American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

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bimboman
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by bimboman »

I like haggis wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
bimboman wrote:The slave trader is part of history and Bristol built from that history. Of course you’d object because you’re a book burning facist slime on dog shit.
If I lived in Bristol I'd rather not walk past a statue honouring the man. You are being dishonest in equating it to book burning.

It’s more than possible to contextualise Colston in Bristol without supporting slavery.
How do you do that?

Slavery was bad but we're still going to name loads of buildings after him and have a statue?

The two things don't go together. If you're mad about a bronze figure being taken from where he was standing and thrown into the sea wait until you find about what he did to the poor souls he made his money from.

How do you contextualise history ?


F uck off.
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Margin_Walker
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Margin_Walker »

sorCrer wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:Apropos of nothing, Southport is a lovely place to live.

More on topic, have no issue at all with Colston's statue being torn down. History of Bristol or not, a statue like that doesn't have a place in a modern city imo.
Maybe they should nip up the road and destroy Colston's School?
No need to destroy it.

Local primary school changed it's name from Colston a few years ago. No reason it can't follow suit
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Anonymous 1 »

bimboman wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
bimboman wrote:The slave trader is part of history and Bristol built from that history. Of course you’d object because you’re a book burning facist slime on dog shit.
If I lived in Bristol I'd rather not walk past a statue honouring the man. You are being dishonest in equating it to book burning.

It’s more than possible to contextualise Colston in Bristol without supporting slavery.
I'm not saying I would have been out there tearing down the statue of the Tory scum but I'd be glad it's gone.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by sockwithaticket »

New guy wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:Apropos of nothing, Southport is a lovely place to live.

More on topic, have no issue at all with Colston's statue being torn down. History of Bristol or not, a statue like that doesn't have a place in a modern city imo.
There've been petitions to get it removed for ages iirc. If something like that can't get taken down by using the conventional channels I'm not going to be upset if that goal's achieved by other means.
Even if the majority of people didn't want to see it removed?
If they can't come up with a good reason why it should stay, yes. Not that I've ever seen a good argument for leaving up a statue of someone who profited from the slave trade.

Sometimes the right thing isn't the popular thing (see gun restriction legislation in Australia).
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happyhooker
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by happyhooker »

it's not even as if the statue was contempary, it was erected 150 years or so after he died
Conservative Eddie
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Conservative Eddie »

Wendigo7 wrote:I’m not fussed either way with the statues. Do they impede your every day chilling about town? Nah.

You won’t get monetary reparations in the UK. Simply wouldn’t happen. It would need to be consistent since the country began and if each region paid out from the start, say 2k yrs ago for example, every single region in the UK and every country with an old history would go bust immediately just for morality. That wouldn’t fly. Might work in a newer country.

There’s also the difficulty of timing. Germany had the issues in the 1910s and 1940s. It was taught as guilt for 50/60 years that it was a kind of shaming for what had happened. Couple of years ago they decided no more and don’t put the guilt on the kids anymore. It would then feel ridiculous to extend to the UK and that whilst the effects are still there, it varies from 20 to 300 years ago in relevance. We shouldn’t be advocating guilt for the sake of it which some people are.

We can teach pre colonial, empire and post colonial black history as a subject in schools. I’m sure there are other things we can do easily as well.
Hmm...there's a certain irony in mentioning some form of monetary compensation. Britain only managed to rid itself of slavery by financially compensating its slave owners for the loss of their "property". All 40,000 or so of them.

IIRC, the British state spent a considerably greater sum on this act of recompense - at least twice as much - than it did on famine relief in Ireland ten years later.

Now, there's an enormously instructive set of history lessons on "British values" from the 19th century. I assume they don't teach that in British schools.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by henry »

/threadIrished
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by I like haggis »

bimboman wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
bimboman wrote:The slave trader is part of history and Bristol built from that history. Of course you’d object because you’re a book burning facist slime on dog shit.
If I lived in Bristol I'd rather not walk past a statue honouring the man. You are being dishonest in equating it to book burning.

It’s more than possible to contextualise Colston in Bristol without supporting slavery.
How do you do that?

Slavery was bad but we're still going to name loads of buildings after him and have a statue?

The two things don't go together. If you're mad about a bronze figure being taken from where he was standing and thrown into the sea wait until you find about what he did to the poor souls he made his money from.

How do you contextualise history ?


F uck off.
Slavery was good (For white people) but it isn't now - context.

Why should there be a statue of a slave trader now? We all agree slavery was horrendous? Slavers therefore don't deserve to be celebrated with fancy statues?
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Conservative Eddie wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:I’m not fussed either way with the statues. Do they impede your every day chilling about town? Nah.

You won’t get monetary reparations in the UK. Simply wouldn’t happen. It would need to be consistent since the country began and if each region paid out from the start, say 2k yrs ago for example, every single region in the UK and every country with an old history would go bust immediately just for morality. That wouldn’t fly. Might work in a newer country.

There’s also the difficulty of timing. Germany had the issues in the 1910s and 1940s. It was taught as guilt for 50/60 years that it was a kind of shaming for what had happened. Couple of years ago they decided no more and don’t put the guilt on the kids anymore. It would then feel ridiculous to extend to the UK and that whilst the effects are still there, it varies from 20 to 300 years ago in relevance. We shouldn’t be advocating guilt for the sake of it which some people are.

We can teach pre colonial, empire and post colonial black history as a subject in schools. I’m sure there are other things we can do easily as well.
Hmm...there's a certain irony in mentioning some form of monetary compensation. Britain only managed to rid itself of slavery by financially compensating its slave owners for the loss of their "property". All 40,000 or so of them.

IIRC, the British state spent a considerably greater sum on this act of recompense - at least twice as much - than it did on famine relief in Ireland ten years later.

Now, there's an enormously instructive set of history lessons on "British values" from the 19th century. I assume they don't teach that in British schools.
It's pretty obvious to most who have taken even the slightest interest why they paid the compensation.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by New guy »

sockwithaticket wrote:
New guy wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:Apropos of nothing, Southport is a lovely place to live.

More on topic, have no issue at all with Colston's statue being torn down. History of Bristol or not, a statue like that doesn't have a place in a modern city imo.
There've been petitions to get it removed for ages iirc. If something like that can't get taken down by using the conventional channels I'm not going to be upset if that goal's achieved by other means.
Even if the majority of people didn't want to see it removed?
If they can't come up with a good reason why it should stay, yes. Not that I've ever seen a good argument for leaving up a statue of someone who profited from the slave trade.

Sometimes the right thing isn't the popular thing (see gun restriction legislation in Australia).
I view these things as preserving history rather than glorifying it. I enjoy seeing statues of historical figures, good and bad. I think it's important to remember them, and learn from what happened.

I'd rather see a monument put up to remember the victims of the slave trade right next to it, rather than just erasing it.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by eldanielfire »

happyhooker wrote:it's not even as if the statue was contempary, it was erected 150 years or so after he died
It's like most Confederate statues in the south of the USA, huge numbers of them were erected in the 1900's, quite a few after the 1950's. Yet people clam they are part of their old heritage.

I all for statues being taken down and place din a museum in these cases. It's important to celebrate our identity as a nation, but history is complex, people can do great things, but with bad practices that were the norm in the past.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Openside »

fatcat wrote:
Varsity Way wrote:
Spoiler: show
Image
Oh Jeez!
:lol: :lol: :lol: A farkin angel?? Do me a favour!!
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by puku »

I like haggis wrote:
Slavery was good (For white people) but it isn't now - context.

Why should there be a statue of a slave trader now? We all agree slavery was horrendous? Slavers therefore don't deserve to be celebrated with fancy statues?
I'm curious if there was an associated plaque describing Colston's deeds? It there was I can't imagine it covered his slave trading past. Best not mention that eh.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by fatcat »

Openside wrote:
fatcat wrote:
Varsity Way wrote:
Spoiler: show
Image
Oh Jeez!
:lol: :lol: :lol: A farkin angel?? Do me a favour!!
It's insane isn't it!
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

bimboman wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:
fatcat wrote:SMS scrapping The Barrel - Wales's PR fight of the century.
I don’t fancy my chances: this ‘Barrel’ character sounds like a stocky, deep-chested sort... plus I only fight Bimboclaat’s overt racism, really. His spittle-flecked hatred of brown and black skinned people will run un-checked, otherwise.
By overt racism he means criticism of white middle age kids.

SMS is flotsam.
Righto, you massive racist. I noted your two-page dummy-spitting at being outed as an Essex Maggie Blackamoor: methinks the lady doth protest too much.

What’s the matter? Worried your local boogaloo cell will warn you over bad publicity?
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by inactionman »

eldanielfire wrote:
happyhooker wrote:it's not even as if the statue was contempary, it was erected 150 years or so after he died
It's like most Confederate statues in the south of the USA, huge numbers of them were erected in the 1900's, quite a few after the 1950's. Yet people clam they are part of their old heritage.

I all for statues being taken down and place din a museum in these cases. It's important to celebrate our identity as a nation, but history is complex, people can do great things, but with bad practices that were the norm in the past.
Was it Prague or Budapest where they took all the soviet-era statues down and put them in a park on a hill around the town? I've been to both places but can't remember where it was. I think Prague replaced a soviet-era statue of Lenin looking over the city with massive metronome, which was a bit retrograde from an aesthetics perspective.

They've done similar in Sofia as well, there's a garden with a load of soviet statues.

They're quite interesting to look through, and makes so much more sense than destroying them. For better or for worse, they're a part of the history of the place.
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True Blue
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by True Blue »

Just for the record slavery wasn't "good for white people". It was good for the wealthy elite white people. Having slaves wasn't something the average shoe maker or coal miner had.
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Post by Derwyn »

Piers Morgan celebrating the statue in Bristol being removed.

Here’s the same Piers Morgan https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bCYAXyssH9M
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by New guy »

puku wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Slavery was good (For white people) but it isn't now - context.

Why should there be a statue of a slave trader now? We all agree slavery was horrendous? Slavers therefore don't deserve to be celebrated with fancy statues?
I'm curious if there was an associated plaque describing Colston's deeds? It there was I can't imagine it covered his slave trading past. Best not mention that eh.
They tried to put a plaque up talking about his links to slavery but there was a falling out over the wording of it so I dont think it ever went up.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by bimboman »

Short Man Syndrome wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:
fatcat wrote:SMS scrapping The Barrel - Wales's PR fight of the century.
I don’t fancy my chances: this ‘Barrel’ character sounds like a stocky, deep-chested sort... plus I only fight Bimboclaat’s overt racism, really. His spittle-flecked hatred of brown and black skinned people will run un-checked, otherwise.
By overt racism he means criticism of white middle age kids.

SMS is flotsam.
Righto, you massive racist. I noted your two-page dummy-spitting at being outed as an Essex Maggie Blackamoor: methinks the lady doth protest too much.

What’s the matter? Worried your local boogaloo cell will warn you over bad publicity?

Again, by outed you mean said it’d critique white middle class kids . The only person protesting to much is you. I reckon it’s clear who’s the racist.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by puku »

inactionman wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
happyhooker wrote:it's not even as if the statue was contempary, it was erected 150 years or so after he died
It's like most Confederate statues in the south of the USA, huge numbers of them were erected in the 1900's, quite a few after the 1950's. Yet people clam they are part of their old heritage.

I all for statues being taken down and place din a museum in these cases. It's important to celebrate our identity as a nation, but history is complex, people can do great things, but with bad practices that were the norm in the past.
Was it Prague or Budapest where they took all the soviet-era statues down and put them in a park on a hill around the town? I've been to both places but can't remember where it was. I think Prague replaced a soviet-era statue of Lenin looking over the city with massive metronome, which was a bit retrograde from an aesthetics perspective.

They've done similar in Sofia as well, there's a garden with a load of soviet statues.

They're quite interesting to look through, and makes so much more sense than destroying them. For better or for worse, they're a part of the history of the place.
I agree. Remove then from their place of prominence, place then in a place where perhaps they can be appreciated for their art form and give a full account of the context around the person being memorialized. eg Colston made his money trafficking in humans, but then used some of that money to better the citizens of Bristol.

Much in the way that Georgetown University near DC has come clean with its past in selling slaves and how that transaction kept this Jesuit university solvent.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by eldanielfire »

I like haggis wrote:

Slavery was good (For white people) but it isn't now - context.

Why should there be a statue of a slave trader now? We all agree slavery was horrendous? Slavers therefore don't deserve to be celebrated with fancy statues?
If we must contextualise the slavery was good for some and bad for others. Blacks in West Africa were sold as slaves tot he Arab world for centuries before he Atlantic slave trade, The Ottoman Empire took slaves from East and north Africa, Jews were slaves in Egypt, Brits and many others were salves for various nations in the times of the Roman empire. Plenty of whites benefited off slavery, but so did plenty of blacks, Arabs, Asians, mixed people, heck freed slaves sometimes went into slavery themselves. No race or people are exempt from the scar of slavery. It was sadly the norm until very recently in a historical sense. It was sadly how the world worked and a sad fact it was possibly even essential in early civilisations to exist beyond simple sustenance farming or hunter gatherers. It should remind us how far we have come and to never let anything like that occur again.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

Coming back to the thread after a few hours yesterday to find that you had multiple posts desperately trying to deny everything and cover your back - with posters subsequently accusing you of arguing with yourself - was one the funniest things I’d seen on here for ages. Just the thought of the worry, the paranoia, the desperation to try and save whatever face you think you have... hilarious!

You’ve been outed as racist several times, your homophobia has been mentioned... I have no problems laughing at your misfortunes.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by I like haggis »

eldanielfire wrote:
I like haggis wrote:

Slavery was good (For white people) but it isn't now - context.

Why should there be a statue of a slave trader now? We all agree slavery was horrendous? Slavers therefore don't deserve to be celebrated with fancy statues?
If we must contextualise the slavery was good for some and bad for others. Blacks in West Africa were sold as slaves tot he Arab world for centuries before he Atlantic slave trade, The Ottoman Empire took slaves from East and north Africa, Jews were slaves in Egypt, Brits and many others were salves for various nations in the times of the Roman empire. Plenty of whites benefited off slavery, but so did plenty of blacks, Arabs, Asians, mixed people, heck freed slaves sometimes went into slavery themselves. No race or people are exempt from the scar of slavery. It was sadly the norm until very recently in a historical sense. It was sadly how the world worked and a sad fact it was possibly even essential in early civilisations to exist beyond simple sustenance farming or hunter gatherers. It should remind us how far we have come and to never let anything like that occur again.
Fair enough but in the context of Colston, Bristol and the US/UK empire it was whites benefitting.

If the people in other parts of the world want to tear down statues of people whose claim to fame was slave trading I'd back them too.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Conservative Eddie »

And when you're done with removing and atoning for the statues of the slavers and racists, perhaps (in the interests of British-Irish relations) you could see to it to remove the one of that puritan cúnt from outside Westminster. Thanks.
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Post by Sefton »

Conservative Eddie wrote:And when you're done with removing and atoning for the statues of the slavers and racists, perhaps (in the interests of British-Irish relations) you could see to it to remove the one of that puritan cúnt from outside Westminster. Thanks.
Now, now, Eddie, let’s not fall out.
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Post by Punter15 »

Short Man Syndrome wrote:Coming back to the thread after a few hours yesterday to find that you had multiple posts desperately trying to deny everything and cover your back - with posters subsequently accusing you of arguing with yourself - was one the funniest things I’d seen on here for ages. Just the thought of the worry, the paranoia, the desperation to try and save whatever face you think you have... hilarious!

You’ve been outed as racist several times, your homophobia has been mentioned... I have no problems laughing at your misfortunes.
Mate, why are you trying to reason with her? It’s hard enough winning an argument with someone intelligent, but completely impossible to win one with an idiot. She’s really got her knickers in a bunch tonight though.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by puku »

Conservative Eddie wrote:And when you're done with removing and atoning for the statues of the slavers and racists, perhaps (in the interests of British-Irish relations) you could see to it to remove the one of that puritan cúnt from outside Westminster. Thanks.
Churchill?

:P
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by bimboman »

True Blue wrote:Just for the record slavery wasn't "good for white people". It was good for the wealthy elite white people. Having slaves wasn't something the average shoe maker or coal miner had.

Now, this is historical context.
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Post by Gavin Duffy »

inactionman wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
happyhooker wrote:it's not even as if the statue was contempary, it was erected 150 years or so after he died
It's like most Confederate statues in the south of the USA, huge numbers of them were erected in the 1900's, quite a few after the 1950's. Yet people clam they are part of their old heritage.

I all for statues being taken down and place din a museum in these cases. It's important to celebrate our identity as a nation, but history is complex, people can do great things, but with bad practices that were the norm in the past.
Was it Prague or Budapest where they took all the soviet-era statues down and put them in a park on a hill around the town? I've been to both places but can't remember where it was. I think Prague replaced a soviet-era statue of Lenin looking over the city with massive metronome, which was a bit retrograde from an aesthetics perspective.

They've done similar in Sofia as well, there's a garden with a load of soviet statues.

They're quite interesting to look through, and makes so much more sense than destroying them. For better or for worse, they're a part of the history of the place.
Budapest.
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Post by eldanielfire »

Short Man Syndrome wrote:Coming back to the thread after a few hours yesterday to find that you had multiple posts desperately trying to deny everything and cover your back - with posters subsequently accusing you of arguing with yourself - was one the funniest things I’d seen on here for ages. Just the thought of the worry, the paranoia, the desperation to try and save whatever face you think you have... hilarious!

You’ve been outed as racist several times, your homophobia has been mentioned... I have no problems laughing at your misfortunes.
Whose this directed at?
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by bimboman »

Short Man Syndrome wrote:Coming back to the thread after a few hours yesterday to find that you had multiple posts desperately trying to deny everything and cover your back - with posters subsequently accusing you of arguing with yourself - was one the funniest things I’d seen on here for ages. Just the thought of the worry, the paranoia, the desperation to try and save whatever face you think you have... hilarious!

You’ve been outed as racist several times, your homophobia has been mentioned... I have no problems laughing at your misfortunes.

I very clearly posted the white middle class kids I was apparently racist about. They didn’t dent anything they corrected your assertions.

This again is an unprovoked post with now “several times” .... the only “desperation “ seems to be yours. Either to slander me or somehow change something.

I’d quite enjoy you calling me this in person though.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by puku »

eldanielfire wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:Coming back to the thread after a few hours yesterday to find that you had multiple posts desperately trying to deny everything and cover your back - with posters subsequently accusing you of arguing with yourself - was one the funniest things I’d seen on here for ages. Just the thought of the worry, the paranoia, the desperation to try and save whatever face you think you have... hilarious!

You’ve been outed as racist several times, your homophobia has been mentioned... I have no problems laughing at your misfortunes.
Whose this directed at?
Dude, it is patently obvious after just a cursory reading of the last two pages of this thread.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Punter15 »

eldanielfire wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:Coming back to the thread after a few hours yesterday to find that you had multiple posts desperately trying to deny everything and cover your back - with posters subsequently accusing you of arguing with yourself - was one the funniest things I’d seen on here for ages. Just the thought of the worry, the paranoia, the desperation to try and save whatever face you think you have... hilarious!

You’ve been outed as racist several times, your homophobia has been mentioned... I have no problems laughing at your misfortunes.
Whose this directed at?
That little sauce pot, Bimbo
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Post by eldanielfire »

puku wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:Coming back to the thread after a few hours yesterday to find that you had multiple posts desperately trying to deny everything and cover your back - with posters subsequently accusing you of arguing with yourself - was one the funniest things I’d seen on here for ages. Just the thought of the worry, the paranoia, the desperation to try and save whatever face you think you have... hilarious!

You’ve been outed as racist several times, your homophobia has been mentioned... I have no problems laughing at your misfortunes.
Whose this directed at?
Dude, it is patently obvious after just a cursory reading of the last two pages of this thread.
I know :twisted:
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by happyhooker »

eldanielfire wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:Coming back to the thread after a few hours yesterday to find that you had multiple posts desperately trying to deny everything and cover your back - with posters subsequently accusing you of arguing with yourself - was one the funniest things I’d seen on here for ages. Just the thought of the worry, the paranoia, the desperation to try and save whatever face you think you have... hilarious!

You’ve been outed as racist several times, your homophobia has been mentioned... I have no problems laughing at your misfortunes.
Whose this directed at?
Are you actually brain dead???

Oh. It's a cunning ruse🤔
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Short Man Syndrome »

bimboman wrote:I’d quite enjoy you calling me this in person though.
I’m sorry to disappoint you but I’m not black.
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Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Derwyn »

Oh my.
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Sefton
Posts: 16353
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by Sefton »

bimboman wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:Coming back to the thread after a few hours yesterday to find that you had multiple posts desperately trying to deny everything and cover your back - with posters subsequently accusing you of arguing with yourself - was one the funniest things I’d seen on here for ages. Just the thought of the worry, the paranoia, the desperation to try and save whatever face you think you have... hilarious!

You’ve been outed as racist several times, your homophobia has been mentioned... I have no problems laughing at your misfortunes.

I very clearly posted the white middle class kids I was apparently racist about. They didn’t dent anything they corrected your assertions.

This again is an unprovoked post with now “several times” .... the only “desperation “ seems to be yours. Either to slander me or somehow change something.

I’d quite enjoy you calling me this in person though.
If I’d known you were such a hard man :lol:
bimboman
Posts: 71274
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: American Cops behaving Badly (All inclusive thread)

Post by bimboman »

Short Man Syndrome wrote:
bimboman wrote:I’d quite enjoy you calling me this in person though.
I’m sorry to disappoint you but I’m not black.

Wow.
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