Irishers-The Official Irish politics thread

All things Rugby

Who will you give your 1st preference to?

FG
35
47%
FF
12
16%
LAB
6
8%
SF
7
9%
SD
8
11%
AAA/PBP
2
3%
RN
0
No votes
IND
4
5%
 
Total votes: 74

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camroc1
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by camroc1 »

rfurlong wrote:What's happening here is that large swathes of people are coming off the live register or progressing in their careers and growing wealthier. As this happens, the relative gap between the haves and have nots is naturally increasing.

What the poverty industry wants us to believe is that individuals and families who are left on the live register (or whose earnings haven't improved because of a lack of skills in their possession) are somehow DEPRIVED because others are doing better RELATIVE to them.

'Relative poverty' being used in the same sentence as 'deprivation' is a cynical calculated mistruth being perpetrated by the hard left and other ideologues.

Of course we could be doing better as a nation (even though we have an incredibly generous SW system), but you'd swear we were living in Burundi if you listen to the professional whingers out there.
As noted above we have 900 families in emergency accommodation. Add in the up to 200 street sleepers to make 1100 families.

There are 1.5m households in the country; the 1100 that the homeless charities (I was very nearly typing industry there, for that's what it is), represent 0.07% of the total number of households.

Whilst nobody wants to be in that position, and it is tragic and awful for the people who find themselves so, in the overall picture it is hardly noticeable. However anyone who tries to use actual stats is usually called Thatcherite and cold hearted, as one, or two, or a half dozen of the 1100 cases are given a soft focus special.
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redderneck
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by redderneck »

camroc1 wrote:
rfurlong wrote:What's happening here is that large swathes of people are coming off the live register or progressing in their careers and growing wealthier. As this happens, the relative gap between the haves and have nots is naturally increasing.

What the poverty industry wants us to believe is that individuals and families who are left on the live register (or whose earnings haven't improved because of a lack of skills in their possession) are somehow DEPRIVED because others are doing better RELATIVE to them.

'Relative poverty' being used in the same sentence as 'deprivation' is a cynical calculated mistruth being perpetrated by the hard left and other ideologues.

Of course we could be doing better as a nation (even though we have an incredibly generous SW system), but you'd swear we were living in Burundi if you listen to the professional whingers out there.
As noted above we have 900 families in emergency accommodation. Add in the up to 200 street sleepers to make 1100 families.

There are 1.5m households in the country; the 1100 that the homeless charities (I was very nearly typing industry there, for that's what it is), represent 0.07% of the total number of households.

Whilst nobody wants to be in that position, and it is tragic and awful for the people who find themselves so, in the overall picture it is hardly noticeable. However anyone who tries to use actual stats is usually called Thatcherite and cold hearted, as one, or two, or a half dozen of the 1100 cases are given a soft focus special.
Spot on. The need the media have for putting a human interest angle on every story in an effort to capture the attention of those with SFA attention span left is irritating beyond belief.

Ask yourself this though cam - how may Irish politicians do you think have the mental capacity, first of all, and the bollocks, second of all, to come right out and make a relatively unscripted, data/facts-based observation such as the one you've just made?
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

redderneck wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
rfurlong wrote:What's happening here is that large swathes of people are coming off the live register or progressing in their careers and growing wealthier. As this happens, the relative gap between the haves and have nots is naturally increasing.

What the poverty industry wants us to believe is that individuals and families who are left on the live register (or whose earnings haven't improved because of a lack of skills in their possession) are somehow DEPRIVED because others are doing better RELATIVE to them.

'Relative poverty' being used in the same sentence as 'deprivation' is a cynical calculated mistruth being perpetrated by the hard left and other ideologues.

Of course we could be doing better as a nation (even though we have an incredibly generous SW system), but you'd swear we were living in Burundi if you listen to the professional whingers out there.
As noted above we have 900 families in emergency accommodation. Add in the up to 200 street sleepers to make 1100 families.

There are 1.5m households in the country; the 1100 that the homeless charities (I was very nearly typing industry there, for that's what it is), represent 0.07% of the total number of households.

Whilst nobody wants to be in that position, and it is tragic and awful for the people who find themselves so, in the overall picture it is hardly noticeable. However anyone who tries to use actual stats is usually called Thatcherite and cold hearted, as one, or two, or a half dozen of the 1100 cases are given a soft focus special.
Spot on. The need the media have for putting a human interest angle on every story in an effort to capture the attention of those with SFA attention span left is irritating beyond belief.

Ask yourself this though cam - how may Irish politicians do you think have the mental capacity, first of all, and the bollocks, second of all, to come right out and make a relatively unscripted, data/facts-based observation such as the one you've just made?
The answer is zero

This is a spend spend spend country in outlook which has paid for those goodies by using our unique position in the EU and single currency to our advantage. Politicians in Ireland are described as Thatcher and right wing if they propose cutting a few euro in dole payments ffs.
Flyin Ryan
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Flyin Ryan »

Always thought that situations like this one and the ones that have occurred in Belgium and Lebanon (where a presidential election is 2 years and counting) should lock everyone in a room and no one is allowed to leave until they have a government.

It also tells you how meaningless politicians are that the country runs just fine, although that's not a point in the philosophy of democracy's favor. Who's in charge at the moment?
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redderneck
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by redderneck »

Anthony Foley.

This is the only reason any of us give a shit tbh.
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MrJonno
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by MrJonno »

We should combine it with the census and the ancient athenian system so from everyone who returns the census forms correctly filled in, 500 names are drawn and they become the only candidates for the election and in turn we all vote from them for the new government.

That can't be much more shambolic than leaving it to the parties we currently have, though it is based on the assumption that no shinner could accurately and honestly fill in any type of form at all let alone a census form. They probably lie on their birth certificates.
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HighKingLeinster
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by HighKingLeinster »

MrJonno wrote:We should combine it with the census and the ancient athenian system so from everyone who returns the census forms correctly filled in, 500 names are drawn and they become the only candidates for the election and in turn we all vote from them for the new government.

That can't be much more shambolic than leaving it to the parties we currently have, though it is based on the assumption that no shinner could accurately and honestly fill in any type of form at all let alone a census form. They probably lie on their birth certificates.
well there birth cert would be filled in by their mother. though their response then would likely be "Who said I got a mother?"
Nolanator
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Nolanator »

HighKingLeinster wrote:
MrJonno wrote:We should combine it with the census and the ancient athenian system so from everyone who returns the census forms correctly filled in, 500 names are drawn and they become the only candidates for the election and in turn we all vote from them for the new government.

That can't be much more shambolic than leaving it to the parties we currently have, though it is based on the assumption that no shinner could accurately and honestly fill in any type of form at all let alone a census form. They probably lie on their birth certificates.
well there birth cert would be filled in by their mother. though their response then would likely be "Who said I got a mother?"
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anonymous_joe
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by anonymous_joe »

Flyin Ryan wrote:Always thought that situations like this one and the ones that have occurred in Belgium and Lebanon (where a presidential election is 2 years and counting) should lock everyone in a room and no one is allowed to leave until they have a government.

It also tells you how meaningless politicians are that the country runs just fine, although that's not a point in the philosophy of democracy's favor. Who's in charge at the moment?
I mean, democracy works well with an educated electorate. It's a problem when you need to be elected by people who don't understand what you're trying to do.
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danthefan
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by danthefan »

Flyin Ryan wrote:Always thought that situations like this one and the ones that have occurred in Belgium and Lebanon (where a presidential election is 2 years and counting) should lock everyone in a room and no one is allowed to leave until they have a government.

It also tells you how meaningless politicians are that the country runs just fine, although that's not a point in the philosophy of democracy's favor. Who's in charge at the moment?
The organs of the State don't shut down because we've no government.
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Uncle Fester
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Uncle Fester »

So as usual approx 60% of the state will pay extra to cover the 40% spongers.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics ... -1.2618233
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

Uncle Fester wrote:So as usual approx 60% of the state will pay extra to cover the 40% spongers.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics ... -1.2618233
Fianna Fáil are a f**king joke.
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CM11
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by CM11 »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/wate ... 62791.html

Headline doesn't quite match the article.

Anyway, will wait and see. I've lost count of the amount of 'breakthroughs' we've had.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

CM11 wrote:http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/wate ... 62791.html

Headline doesn't quite match the article.

Anyway, will wait and see. I've lost count of the amount of 'breakthroughs' we've had.
Farce
MrBunhead
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by MrBunhead »

CM11 wrote:http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/wate ... 62791.html

Headline doesn't quite match the article.

Anyway, will wait and see. I've lost count of the amount of 'breakthroughs' we've had.
Independent.ie understands that Fine Gael has agreed to suspend water charges while a commission of experts draw up a report on how best to re-introduce them and encourage conservation.
What a waste of money :lol:

best way to re-introduce them: don't get rid of them in the first place
best way to encourage conservation: metering

now where's by millions bitches :smug:
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camroc1
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by camroc1 »

MrBunhead wrote:
CM11 wrote:http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/wate ... 62791.html

Headline doesn't quite match the article.

Anyway, will wait and see. I've lost count of the amount of 'breakthroughs' we've had.
Independent.ie understands that Fine Gael has agreed to suspend water charges while a commission of experts draw up a report on how best to re-introduce them and encourage conservation.
What a waste of money :lol:

best way to re-introduce them: don't get rid of them in the first place
best way to encourage conservation: metering

now where's by millions bitches :smug:
Both Engineers Ireland and the ACEI (the Association of Consulting Engineers of Ireland) have come out very strongly in favour of a single body, able to raise money in its own right on the back of consumer charges, ie the original Irish Water model, so it will be interesting to see how many actual experts, ie Engineers with relevant experience in the industry, get to sit on this 'expert' commission. What's the betting it's made up of the usual management consultant types, who haven't a breeze about what the problem is, but are willing to write a report, giving the 'right answer' based on political briefings, for the usual vast fee.
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Gavin Duffy
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Fianna Fail are utter scum.
Nolanator
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Nolanator »

Bump. This mess going to be sorted out today?
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Floppykid
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Floppykid »

Gavin Duffy wrote:Fianna Fail are utter scum.
Yup, the Irish get who they deserve though.
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camroc1
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by camroc1 »

Just read the draft agreement between FG and the indo's and it is very evident who wrote which parts.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/311631772/Pr ... dependents

Large parts of it are hot air of the ' We will support....' variety with no defined budgetary consequences.

Big Winners :
1. Health - a sustained increase in budget. There's actually lots of good stuff about primary care etc in there, but that won't survive the vested interests.
2. The Gardaí - specific promise to increase numbers to 15k
3. Rural Ireland. Of the 200k jobs 'to be created' by 2020, 135k of them are for rural Ireland leaving only 65k for the biggest and fastest growing region in the state.
4. Social Housing. Depending on how you read the document and different promises, between 35k and 100k new social housing units to be provided, with at least 35k direct by LAs. (Incidentally, most LAs are trying to get out of the SH provision market, arguing that they can't act as Landlords and Tenants reps at the same time). Some talk of Housing Associations (the way to go imo) but much of it vague and airy fairy.
5.The Defence Forces. The White Paper to be implemented in full including the increase to a 9 ship navy, and minimum personel numbers in both the PDF and RDF to be guaranteed. Only Costume Barracks, Athlone specifically named in the 'not allowed to close my local small barracks' column.
6. Big Dublin Transport Plans. Last years transport plan to be implemented in full.

Reading the document it is clear that many demands were met with something along the lines of 'We're already doing that with this programme' when met with specific demands.

As said a lot of it is aspirational in the 'moms apple pie' category, that few will argue with.
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Bullettyme
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Bullettyme »

FG are absolutely desperate. They caved to FF on most issues.

Editm: this is another farce, FG TDs stalling whilst the IA gombeens are still hammering out their deal.
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camroc1
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by camroc1 »

The most worrying part of the agreement is the promise not to sell more than 25% of AIB before the end of 2018. That very suspiciously smells of some independent/FF wanting to take a political interest in running the bank instead of running it at arms length. Not good.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

It's gas the way in every country politicans pull job creation figures out of their arse.

Apart from maybe directing the IDA to point FDI away to rural areas (every village needs a big Pharma plant and the multinationals are gagging to locate there :) ), there's fudge all they can do.
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camroc1
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by camroc1 »

Blackrock Bullet wrote:It's gas the way in every country politicans pull job creation figures out of their arse.

Apart from maybe directing the IDA to point FDI away to rural areas (every village needs a big Pharma plant and the multinationals are gagging to locate there :) ), there's f**k all they can do.
Indeed. I suspect some creative use of where rural Ireland starts, and urban Dublin finishes will be the order of the day.


As I said the only real 'scare the horses', bar the wide belief in the money tree, moment in the docs is the treatment of the banks.
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epaddy
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by epaddy »

camroc1 wrote:The most worrying part of the agreement is the promise not to sell more than 25% of AIB before the end of 2018. That very suspiciously smells of some independent/FF wanting to take a political interest in running the bank instead of running it at arms length. Not good.
Hardly the most worrying. It was always going to be a slow sell. IPO's are getting a kicking at the moment and banking stocks are very weak.

The most worrying part of this is we are getting hung up on turf cutting and constituency issues in order to form a national government.
ID2
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by ID2 »

Kowtowing to independents :thumbdown: Totally irresponsible and will come back to bite us in ass when our stupid electorate vote even more of them in next time
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epaddy
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by epaddy »

Government seems to be on a knife edge over whether Noonan will sanction a €25k a day fine for one TD's pet project. Time to call everyone's bluff, fudge off Enda and got to the country again.
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epaddy
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by epaddy »

How many shouty leftie nut job groups are there in the Dail now?
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Bullettyme
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Bullettyme »

epaddy wrote:How many shouty leftie nut job groups are there in the Dail now?
I hope they keep grandstanding away, delay the vote as long as possible.

Although maybe we should just go to the polls again.
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Malahide Mullet
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Malahide Mullet »

You're all pining for the days of FF at 80 seats now you ungrateful fúckers.
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Witchfinder General
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Witchfinder General »

epaddy wrote:How many shouty leftie nut job groups are there in the Dail now?
theres the People before profit/AAA
the people before the people before profit,
the people before profit (marxist -leninist)
and theres the clare daly/mick Wallace unwashed alliance (anti soap tendency)
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Malahide Mullet
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Malahide Mullet »

And Labour
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Witchfinder General
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Witchfinder General »

Malahide Mullet wrote:And Labour
Labour don't shout they make reasonable points in a serious voice (which is their main failing as an Irish political party)
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camroc1
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by camroc1 »

RTE blogging that, surprise, surprise, agreement between FG and the IA has been reached.
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Floppykid
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by Floppykid »

camroc1 wrote:RTE blogging that, surprise, surprise, agreement between FG and the IA has been reached.
Hopefully it's "keep your mouths shut and vote as you're told to."
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camroc1
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by camroc1 »

No breakthrough on turf.

Either Enda by the bare minimum or a new GE.
ID2
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by ID2 »

And Enda elected
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CM11
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by CM11 »

So, how long are we giving it? Will they get a budget through?
ID2
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by ID2 »

Image

This pic of independents keeps popping up. Besides being an annoying picture full of me feiners, they're all overweight. This country has serious health issues coming down the line, although I suppose getting am unfit for purpose hospital in every parish will help
ZappaMan
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Re: Irishers-Official 2016 Post General Election clusterf*ck

Post by ZappaMan »

Pink is so out :thumbdown:
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