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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:09 am 
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I was listening to a news clip about this story this morning and got completely lost. Apparently JK Rowling tweeted something along the lines of 'People who Menstruate' are also called 'women'. This did not go down well and she is now public enemy number one.

The person on the TV was trying to say that she was being mean to men who call themselves women (I think). JK Rowling has now come out to say she was abused by men in the past, hence her desire to create safe spaces for women (people who menstruate?) where men dressed as women can't go. This has also not gone down well.

Anyone else confused?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:14 am 
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Any discourse involving trans rights is completely devoid of nuance and full of emotion.

There's an unpleasant "debate" on whether it's ok to differentiate between trans women and people born as women (people who menstruate).

Personally I have no issue with full rights being extended to trans women and them being considered entirely as women in society, but it's daft to completely discount basic biology in certain circumstances. There are some fundamental differences that can't be changed by modern medicine.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:15 am 
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She doesn’t do herself any favours when she flounders into the trans debate. Poorly chosen language which, given she’s an author, is pretty bad.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:19 am 
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I'm not touching this with a barge pole, I know a couple of trans women and thought I sort of understand where some of the arguments lay, then managed to inadvertently massively offend one of them. Still haven't a clue why.

Apparently if you want to see the full madness and anger around the issue, you should have a look at graham linehan's Twitter account


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:20 am 
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Rule 1.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:21 am 
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I think the bigger question is why is one of the most successful authors of all time weighing into the trans debate and then leaving her own dirty laundry there?

I mean FFS, you write books for young adults, why do you need to throw your 2 cents into that cesspit of a debate?

Society’s biggest, non-life threatening issue right now is people looking for fights on social media (because they are either addicted to being a SJW or are on furlough and have nothing better to do), and these celebrities are just fuelling that bonfire every. single. day.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:21 am 
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Biffer29 wrote:
She doesn’t do herself any favours when she flounders into the trans debate. Poorly chosen language which, given she’s an author, is pretty bad.


It's not like the HP books are particularly well written from that perspective and I don't think she's got an editor make her draft and re-draft her tweets on ths subject.

She's got 'fudge you' money, though, so she can carry on until Twitter delete her.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:23 am 
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Muttonbirds wrote:
Rule 1.


Certainly

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:29 am 
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There are men out there who identify as women and there are men out there who fetishise the idea of being a woman. My understanding is that the former are reasonable and understand that unless (and even) if they have a sex change they are still not biologically women. The latter go about calling lesbians transphobic if they don't want to have sex with a man identifying as a woman who has a penis. They also have a fanatic movement going to shame anyone who won't treat them exactly the same as biological women, even though there are clearly areas where they will have to be treated differently (mostly medical but again I don't think women should be forced to accept women with penises as the exact same, especially with self identification).

But the worst part is the gender reassignment for children and the lies, misinformation surrounding that.

It's a really sad part of current society where people looking to be offended and sick individuals are creating a situation that didn't need to be created and IMO it's harming the reasonable transgender people who are being lumped in with the crazy.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:30 am 
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There is no rational thought on this subject.

People born as one sex that want to change refuse to accept that biologically they can never be exactly the same as one born naturally as one sex.

I look forward to strong women (south park) dominating womens sports.

That said people should be allowed be whoever the heck they want.


Last edited by nardol on Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:31 am 
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Jim Lahey wrote:
I think the bigger question is why is one of the most successful authors of all time weighing into the trans debate and then leaving her own dirty laundry there?

I mean FFS, you write books for young adults, why do you need to throw your 2 cents into that cesspit of a debate?

Society’s biggest, non-life threatening issue right now is people looking for fights on social media (because they are either addicted to being a SJW or are on furlough and have nothing better to do), and these celebrities are just fuelling that bonfire every. single. day.

Why shouldn't she enter the debate? You're right about SJWs or Right wing loons being a huge issue, so they should be challenged.

She posted an update here
https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:33 am 
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Jim Lahey wrote:
I think the bigger question is why is one of the most successful authors of all time weighing into the trans debate and then leaving her own dirty laundry there?

I mean FFS, you write books for young adults, why do you need to throw your 2 cents into that cesspit of a debate?

Society’s biggest, non-life threatening issue right now is people looking for fights on social media (because they are either addicted to being a SJW or are on furlough and have nothing better to do), and these celebrities are just fuelling that bonfire every. single. day.


Because there is a paoedephle link to the fanatical part of the movement and she doesn't want to just sit on the sidelines. What's interesting is that she's being doing this for a while but is only now being reported in the media. A lot of these issues need a wider discourse because most people, reasonably, accept that genuine transgender people derseve to, for all intents and purposes, be treated like whatever gender/sex they identify as but it's been hijacked by, at best, assholes and at worst paedophiles.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:35 am 
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Posted this elsehwre but here is a good primer on all this nonsense:

https://excelpope.wordpress.com/2020/06 ... luminates/

Quote:
The author Philip Pullman doesn’t understand the argument currently centred around author J K Rowling. We know this, because he tells us, using words (considered, since ancient times, to be the mark of an author)

From the 538 replies (at time of writing) we can assume that any expectations he had that people wouldn’t shout at him again have now been so dashed that they could form 50% of Morse-code War and Peace.

I empathise with him completely. Up until about 4 years ago my knowledge of this culture war was:

US Republicans kept trying to pass laws saying you couldn’t use bathrooms intended for the opposite sex. This was bad, because Republicans.
The shop that used to exist in Newcastle, Transformations, used to have a sign in its window saying that it was Newcastle’s No. 1 TV specialist, but never had any televisions on display in the window. Just heavy velvet curtains, that were always tightly drawn.
Then I stumbled upon a word I didn’t know. Looking up what it meant took me down a rabbit-hole of other words I didn’t know, all the while assuming I was following some elaborate joke. The word was “cissexism” and it turns out to be so not a joke that people are prepared to fling about death-threats over it, which really isn’t funny.

Not wanting Mr Pullman to have to find out things the hard way (i.e. by clicking on links in Google) I hereby offer a brief primer. A sort of, “Previously, on Gender Wars”, if you will.

Let’s start at the beginning. Humans have two sexes, male and female. Obviously there is a huge amount of biological complexity here, which makes it easy to obfuscate the issue, but fundamentally, if you want a baby you need one person from each sex. You can talk about gametes, chromosomes and DNA until the cows come home, but if you start with two people from the same sex you will still never get a baby (although you may get insightful analysis of a recent football match).

You don’t, however, need to add a hypothetical third sex. Male + female is all that’s required, unless you count wine and smooth talking as sexes.

In 99%+ of cases the differences between the male and female sex can be elucidated by anybody over the age of about 6, with relatively little training [Observations of primary sexual characteristics in a sample of games of Doctors & Nurses, My mate Billy et al, The Journal of Playground Activity Vol. LXIX]. However, a very small number of people are born with disorders of sexual development, which makes unambiguous assignment to one sex or the other more difficult. People born with these disorders are still, however, members of one of the two sexes. They do not belong to both sexes, they do not form a new sex, they are not “intersex”, which is a derogatory term now reserved almost entirely for people who care so much about intersex people’s right to be heard that they won’t listen to their request to stop calling them “intersex”.

That’s the end of the easy bit, and if you think that everything we’ve covered so far is straightforward and uncontroversial then several thousand Twitter users, with pre-pubescent Anime girls as profile pictures and bios full of hashtags have a lovely surprise for you.

Now we get to gender. Gender was invented as a term to stop idiots answering “Yes please” to the sex question on forms. Since then it has evolved into a term to describe the differing roles society imposes on the sexes; boys play with toy cars, girls with dolls, men wrestle bears, women do the ironing, etc.

Gender is a social construct, a term which is often used as a synonym for “bad”, but pretty much everything beyond eating, shitting and breathing is a social construct. Not eating babies is a social construct, not shitting your pants is a social construct, pants themselves are a social construct, etc. It’s just a term for something that we could change, either through a specific effort or through the shifting tides of what’s fashionable.

Gender roles have changed hugely in the last century, from trivial things, like women being allowed to vote, right through to that time I ironed my own shirt. We’ve slowly moved away from there being men-things (power, education, etc.) and women-things (needle-work, childcare, etc) while retaining the social construct that men=male and women=female.

The people who would once have been the never-seen customers of Tranformations have come out from behind the velvet curtain and said that they not only want to dress as women, but been seen and treated by society as such. There has been a great deal of insistence that this social treatment extends to changing rooms, bathrooms, women-only short-lists, being lesbian, etc. Women who opposed this, on the grounds of men’s treatment of women having been pretty f**king shabby for the previous 10,000 years, have found themselves vilified for not being inclusive and caring.

This is a like a great white shark swimming up and asking for a bite of your ice-cream, and your concerns that you might lose a chunk of your arm in the process being reframed as you being too selfish to share your ’99.

Roughly, though, we end up with five genders; boring, old-fashioned men and women, transwomen, transmen and non-binary (who see themselves as neither men or women). There are many possible variations on those basic 5, and people will variously tell you there are 27 genders, or 100 genders, or an infinite number of genders, but at a certain point the genders start encroaching on the territory of sexuality or what we used to call personality, in the days when we thought that was what made a person interesting and not that it takes them 3 hours to explain their gender.

Now we’re at the stage where we’re encountering three major, intertwined, problems.

The first is that, having expanded the number of genders to 5+, those who strongly support gender ideology are trying to collapse it back down to three; men, women and non-binary. Their slogan, “Trans women are women”, couldn’t be more explicit in this.

And it was in use before 2016, whatever Christine Burns MBE says
This has led to the situation where if you refer to “men” everyone knows you mean men, if you refer to “transwomen” then every knows you mean transwomen and if you refer to “women” then thousands of people decide you’re an exclusionary bigot and try to get you sacked. Doubly so if you try to use terms like “biological woman” or “natal woman”. The approved term is “cis woman”, which suffers only slightly from no-one liking it, hardly anybody understanding what it means, and some transwomen adopting it for themselves anyway.

Secondly, the gender ideology is, fittingly, rather fluid. It’s new and quite a lot of it is being made up as people go along. It’s not an exaggeration to say that half the movement don’t agree with the other half.


What they all agree on, though, is that they will unite against anybody deemed to be a ‘TERF’ (a ‘Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist’, normally pronounced to rhyme with ‘ditch’). This makes any sort of compromise very difficult, because as soon as there’s any sign of agreement between the less angry elements it’s likely to be derided by one of the many ideological extremists, who will rephrase the discussion through the prism of their own imagination and denounce one or both parties. It’s like a Catholic and a Protestant trying to organise their wedding, but they have to agree every detail with Ian Paisley.

Finally (and where I’ll end, I promise), outside of technical grammatical use and feminist discourse, gender and sex have been used interchangeably in language and in law. Ten years ago the concept of a male woman or a female man would have been nonsensical.


Even the Gender Recognition Act is unclear on whether it’s talking about sex or gender.

gra language

Even the term ‘transwoman’ is unclear. Polls consistently show support for transwomen being allowed to use female facilities (because Republicans) but then stop doing so sharply when it’s explained that the transwoman umbrella extends over men who’ve had no surgery, taken no drugs, haven’t even (in some cases) shaved their beards off.

Meanwhile, the definition of woman is slowly being boiled down to “A woman is a woman who says they are a woman” and when J K Rowling tweets “Sex is real” thousands of people read “I want gender non-conforming children to suffer and die”, apparently not even thinking that’s maybe a bit out of character.

This is a confusing battle, fought with confusing and confused words, trying to achieve confused objectives, with confusion deliberately being used as a weapon.

I do hope that helps enlighten Mr Pullman, and I wish him the best next time he dips a toe into this fight.


Last edited by tc27 on Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:36 am 
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Goes to show, you can spend years pandering to the lunatic elements of Twitter but one incident of wrong think and the fickle mob will turn on you in a heartbeat.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:36 am 
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I think most people's view is that you should be able to live your life how you want, but if you think you are sharing a changing room with my daughter then you are sorely mistaken.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:38 am 
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New guy wrote:
Goes to show, you can spend years pandering to the lunatic elements of Twitter but one incident of wrong think and the fickle mob will turn on you in a heartbeat.

She's done this a few times previously


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:39 am 
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mdaclarke wrote:
I think most people's view is that you should be able to live your life how you want, but if you think you are sharing a changing room with my daughter then you are sorely mistaken.


You might think this reasonable - but that view makes trans-phobic TERF apparantly.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:39 am 
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mdaclarke wrote:
I think most people's view is that you should be able to live your life how you want, but if you think you are sharing a changing room with my daughter then you are sorely mistaken.

You need to think that through a bit more


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:39 am 
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Nuance. Gone. Only positive v negative (volts). Left v right. We have lost the middle ground and the ability to express and hear the other side. If you disagree you are evil and against us. Welcome to 2020.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:41 am 
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Clogs wrote:
Nuance. Gone. Only positive v negative (volts). Left v right. We have lost the middle ground and the ability to express and hear the other side. If you disagree you are evil and against us. Welcome to 2020.


Is it not more that the middle tend to watch the edges flinging shit and resolve to keep their heads down 'til polling day?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:42 am 
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mdaclarke wrote:
I think most people's view is that you should be able to live your life how you want, but if you think you are sharing a changing room with my daughter then you are sorely mistaken.


Short answer, agree.

Longer answer, if you could 100% guarantee me that the person was genuine then I would be OK with it. From their pov it's cruel asking them to change in the mens. The problem is we have gone too far towards acceptance and have allowed perverts hijack the situation. We have self identification in Ireland. We currently have a man in a women's prison who was convicted of sexual assault against women. He changed his gender before the trial so he was tried as a woman.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:43 am 
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It’s all basically an argument over definitions. It would be simpler if we were humans with the pronoun it, and then are further differentiated into humans that menstruate, humans with penises, humans with vaginas etc. Essential to this is more cubicle toilets, and urinals are for any human that wants to use them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:44 am 
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Jim Lahey wrote:
I think the bigger question is why is one of the most successful authors of all time weighing into the trans debate and then leaving her own dirty laundry there?

I mean FFS, you write books for young adults, why do you need to throw your 2 cents into that cesspit of a debate?

Society’s biggest, non-life threatening issue right now is people looking for fights on social media (because they are either addicted to being a SJW or are on furlough and have nothing better to do), and these celebrities are just fuelling that bonfire every. single. day.


She has thrown her opinion into loads of things, this is just controversial as woke twitter disagree on this.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:46 am 
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de_Selby wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
I think the bigger question is why is one of the most successful authors of all time weighing into the trans debate and then leaving her own dirty laundry there?

I mean FFS, you write books for young adults, why do you need to throw your 2 cents into that cesspit of a debate?

Society’s biggest, non-life threatening issue right now is people looking for fights on social media (because they are either addicted to being a SJW or are on furlough and have nothing better to do), and these celebrities are just fuelling that bonfire every. single. day.

Why shouldn't she enter the debate? You're right about SJWs or Right wing loons being a huge issue, so they should be challenged.

She posted an update here
https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/


Have to disagree with challenging them.
They are entitled to their view, no matter how out there it is. The problem with social media is this perception that there is a right and wrong perspective, and everyone with the ‘wrong’ view must be hounded in public.
By arguing with these loons you are just giving them oxygen and publicity. If someone has a ludicrous opinion on a controversial topic, why not try respectfully ignoring them instead of trying to impress people, or change the aggressor’s opinion by making a stand?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:46 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
Any discourse involving trans rights is completely devoid of nuance and full of emotion.

There's an unpleasant "debate" on whether it's ok to differentiate between trans women and people born as women (people who menstruate).

Personally I have no issue with full rights being extended to trans women and them being considered entirely as women in society, but it's daft to completely discount basic biology in certain circumstances. There are some fundamental differences that can't be changed by modern medicine.

So a trans commits murder. To which prison should it be sent? Holloway or Wandsworth. Good luck in either, BTW.

A former male rapist serves his time and goes tran. Later claims to be abused by men (possible in Wandsworth) and wants admission to a woman's refuge. OK?

"full rights" and "except in certain circumstances" is unworkable in this climate where shrieking attention seekers jump for every perceived slight in pursuit of their neediness.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:48 am 
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Gwenno wrote:
It’s all basically an argument over definitions. It would be simpler if we were humans with the pronoun it, and then are further differentiated into humans that menstruate, humans with penises, humans with vaginas etc. Essential to this is more cubicle toilets, and urinals are for any human that wants to use them.


Indeed. Biggest issue I have with this is with kids. Oh, you like dresses and you're a boy? You must be trans. You have short hair and are a girl? Tomboy. You're a boy and don't like sports? Weird. And so on. Which leads to a huge amount of confusion and people are trying to simplify it by changing the child's gender instead of preaching that we all come in different shapes and sizes. No child should be coerced against medical and parental opinion into a sex change yet that's exactly what's happening currently and if you oppose it, you're transphobic.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:49 am 
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Gwenno wrote:
It’s all basically an argument over definitions. It would be simpler if we were humans with the pronoun it, and then are further differentiated into humans that menstruate, humans with penises, humans with vaginas etc. Essential to this is more cubicle toilets, and urinals are for any human that wants to use them.


I mean this works only if you think there are no reasons some areas or activities are segregated by sex other than old fashioned stuffiness or something.

If you think there might be other reasons for these areas to be segregated then this falls apart pretty quickly.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:49 am 
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Jim Lahey wrote:
de_Selby wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
I think the bigger question is why is one of the most successful authors of all time weighing into the trans debate and then leaving her own dirty laundry there?

I mean FFS, you write books for young adults, why do you need to throw your 2 cents into that cesspit of a debate?

Society’s biggest, non-life threatening issue right now is people looking for fights on social media (because they are either addicted to being a SJW or are on furlough and have nothing better to do), and these celebrities are just fuelling that bonfire every. single. day.

Why shouldn't she enter the debate? You're right about SJWs or Right wing loons being a huge issue, so they should be challenged.

She posted an update here
https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/


Have to disagree with challenging them.
They are entitled to their view, no matter how out there it is. The problem with social media is this perception that there is a right and wrong perspective, and everyone with the ‘wrong’ view must be hounded in public.
By arguing with these loons you are just giving them oxygen and publicity. If someone has a ludicrous opinion on a controversial topic, why not try respectfully ignoring them instead of trying to impress people, or change the aggressor’s opinion by making a stand?


I think you must have missed the part where the law decided you're not allowed an opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:50 am 
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happyhooker wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:
I think most people's view is that you should be able to live your life how you want, but if you think you are sharing a changing room with my daughter then you are sorely mistaken.

You need to think that through a bit more

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:55 am 
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CM11 wrote:
Gwenno wrote:
It’s all basically an argument over definitions. It would be simpler if we were humans with the pronoun it, and then are further differentiated into humans that menstruate, humans with penises, humans with vaginas etc. Essential to this is more cubicle toilets, and urinals are for any human that wants to use them.


Indeed. Biggest issue I have with this is with kids. Oh, you like dresses and you're a boy? You must be trans. You have short hair and are a girl? Tomboy. You're a boy and don't like sports? Weird. And so on. Which leads to a huge amount of confusion and people are trying to simplify it by changing the child's gender instead of preaching that we all come in different shapes and sizes. No child should be coerced against medical and parental opinion into a sex change yet that's exactly what's happening currently and if you oppose it, you're transphobic.


This whole trans issue crossed a major line in the sand when people realised some minors were being chemically sterilised in pursuit of an identity that was by no means settled or certain. Any who's a parent would have been appalled when they first heard of it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:57 am 
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hermes-trismegistus wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Gwenno wrote:
It’s all basically an argument over definitions. It would be simpler if we were humans with the pronoun it, and then are further differentiated into humans that menstruate, humans with penises, humans with vaginas etc. Essential to this is more cubicle toilets, and urinals are for any human that wants to use them.


Indeed. Biggest issue I have with this is with kids. Oh, you like dresses and you're a boy? You must be trans. You have short hair and are a girl? Tomboy. You're a boy and don't like sports? Weird. And so on. Which leads to a huge amount of confusion and people are trying to simplify it by changing the child's gender instead of preaching that we all come in different shapes and sizes. No child should be coerced against medical and parental opinion into a sex change yet that's exactly what's happening currently and if you oppose it, you're transphobic.


This whole trans issue crossed a major line in the sand when people realised some minors were being chemically sterilised in pursuit of an identity that was by no means settled or certain. Any who's a parent would have been appalled when they first heard of it.


:thumbup:

Along with the lies and misinformation about same.

There's also issues with sexual predators and self indentification.

The sports one is nuanced but there's clearly some taking the piss.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:00 am 
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I've always felt like a handsome man trapped in an ugly man's body.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:10 am 
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terryfinch wrote:
I was listening to a news clip about this story this morning and got completely lost. Apparently JK Rowling tweeted something along the lines of 'People who Menstruate' are also called 'women'. This did not go down well and she is now public enemy number one.

The person on the TV was trying to say that she was being mean to men who call themselves women (I think). JK Rowling has now come out to say she was abused by men in the past, hence her desire to create safe spaces for women (people who menstruate?) where men dressed as women can't go. This has also not gone down well.

Anyone else confused?


I started reading an article about it and gave up half way through - I felt like I should be outraged but didn't know if it was with Rowling or those saying she's evil


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:10 am 
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BlueThunder wrote:
I've always felt like a handsome man trapped in an ugly man's body.


:lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:14 am 
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Too many perverts taking advantage of the leeway suddenly being granted.

Got a cock ? You change in that bathroom there. Yes, of course you can have a cubicle with a door so no one can see you, but no, you cant change in the girls changeroom and wander around naked in front of them. That's disgusting and perverted.

Its as simple as that IMO.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:16 am 
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Catman wrote:
Too many perverts taking advantage of the leeway suddenly being granted.

Got a cock ? You change in that bathroom there. Yes, of course you can have a cubicle with a door so no one can see you, but no, you cant change in the girls changeroom and wander around naked in front of them. That's disgusting and perverted.

Its as simple as that IMO.

To become trans, especially in the US, can take up to two years. It requires doctor diagnosis, and many other hurdles to overcome

It is not a case of deciding one day you are now trans and can just go hang out in another bathroom


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:16 am 
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I wonder if Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson will return all the money they made off Rowling and refuse any further residuals.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:17 am 
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CM11 wrote:
Gwenno wrote:
It’s all basically an argument over definitions. It would be simpler if we were humans with the pronoun it, and then are further differentiated into humans that menstruate, humans with penises, humans with vaginas etc. Essential to this is more cubicle toilets, and urinals are for any human that wants to use them.


Indeed. Biggest issue I have with this is with kids. Oh, you like dresses and you're a boy? You must be trans. You have short hair and are a girl? Tomboy. You're a boy and don't like sports? Weird. And so on. Which leads to a huge amount of confusion and people are trying to simplify it by changing the child's gender instead of preaching that we all come in different shapes and sizes. No child should be coerced against medical and parental opinion into a sex change yet that's exactly what's happening currently and if you oppose it, you're transphobic.



I would ban any "treatment" until the person is an adult


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:17 am 
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mdaclarke wrote:
I wonder if Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson will return all the money they made off Rowling and refuse any further residuals.

Jesus you are thick - did they go beg Rowling to be in the movie, or were they cast just by the producing studio like in any other film?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:17 am 
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hermes-trismegistus wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Gwenno wrote:
It’s all basically an argument over definitions. It would be simpler if we were humans with the pronoun it, and then are further differentiated into humans that menstruate, humans with penises, humans with vaginas etc. Essential to this is more cubicle toilets, and urinals are for any human that wants to use them.


Indeed. Biggest issue I have with this is with kids. Oh, you like dresses and you're a boy? You must be trans. You have short hair and are a girl? Tomboy. You're a boy and don't like sports? Weird. And so on. Which leads to a huge amount of confusion and people are trying to simplify it by changing the child's gender instead of preaching that we all come in different shapes and sizes. No child should be coerced against medical and parental opinion into a sex change yet that's exactly what's happening currently and if you oppose it, you're transphobic.


This whole trans issue crossed a major line in the sand when people realised some minors were being chemically sterilised in pursuit of an identity that was by no means settled or certain. Any who's a parent would have been appalled when they first heard of it.


When has this actually happened? it's the first I've heard of it.


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