OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

[dr dre2]

They've already broadcast their "red line" issues and it reamins to be seen how baked in they are.

The problem is in part that 2 strategys of post Ref Brexit have been debunked. The first, David Davis's big plan to side step the EU altogether and do a deal with Germany and France (not happening). And the second, preliminary talks before art 50 is triggered (nothing so far). Both of those would have given a fairly clear idea of what kind of deal could be expected before it happened.

Article 50 hasn't been activated. Bear in mind it was Davis's initiative to delay the activation of Article 50 in the first instance in order to prepare a negotiating team. I should imagine it remains the UK's intention to strike deals with Germany and France, whether Merkel and Hollande will still be in situ is another question.

It won't happen because any deal would require the approval of all 27 members of the EU.

You're probably right about Hollande (approval 5%) but Merkel has little opposition in Germany.

Are you not keeping up with the situation there? Her approval rating is dropping like a stone, her party is getting beaten in to third place in the local elections by a bunch of far right loons, she's been un-invited from attending the convention of her sister party (an event it's traditional she attends) the sister party who are so close to her party they decide to only put one candidate forward between them (since ww2), that sister party's leader has publicly fallen out with her, there is talk of other member of her coalition dropping her and one of her ministers has come out in support of a policy against the party line. All while she ponders whether to run again or not in 10 months time. Yeah, she's probably not going to be there.

[bimboman]

If someone pays their taxes and NI shoudldn't they be entitled to avail of state services etc? Child benefit, which isn't that much in the UK, in all likelihood ends up back in the UK economy fairly rapidly(excepting situtations where the immigrants move abroad/back home). Would tax credits not be a better example of unearned benefits?

It's whether they're paying enough tax and NI to cover the bill though, it's disengenuos to argue they're still contributing if the tax paid is less than the services offered.

Child benefit in the UK is a damm sight higher than it is in Lithuania or Poland, again it's a value judgement regarding cheaper services and food being worth the subsidy.

[Zico]

If someone pays their taxes and NI shoudldn't they be entitled to avail of state services etc? Child benefit, which isn't that much in the UK, in all likelihood ends up back in the UK economy fairly rapidly(excepting situtations where the immigrants move abroad/back home). Would tax credits not be a better example of unearned benefits?

It's whether they're paying enough tax and NI to cover the bill though, it's disengenuos to argue they're still contributing if the tax paid is less than the services offered.

Child benefit in the UK is a damm sight higher than it is in Lithuania or Poland, again it's a value judgement regarding cheaper services and food being worth the subsidy.

Holy shit you're really suggesting a country might be better off with a smaller economy.

[bimboman]

If someone pays their taxes and NI shoudldn't they be entitled to avail of state services etc? Child benefit, which isn't that much in the UK, in all likelihood ends up back in the UK economy fairly rapidly(excepting situtations where the immigrants move abroad/back home). Would tax credits not be a better example of unearned benefits?

It's whether they're paying enough tax and NI to cover the bill though, it's disengenuos to argue they're still contributing if the tax paid is less than the services offered.

Child benefit in the UK is a damm sight higher than it is in Lithuania or Poland, again it's a value judgement regarding cheaper services and food being worth the subsidy.

Holy shit you're really suggesting a country might be better off with a smaller economy.

Well per head they may be. What's odd about that ? Plus if the cost of services like food delivery and "childcare" rise proportionately then there's not actually an economic loss.

[dr dre2]

If someone pays their taxes and NI shoudldn't they be entitled to avail of state services etc? Child benefit, which isn't that much in the UK, in all likelihood ends up back in the UK economy fairly rapidly(excepting situtations where the immigrants move abroad/back home). Would tax credits not be a better example of unearned benefits?

It's whether they're paying enough tax and NI to cover the bill though, it's disengenuos to argue they're still contributing if the tax paid is less than the services offered.

Child benefit in the UK is a damm sight higher than it is in Lithuania or Poland, again it's a value judgement regarding cheaper services and food being worth the subsidy.

I I posted earlier, he's not looking at child tax credits either and I posted the figures earlier, We make jusp a 5p "profit" (£1.05 payed in tax, for every £1.00 taken) on Long term EU migrants, this includes migrants from rich countries. The rich country EU migrants are a lot more profitable (as shown in the other figures), We will be losing heavily on the Eastern European EU long term migrants. We only make 12p on the young single ones (Eastern European), 64p we make on the French young single etc.

[dr dre2]

If someone pays their taxes and NI shoudldn't they be entitled to avail of state services etc? Child benefit, which isn't that much in the UK, in all likelihood ends up back in the UK economy fairly rapidly(excepting situtations where the immigrants move abroad/back home). Would tax credits not be a better example of unearned benefits?

It's whether they're paying enough tax and NI to cover the bill though, it's disengenuos to argue they're still contributing if the tax paid is less than the services offered.

Child benefit in the UK is a damm sight higher than it is in Lithuania or Poland, again it's a value judgement regarding cheaper services and food being worth the subsidy.

Holy shit you're really suggesting a country might be better off with a smaller economy.

Well per head they may be. What's odd about that ?

Yeah, having a big turnover but running at a massive loss or a slightly smaller one and running at a profit. I know which one makes business sense to me. Pushing up T/O and seeking borrowing to cover the shortfall is the very definition of insolvency and illegal trading, if you do that knowingly as a director you can be made personally liable for the debt and go to jail. Pushing up T/O and creating a bubble is just great until you can no longer fuel the bubble with growth, ask labour. Ask Ireland!!! As long as you bring in £1.1m this month to cover last months £1m bill you're just grand, then £1.2 next month and on and on until you can no longer keep up, then the market adjusts and you're f**ked. I've been there personally.

[Zico]

Well there's already a name for reducing the size of your economy it's called a recession and you boys are the first people I've ever heard suggest it's a good thing.

[dr dre2]

Well there's already a name for reducing the size of your economy it's called a recession and you boys are the first people I've ever heard suggest it's a good thing.

It's only a good thing if you can manage to come out of it with more money to spend, rationalising it's called. I'll give you that it's not usually applied to countries, but is, in business all the time. We'd hope to see growth too with a very short term readjustment. T/O for T/Os sake just gets out of control.

[bimboman]

Well there's already a name for reducing the size of your economy it's called a recession and you boys are the first people I've ever heard suggest it's a good thing.

Are you being deliberately dense ? If the cost of the services provided by migrants rises if theres less immigrants then actually the economy doesn't reduce in size. Plus as pointed out a reduction in turn over with less costs then I'd take that kind of recession all day long.

[paddyor]

Here you go, here's some figures.

Recent EU immigrants contribute £1.34 for every £1 they take, so so we are +34p so a small net gain. Those outside the EU contribute 2p on the same basis. Recent immigrants from the 10 countries that joined the EU in 2004 (mainly eastern European) contribute 12p. Those from established members 64p.

(The longer they stay the worse it gets) But by the time they settle down and have kids EU immigrants contribute 5p, non-EU immigrants -15p. It doesn't mention the 2004 lot but I'd imagine that's -something.

So we need to allow in the young from the established countries and "encourage" them to f**k off before they settle down. And of course yet again, this doesn't include the dilution of living standards it's hard to put a cost on that but it does include services, well at least education, but limiting the numbers and quality limits the impact on infrastructure and increases the contribution.
https://fullfact.org/immigration/do-eu- ... y-receive/


Encourage the young educated to come from 1st world nations in or outside of the EU on time limited work permits but pay no child related benefits and limit the rights to bring family until full citizenship is granted. Come down harshly on companies and individuals who employ those with no work permits. We'll have a fraction of numbers and a multiplication of the contribution.

I just think people should be warned that Dre tried to argue that the Uk market was bigger than the single market earlier in the week.

If someone pays their taxes and NI shoudldn't they be entitled to avail of state services etc? Child benefit, which isn't that much in the UK, in all likelihood ends up back in the UK economy fairly rapidly(excepting situtations where the immigrants move abroad/back home). Would tax credits not be a better example of unearned benefits?

I think you ought to back that up

Child tax credits is substantial, much more so than child benefit. You get both, I'm suggesting neither.

They also sell over twice as many cars in the UK than they do in their next best European market (France). And already have EU plants to make EÙ sales through.

I think the realisation is, as much as it's a pain in the arse you just cant throw that kind of business away. Cool heads will win out.

Toyota have expressed support today too.

[Chuckles1188]

Oh dear

[paddyor]

They've already broadcast their "red line" issues and it reamins to be seen how baked in they are.

The problem is in part that 2 strategys of post Ref Brexit have been debunked. The first, David Davis's big plan to side step the EU altogether and do a deal with Germany and France (not happening). And the second, preliminary talks before art 50 is triggered (nothing so far). Both of those would have given a fairly clear idea of what kind of deal could be expected before it happened.

Article 50 hasn't been activated. Bear in mind it was Davis's initiative to delay the activation of Article 50 in the first instance in order to prepare a negotiating team. I should imagine it remains the UK's intention to strike deals with Germany and France, whether Merkel and Hollande will still be in situ is another question.

It won't happen because any deal would require the approval of all 27 members of the EU.

You're probably right about Hollande (approval 5%) but Merkel has little opposition in Germany.

Are you not keeping up with the situation there? Her approval rating is dropping like a stone, her party is getting beaten in to third place in the local elections by a bunch of far right loons, she's been un-invited from attending the convention of her sister party (an event it's traditional she attends) the sister party who are so close to her party they decide to only put one candidate forward between them (since ww2), that sister party's leader has publicly fallen out with her, there is talk of other member of her coalition dropping her and one of her ministers has come out in support of a policy against the party line. All while she ponders whether to run again or not in 10 months time. Yeah, she's probably not going to be there.

According to the latest poll for the ARD-Tagesthemen media company, 45 percent of Germans are satisfied with Merkel’s work, her lowest poll rating since 2011.
.....

When asked who they would vote for if the next parliamentary elections were on Sunday, only 33 percent of Germans backed Merkel’s Christian Democrats, down one point from last month. Meanwhile the AfD won two percentage points, leapfrogging the Green party as the third most popular party in the country for the second time this year, with 14 percent.

She has been around a while, though that's hardly abnormal in German politics.

Helmut Josef Michael Kohl (German: [ˈhɛlmuːt ˈjoːzɛf 'mɪçaʔeːl ˈkoːl]; born 3 April 1930) is a German retired politician and statesman, who served as Chancellor of Germany from 1982 to 1998 (of West Germany 1982–90 and of the reunited Germany 1990–98) and as the chairman of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) from 1973 to 1998.

[dr dre2]

Oh dear

Exactly! I was clearly comparing country vs country, not country vs trading block to show they actually sell an amount of cars here they couldn't risk losing. Not, of course comparing the UK to the whole continent of Europe.

[Zico]

Well there's already a name for reducing the size of your economy it's called a recession and you boys are the first people I've ever heard suggest it's a good thing.

Are you being deliberately dense ? If the cost of the services provided by migrants rises if theres less immigrants then actually the economy doesn't reduce in size. Plus as pointed out a reduction in turn over with less costs then I'd take that kind of recession all day long.

Which corner shop is this?

[bimboman]

Well there's already a name for reducing the size of your economy it's called a recession and you boys are the first people I've ever heard suggest it's a good thing.

Are you being deliberately dense ? If the cost of the services provided by migrants rises if theres less immigrants then actually the economy doesn't reduce in size. Plus as pointed out a reduction in turn over with less costs then I'd take that kind of recession all day long.

Which corner shop is this?

Not sure it's deliberate , I guess I should apologise.

[Zico]

Well there's already a name for reducing the size of your economy it's called a recession and you boys are the first people I've ever heard suggest it's a good thing.

Are you being deliberately dense ? If the cost of the services provided by migrants rises if theres less immigrants then actually the economy doesn't reduce in size. Plus as pointed out a reduction in turn over with less costs then I'd take that kind of recession all day long.

Which corner shop is this?

Not sure it's deliberate , I guess I should apologise.

You're trying to make an economic case against immigration on a simplist costs anaylsis basis, regardless of whether you've the data to do it acurately it's meaningless on the scale of a country's economy.

Frankly I think it's laughable that you'd even try because immigration is not only beneficial but it's essential for economic prosperity in countries like Britain.

[dr dre2]

They've already broadcast their "red line" issues and it reamins to be seen how baked in they are.

The problem is in part that 2 strategys of post Ref Brexit have been debunked. The first, David Davis's big plan to side step the EU altogether and do a deal with Germany and France (not happening). And the second, preliminary talks before art 50 is triggered (nothing so far). Both of those would have given a fairly clear idea of what kind of deal could be expected before it happened.

Article 50 hasn't been activated. Bear in mind it was Davis's initiative to delay the activation of Article 50 in the first instance in order to prepare a negotiating team. I should imagine it remains the UK's intention to strike deals with Germany and France, whether Merkel and Hollande will still be in situ is another question.

It won't happen because any deal would require the approval of all 27 members of the EU.

You're probably right about Hollande (approval 5%) but Merkel has little opposition in Germany.

Are you not keeping up with the situation there? Her approval rating is dropping like a stone, her party is getting beaten in to third place in the local elections by a bunch of far right loons, she's been un-invited from attending the convention of her sister party (an event it's traditional she attends) the sister party who are so close to her party they decide to only put one candidate forward between them (since ww2), that sister party's leader has publicly fallen out with her, there is talk of other member of her coalition dropping her and one of her ministers has come out in support of a policy against the party line. All while she ponders whether to run again or not in 10 months time. Yeah, she's probably not going to be there.

According to the latest poll for the ARD-Tagesthemen media company, 45 percent of Germans are satisfied with Merkel’s work, her lowest poll rating since 2011.
.....

When asked who they would vote for if the next parliamentary elections were on Sunday, only 33 percent of Germans backed Merkel’s Christian Democrats, down one point from last month. Meanwhile the AfD won two percentage points, leapfrogging the Green party as the third most popular party in the country for the second time this year, with 14 percent.

She has been around a while, though that's hardly abnormal in German politics.

Helmut Josef Michael Kohl (German: [ˈhɛlmuːt ˈjoːzɛf 'mɪçaʔeːl ˈkoːl]; born 3 April 1930) is a German retired politician and statesman, who served as Chancellor of Germany from 1982 to 1998 (of West Germany 1982–90 and of the reunited Germany 1990–98) and as the chairman of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) from 1973 to 1998.

But the 55% (and growing) are very very dissatisfied. CDU are at 32% (polls), compared to 42% (2012 GE) what is unusual that a party that didn't exist until just before the last election are at around 15%. What is more worrying is that party, the far right AfD (Loons) have been giving the CDU a kicking all over the country.

Mecklenburg-Vorpommern state election (Merkel's own constituency) The AfD went from 0 seats to 18 pushing the CDU to 3rd place. And while not quite doing so well in other places have taken large chunks of seats everywhere. This is being pinned on Merkel's refugee policy and is a massive surge from a 3 year old party who are anti immigrant and anti EU. She is blaming Google and wants them to release their algo for scrutiny. And I've already listed the other event unfolding above. The shit only really started to hit the fan last month.

[DragsterDriver]

German politics are strange- Merkel will probably bring afd into the coalition.

[dr dre2]

German politics are strange- Merkel will probably bring afd into the coalition.

Probably not, but it's said the others are softening to them. And others are distancing themselves from Merkel, The leader of the CSU (CDU's sister party) publicly demanded a reversal of the refugee policy and now Merkel has been uninvited to their conference. The parties are so close they don't compete with each other.

[Chuckles1188]

Apparently Mark Carney is thinking of resigning

[paddyor]

If someone pays their taxes and NI shoudldn't they be entitled to avail of state services etc? Child benefit, which isn't that much in the UK, in all likelihood ends up back in the UK economy fairly rapidly(excepting situtations where the immigrants move abroad/back home). Would tax credits not be a better example of unearned benefits?

It's whether they're paying enough tax and NI to cover the bill though, it's disengenuos to argue they're still contributing if the tax paid is less than the services offered.

Child benefit in the UK is a damm sight higher than it is in Lithuania or Poland, again it's a value judgement regarding cheaper services and food being worth the subsidy.

UK

2. What you'll get

There are 2 Child Benefit rates.
Who the allowance is for Rate (weekly)
Eldest or only child £20.70
Additional children £13.70 per child

Lithuania

a child being brought up or cared for in a family is granted and paid 0.75 of the basic amount (LTL 97.50) monthly from birth to the age of 2 if family income per person is less than 1.5 of state supported income (LTL 525);
a child being brought up or cared for in a family is granted and paid 0.4 of the basic amount (LTL 52) monthly from birth to the age of 2 if family income per person is less than 1.5 of state supported income (LTL 525);
when a child is aged between 2 and 7;
when a child is aged between 7 and 17 and living in a family where three or more children are being brought up or cared for.

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?cat ... &langId=en
http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/con ... GBP&To=LTL
£21 - 80 ltl

Poland

In Poland, child benefit is paid at a rate of £13.60 per month (68 Polish Zloty) for children aged 4 years and under, £18.20 per month (91 Polish Zloty) for children aged between 5 and 18 years and £19.60 per month (98 Polish Zloty) for children aged 18-24 who remain in education.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=child+be ... fit+poland

Have I read that wrong or are you a complete spoofer?It appears to me you icked the wrong 2 countries. Given the disparity in living costs between both places and the UK, child benefit goes a lot further living at home for Polish and Lithuanian nationals.

And they pay more than payroll taxes too. There's consumption taxes and the poll tax too.

[paddyor]

But the 55% (and growing) are very very dissatisfied. CDU are at 32% (polls), compared to 42% (2012 GE) what is unusual that a party that didn't exist until just before the last election are at around 15%. What is more worrying is that party, the far right AfD (Loons) have been giving the CDU a kicking all over the country.

Mecklenburg-Vorpommern state election (Merkel's own constituency) The AfD went from 0 seats to 18 pushing the CDU to 3rd place. And while not quite doing so well in other places have taken large chunks of seats everywhere. This is being pinned on Merkel's refugee policy and is a massive surge from a 3 year old party who are anti immigrant and anti EU. She is blaming Google and wants them to release their algo for scrutiny. And I've already listed the other event unfolding above. The shit only really started to hit the fan last month.

Breaking: Ruling party gets pummelled in local elections. In your glee to write a Brexit narrative that pleases you what you are missing is that 85% of Germans aren't voting for the "loons" as you called them. They're liable to hit the same hard ceiling that other similarly styled hard right parties hit.

[paddyor]

Oh dear

Exactly! I was clearly comparing country vs country, not country vs trading block to show they actually sell an amount of cars here they couldn't risk losing. Not, of course comparing the UK to the whole continent of Europe.

One of the biggest problems with Brexit, is that so many of the Brexiteers, while they have a vague idea of where they'd like to go, they don't seem to understand what the EU is and as such where they are.

[dr dre2]

Apparently Mark Carney is thinking of resigning

He may well turn out to be right overall, but at the very least at the moment he made himself look like a panicky, drama queen with his short term predictions being well off the mark. If his short sight is off by that much, what about his long sight? It's a bit drastic as he's clearly an intelligent, talented guy with a lot to offer. But if you appear all remorseful and make some brave and daunting predictions for a time frame. When the opposite happens within that frame you cant complain if people point and laugh.

[dr dre2]

But the 55% (and growing) are very very dissatisfied. CDU are at 32% (polls), compared to 42% (2012 GE) what is unusual that a party that didn't exist until just before the last election are at around 15%. What is more worrying is that party, the far right AfD (Loons) have been giving the CDU a kicking all over the country.

Mecklenburg-Vorpommern state election (Merkel's own constituency) The AfD went from 0 seats to 18 pushing the CDU to 3rd place. And while not quite doing so well in other places have taken large chunks of seats everywhere. This is being pinned on Merkel's refugee policy and is a massive surge from a 3 year old party who are anti immigrant and anti EU. She is blaming Google and wants them to release their algo for scrutiny. And I've already listed the other event unfolding above. The shit only really started to hit the fan last month.

Breaking: Ruling party gets pummelled in local elections. In your glee to write a Brexit narrative that pleases you what you are missing is that 85% of Germans aren't voting for the "loons" as you called them. They're liable to hit the same hard ceiling that other similarly styled hard right parties hit.

I'm not suggesting they get elected, nowhere have I suggested anything like it. In fact my thoughts on the matter have been made very clear in previous posts over the last few days. Chuckles can fill you in. I'm merely suggesting that Merkel is under pressure and taking it from all angles, she's yet to decide if she will even run again. She is taking the blame for their unsavoury rise. Though Geert Wilders is less than even money to smash through your ceiling.

[openclashXX]

EU complete the signing of CETA trade deal with Canada - odds on how close the Euro will get to parity with GBP in the next week?

[dr dre2]

Oh dear

Exactly! I was clearly comparing country vs country, not country vs trading block to show they actually sell an amount of cars here they couldn't risk losing. Not, of course comparing the UK to the whole continent of Europe.

One of the biggest problems with Brexit, is that so many of the Brexiteers, while they have a vague idea of where they'd like to go, they don't seem to understand what the EU is and as such where they are.

You don't even seem to be able to follow a narrative.

[fisgard792]

Oh dear

Exactly! I was clearly comparing country vs country, not country vs trading block to show they actually sell an amount of cars here they couldn't risk losing. Not, of course comparing the UK to the whole continent of Europe.

One of the biggest problems with Brexit, is that so many of the Brexiteers, while they have a vague idea of where they'd like to go, they don't seem to understand what the EU is and as such where they are.

its funny, one of the reasons, i changed my mind, is that i believe you cant change the inside from the outside, even if the people on the inside have no inclination to change. many other countries are peed off with the uk, as they feel they have lost any chance if changing the eu, now one of its biggest players has wrapped its hand in.

maybe we should give them your contact details, as you would be able put them right

[fisgard792]

EU complete the signing of CETA trade deal with Canada - odds on how close the Euro will get to parity with GBP in the next week?

another person who's going to make a fortune next week with his insight

[openclashXX]

EU complete the signing of CETA trade deal with Canada - odds on how close the Euro will get to parity with GBP in the next week?

another person who's going to make a fortune next week with his insight

do I have to explain how basic economics works to you?

[DragsterDriver]

Apparently Mark Carney is thinking of resigning

He should have kept out of the politics really, he was silly to pipe up with osbourne but tbf- like everybody he didn't see leave winning.

[bimboman]

If someone pays their taxes and NI shoudldn't they be entitled to avail of state services etc? Child benefit, which isn't that much in the UK, in all likelihood ends up back in the UK economy fairly rapidly(excepting situtations where the immigrants move abroad/back home). Would tax credits not be a better example of unearned benefits?

It's whether they're paying enough tax and NI to cover the bill though, it's disengenuos to argue they're still contributing if the tax paid is less than the services offered.

Child benefit in the UK is a damm sight higher than it is in Lithuania or Poland, again it's a value judgement regarding cheaper services and food being worth the subsidy.

UK

2. What you'll get

There are 2 Child Benefit rates.
Who the allowance is for Rate (weekly)
Eldest or only child £20.70
Additional children £13.70 per child

Lithuania

a child being brought up or cared for in a family is granted and paid 0.75 of the basic amount (LTL 97.50) monthly from birth to the age of 2 if family income per person is less than 1.5 of state supported income (LTL 525);
a child being brought up or cared for in a family is granted and paid 0.4 of the basic amount (LTL 52) monthly from birth to the age of 2 if family income per person is less than 1.5 of state supported income (LTL 525);
when a child is aged between 2 and 7;
when a child is aged between 7 and 17 and living in a family where three or more children are being brought up or cared for.

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?cat ... &langId=en
http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/con ... GBP&To=LTL
£21 - 80 ltl

Poland

In Poland, child benefit is paid at a rate of £13.60 per month (68 Polish Zloty) for children aged 4 years and under, £18.20 per month (91 Polish Zloty) for children aged between 5 and 18 years and £19.60 per month (98 Polish Zloty) for children aged 18-24 who remain in education.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=child+be ... fit+poland

Have I read that wrong or are you a complete spoofer?It appears to me you icked the wrong 2 countries. Given the disparity in living costs between both places and the UK, child benefit goes a lot further living at home for Polish and Lithuanian nationals.

And they pay more than payroll taxes too. There's consumption taxes and the poll tax too.

are you arguing that Poland and Lithuania pay the same monthly as the UK pays weekly ?

[openclashXX]

Apparently Mark Carney is thinking of resigning

He should have kept out of the politics really, he was silly to pipe up with osbourne but tbf- like everybody he didn't see leave winning.

Theresa May should keep her nose out of the BoE's affairs, more like

[bimboman]

EU complete the signing of CETA trade deal with Canada - odds on how close the Euro will get to parity with GBP in the next week?

another person who's going to make a fortune next week with his insight

do I have to explain how basic economics works to you?

https://www.ig.com/uk

[DragsterDriver]

If someone pays their taxes and NI shoudldn't they be entitled to avail of state services etc? Child benefit, which isn't that much in the UK, in all likelihood ends up back in the UK economy fairly rapidly(excepting situtations where the immigrants move abroad/back home). Would tax credits not be a better example of unearned benefits?

It's whether they're paying enough tax and NI to cover the bill though, it's disengenuos to argue they're still contributing if the tax paid is less than the services offered.

Child benefit in the UK is a damm sight higher than it is in Lithuania or Poland, again it's a value judgement regarding cheaper services and food being worth the subsidy.

UK

2. What you'll get

There are 2 Child Benefit rates.
Who the allowance is for Rate (weekly)
Eldest or only child £20.70
Additional children £13.70 per child

Lithuania

a child being brought up or cared for in a family is granted and paid 0.75 of the basic amount (LTL 97.50) monthly from birth to the age of 2 if family income per person is less than 1.5 of state supported income (LTL 525);
a child being brought up or cared for in a family is granted and paid 0.4 of the basic amount (LTL 52) monthly from birth to the age of 2 if family income per person is less than 1.5 of state supported income (LTL 525);
when a child is aged between 2 and 7;
when a child is aged between 7 and 17 and living in a family where three or more children are being brought up or cared for.

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?cat ... &langId=en
http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/con ... GBP&To=LTL
£21 - 80 ltl

Poland

In Poland, child benefit is paid at a rate of £13.60 per month (68 Polish Zloty) for children aged 4 years and under, £18.20 per month (91 Polish Zloty) for children aged between 5 and 18 years and £19.60 per month (98 Polish Zloty) for children aged 18-24 who remain in education.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=child+be ... fit+poland

Have I read that wrong or are you a complete spoofer?It appears to me you icked the wrong 2 countries. Given the disparity in living costs between both places and the UK, child benefit goes a lot further living at home for Polish and Lithuanian nationals.

And they pay more than payroll taxes too. There's consumption taxes and the poll tax too.

are you arguing that Poland and Lithuania pay the same monthly as the UK pays weekly ?

What about the £500 a month working family tax credits? They're basically a child benefit.

[DragsterDriver]

Apparently Mark Carney is thinking of resigning

He should have kept out of the politics really, he was silly to pipe up with osbourne but tbf- like everybody he didn't see leave winning.

Theresa May should keep her nose out of the BoE's affairs, more like

Carney politicised it, but then he was very close with osbourne. Best thing for everybody is carney to pipe down and get on with the job.

[C69]

Apparently Mark Carney is thinking of resigning

He should have kept out of the politics really, he was silly to pipe up with osbourne but tbf- like everybody he didn't see leave winning.

Theresa May should keep her nose out of the BoE's affairs, more like

Carney politicised it, but then he was very close with osbourne. Best thing for everybody is carney to pipe down and get on with the job.

And for May to get some self awareness and realise she is not up to running the country.

[bimboman]

If someone pays their taxes and NI shoudldn't they be entitled to avail of state services etc? Child benefit, which isn't that much in the UK, in all likelihood ends up back in the UK economy fairly rapidly(excepting situtations where the immigrants move abroad/back home). Would tax credits not be a better example of unearned benefits?

It's whether they're paying enough tax and NI to cover the bill though, it's disengenuos to argue they're still contributing if the tax paid is less than the services offered.

Child benefit in the UK is a damm sight higher than it is in Lithuania or Poland, again it's a value judgement regarding cheaper services and food being worth the subsidy.

UK

2. What you'll get

There are 2 Child Benefit rates.
Who the allowance is for Rate (weekly)
Eldest or only child £20.70
Additional children £13.70 per child

Lithuania

a child being brought up or cared for in a family is granted and paid 0.75 of the basic amount (LTL 97.50) monthly from birth to the age of 2 if family income per person is less than 1.5 of state supported income (LTL 525);
a child being brought up or cared for in a family is granted and paid 0.4 of the basic amount (LTL 52) monthly from birth to the age of 2 if family income per person is less than 1.5 of state supported income (LTL 525);
when a child is aged between 2 and 7;
when a child is aged between 7 and 17 and living in a family where three or more children are being brought up or cared for.

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?cat ... &langId=en
http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/con ... GBP&To=LTL
£21 - 80 ltl

Poland

In Poland, child benefit is paid at a rate of £13.60 per month (68 Polish Zloty) for children aged 4 years and under, £18.20 per month (91 Polish Zloty) for children aged between 5 and 18 years and £19.60 per month (98 Polish Zloty) for children aged 18-24 who remain in education.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=child+be ... fit+poland

Have I read that wrong or are you a complete spoofer?It appears to me you icked the wrong 2 countries. Given the disparity in living costs between both places and the UK, child benefit goes a lot further living at home for Polish and Lithuanian nationals.

And they pay more than payroll taxes too. There's consumption taxes and the poll tax too.

are you arguing that Poland and Lithuania pay the same monthly as the UK pays weekly ?

What about the £500 a month working family tax credits? They're basically a child benefit.

Indeed, but I'll stick with the basics of the weekly/monthly comparison, I might be missing something.

[bimboman]

Apparently Mark Carney is thinking of resigning

He should have kept out of the politics really, he was silly to pipe up with osbourne but tbf- like everybody he didn't see leave winning.

Theresa May should keep her nose out of the BoE's affairs, more like

Carney politicised it, but then he was very close with osbourne. Best thing for everybody is carney to pipe down and get on with the job.

And for May to get some self awareness and realise she is not up to running the country.

Schtick .....

[openclashXX]

Apparently Mark Carney is thinking of resigning

He should have kept out of the politics really, he was silly to pipe up with osbourne but tbf- like everybody he didn't see leave winning.

Theresa May should keep her nose out of the BoE's affairs, more like

Carney politicised it, but then he was very close with osbourne. Best thing for everybody is carney to pipe down and get on with the job.

I agree, the best thing is for Carney to do his job without someone like Theresa May who has no idea how a central bank works telling him how to do it