The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

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Jim Lahey
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Jim Lahey »

How do you lads manage calorie cutting and cardio?

I’ve dropped about 5kgs in the last 4 weeks from not eating like an idiot but have dropped my running/cycling.

Keen to get back to 4 sessions a week for the mental/physical aspect but I feel flat energy-wise as I’m not eating anywhere near the same amount of carbs. My main focus is getting myself down to consistently below 95kg (currently at 97.8) but I’m struggling to balance the exercise/diet. Diet-wise I’m only eating meats, lentils/beans, eggs and veg, with a day off at the weekend when I eat whatever.

Anyone got any tips? Should I just be focusing on low-intensity runs/cycles while cutting or is HIIT better?
Nolanator
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

I don't. :thumbup:

Walk more, move more. Get your base energy expenditure up. Sure, running or other intense exercise will burn calories, but there's a practical limit to how much you can do.

If that doesn't work, you gotta restrict calories more.
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Jim Lahey
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Jim Lahey »

Nolanator wrote:I don't. :thumbup:

Walk more, move more. Get your base energy expenditure up. Sure, running or other intense exercise will burn calories, but there's a practical limit to how much you can do.

If that doesn't work, you gotta restrict calories more.
I’m on a 55 day streak of 10+k steps which I’m finding has been working great, but still keen to get out and do proper stuff. Ideally 2x 50km cycles with about 600-800m climbing each one, a slow 10km and maybe a sprint session.
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bobbity
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by bobbity »

I'd think about why you've reduced carbs to that extent and how it will impact performance. I'd suggest following Andrew Read if you're interested in carb reduction and athletic performance. He does eat pretty low carbs, but feels strongly that carbs are important to endurance athletes.

He has an older athletes facebook group, if that applies to you. Roughly 35+.

edit - https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ultra40fitness
He can be a bit of an acquired taste, but there's no arguing he knows what he's about.
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bobbity
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by bobbity »

Something to take seriously -

dpedin's post on the bottom of page 619 of the covid thread.

Sudden breathlessness during a walk after very mild illness. Pulmonary embolism, and despite two negative covid tests the doctors are considering it a post-covid complication. Unusual blood clotting is common in the seriously ill, embolisms have killed covid patients. We have no idea how common that is in those who were less seriously ill, even considered asymptomatic.

Take it seriously, if you experience any symptoms like that go straight to hospital.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

:thumbup:

Saw that post. Interesting, and worrying.
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bobbity
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by bobbity »

Image

And this is the state of the fitness professional today.

He's a covid conspiracy theorist, I've just noticed that.

edit -

Image
Last edited by bobbity on Tue May 26, 2020 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
newportblue
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by newportblue »

Jim Lahey wrote:How do you lads manage calorie cutting and cardio?

I’ve dropped about 5kgs in the last 4 weeks from not eating like an idiot but have dropped my running/cycling.

Keen to get back to 4 sessions a week for the mental/physical aspect but I feel flat energy-wise as I’m not eating anywhere near the same amount of carbs. My main focus is getting myself down to consistently below 95kg (currently at 97.8) but I’m struggling to balance the exercise/diet. Diet-wise I’m only eating meats, lentils/beans, eggs and veg, with a day off at the weekend when I eat whatever.

Anyone got any tips? Should I just be focusing on low-intensity runs/cycles while cutting or is HIIT better?
Listened to a good podcast on this the last week ( iron culture).

As Nol says I would concentrate on increasing NEAT, so how much you’re moving during the day outside the gym/exercise. Doesn’t have to be anything fancy, just walking more.

If you want to keep doing cardio, then HIT or LISS won’t have much difference overall. Choose whatever fits in with your life best and you enjoy. Consistent beats “optimal”.

Overall I’m not a big fan of meal timing importance but you could try introducing carbs pre work out.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

Hah, I was thinking of that exact podcast when I answered. :thumbup:
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

bobbity wrote:Image

And this is the state of the fitness professional today.

He's a covid conspiracy theorist, I've just noticed that.

edit -

Image
What's the story there? Mod in a community that you posted the anecdote to?
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bobbity
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by bobbity »

Yep. Whilst it's an anecdote, it has been specifically warned about by experts. I know you're not using the term in a derogatory fashion, but basically anecdote is where we are at right now. It, and the evidence of the critically ill, is about all PTs have to make assessments about how to work with those who have so far been less seriously ill.
newportblue
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by newportblue »

Nolanator wrote:He's going for 300, isn't he? I missed the log press attempt.

I believe so.

I’ve not really done much Stone lifting. I think I’ve done 60 and 80. Got 120 one off the ground about 1cm. I can’t get my head round 286 or 300 tho.

Crazy number.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

Yep, I meant anecdote I'm the positive sense. :thumbup:

Odd behaviour. The justification for removing the post is 🤦🏼‍♂️
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Womack
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Womack »

Nolanator wrote:Yep, I meant anecdote I'm the positive sense. :thumbup:

Odd behaviour. The justification for removing the post is 🤦🏼‍♂️
You wonder what he thinks the potential risks of 'fear mongering' in this scenario are.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

Running; what do when calf pain?

Last few days I've had an ache stemming from the inside of the lower portion my calf/Achilles, which extends down to the inner ankle knobble. Definitely aggravated by running.
Anyone had similar?

Obviously the simple immediate treatment is not to run, if running hurts, but I'm curious as what causes it.
Just try not to make it worse and stretch my calves a lot?
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bobbity
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by bobbity »

There's a stiffness paradox here. You need stiffness to run, it's an adaptation. You're probably also asking for mobility in the ankle as a lifter

I'd suggest trying Andrew Read's calf raise idea (yes, I follow and respect other PTs) - raise on both feet from the floor, lower on one over 3-5s. Repeat, lowering on the same foot for 30 reps. Then do the other side.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

:thumbup:

Ankle mobility is ok, but certainly nothing to write home about. I suspect it's partly aggravated by the increase in running over the last couple of months. Did 7km a few days ago, then did a fast-ish 3km the following day when I was feeling a bit beaten up.
Probably should have just gone for a walk for the fresh air rather than run, and give it a chance to chill.
Day off, then intervals yesterday, bit ouchie today.

A few weeks ago it was a bit tender after an 8km run. Seems to be the longer distances that do it.
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bobbity
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by bobbity »

Longer distances may just be a reflection of more volume if you see what I mean. Calf loading is pretty high during running, even if you're not a fancy forefoot striker.

Apropos of something, a chap reminded me the other day of a useful saying - we overestimate what we can do in a year, and underestimate what we can do in five.

Getting out there routinely without worrying regularly about how far/fast might be really useful. As a runner most of us barely register above 'beginner', and the consequences of being 'bigger' and trying to run a lot in a relatively short space of time might be quite bad.

The good runners in my gym (guys who have 'serious' park run times) are tiny and have run since they were young.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

Makes sense. I'm lugging 90kg around with no background in steady slow running before the last couple of years. Prior to that, it was rugby, which is completely different, and I've never been a natural runner anyway. My technique has come on leaps in the last two years, despite running less overall per week compared to when I was training two evenings a week and playing on the weekend.
Easy to plod from ruck to set piece to tackle and carry un-dynamically without fine-tuning how efficient you are at it.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

On an unrelated note, pistol squats are coming good. Can do them unassisted holding a 5kg weight out in front as a counter balance (and wearing lifting shoes). Loads of room for improvement with control and technique, but it's a good start.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by fonzeee »

Nolanator wrote:Sliotar into the meat under the shoulder blade. :thumbup:

Yeah, I read that post and was heavily conflicted. Jealous of being able to do BB movements, but using a women's bar? x(
Whatever about throwing the maths off, it's skinnier and would feel really odd.
It's actually the same thickness, not sure where he found it tbh!
tc27
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by tc27 »

Anyone have a good source on strength training equipment for the UK?

Sorted myself a bench and a squat rack for my garage gym and now looking for an olympic barbell and some plates but perhaps understandably everywhere is sold out!
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

Hah, good luck!
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by tc27 »

Nolanator wrote:Hah, good luck!
Yeah...might be body weight only training for a while :frown:

Feeling sorry for gym owners though.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

Can you rent equipment from a gym until they reopen?
Get some equipment for yourself in the short term, and keep them in some form of business.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Womack »

I have a spare oly bar and around 160kg of weights taking up valuable space, free for collection from SE London if you're interested - should meet the cummings test for necessary journeys. I'm a KB man these days, comrade.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Womack »

Getting out there routinely without worrying regularly about how far/fast might be really useful. As a runner most of us barely register above 'beginner', and the consequences of being 'bigger' and trying to run a lot in a relatively short space of time might be quite bad.
Or not even a lot - last month I started Andrew Read's programme for getting into running as an old fart (that I'm pretty sure you posted here once, Bobbs) which starts with 1 min light jogging and 4 mins walking for 6 and slow builds up the running volume. I was very careful to keep to a very slow, nose-breathing jog. Made it to week 3 (jog 3 mins/walk 2) and started to get an ominous dull ache in my shin which felt like a stress fracture. Have abandoned for now and will pick it up when I've lost more weight. Have lost some but still around 107 KG or so. Shame, as I was enjoying it.

Next time will take it very easy and probably double the weeks up before adding time to the jog. Something I read about stress fractures suggests that the bone is at its weakest after a couple of weeks of a new stress, which would fit with when I started to develop a problem (assuming it wasn't in my own head).
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by dinsdale »

Jim Lahey wrote:How do you lads manage calorie cutting and cardio?

I’ve dropped about 5kgs in the last 4 weeks from not eating like an idiot but have dropped my running/cycling.

Keen to get back to 4 sessions a week for the mental/physical aspect but I feel flat energy-wise as I’m not eating anywhere near the same amount of carbs. My main focus is getting myself down to consistently below 95kg (currently at 97.8) but I’m struggling to balance the exercise/diet. Diet-wise I’m only eating meats, lentils/beans, eggs and veg, with a day off at the weekend when I eat whatever.

Anyone got any tips? Should I just be focusing on low-intensity runs/cycles while cutting or is HIIT better?
If you are cycling fasted, do low intensity. Don't try high intensity fasted, it f's you up. This has been working for me, i've been on the turbotrainer almost every day. Mostly low intensity rides, a couple of interval rides and one long ride each week. I have increased my watts/heartrate somewhat doing this during the lockdown.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by bobbity »

Yep, I've had a similar experience. Seem to be very prone to it, so I don't really run now. Only 76kg these days, which is probably 10-15kg over a good runners weight at my meagre height.

The only modification I make when suggesting that program is yours - to think of "weeks" as periods of time, and the 3x runs per walk/rest ratio as a bare minimum.

The calf raises are probably an essential, I'm going to go back to doing them just in prep for going back to the very little running I do in our currently suspended mixed ability rugby sessions.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by tc27 »

Womack wrote:I have a spare oly bar and around 160kg of weights taking up valuable space, free for collection from SE London if you're interested - should meet the cummings test for necessary journeys. I'm a KB man these days, comrade.
That is a very generous offer I would be happy to take you up on. :thumbup:

Please drop me an email: dijeyig471@whowlft.com

(temp email box to avoid the spambots).
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Womack »

TC - email sent, let me know if received :thumbup:
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Womack »

bobbity wrote:Yep, I've had a similar experience. Seem to be very prone to it, so I don't really run now. Only 76kg these days, which is probably 10-15kg over a good runners weight at my meagre height.

The only modification I make when suggesting that program is yours - to think of "weeks" as periods of time, and the 3x runs per walk/rest ratio as a bare minimum.

The calf raises are probably an essential, I'm going to go back to doing them just in prep for going back to the very little running I do in our currently suspended mixed ability rugby sessions.
:thumbup: Will give those a try. I had been doing daily calf stretches as I'd also noticed tightness/soreness in the calves when I was doing the running.

In other news am doing Pavel's "Simple and Sinister", currently using a 24kg bell for the swings and 16kg for TGU. Managing an average of 5 sessions a week. It's going very well, comfortably doing one-arm swings with 24kg, whereas two-arm with 16kg felt quite challenging enough when I started. All the usual KB things people say, feeling strong for daily life without any niggles - for now...
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Nolanator »

Womack wrote:I have a spare oly bar and around 160kg of weights taking up valuable space, free for collection from SE London if you're interested - should meet the cummings test for necessary journeys. I'm a KB man these days, comrade.
Just throw a child into the car and you'll be sorted. Plus, they can hold the bar in place on the return journey.
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bobbity
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by bobbity »

Womack wrote:
:thumbup: Will give those a try. I had been doing daily calf stretches as I'd also noticed tightness/soreness in the calves when I was doing the running.

In other news am doing Pavel's "Simple and Sinister", currently using a 24kg bell for the swings and 16kg for TGU. Managing an average of 5 sessions a week. It's going very well, comfortably doing one-arm swings with 24kg, whereas two-arm with 16kg felt quite challenging enough when I started. All the usual KB things people say, feeling strong for daily life without any niggles - for now...

I think I started this thread in 2009, maybe 8. The evolution of some of us over that time has been interesting. I basically use my barbell for RDLs and occasionally floor press. I probably said some unfavourable things about KBs back then, some of which I'd stand by, but some of which were short-sighted.

I was doing single arm rack carries with a 32 the other day, reminded me why I don't touch it very often.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by tc27 »

Womack wrote:TC - email sent, let me know if received :thumbup:
Yes thankyou :thumbup: I just replied from my Gmail account.
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Joost
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Joost »

Womack wrote:I'm a KB man these days, comrade.
Aha, do I detect another devotee of the RKC/Strongfirst KB stuff?

If not, I'd thoroughly recommend Pavel Tsatsouline's articles/books/videos on KB exercises and programming (most of which can now be had for free on youtube etc) - although some of the earlier videos are Top Gun levels of accidental homoeroticism! :blush:


I've hit a bit of a plateau on my pullups (stuck at 13, target is 15) - I've been suggested to try my straight arm and flexed arm hangs for time (could hold 40 secs for each earlier; rather less than I'd have expected), so going to work on them for a week or two and see if it's a endurance/grip issue. Annoying, as the programme went from 5 to 12 reps without any issue, but getting beyond 13 has been a pain (it's only 2 more reps, why so hard :( ).
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Womack
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Womack »

tc27 wrote:
Womack wrote:TC - email sent, let me know if received :thumbup:
Yes thankyou :thumbup: I just replied from my Gmail account.
Replied :thumbup:
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Womack
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Womack »

bobbity wrote:
I think I started this thread in 2009, maybe 8. The evolution of some of us over that time has been interesting. I basically use my barbell for RDLs and occasionally floor press. I probably said some unfavourable things about KBs back then, some of which I'd stand by, but some of which were short-sighted.

I was doing single arm rack carries with a 32 the other day, reminded me why I don't touch it very often.
My view on training has totally changed but that's probably a natural consequence of getting older.

I do get a sense of a slight shift in the wider world of training, things like long slow running/cardio no longer being the dirty word it was back in say 2008 (and by way of a corollary, HIIT not always being pushed as a panacea - but tbf I may be just in an echo chamber of stuff I'm interested in as it does seem that Crossfit and other high intensity, exciting, battle-ropey things like Centr still seem to be popular). A more general belief in health as the number one priority with everything following that - so things like the heart health/left ventricle flexibility you have often posted about - I've certainly been greatly influenced by that.

From a personal perspective it's mostly a big shift in expectations. In the past I'd have dismissed KBs because of the comparatively low weights but I now know that doing single arm 'ballistic' type movements even with relatively low weights still requires strength, and it seems to be a relatively low-impact way of developing that strength. As I say, early days still so no doubt something will go wrong at some point!

I have to admit I've been trying to combine quite a high volume of low-intensity 'cardio' with the regular KB work but have had a tendency to skip the cardio - which I'm fine with tbh as I know it can be built up as an when I have something to train for - but maybe I'm kidding myself that I can progress in both areas at the same time. The main goal for me is weight loss at present anyway which is going OK, so I'm not too worried.
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Womack »

Joost wrote:
Womack wrote:I'm a KB man these days, comrade.
Aha, do I detect another devotee of the RKC/Strongfirst KB stuff?

If not, I'd thoroughly recommend Pavel Tsatsouline's articles/books/videos on KB exercises and programming (most of which can now be had for free on youtube etc) - although some of the earlier videos are Top Gun levels of accidental homoeroticism! :blush:
'Devotee' might be pushing it, but yes I'm following the Simple & Sinister programme. Pretty sure I first heard of it from you on here, in fact, and have had the e-book and a couple of KBs for a while, but only started it since the start of lockdown. I've known about Pavel and KBs for a long time but always dismissed it in the past as marketing hype (which tbf a lot of it is, but that doesn't mean there aren't benefits to the approach without the guff about adding 1000s of pounds to your squat with KB swings)

I think it makes a lot of sense as an approach, I do have a lingering doubt that eventually something will go wrong (some kind of overuse injury from the lack of variation) but can take responsibility for being watchful on that front. Anyway, I'm enjoying it, which is half the battle, and making progress without feeling at all beaten up as I generally do with powerlifting type programmes. Have started thinking about getting in 28 & 32 kg KBs as if I keep progressing I'll need them soonish.
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Jim Lahey
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Re: The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

Post by Jim Lahey »

There’s a lot to be said for low intensity cardio. I use it to keep my daily step count above 10k, something I wouldn’t be able to do if I was doing intense running. Also gives me an opportunity to get through a mountain of podcasts and audiobooks which I can concentrate on, rather than either not paying full attention or sticking on music because I’m so f**ked from going hard.

Also long cycles in the countryside are a great way to unwind and have some appreciation for the place that you live.

If you mix 3-4 of those time of sessions a week with 1 or 2 higher intensity workouts you hit a real nice sweet spot in terms of weight loss and general conditioning, imo.
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