F1 Thread

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A5D5E5
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by A5D5E5 »

AlanBengio wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:I guess I should correct myself.

Albon is an incredible driver, but others are more incredible.

As I have written before RB signed the wrong Brit
Incredible driver?
He won nothing afte karting experience, if my memory serves me well! Probably kept into Red Bull family only because of lack of drivers (but this is just my opinion). Lots of good press about him (in UK) and lack of results - if that is a benchmark for incredible drivers, then everyone is an incredible driver out there
Well, yes they are. That was his point.
The moment you will be able to put aside the "britishness" factor from your judgments, you'll see how an average driver Albon in fact is
It is nothing to do with Britishness, and I think you are entirely missing the point of my comment and Mick's before it.

You have to be an incredible driver simply to get the chance to drive in F1. They are by definition, the best of the best of the best. Albon is an incredible driver by any sensible metric. Of course, in the context of a F1 grid, he is at best, average, but that isn't the point being made.
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nardol
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by nardol »

So a merc on 3 wheels is still better than the rest...

Seems about right.
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Wendigo7
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

AlanBengio wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:I guess I should correct myself.

Albon is an incredible driver, but others are more incredible.

As I have written before RB signed the wrong Brit
Incredible driver?
He won nothing afte karting experience, if my memory serves me well! Probably kept into Red Bull family only because of lack of drivers (but this is just my opinion). Lots of good press about him (in UK) and lack of results - if that is a benchmark for incredible drivers, then everyone is an incredible driver out there
Well, yes they are. That was his point.
The moment you will be able to put aside the "britishness" factor from your judgments, you'll see how an average driver Albon in fact is
I don't think personally Albon will make it at the top level - you are probably right about that. There are a little too many gaps in his repetoire for him to last long at RB. Also we know what RB are like. Maybe Vettel is an option, who knows.

As for today - he did ok. Made a mistake at the start, cut through the field well and seemed to make those mediums last quite well in comparison to everyone bar Grosjean.

About his place in the team - even taking my british hat off (there is a bias), it's no coincidence that Ricciardo, Gasly and now Kyvat as well as Albon have struggled in that car. It's probably a combination of Max driving around problems and making the car faster than it should be, and the car is a problem. 4 good drivers, Gasly's doing well in that Alpha Tauri, Ricciardo looks really good now in the renault and Kyvat last year was pulling up trees, if they all fail, only so many times people can say pressure. Ricciardo was there before Max, it's not pressure. For me, something is up fundamentally either with the Red Bull in general, so Max is getting around it, which is a problem because they need to fix it, not ignore it and the team doesn't really know or have the know how to fix it with the way the car is built. It's probably a little bit of a driver skill issue in relation to how the car is but I do believe it's a car design problem.

Red Bull are slower than 2019 so there's no coincidence their design is flawed. Even taking off my british bias, the car doesn't look good to drive and Max driving around the issues isn't helping. Impressive for him sure, but the team isn't improving or learning anything. At least, not immediately.
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Wendigo7
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

Also - reckon Ilott and Schwartzman will be promoted from the ferrari driver academy into the Alfa team this year.

Ferrari have quite a few good young drivers coming through, they just need to develop them properly. Either that, or Prema should join F1. They'd probably be strong in F1 too considering how good they are at F2 and F3. Their F3 team is ridiculous.
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nardol
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by nardol »

Meh... The fact MV can drive a car at x speed means by definition the car has the potential to go x fast.

Its the same argument people use for LH being the best/ goat whatever... when the only competition realistically is coming from his teanm mate so superior is the merc.
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nardol
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by nardol »

Wendigo7 wrote:Also - reckon Ilott and Schwartzman will be promoted from the ferrari driver academy into the Alfa team this year.

Ferrari have quite a few good young drivers coming through, they just need to develop them properly. Either that, or Prema should join F1. They'd probably be strong in F1 too considering how good they are at F2 and F3. Their F3 team is ridiculous.
Give them a year. Dont throw them in to tje same shite ferrari engine they will be stuck with next year.

Very unusual speed trap numbers comparing vettel to leclerc.... Very unusual indeed.
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Wendigo7
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

nardol wrote:Meh... The fact MV can drive a car at x speed means by definition the car has the potential to go x fast.

Its the same argument people use for LH being the best/ goat whatever... when the only competition realistically is coming from his teanm mate so superior is the merc.
Only if you have the driving style like Max to drive round the issues. Some don't have that capacity.

Do people think Max drives like Hamilton because he doesn't. Neither drive like Button either, or Perez. Driving styles matter.
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Wendigo7
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

nardol wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:Also - reckon Ilott and Schwartzman will be promoted from the ferrari driver academy into the Alfa team this year.

Ferrari have quite a few good young drivers coming through, they just need to develop them properly. Either that, or Prema should join F1. They'd probably be strong in F1 too considering how good they are at F2 and F3. Their F3 team is ridiculous.
Give them a year. Dont throw them in to tje same shite ferrari engine they will be stuck with next year.

Very unusual speed trap numbers comparing vettel to leclerc.... Very unusual indeed.
Like Mercedes did with Russell. :o
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nardol
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by nardol »

Eh... Going to ferrari or going to merc right now.... Using the words 'like' would never cross my mind
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Wendigo7 wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:I guess I should correct myself.

Albon is an incredible driver, but others are more incredible.

As I have written before RB signed the wrong Brit
Incredible driver?
He won nothing afte karting experience, if my memory serves me well! Probably kept into Red Bull family only because of lack of drivers (but this is just my opinion). Lots of good press about him (in UK) and lack of results - if that is a benchmark for incredible drivers, then everyone is an incredible driver out there
Well, yes they are. That was his point.
The moment you will be able to put aside the "britishness" factor from your judgments, you'll see how an average driver Albon in fact is
I don't think personally Albon will make it at the top level - you are probably right about that. There are a little too many gaps in his repetoire for him to last long at RB. Also we know what RB are like. Maybe Vettel is an option, who knows.

As for today - he did ok. Made a mistake at the start, cut through the field well and seemed to make those mediums last quite well in comparison to everyone bar Grosjean.

About his place in the team - even taking my british hat off (there is a bias), it's no coincidence that Ricciardo, Gasly and now Kyvat as well as Albon have struggled in that car. It's probably a combination of Max driving around problems and making the car faster than it should be, and the car is a problem. 4 good drivers, Gasly's doing well in that Alpha Tauri, Ricciardo looks really good now in the renault and Kyvat last year was pulling up trees, if they all fail, only so many times people can say pressure. Ricciardo was there before Max, it's not pressure. For me, something is up fundamentally either with the Red Bull in general, so Max is getting around it, which is a problem because they need to fix it, not ignore it and the team doesn't really know or have the know how to fix it with the way the car is built. It's probably a little bit of a driver skill issue in relation to how the car is but I do believe it's a car design problem.

Red Bull are slower than 2019 so there's no coincidence their design is flawed. Even taking off my british bias, the car doesn't look good to drive and Max driving around the issues isn't helping. Impressive for him sure, but the team isn't improving or learning anything. At least, not immediately.

Ricciardo struggled in the RB?

:lol:
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nardol
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by nardol »

People can critique red bull driver ruthlessness but you cant ignore that of the current grid (gone down a twitter black hole and brought opinions to here)

Vettel
Verstappen
Ricciardo
Gasly
Albon
Kvyat
Sainz

are all from the RB stable. Over a third of the grid have been developed by RB. Others teams cherry pick the drivers that don't get promoted as quick as they like from TR to RB. Sainz is the prime example imo. He matched MV at TR and would have been with him instead of Kvyat had he remained.

mclaren obv a strong team looking to the future but RB have been at least getting wins every year for the last number of years... sainz gave up that chance.
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

Yes Guy I think Ricciardo at the end struggled with the red bull.

I wouldn’t worry though there is a very fast Aussie who could make it into F1 in the next couple of years so Daniel won’t be the only one ;) .
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Wendigo7 wrote:Yes Guy I think Ricciardo at the end struggled with the red bull.

I wouldn’t worry though there is a very fast Aussie who could make it into F1 in the next couple of years so Daniel won’t be the only one ;) .
Uh, righto there bloke. You’re barking up the wrong tree there.

Ricciardo finished 3rd in the championship behind two dominant Mercedes and competing with a team mate some here have already deified.

That’s struggling, apparently.

Perhaps you’ve confused reliability issues with driver skill.
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nardol
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by nardol »

I think Ricciardo is better than Hamilton just never got the car.
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terryfinch
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by terryfinch »

Wendigo7 wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:I guess I should correct myself.

Albon is an incredible driver, but others are more incredible.

As I have written before RB signed the wrong Brit
Incredible driver?
He won nothing afte karting experience, if my memory serves me well! Probably kept into Red Bull family only because of lack of drivers (but this is just my opinion). Lots of good press about him (in UK) and lack of results - if that is a benchmark for incredible drivers, then everyone is an incredible driver out there
Well, yes they are. That was his point.
The moment you will be able to put aside the "britishness" factor from your judgments, you'll see how an average driver Albon in fact is
I don't think personally Albon will make it at the top level - you are probably right about that. There are a little too many gaps in his repetoire for him to last long at RB. Also we know what RB are like. Maybe Vettel is an option, who knows.

As for today - he did ok. Made a mistake at the start, cut through the field well and seemed to make those mediums last quite well in comparison to everyone bar Grosjean.

About his place in the team - even taking my british hat off (there is a bias), it's no coincidence that Ricciardo, Gasly and now Kyvat as well as Albon have struggled in that car. It's probably a combination of Max driving around problems and making the car faster than it should be, and the car is a problem. 4 good drivers, Gasly's doing well in that Alpha Tauri, Ricciardo looks really good now in the renault and Kyvat last year was pulling up trees, if they all fail, only so many times people can say pressure. Ricciardo was there before Max, it's not pressure. For me, something is up fundamentally either with the Red Bull in general, so Max is getting around it, which is a problem because they need to fix it, not ignore it and the team doesn't really know or have the know how to fix it with the way the car is built. It's probably a little bit of a driver skill issue in relation to how the car is but I do believe it's a car design problem.

Red Bull are slower than 2019 so there's no coincidence their design is flawed. Even taking off my british bias, the car doesn't look good to drive and Max driving around the issues isn't helping. Impressive for him sure, but the team isn't improving or learning anything. At least, not immediately.
The car is designed around Max. He has a fairly unique driving approach which makes it very hard for any backup driver.
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by terryfinch »

nardol wrote:I think Ricciardo is better than Hamilton just never got the car.
:lol:
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by AlanBengio »

Hamilton rear left tyre gonna blow up if doesnt stop!
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by AlanBengio »

again very big troubles with the rear left for Hamilton
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by terryfinch »

Is Hamilton only doing one pitstop! :shock:
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by maverickmak »

Verstappen and Bottas aren't flying away from Hamilton. This could get interesting. Bottas at least may be in trouble by the end.
Last edited by maverickmak on Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by AlanBengio »

If something happens out there, Leclerc may have an unespected card to play...
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terryfinch
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by terryfinch »

These two stop races make strategy so crucial.
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by maverickmak »

If Hamilton can get Bottas, he'll be happy with the days work. Gotta just take your hat off to RB today.
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by terryfinch »

Fun race. Well done Max!
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by maverickmak »

Mercs will have to make some adjustments if they get similar conditions in the future. Verstappen had that in the bag with ease.
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by af73 »

Good on Max for understanding his car and the race situation better than the guy in the pits with the laptop.

Early on the engineer was wanting him to slow down and preserve tyres. The racing driver, wanting to win, said b*ll*x to that as the best way to beat Mercedes was to make them go at a speed they couldn't sustain but he could.

Got the lead by maximising his strengths and negating the oppositions (their ability to control the pace) and was then able to match and better anything they could counter with. Proper race craft right there.

Thought Hamilton was about to go into moaning mode suggesting Red Bull couldn't possibly be complying with minimum tyre pressure requirements. Somedays you just get beat fair and square or when everything isn't absolutely perfect in your world.
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

Anyone catch the first 6 rounds of BTCC?

3 at Donington and 3 at Brands Hatch. I haven't watched it since 1998/99 with Yvan Muller and Plato. My hero was John Cleland. Really good to be watching it again.

I don't know many of the drivers except for Ash Sutton (Sim Racing - I watch him on iracing a fair bit) and Matt Neal - 53 and still going!

Really good racing. Love the reverse grid format and watching Sutton cut through the field each race. The best racer in the field for me, although Turkington is the best driver in probably the best team, ala Scott Dixon in IndyCar. 2 weeks to Oulton Park and then end of the month Knockhill. Can't wait for it again. Much better to watch than F1 and as good if not better than F2.
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by mr bungle »

Gotta say I’ve really been enjoying F1 of late. I think two seasons of Drive to Survive gave me an insight into the drivers, teams and principals, particularly those mid tier teams battling to stay in the hunt of the front pack. The Sky coverage is fantastic. Quality commentary and the cameras/stats/data available is superb. Shame there’s no fans for a start, and there could be more overtaking/actual car on car racing, but on the whole a quality package.

Only issue for me here in NZ is timing. 1am on a Monday morning with work and kids is about the worst timing for any live sport for me. Still good catching up on the race Monday night even knowing the result. Which I never really do for any other sport outside of an AB test.

For anyone wanting quality replay streams of current race weekends (practices/qualifying/race) as well as archives, http://www.overtakefans.com is awesome.
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Norman Harvey
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by Norman Harvey »

guy smiley wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:Yes Guy I think Ricciardo at the end struggled with the red bull.

I wouldn’t worry though there is a very fast Aussie who could make it into F1 in the next couple of years so Daniel won’t be the only one ;) .
Uh, righto there bloke. You’re barking up the wrong tree there.

Ricciardo finished 3rd in the championship behind two dominant Mercedes and competing with a team mate some here have already deified.

That’s struggling, apparently.

Perhaps you’ve confused reliability issues with driver skill.
Wendigo did say "in the end". Ricciardo finished 3rd in 2016 when Max Verstappen was 18 years old. The second half of Riccardos final season he either had a dnf or finished behind Verstappen in all but one race. So not just reliability issues.
Ricciardo seems to have made the right move for his reputation if not for his podium chances.
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Sefton
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by Sefton »

So exactly how much were Ferrari cheating last year, fastest at every session one year ago to fighting to get out of Q3.
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maverickmak
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by maverickmak »

Sefton wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:29 pm So exactly how much were Ferrari cheating last year, fastest at every session one year ago to fighting to get out of Q3.
3 races in Italy this season... :uhoh:
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by nuffsaid »

maverickmak wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:20 pm
Sefton wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:29 pm So exactly how much were Ferrari cheating last year, fastest at every session one year ago to fighting to get out of Q3.
3 races in Italy this season... :uhoh:
Yeah, Monza will be totes embarrassing!
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terryfinch
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by terryfinch »

I see all teams Have now signed the new Concorde agreement for the next few seasons. How much extra will that shit* Italian outfit get? Seems ridiculous they get anything.
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maverickmak
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by maverickmak »

Ferrari utterly humiliated.
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by ScarfaceClaw »

maverickmak wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:07 pm Ferrari utterly humiliated.
That whole race was a very poor advert for the sport.
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nardol
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by nardol »

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:51 pm
maverickmak wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:07 pm Ferrari utterly humiliated.
That whole race was a very poor advert for the sport.
I for one can't wait for all these power dominated tracks coming up where merc basically decide by how much they want to win
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Norman Harvey
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by Norman Harvey »

maverickmak wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:20 pm
Sefton wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:29 pm So exactly how much were Ferrari cheating last year, fastest at every session one year ago to fighting to get out of Q3.
3 races in Italy this season... :uhoh:
Shame the Tifosi cannot be there to witness the humiliation of Ferrari first hand.
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

Ferrrari :uhoh: Genuine question to F1 followers in here - Does Ferrari score another point with the races remaining?

I also enjoyed watching Vettel fairly consistently outperform Leclerc over the weekend. Not because Leclerc isn't a talent he is, but the way Vettel's been treated, each time he comes ahead of Leclerc to me that's an F U to the management.

With regards to the race, well, I support the brit guys and Yuki Tsunoda/Callum Ilott in F2/Oscar Piastri in F3, so I've had bar Hamilton/Tsunoda on saturday in F2 I've had a crap weekend. These wheels fly off too easily. Oh and Russell is a poor starter however I'm not sure whether to blame him for his poor start yesterday. The early couple of corners from Norris going wide was directly effecting Russell who was going past Kyvat and Vettel on the first lap down the straight. He gets caught behind Norris and loses a tonne of a places as a result.

The race was only interesting for Gasly and Perez. Normal strategy post Gio crash worked and was the only thing to enjoy. Ricciardo and Norris deserve mentions too. Norris had a poor start but by the end, if a couple of extra laps happened was on course for 5th so I would take Lando's performance as a good result. Ricciardo's best weekend since leaving Red Bull bar none. He was fantastic all weekend and showed great pace. He should also be good at the remaining races too as should Renault. In a straight line, that thing is a bullet.

Penny for the thoughts of Carlos Sainz right now :lol: :lol:
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-31/ ... s/12613526

Tallem Bend applying to be an F1 circuit going forward.
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nardol
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Re: F1 Thread

Post by nardol »

Renault catching up to RB... I say RB I mean simply MV.... is actually really bad for the excitement at the front.

Ricciardo sticking within a pitstop of MV prevented Max from coming into the pits to try and undercut / pass on track Bottas with fresh rubber. They all were focused on simply preserving their tires (so not too close behind a car in front and dirty warm air that degrades the tires). Had DR been further back MV could have switched to a racing tire and tried to hunt down Bottas.
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