Planet Rugby Forum

I like haggis wrote:

Mullet 2 wrote:

I like haggis wrote:

Mullet 2 wrote:Most of Dublin's place names still have the name of the English Landlords that built them.

We still have many statues to our Anglo Irish past and you'd be hard pressed to find older Dubs who don't miss Nelson's Pillar.

If these statues were to need to be moved to a park to put in one of De Valera or Dan Breen then I'm OK with that, not with pulling them down and throwing them in a river.

And when Colston is recovered from the harbour and in a museum I think that's a good result.

I don't believe rewarding vandalism and thuggery should ever be considered. If these people wanted it gone they should file a motion and get it passed, if they won't pass it they should elect councillors who will. If they can't get enough councillors than it isn't as popular as they think.

It should be re-erected for that reason alone.

Rewarding slave traders should be considered though? Okay.

For me transporting hundreds of thousands of slaves (and some wine and cloth) is worse than vandalism. I may be in the minority here. But each to their own.

Should we remove all traces of Vikings and Romans in our country? How far back are we allowed to go?

Islam is right about statues!

Churchcill - Bit of a racist, Bengal Famine, Black and Tans. Gone
Cromwell - Genocidal maniac, dictator and sectarian freak. Gone
Bomber Harris - Targetted Civilians. Gone
Disraeli - Instigated wars of colonial expansion. Gone
Union Jack. Flew over registered slave vessels. Gone

Or we could accept that it is up to society to teach people the light and the dark and decide that maybe from now on it should only be artists and poets on statues,

Mullet 2 wrote:I'd be far happier to see a monument to the African slave trade go up beside his statue frankly.

Sure he did this but he also did this. Type of thing.

Tbf couldn't give a toss what you're happy about.

I’ve always preferred the option of putting a complete description of the individual’s business and personal practices next to the statue so everyone seeing it has a full understanding. The statue remains in place until family members (or anyone with that name) asks for it to be removed because they are sick of being asked if they are related to “that plum”.

Tearing things down allows some of these characters to avoid the full measure of notoriety they deserve.

It would be interesting to be able to travel around the South and see some of the Confederate monuments with a comprehensive catalogue of the atrocities these individuals committed and a description of the conscious efforts then made in the 20th century to construct the Lost Cause mythology.

fatcat wrote:

I like haggis wrote:

Mullet 2 wrote:

I like haggis wrote:

Mullet 2 wrote:Most of Dublin's place names still have the name of the English Landlords that built them.

We still have many statues to our Anglo Irish past and you'd be hard pressed to find older Dubs who don't miss Nelson's Pillar.

If these statues were to need to be moved to a park to put in one of De Valera or Dan Breen then I'm OK with that, not with pulling them down and throwing them in a river.

And when Colston is recovered from the harbour and in a museum I think that's a good result.

I don't believe rewarding vandalism and thuggery should ever be considered. If these people wanted it gone they should file a motion and get it passed, if they won't pass it they should elect councillors who will. If they can't get enough councillors than it isn't as popular as they think.

It should be re-erected for that reason alone.

Rewarding slave traders should be considered though? Okay.

For me transporting hundreds of thousands of slaves (and some wine and cloth) is worse than vandalism. I may be in the minority here. But each to their own.

Should we remove all traces of Vikings and Romans in our country? How far back are we allowed to go?

If this would remove a substantial part of Yorkshire, then I'm all for it.

fatcat wrote:

Openside wrote:

fatcat wrote:

Varsity Way wrote:

Spoiler: show

Oh Jeez!

A farkin angel?? Do me a favour!!

It's insane isn't it!

Only because you don't have the empathy to understand what it means.

I don't think it's intended to show that Floyd was "an Angel", merely to suggest that he is in Heaven looking down on what is going on beneath him.

Americans seem to have lost the concept that Heaven is for essentially good people and Hell is for nasties: they tend to feel that anyone who has died is "looking down on them" from above.

Not, I hasten to add, that I believe in either Heaven or hell, or even an afterlife.

Mullet 2 wrote:Churchcill - Bit of a racist, Bengal Famine, Black and Tans. Gone
Cromwell - Genocidal maniac, dictator and sectarian freak. Gone
Bomber Harris - Targetted Civilians. Gone
Disraeli - Instigated wars of colonial expansion. Gone
Union Jack. Flew over registered slave vessels. Gone

Or we could accept that it is up to society to teach people the light and the dark and decide that maybe from now on it should only be artists and poets on statues,

Probably not Ezra Pound or TS Eliot though.

Rinkals wrote:

fatcat wrote:

Openside wrote:

fatcat wrote:

Varsity Way wrote:

Spoiler: show

Oh Jeez!

A farkin angel?? Do me a favour!!

It's insane isn't it!

Only because you don't have the empathy to understand what it means.

I don't think it's intended to show that Floyd was "an Angel", merely to suggest that he is in Heaven looking down on what is going on beneath him.

Americans seem to have lost the concept that Heaven is for essentially good people and Hell is for nasties: they tend to feel that anyone who has died is "looking down on them" from above.

Not, I hasten to add, that I believe in either Heaven or hell, or even an afterlife.

So how do you know what it means?

Anonymous. wrote:

Mullet 2 wrote:I'd be far happier to see a monument to the African slave trade go up beside his statue frankly.

Sure he did this but he also did this. Type of thing.

Tbf couldn't give a toss what you're happy about.

Is this one of the threads were you go all self righteous and pretend you're not a troll because the statue actually hurts your feelings for a change?

Go back to spouting off about the swarm and Micks you hypocrite

Its pretty feeble minded to pull down statues now because you don't like the person or what they represented. Jesus.

As for the Mayor of Bristol

fatcat wrote: Should we remove all traces of Vikings and Romans in our country? How far back are we allowed to go?

White on White violence. That's allowed; even encouraged.

How far back is it sensible to go in applying modern standards to past civilisations? Greeks and Romans?

Slavery has historically been widespread in Africa, and still continues today in some African countries.

Systems of servitude and slavery were common in parts of Africa in ancient times, as they were in much of the rest of the ancient world. When the Arab slave trade (which started in the 7th century) and Atlantic slave trade (which started in the 16th century) began, many of the pre-existing local African slave systems began supplying captives for slave markets outside Africa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

We cannot change the past. Why not concentrate on things that perhaps we can change ie our current prejudices?

OB.. wrote:How far back is it sensible to go in applying modern standards to past civilisations? Greeks and Romans?

Slavery has historically been widespread in Africa, and still continues today in some African countries.

Systems of servitude and slavery were common in parts of Africa in ancient times, as they were in much of the rest of the ancient world. When the Arab slave trade (which started in the 7th century) and Atlantic slave trade (which started in the 16th century) began, many of the pre-existing local African slave systems began supplying captives for slave markets outside Africa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

We cannot change the past. Why not concentrate on things that perhaps we can change ie our current prejudices?

Or actually do something about the current Slave Trade?

Mullet 2 wrote:Churchcill - Bit of a racist, Bengal Famine, Black and Tans. Gone
Cromwell - Genocidal maniac, dictator and sectarian freak. Gone
Bomber Harris - Targetted Civilians. Gone
Disraeli - Instigated wars of colonial expansion. Gone
Union Jack. Flew over registered slave vessels. Gone

Or we could accept that it is up to society to teach people the light and the dark and decide that maybe from now on it should only be artists and poets on statues,

I think more should be done to teach people the views of Churchill and all the colonialists we revere in statues.

Churchill got a statue for being leading one of the countries who fought to rid the world of Hitler though. Not because he built a school with some money from slave (and wine/cloth) trading.

Churchill, Nelson represent more than the colonialists they were. The empire is barely mentioned in Britain these days because it really wasn't very glorious at all.

If we want statues of slavers and colonialists in our cities I think these conversations should be had. I had no idea who Colston was before yesterday despite having seen the statue visiting friends in Bristol. Funnily enough the statue coming down did more for his history than it standing up ever did.

How far back is it sensible to go in applying modern standards to past civilisations? Greeks and Romans?

Slavery has historically been widespread in Africa, and still continues today in some African countries.

Systems of servitude and slavery were common in parts of Africa in ancient times, as they were in much of the rest of the ancient world. When the Arab slave trade (which started in the 7th century) and Atlantic slave trade (which started in the 16th century) began, many of the pre-existing local African slave systems began supplying captives for slave markets outside Africa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa

We cannot change the past. Why not concentrate on things that perhaps we can change ie our current prejudices?

fatcat wrote:

Rinkals wrote:I don't think it's intended to show that Floyd was "an Angel", merely to suggest that he is in Heaven looking down on what is going on beneath him.

Americans seem to have lost the concept that Heaven is for essentially good people and Hell is for nasties: they tend to feel that anyone who has died is "looking down on them" from above.

Not, I hasten to add, that I believe in either Heaven or hell, or even an afterlife.

So how do you know what it means?

I’m not going to simply sit here and have the work of Donkeeboy, Donkeemom, and Mandi Quintanilla belittled by a Southern African.

I’m going to go and get another espresso instead.

Is there an echo in here?

Any more statues to be torn down?

shereblue wrote:Why the hell is there no Jimmy Saville Spinal Injuries Unit.

Floppykid wrote:Any more statues to be torn down?

They'll be content now I'm sure.

Some of those building built with slave money should probably come down though

I think the English have had long enough making this thread all about them (as usual) to be honest.

Mullet 2 wrote:

Floppykid wrote:Any more statues to be torn down?

They'll be content now I'm sure.

Some of those building built with slave money should probably come down though

Can they just re erect the statue that was torn down, and let them do it again whenever the fervor comes on?

Mullet 2 wrote:

Floppykid wrote:Any more statues to be torn down?

They'll be content now I'm sure.

Some of those building built with slave money should probably come down though

No the correct thing to do is to rename the building expunging its past connection with slavery, and keep using it as before.

The British public should be ritually flogged to atone for their wicked past. All of them.

Floppykid wrote:

Mullet 2 wrote:

Floppykid wrote:Any more statues to be torn down?

They'll be content now I'm sure.

Some of those building built with slave money should probably come down though

Can they just re erect the statue that was torn down, and let them do it again whenever the fervor comes on?

They are never going to put it backup.. Expect many years of debate about who should not be on that spot..

Short Man Syndrome wrote:The British public should be ritually flogged to atone for their wicked past. All of them.

I concur. Can the Boers have first go?

Excellent. I normally have to pay extra for a good flogging

Bimboc69 wrote:

Short Man Syndrome wrote:The British public should be ritually flogged to atone for their wicked past. All of them.

The English public....

What? And let the Scots off... errrmmm.. Scot free? No, we're all in this together.

msp. wrote:

Floppykid wrote:

Mullet 2 wrote:

Floppykid wrote:Any more statues to be torn down?

They'll be content now I'm sure.

Some of those building built with slave money should probably come down though

Can they just re erect the statue that was torn down, and let them do it again whenever the fervor comes on?

They are never going to put it backup.. Expect many years of debate about who should not be on that spot..

I think people will stop caring as quickly as they started.

happyhooker wrote:Excellent. I normally have to pay extra for a good flogging

Indeed a freebie from Debbie the Doncaster Dominatrix sounds good

tabascoboy wrote:

happyhooker wrote:Excellent. I normally have to pay extra for a good flogging

Indeed a freebie from Debbie the Doncaster Dominatrix sounds good

Ummm... no. There seems to have been some sort of misunderstanding: I meant that the British public should be sold out of the back of a sprinter van at Blackbushe market, you know, to symbolically represent the evils of the slave trade.... to see how we like it, sort of thing.

AND-y wrote:I think the English have had long enough making this thread all about them (as usual) to be honest.

Seems to be mostly the irish as usual making it about the English

sorCrer wrote:

Short Man Syndrome wrote:The British public should be ritually flogged to atone for their wicked past. All of them.

I concur. Can the Boers have first go?

No, sorry. The Boers are in the next room getting bummed to death for apartheid.

Rinkals wrote:

fatcat wrote:

Openside wrote:

fatcat wrote:

Varsity Way wrote:

Spoiler: show

Oh Jeez!

A farkin angel?? Do me a favour!!

It's insane isn't it!

Only because you don't have the empathy to understand what it means.

I don't think it's intended to show that Floyd was "an Angel", merely to suggest that he is in Heaven looking down on what is going on beneath him.

Americans seem to have lost the concept that Heaven is for essentially good people and Hell is for nasties: they tend to feel that anyone who has died is "looking down on them" from above.

Not, I hasten to add, that I believe in either Heaven or hell, or even an afterlife.

What a load of WokeBollocks

Punter15 wrote:

sorCrer wrote:

Short Man Syndrome wrote:The British public should be ritually flogged to atone for their wicked past. All of them.

I concur. Can the Boers have first go?

No, sorry. The Boers are in the next room getting bummed to death for apartheid.

We should be able to pin that on the Pommies.

Rinkals wrote:

fatcat wrote:

Openside wrote:

fatcat wrote:

Varsity Way wrote:

Spoiler: show

Oh Jeez!

A farkin angel?? Do me a favour!!

It's insane isn't it!

Only because you don't have the empathy to understand what it means.

I don't think it's intended to show that Floyd was "an Angel", merely to suggest that he is in Heaven looking down on what is going on beneath him.

Americans seem to have lost the concept that Heaven is for essentially good people and Hell is for nasties: they tend to feel that anyone who has died is "looking down on them" from above.

Not, I hasten to add, that I believe in either Heaven or hell, or even an afterlife.

As an engineer those wings would not produce enough lift to get a few feet off the ground let alone to heaven.

Short Man Syndrome wrote:

tabascoboy wrote:

happyhooker wrote:Excellent. I normally have to pay extra for a good flogging

Indeed a freebie from Debbie the Doncaster Dominatrix sounds good

Ummm... no. There seems to have been some sort of misunderstanding: I meant that the British public should be sold out of the back of a sprinter van at Blackbushe market, you know, to symbolically represent the evils of the slave trade.... to see how we like it, sort of thing.

Ah, in that case let me dig out my irish and Spanish passports.

Floppykid wrote:Any more statues to be torn down?

If there are there will be trouble the Paras Old boys are already planning to guard the Cenotaph during the next BLM march. - could get messy

danny_fitz wrote:
As an engineer those wings would not produce enough lift to get a few feet off the ground let alone to heaven.

Even on a treadmill