OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

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In
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Total votes: 415

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SamShark
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

I know what she said, yes.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

Trance:

Do you say no referendum on principle, or because you fear the result may be different?
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

SamShark wrote:Trance:

Do you say no referendum on principle, or because you fear the result may be different?
On principal but that's me. As I said I wouldn't have been too fussed either way. I think it's ridiculous to suggest another referendum because some people didn't like the result. it's a slippery slope and will lead to a lot of civil unrest.

By all means hold another referendum say in 10, 20 years to see if people want to stay outside the EU or join the EU but not in the near future.

Edit - I think people will vote to leave again if another referendum were held today.
Last edited by TranceNRG on Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zico
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Zico »

TranceNRG wrote: You know there's no chance of another referendum happening. Theresa May has said that many times.
The same Theresa May who was against Brexit earlier this year and vowed there'd be no 3rd runway at Heathrow? :D

Of any politician at Westminister what she says applies only in the moment she says it.
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TranceNRG
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

Zico wrote:
TranceNRG wrote: You know there's no chance of another referendum happening. Theresa May has said that many times.
The same Theresa May who was against Brexit earlier this year and vowed there'd be no 3rd runway at Heathrow? :D

Of any politician at Westminister what she says applies only in the moment she says it.
I'm not sure what she says about the runway before she was the PM. She had to accept the result of the commission.

I think there's 0% chance of another referendum happening - you are getting your hopes up for nothing. People need to accept the result and move on.
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SamShark
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

TranceNRG wrote:
SamShark wrote:Trance:

Do you say no referendum on principle, or because you fear the result may be different?
On principal but that's me. As I said I wouldn't have been too fussed either way. I think it's ridiculous to suggest another referendum because some people didn't like the result. it's a slippery slope and will lead to a lot of civil unrest.

By all means hold another referendum say in 10, 20 years to see if people want to stay outside the EU or join the EU but not in the near future.
I think it's open to debate BECAUSE lots of people didn't like the result.

It would be a different matter if it was 80:20 leave, but it was very close.

As hundreds of pages of thread shows, it's complex rather than binary.

If remain won by the same margin and leavers were saying "we need another referendum" I fully accept I'd be arguing against it, but it wouldn't have ended the debate, though of course ending the status quo is different from maintaining it.
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Zico
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Zico »

TranceNRG wrote: I think there's 0% chance of another referendum happening - you are getting your hopes up for nothing. People need to accept the result and move on.
I don't care if there's another referendum, I won't be voting in it. It's only something that people who voted for Brexit should be concerned about if public opinion swings against leaving the EU before they can get Britain out. Which is very possible.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

SamShark wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:
SamShark wrote:Trance:

Do you say no referendum on principle, or because you fear the result may be different?
On principal but that's me. As I said I wouldn't have been too fussed either way. I think it's ridiculous to suggest another referendum because some people didn't like the result. it's a slippery slope and will lead to a lot of civil unrest.

By all means hold another referendum say in 10, 20 years to see if people want to stay outside the EU or join the EU but not in the near future.
I think it's open to debate BECAUSE lots of people didn't like the result.

It would be a different matter if it was 80:20 leave, but it was very close.

As hundreds of pages of thread shows, it's complex rather than binary.

If remain won by the same margin and leavers were saying "we need another referendum" I fully accept I'd be arguing against it, but it wouldn't have ended the debate, though of course ending the status quo is different from maintaining it.
Yes it was relatively close but not as close as you think - Million more voted to leave. if it only a couple of thousand I'd say fair enough hold another one but no whatever the result people need to accept it and move on.

As I said if it was a vote to remain I wouldn't have made any fuss except think that UK missed the chance to leave the EU before it was too late. I understand though if it was an In vote, some of the ardent Brexiters like Farage would be doing exactly what some of the remainers are doing. At the end end of the day it's government's job ot make sure the result of the referendum is respected and not given in to the pressure of vocal media and some people who can't accept the result. Theresa May is doing the right thing - trying to make a success out of Brexit.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

Zico wrote:
TranceNRG wrote: I think there's 0% chance of another referendum happening - you are getting your hopes up for nothing. People need to accept the result and move on.
I don't care if there's another referendum, I won't be voting in it. It's only something that people who voted for Brexit should be concerned about if public opinion swings against leaving the EU before they can get Britain out. Which is very possible.
If there's clear evidence that majority want to be part of the EU, yes I can agree with that. But we ALL know that's not the case. Realistically you won't find out whether people are happy to leave the EU or not for a number of years and by that stage UK will be well and truly be out of the EU.
Article 50 is going to be triggered in a few months unless the court case can stop the government which I doubt very much.
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SamShark
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

The only thing I find troubling is the proposition that the debate is over. The debate is never over.

At the moment we are moving towards leaving the EU and the Government has the ability to make that happen if it wants to.

But there's still seemingly no consensus on what the terms of leaving should be even if you go down the "they won;t reveal their hand" route.

There isn't a mandate to focus purely on immigration as the sole objective.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by kagamusha »

Leinster in London wrote:
DAC2016 wrote:It does make me laugh, anything, ANYTHING positive happening to the country is still given the spin treatment to make it negative.

For example, regaining control of our fishing waters.
Most of the boats were sold to spanish businesses, along with the rights to fish British waters.
That will not be going anywhere
The British fishing industry largely disappeared in the 1970s after the cod wars with Iceland.

As an economic force it is trivial now and the regaining of the 200 mile exclusive limit will have little effect.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Gospel »

kagamusha wrote:As an economic force it is trivial now and the regaining of the 200 mile exclusive limit will have little effect.
Tell that to Brittany. They will lose 80% of their catch.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by camroc1 »

Gospel wrote:
kagamusha wrote:As an economic force it is trivial now and the regaining of the 200 mile exclusive limit will have little effect.
Tell that to Brittany. They will lose 80% of their catch.
Fish don't hold nationality. They generally swim about the sea chasing food, and aren't aware (fancy that) of when they cross sea borders. Nobody owns the fish, they simply attempt to catch them as they swim onto the fisherman's home ground.

British fish. :yawn:
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rocketz »

TranceNRG wrote:
Zico wrote:
TranceNRG wrote: I think there's 0% chance of another referendum happening - you are getting your hopes up for nothing. People need to accept the result and move on.
I don't care if there's another referendum, I won't be voting in it. It's only something that people who voted for Brexit should be concerned about if public opinion swings against leaving the EU before they can get Britain out. Which is very possible.
If there's clear evidence that majority want to be part of the EU, yes I can agree with that. But we ALL know that's not the case. Realistically you won't find out whether people are happy to leave the EU or not for a number of years and by that stage UK will be well and truly be out of the EU.
Article 50 is going to be triggered in a few months unless the court case can stop the government which I doubt very much.
Non arguably one of the dumbest people that I have ever had the non privilege to interact with both offline and online in my existence. Seriously trancegps you must be living of your dad's money if you are an above average income earner.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Uthikoloshe »

Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by bimboman »

Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?

"Europe" apparently.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Gospel »

camroc1 wrote:
Gospel wrote:
kagamusha wrote:As an economic force it is trivial now and the regaining of the 200 mile exclusive limit will have little effect.
Tell that to Brittany. They will lose 80% of their catch.
Fish don't hold nationality. They generally swim about the sea chasing food, and aren't aware (fancy that) of when they cross sea borders. Nobody owns the fish, they simply attempt to catch them as they swim onto the fisherman's home ground.

British fish. :yawn:
Wut? :lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
He's one of a few that simply hate the UK, and invest a lot of time putting the boot in. Constant negative sniping, you need to tune them out.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by fisgard792 »

the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rocketz »

Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
It's super fun. This is the web.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rocketz »

DragsterDriver wrote:
Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
He's one of a few that simply hate the UK, and invest a lot of time putting the boot in. Constant negative sniping, you need to tune them out.
Come on.... One day the British will own up to the damage they did in the world.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

fisgard792 wrote:the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
Can't see there being a referendum or general
Election- there's enough upheaval.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Uthikoloshe »

Rocketz wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
He's one of a few that simply hate the UK, and invest a lot of time putting the boot in. Constant negative sniping, you need to tune them out.
Come on.... One day the British will own up to the damage they did in the world.
Ok your anti British and I assume that means english. You are probably right depending on whats considered 'damaging'. They seem to have damaged your mind at any rate. What is your grevance against them in particular? Is this a Boer war thing?
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by unseenwork »

fisgard792 wrote:the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
The damage is being done regardless.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by bimboman »

Rocketz wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
He's one of a few that simply hate the UK, and invest a lot of time putting the boot in. Constant negative sniping, you need to tune them out.
Come on.... One day the British will own up to the damage they did in the world.

:lol: , which British ? The ones who fought the Boer war as true working class poor ? The government of the time? Immigrant indians living in Leicester ? The descendants of any of those ?

Come on you crazy bigot help us out here ..... We are aware of our empire both good and bad.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

The loony saffer halfwit is best put on ignore :nod:
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

But a Prime Minister's spokesman said: "The PM has been absolutely clear - the British people have spoken, we are listening, we're going to leave the European Union.

"And not only has the PM been clear here but she's also been clear when she's met European leaders.

"There will be no second referendum, Britain is leaving the European Union."

Downing Street also brushed off concerns about Mr Blair communicating his views with the French President.

Adding: "Tony Blair is entitled to put his views to whom he so chooses. Tony Blair speaks for himself. "
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by piquant »

Adetroy wrote:Turkey, customs union:

Turkey, by accepting the customs union protocol, was giving the EU the power to manipulate the foreign relations of Turkey. Turkey was accepting all the treaties between EU and any non EU country (i.e. all the other countries in the world) by precondition. (16th and 55th articles[4] )
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was accepting not to do any treaties with any non-EU country without the knowledge of EU. Otherwise, EU had the right to intervene and annul that treaty. (56th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was unconditionally accepting to make laws which are parallel to the newer laws made for the customs union by EU. (8th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was accepting to obey the all laws and decisions of European Court of Justice, where there is no single Turkish judge. (64th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was opening its own market to European goods. The domestic goods of Turkey were in a great difficulty to compete against these due to a difference in quality. The European goods would flow into Turkey without any customs fee.
Thanks for that.

It's always possible of course we can negotiate something out of this, but it's a right old mess we've landed in.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rocketz »

TranceNRG wrote:The loony saffer halfwit is best put on ignore :nod:
Didn't you cry last time? And ask your friends here to wipe your nosey wosey?
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by bimboman »

Rocketz wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:The loony saffer halfwit is best put on ignore :nod:
Didn't you cry last time? And ask your friends here to wipe your nosey wosey?

Here he is, that gentle decendant of gentle farmers.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rocketz »

Uthikoloshe wrote:
Rocketz wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
He's one of a few that simply hate the UK, and invest a lot of time putting the boot in. Constant negative sniping, you need to tune them out.
Come on.... One day the British will own up to the damage they did in the world.
Ok your anti British and I assume that means english. You are probably right depending on whats considered 'damaging'. They seem to have damaged your mind at any rate. What is your grevance against them in particular? Is this a Boer war thing?
There is whole 100 pages of me humiliating trancepms. Explaining it. But it boils down to things like this


https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4
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henry
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by henry »

There are some massively weird people on here. It borders on alarming.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by bimboman »

henry wrote:There are some massively weird people on here. It borders on alarming.

Everyone has a drum to beat Henners, there's supporting your team, ribbing the supporters of others, a discussion about a good round of golf, or trying to link everything to a minor historical event in,particular trying to correlate almost any historical and any current event to the historical event that vexes the individual I believe it's clinically known as camrocism.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

DragsterDriver wrote:
fisgard792 wrote:the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
Can't see there being a referendum or general
Election- there's enough upheaval.
I do find this argument amusing when it comes from people who argued passionately that we should leave the EU to become a more democratic nation which makes its own decisions based on the will of the British people. Apparently we needed more democracy but not more elections
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by jorwar »

piquant wrote:
Adetroy wrote:Turkey, customs union:

Turkey, by accepting the customs union protocol, was giving the EU the power to manipulate the foreign relations of Turkey. Turkey was accepting all the treaties between EU and any non EU country (i.e. all the other countries in the world) by precondition. (16th and 55th articles[4] )
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was accepting not to do any treaties with any non-EU country without the knowledge of EU. Otherwise, EU had the right to intervene and annul that treaty. (56th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was unconditionally accepting to make laws which are parallel to the newer laws made for the customs union by EU. (8th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was accepting to obey the all laws and decisions of European Court of Justice, where there is no single Turkish judge. (64th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was opening its own market to European goods. The domestic goods of Turkey were in a great difficulty to compete against these due to a difference in quality. The European goods would flow into Turkey without any customs fee.
Thanks for that.

It's always possible of course we can negotiate something out of this, but it's a right old mess we've landed in.
John Harris in the guardian:

"A lot of these people would presumably agree with AC Grayling, who may yet find himself in the unfamiliar position of speaking for a substantial body of public opinion: leaving the EU, he recently tweeted, “is obviously such an incredibly bad idea – just stop it."

For many people that kind of talk always triggers a deep ambivalence. If what took the leave side to victory was the support of so-called “left behind” voters who had not been listened to for decades, it still seems to me that arguing they should be ignored may not just be democratically questionable, but a gift to the forces that, even with Ukip apparently imploding, would know a once-in-a-lifetime chance when they saw it, and strike. Witness the pro-Brexit tycoon Arron Banks, who now wants to bankroll nothing less than a “people’s movement”, and give voice to “England rising”. In that sense, there remains a good argument for those of us who voted remain to stand back, and let this frazzled example of government-by-plebiscite run its course, while bearing in mind the immortal words of the US writer and satirist HL Mencken: “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

bimboman wrote:
Rocketz wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:The loony saffer halfwit is best put on ignore :nod:
Didn't you cry last time? And ask your friends here to wipe your nosey wosey?

Here he is, that gentle decendant of gentle farmers.
He's too stupid to realise I put the numpty on ignore :o
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
fisgard792 wrote:the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
Can't see there being a referendum or general
Election- there's enough upheaval.
I do find this argument amusing when it comes from people who argued passionately that we should leave the EU to become a more democratic nation which makes its own decisions based on the will of the British people. Apparently we needed more democracy but not more elections
I've not heard it from people who argued passionately that we should leave the EU to become a more democratic nation which makes its own decisions based on the will of the British people :)

I think there's enough turmoil without adding too it, the uncertainty would be too toxic- what if it's a win for remain? Do we then have another one? We'd be in limbo forever.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
fisgard792 wrote:the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
Can't see there being a referendum or general
Election- there's enough upheaval.
I do find this argument amusing when it comes from people who argued passionately that we should leave the EU to become a more democratic nation which makes its own decisions based on the will of the British people. Apparently we needed more democracy but not more elections
So more democracy means more referendums till you get the result you want? If things are so bad in 10 years time after being out of the EU (I don't believe they will be) then yes hold another referendum and if people want to join the sinking ship that is the EU yes do so.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by henry »

bimboman wrote:
henry wrote:There are some massively weird people on here. It borders on alarming.

Everyone has a drum to beat Henners, there's supporting your team, ribbing the supporters of others, a discussion about a good round of golf, or trying to link everything to a minor historical event in,particular trying to correlate almost any historical and any current event to the historical event that vexes the individual I believe it's clinically known as camrocism.
I'd like to think I'd have a pint with everyone on here but one or two individuals, definitely give one pause.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

henry wrote:
bimboman wrote:
henry wrote:There are some massively weird people on here. It borders on alarming.

Everyone has a drum to beat Henners, there's supporting your team, ribbing the supporters of others, a discussion about a good round of golf, or trying to link everything to a minor historical event in,particular trying to correlate almost any historical and any current event to the historical event that vexes the individual I believe it's clinically known as camrocism.
I'd like to think I'd have a pint with everyone on here but one or two individuals, definitely give one pause.
I'd have to buy my own drink, and not let it out of my sight :o
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