; and selected for the scrum only for the lineout to fall apart?
There was probably a bit of that in his thinking alright . In fairness to him though there was enough operators in his starting pack to think the lineout would be competent. Roux’s inclusion to reinforce the scrum was balanced by starting POM to add another lineout option and help attack their’s. Not much you can do if your hooker shits the bed though
True Doris and POM are miles better than Billy V and Underhill in the lineout. But clearly the hooker and lineout caller are the most important pieces of the puzzle.
True, and the lineout would have functioned better with Herring and Henderson. He backed Kelleher to keep his nerve and Ryan to deliver as captain and run the lineout. Neither exactly passed with flying colours unfortunately but they’re young and I’d rather they tried and failed in their roles now than further down the line in more important matches .
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Shane Horgan hugely critical of irish coaching staff on 2nd captains. Said they should grasp the nettle with Farrell and move on.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

Conspicuous wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:45 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:33 pm
Conspicuous wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:29 pm
hermie wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:51 pm On the England game, do people think Farrell saw the Sarries game where Leinster coaches selected guys to give them a lineout platform and got pummelled in the scrum; and selected for the scrum only for the lineout to fall apart?
There was probably a bit of that in his thinking alright . In fairness to him though there was enough operators in his starting pack to think the lineout would be competent. Roux’s inclusion to reinforce the scrum was balanced by starting POM to add another lineout option and help attack their’s. Not much you can do if your hooker shits the bed though
True Doris and POM are miles better than Billy V and Underhill in the lineout. But clearly the hooker and lineout caller are the most important pieces of the puzzle.
True, and the lineout would have functioned better with Herring and Henderson. He backed Kelleher to keep his nerve and Ryan to deliver as captain and run the lineout. Neither exactly passed with flying colours unfortunately but they’re young and I’d rather they tried and failed in their roles now than further down the line in more important matches .
Completely agree with all of that. I'm more just wondering if he over-emphasised the scrum kind of unnecessarily. A lot of work has gone on in the interim between the players, McBryde, Forgarty etc. Plus Vincent Koch doesn't play for England. The fact that Roux had gone so well I suppose complicated things. Why not go for the powerful TH lock who's also in good form?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by feckwanker »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:59 pm Shane Horgan hugely critical of irish coaching staff on 2nd captains. Said they should grasp the nettle with Farrell and move on.
The IRFU have no money.
And even if they did - who'd they replace him with? Who is available?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:14 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:59 pm Shane Horgan hugely critical of irish coaching staff on 2nd captains. Said they should grasp the nettle with Farrell and move on.
The IRFU have no money.
And even if they did - who'd they replace him with? Who is available?
he acknowledged as much but obviously doesn't rate farrell.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

interesting to see Jamie Osborne training with leinster seniors again.. he is exactly what leinster need more of coming through system, tall(6'3), athletic outside back(wing/fullback) from non-school background(naas rfc).

Aaron O'Sullivan also pictured training with leinster for 1st time afaik.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by earl the beaver »

Ryan captain again this weekend.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Ryan absolves Ronan Kelleher of that lost lineout before the Jonny May try. Says the throw was perfect but the lift and jump was 2 feet further forward than it was supposed to be
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Willie Falloon »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:59 pm Shane Horgan hugely critical of irish coaching staff on 2nd captains. Said they should grasp the nettle with Farrell and move on.
Who are they?

On Kelleher - He isn't ready to start against the best teams like France/NZ/England. He might be this time next year, but Farrell would be better served starting Herring against those big packs and then bringing on Kelleher after 50minutes. He is clearly talented but inexperienced and in such a critical position.

I wouldn't be certain he'll be the long term Irish hooker (10 years), there is an underage hooker coming through at Ulster who according to Jim Neilly, on Radio Ulster, is so highly regarded by the Ulster coaching staff that he was in line to start the early pro 14 games this season, but has been out injured. Best youngster coming through since Henderson by Willie Andersons reckoning and the reason why John McKee was advised by Ulster to move positions.

Lets hope he isn't a sicknote. :thumbup:
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Willie Falloon »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:15 pm
feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:14 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:59 pm Shane Horgan hugely critical of irish coaching staff on 2nd captains. Said they should grasp the nettle with Farrell and move on.
The IRFU have no money.
And even if they did - who'd they replace him with? Who is available?
he acknowledged as much but obviously doesn't rate farrell.
It has to be an Irish coach next.

Only 2 with the pedigree is Mark McCall (frontrunner for me) or Leo Cullen. Long term I think Dan McFarland, ROG or even Nigel Carolan could be options.
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Mullet 2
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Mullet 2 »

I say we give that cheating fúcker McCall first shot
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feckwanker
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by feckwanker »

Mullet 2 wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:19 pm I say we give that cheating fúcker McCall first shot
Would he even take it? Was there not bad blood between him and the IRFU?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by feckwanker »

Willie Falloon wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:07 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:59 pm Shane Horgan hugely critical of irish coaching staff on 2nd captains. Said they should grasp the nettle with Farrell and move on.
Who are they?

On Kelleher - He isn't ready to start against the best teams like France/NZ/England. He might be this time next year, but Farrell would be better served starting Herring against those big packs and then bringing on Kelleher after 50minutes. He is clearly talented but inexperienced and in such a critical position.

I wouldn't be certain he'll be the long term Irish hooker (10 years), there is an underage hooker coming through at Ulster who according to Jim Neilly, on Radio Ulster, is so highly regarded by the Ulster coaching staff that he was in line to start the early pro 14 games this season, but has been out injured. Best youngster coming through since Henderson by Willie Andersons reckoning and the reason why John McKee was advised by Ulster to move positions.

Lets hope he isn't another over-hyped Ulster player like McBurney. :thumbup:
Fixed
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Willie Falloon
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Willie Falloon »

Mullet 2 wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:19 pm I say we give that cheating fúcker McCall first shot
Did he negotiate the players contracts Surely it was down to the CEO or chairman to do those type of things in modern day rugby?

Whoever wrote this article is correct.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/mark-mccall-201023
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Willie Falloon wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:07 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:59 pm Shane Horgan hugely critical of irish coaching staff on 2nd captains. Said they should grasp the nettle with Farrell and move on.
Who are they?

On Kelleher - He isn't ready to start against the best teams like France/NZ/England. He might be this time next year, but Farrell would be better served starting Herring against those big packs and then bringing on Kelleher after 50minutes. He is clearly talented but inexperienced and in such a critical position.

I wouldn't be certain he'll be the long term Irish hooker (10 years), there is an underage hooker coming through at Ulster who according to Jim Neilly, on Radio Ulster, is so highly regarded by the Ulster coaching staff that he was in line to start the early pro 14 games this season, but has been out injured. Best youngster coming through since Henderson by Willie Andersons reckoning and the reason why John McKee was advised by Ulster to move positions.

Lets hope he isn't a sicknote. :thumbup:
Tom Stewart.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Willie Falloon »

feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:24 pm
Willie Falloon wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:07 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:59 pm Shane Horgan hugely critical of irish coaching staff on 2nd captains. Said they should grasp the nettle with Farrell and move on.
Who are they?

On Kelleher - He isn't ready to start against the best teams like France/NZ/England. He might be this time next year, but Farrell would be better served starting Herring against those big packs and then bringing on Kelleher after 50minutes. He is clearly talented but inexperienced and in such a critical position.

I wouldn't be certain he'll be the long term Irish hooker (10 years), there is an underage hooker coming through at Ulster who according to Jim Neilly, on Radio Ulster, is so highly regarded by the Ulster coaching staff that he was in line to start the early pro 14 games this season, but has been out injured. Best youngster coming through since Henderson by Willie Andersons reckoning and the reason why John McKee was advised by Ulster to move positions.

Lets hope he isn't another over-hyped Ulster player like McBurney. :thumbup:
Fixed
McBurney is a talented player. An absolute nutjob though and a little bit rough or dirty or a liability for modern day rugby. He will mature though.

Andrew Trimble said on the guiness podcast (English one), that when the u20s trained with Ireland in 2016, Sexton mouthed off at the u20 forward & McBurney pulled Sextons shirt over his face and punched him :shock: :|
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Mullet 2 »

feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:23 pm
Mullet 2 wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:19 pm I say we give that cheating fúcker McCall first shot
Would he even take it? Was there not bad blood between him and the IRFU?

Nordies are quick to forgive and forget
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Mullet 2
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Mullet 2 »

Willie Falloon wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:24 pm
Mullet 2 wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:19 pm I say we give that cheating fúcker McCall first shot
Did he negotiate the players contracts Surely it was down to the CEO or chairman to do those type of things in modern day rugby?

Whoever wrote this article is correct.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/mark-mccall-201023
He was very stupid or up to his neck.

Personally I hope its the latter if he is going to coach us. Enough nice guys.
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Jim Lahey
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Jim Lahey »

The last proper gobby, aggressive hooker we had was Flannery. And his darts were excellent.

McBurney may need to up his game massively in that department just to remain on the subs bench for a Pro 14 game against Zebre during an international break if Stewart and McKee are any use.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DiscoHips D'Arcy »

Mcburney simply isnt that good or hasnt been as yet. Definitely not worth the hassle he creates and John Andrew has been consistently good albeit against inferior opposition this season.

Stewart looked excellent for the U20s last season. Had a lovely range of skills whilst being solid in the lineout. I would have hoped to see him for ulster already but if hes injured that'll explain it. Mcburney will need to up his game to stay in the conversation
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