OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

All things Rugby

Whether you can or can't actually vote IRL, In, or Out

In
248
60%
Out
167
40%
 
Total votes: 415

User avatar
DragsterDriver
Posts: 26369
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Big Willi Style

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

OhNo wrote:
paddyor wrote:
bimboman wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:Would the french and germans go to war with russia in order to save lithuania?

Germany wouldn't even stop buying Russian gas.
Will British authorities ever stop turning a blind eye to Russian Assasins operating on British soil?
Will TSG ever name these supposedly smart Irish posters?
8)
ukjim
Posts: 2212
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by ukjim »

Rocketz wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
bimboman wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:Would the french and germans go to war with russia in order to save lithuania?

Germany wouldn't even stop buying Russian gas.
Yup- there is zero appetite in those countries for war....unlike ourselves and the yanks where the public seem to accept a bit of biff now and again. But russia would be 'big war' :uhoh:
if the russians want to get some kudos they need to reignite their space program
u focking wat m8?
User avatar
Rocketz
Posts: 4582
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: United States of Europe

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rocketz »

ukjim wrote:
Rocketz wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
bimboman wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:Would the french and germans go to war with russia in order to save lithuania?

Germany wouldn't even stop buying Russian gas.
Yup- there is zero appetite in those countries for war....unlike ourselves and the yanks where the public seem to accept a bit of biff now and again. But russia would be 'big war' :uhoh:
if the russians want to get some kudos they need to reignite their space program
u focking wat m8?
The Russians were superb in space.... Until they felt that conquering that shit hole Afghanistan was more important
User avatar
camroc1
Posts: 43362
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by camroc1 »

bimboman wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:Would the french and germans go to war with russia in order to save lithuania?

Germany wouldn't even stop buying Russian gas.
Woof, woof, woof.
jorwar
Posts: 2704
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by jorwar »

Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold, mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.

Mother is unassailable though. :?

"There are some who argue that the parties should collaborate on Brexit. But both the circumstances of the moment and Britain’s adversarial political traditions are the enemies of cooperation. For Mrs May to reach an accommodation with the opposition parties would involve the softening of her positions on crucial aspects of Brexit. That would risk igniting rage among the hard Brexiters. In so much as Mrs May has any support base left in her party, the hard Brexiters are it.

Some Labour MPs see a virtue in collaboration, both in the national interest and because they believe it would burnish Labour’s credibility and enhance its claim to be a government-in-waiting. Most Labour MPs incline to agree with the calculation of the party’s leadership that their advantage is best served by letting the Tories thrash about in this mire of their own making.

I’m not going to tell you how this will end because I don’t know. I think we can be fairly confident that we have not heard the last of being laughed at."

Andrew Rawnsley in the Observer.
User avatar
easyray
Posts: 3953
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Still at the end of the world

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by easyray »

Gospel wrote:
Petej wrote:Not just the UK politicians as i don't think tax haven owned tabloid rags should escape blame.
Newspapers tend to reflect the views of the readership. They're pedalling confirmation bias.
Except with the Sun and Mail. They do their best to sway their readership that their opinions are the right ones and the views of the majority. You only have to read some of the comments on here, to know they are succeeding with some people.
jorwar
Posts: 2704
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by jorwar »

easyray wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Petej wrote:Not just the UK politicians as i don't think tax haven owned tabloid rags should escape blame.
Newspapers tend to reflect the views of the readership. They're pedalling confirmation bias.
Except with the Sun and Mail. They do their best to sway their readership that their opinions are the right ones and the views of the majority. You only have to read some of the comments on here, to know they are succeeding with some people.
Propaganda is the name of the game. And rags like the Sun, Express and Mail have stuck to the game plan.
Signs that they are losing it. Circulations are plummeting and the saps who lap up their shit are dying off. :thumbup:
User avatar
Rocketz
Posts: 4582
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: United States of Europe

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rocketz »

Chagos Islands: Mauritius sovereignty dispute reveals Brexit Britain's loss of global influence

Germany, Italy and France abstain from UN vote
UK has lost a UN vote on its claim to the Chagos Islands after several EU countries abstained.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 04066.html

The yanks have stated they don't care who they pay rent to
La soule
Posts: 9752
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by La soule »

Rocketz wrote:Chagos Islands: Mauritius sovereignty dispute reveals Brexit Britain's loss of global influence

Germany, Italy and France abstain from UN vote
UK has lost a UN vote on its claim to the Chagos Islands after several EU countries abstained.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 04066.html

The yanks have stated they don't care who they pay rent to

More importantly, what did Kenya vote for?
User avatar
SamShark
Posts: 20522
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

David Davis on Marr....FFS even the Brexiters are saying it might go tits up.
Davis also said that he could not be “100% sure” that Britain would secure a Brexit deal at the end of its talks with the EU27, insisting that he never claimed it would be an easy process.

He admitted the Tories had been dealt a “different hand” after being stripped of their majority in the general election.

Asked if he was absolutely sure that there would be a deal at the end of the two-year process, Davis replied: “I’m pretty sure, I’m not 100% sure. It is a negotiation.”

Pressed on the issue, he said there would be “a deal” but added: “I can’t be certain” that it would involve the free trade deal and customs agreement Britain was asking for.
User avatar
SamShark
Posts: 20522
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

User avatar
paddyor
Posts: 19427
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:51 pm

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by paddyor »

SamShark wrote:David Davis on Marr....FFS even the Brexiters are saying it might go tits up.
Davis also said that he could not be “100% sure” that Britain would secure a Brexit deal at the end of its talks with the EU27, insisting that he never claimed it would be an easy process.

He admitted the Tories had been dealt a “different hand” after being stripped of their majority in the general election.

Asked if he was absolutely sure that there would be a deal at the end of the two-year process, Davis replied: “I’m pretty sure, I’m not 100% sure. It is a negotiation.”

Pressed on the issue, he said there would be “a deal” but added: “I can’t be certain” that it would involve the free trade deal and customs agreement Britain was asking for.
He ind of did, though tbf, he didn't understand what he was getting into
David Davis‏Verified account @DavidDavisMP 26 May 2016

After #Brexit, the pressures on the countries making up the EU will be different. Free trade with Britain is in all their interests
I like haggis
Posts: 5048
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:54 pm

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by I like haggis »

SamShark wrote:David Davis on Marr....FFS even the Brexiters are saying it might go tits up.
Davis also said that he could not be “100% sure” that Britain would secure a Brexit deal at the end of its talks with the EU27, insisting that he never claimed it would be an easy process.

He admitted the Tories had been dealt a “different hand” after being stripped of their majority in the general election.

Asked if he was absolutely sure that there would be a deal at the end of the two-year process, Davis replied: “I’m pretty sure, I’m not 100% sure. It is a negotiation.”

Pressed on the issue, he said there would be “a deal” but added: “I can’t be certain” that it would involve the free trade deal and customs agreement Britain was asking for.
We'll hear a lot more of 'nobody ever said it would be easy' as they realise how badly things are going despite them all making out it would be easy.
Silver
Posts: 9980
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Silver »

Zico wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:You vastly overestimate Russia's military capacity. This isn't a Cold War era superpower we're talking about.
It's easy to be flipant about Russian capability as the furthest EU country from the threat. Estonia has barely more military capability than Ireland and I wouldn't fancy our chances if Iceland invaded. :uhoh:

No single country in Europe has the means to put up reasonable opposition to a Russian invasion, hence NATO and relying on the US.

That's gone now. Bubblecoward has pulled that defensive certainty. European countries must heavilly invest in a collective military defence to protect against Crimea style land grabs by Russia.
Russia doesn't need to use their military. They will just use mind control as they have on the Donald. and hack all of the voting machines etc (as per the democrats and the fake-news media)

and Russia has enough land and resources anyway but the evil genius Vlad just wants the lot. He's just too smart and cunning so resistance is futile.
User avatar
easyray
Posts: 3953
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Still at the end of the world

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by easyray »

I like haggis wrote:
SamShark wrote:David Davis on Marr....FFS even the Brexiters are saying it might go tits up.
Davis also said that he could not be “100% sure” that Britain would secure a Brexit deal at the end of its talks with the EU27, insisting that he never claimed it would be an easy process.

He admitted the Tories had been dealt a “different hand” after being stripped of their majority in the general election.

Asked if he was absolutely sure that there would be a deal at the end of the two-year process, Davis replied: “I’m pretty sure, I’m not 100% sure. It is a negotiation.”

Pressed on the issue, he said there would be “a deal” but added: “I can’t be certain” that it would involve the free trade deal and customs agreement Britain was asking for.
We'll hear a lot more of 'nobody ever said it would be easy' as they realise how badly things are going despite them all making out it would be easy.
Strange we do not hear from the arch-brexiter of this here parish; one Dr Dre. I kind of miss his insane ranting about how if they don't give the UK its cake and let us eat it, the EU would collapse because Britain was more powerful than the EU. And also that they needed us more than we need them.

Speaking of arch-brexiters, I notice Trance has gone a little quiet. Before the election he was telling us what a strong leader May was, and how she would wipe the floor with the EU heads of states. Reality must finally have caught up with them.
User avatar
DragsterDriver
Posts: 26369
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Big Willi Style

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Forgot about Dre :)


(Think he's on a ban?)
kagamusha
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:47 pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by kagamusha »

Hellraiser wrote:
Zico wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:You honestly haven't a clue.

And neither do you. That's my point. I've never seen the EU's frontier with Russia but I know some Estonians so I'd rely on their opinions of the reality of the situation. They're seriously worried that the West/EU/US will turn its back if Russia tries invading and seizing strategically important sites there.

But hey who cares about a pissant country like that eh. :roll:

You still don't get it. Russia could not hold anything that it would try to take in the West. Putin isn't a fool, he knows what is achievable militarily and what isn't. The Baltic States will not be invaded as it would be self-defeating. Far preferable is a policy of intimidation and cyber attacks to keep them unstable and subject to Russia influence/pressure.
Totally agree with this view. To invade and conquer would be easy, to hold nearly impossible.

A constant stream of body bags would do for Vlad as it did for many before him.

Interestingly this is probably the main argument as to why the nuclear missile subs are a waste of money.
User avatar
paddyor
Posts: 19427
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:51 pm

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by paddyor »

I like haggis wrote:
SamShark wrote:David Davis on Marr....FFS even the Brexiters are saying it might go tits up.
Davis also said that he could not be “100% sure” that Britain would secure a Brexit deal at the end of its talks with the EU27, insisting that he never claimed it would be an easy process.

He admitted the Tories had been dealt a “different hand” after being stripped of their majority in the general election.

Asked if he was absolutely sure that there would be a deal at the end of the two-year process, Davis replied: “I’m pretty sure, I’m not 100% sure. It is a negotiation.”

Pressed on the issue, he said there would be “a deal” but added: “I can’t be certain” that it would involve the free trade deal and customs agreement Britain was asking for.
We'll hear a lot more of 'nobody ever said it would be easy' as they realise how badly things are going despite them all making out it would be easy.
Good thread on Davis here.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/sta ... 8007822336

I like this part.

Image
User avatar
paddyor
Posts: 19427
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:51 pm

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by paddyor »

DragsterDriver wrote:Forgot about Dre :)


(Think he's on a ban?)
Forgot the muthafuckas part.

(Yes Jessica got perma'd for legal threats)
User avatar
Hellraiser
Posts: 14870
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Sarnath in the land of Mnar

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Hellraiser »

paddyor wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:Forgot about Dre :)


(Think he's on a ban?)
Forgot the muthafuckas part.

(Yes Jessica got perma'd for legal threats)

Link?
User avatar
SamShark
Posts: 20522
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

Another person trying to frustrate the will of the people with unpatriotic facts.
User avatar
Rinkals
Posts: 17659
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rinkals »

I think Rocketz point about Britain's diminishing global influence bares some examination. The last time Britain traded outside the European Union the market was significantly different.

What can Britain possibly offer which cannot be provided by China at half the price?

I know that sounds like I'm trolling, but honestly, I can't think of anything. Maybe someone else can?

Edit: just thought of something: oil! Better hope the Scots don't seek to secede.
User avatar
SamShark
Posts: 20522
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

Rinkals wrote:I think Rocketz point about Britain's diminishing global influence bares some examination. The last time Britain traded outside the European Union the market was significantly different.

What can Britain possibly offer which cannot be provided by China at half the price?

I know that sounds like I'm trolling, but honestly, I can't think of anything. Maybe someone else can?

Edit: just thought of something: oil! Better hope the Scots don't seek to secede.
Can you please not make this about "Rocketz point" FFS. He posts 10000000 articles a day, most of them on "points" made days before by someone else.

Then you don't have to use your own trolling disclaimer.

Of course Britain's global influence is diminishing - it's clear that we have thrown away some good will as well as the ability to provide a link between the US and the EU.

For the time being we'll still have influence, but I can't think of any way Brexit will enhance it, and Brexiters are not known for their honesty and common sense, so you can also expect their "we'll immediately have amazing trade deals with the whole world" to filter away to "maybe some day we'll have a few trade deals".

Make your own points, don't examine Rocketz, FFS.
User avatar
Rinkals
Posts: 17659
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rinkals »

SamShark wrote:
Rinkals wrote:I think Rocketz point about Britain's diminishing global influence bares some examination. The last time Britain traded outside the European Union the market was significantly different.

What can Britain possibly offer which cannot be provided by China at half the price?

I know that sounds like I'm trolling, but honestly, I can't think of anything. Maybe someone else can?

Edit: just thought of something: oil! Better hope the Scots don't seek to secede.
Can you please not make this about "Rocketz point" FFS. He posts 10000000 articles a day, most of them on "points" made days before by someone else.

Then you don't have to use your own trolling disclaimer.

Of course Britain's global influence is diminishing - it's clear that we have thrown away some good will as well as the ability to provide a link between the US and the EU.

For the time being we'll still have influence, but I can't think of any way Brexit will enhance it, and Brexiters are not known for their honesty and common sense, so you can also expect their "we'll immediately have amazing trade deals with the whole world" to filter away to "maybe some day we'll have a few trade deals".

Make your own points, don't examine Rocketz, FFS.
Eh?

I'm not endorsing his post; just pointing out that he is probably correct in saying that Britain is no longer the power it was 40 years ago. I am aware that he is talking about political influence but I was thinking about their position regarding World Trade.

Anyway, it got me thinking: is there a commodity (apart from oil) that Britain can trade? Competitively, in today's market?

I always thought that Brexit was a dumb move, but the more you think about it, the dumber it gets.
Rugby2023
Posts: 12290
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:05 pm

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

SamShark wrote:David Davis on Marr....FFS even the Brexiters are saying it might go tits up.
Davis also said that he could not be “100% sure” that Britain would secure a Brexit deal at the end of its talks with the EU27, insisting that he never claimed it would be an easy process.

He admitted the Tories had been dealt a “different hand” after being stripped of their majority in the general election.

Asked if he was absolutely sure that there would be a deal at the end of the two-year process, Davis replied: “I’m pretty sure, I’m not 100% sure. It is a negotiation.”

Pressed on the issue, he said there would be “a deal” but added: “I can’t be certain” that it would involve the free trade deal and customs agreement Britain was asking for.
Did you happen to catch the programme? When he talked about a "different hand" he was saying he told the EU the UK wasn't in a position to concede any more in negotiations because of the lack of a big majority :) He reckons Barnier is a constructive, pragmatic sort and is confident of a deal but of course nothing is certain.
Rugby2023
Posts: 12290
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:05 pm

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

I think this was of interest to Rocketz some time ago, although perhaps not the conclusion he was hoping for :) , Times today:
Spoiler: show
Image
Apols for the size of the jpg.
Last edited by Rugby2023 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Gavin Duffy
Posts: 17023
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Gavin Duffy »

What are they not going to be conceding on, then?
derriz
Posts: 619
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by derriz »

Rugby2023 wrote:I think this was of interest to Rocketz some time ago, although perhaps not the conclusion he was hoping for :) , Times today:
Spoiler: show
Image
Apols for the size of the jpg.
That clip suggests that less foreign money is being invested in the UK while UK companies see more opportunities for their capital investments abroad. That would not be good news for the UK economy which relies on inward capital flow to cover its trade deficit.
User avatar
Rinkals
Posts: 17659
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rinkals »

derriz wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:I think this was of interest to Rocketz some time ago, although perhaps not the conclusion he was hoping for :) , Times today:
Spoiler: show
Image
Apols for the size of the jpg.
That clip suggests that less foreign money is being invested in the UK while UK companies see more opportunities for their capital investments abroad. That would not be good news for the UK economy which relies on inward capital flow to cover its trade deficit.
Yes.

It did seem an odd thing to crow about.
Adetroy
Posts: 1365
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Adetroy »

The really concerning thing for the British is that so desperate will post brexit Britian be to get these fabled trade deals, that in reality, she will be at the mercy of countries like China and India who will drive a very hard bargain knowing that for the British government the trade deal is both politically and economically crucial ("those sunny uplands"), if only to prove the validity of the claims made about leaving the EU in the first place.
Rugby2023
Posts: 12290
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:05 pm

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

derriz wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:I think this was of interest to Rocketz some time ago, although perhaps not the conclusion he was hoping for :) , Times today:
Spoiler: show
Image
Apols for the size of the jpg.
That clip suggests that less foreign money is being invested in the UK while UK companies see more opportunities for their capital investments abroad. That would not be good news for the UK economy which relies on inward capital flow to cover its trade deficit.
There doesn't appear to be any slowing of investment from overseas, if anything the opposite.
In a vote of confidence in Brexit Britain, UK FDI inflows soared to $253.7bn (£197bn) in 2016, up from £33bn the previous year, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). This represents the highest level of inflows since 2005.
Last edited by Rugby2023 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
camroc1
Posts: 43362
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by camroc1 »

derriz wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:I think this was of interest to Rocketz some time ago, although perhaps not the conclusion he was hoping for :) , Times today:
Spoiler: show
Image
Apols for the size of the jpg.
That clip suggests that less foreign money is being invested in the UK while UK companies see more opportunities for their capital investments abroad. That would not be good news for the UK economy which relies on inward capital flow to cover its trade deficit.
The question is, in the light of a seemingly hard Brexit, why are UK companies buying non UK companies ?
Rugby2023
Posts: 12290
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:05 pm

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

Adetroy wrote:The really concerning thing for the British is that so desperate will post brexit Britian be to get these fabled trade deals, that in reality, she will be at the mercy of countries like China and India who will drive a very hard bargain knowing that for the British government the trade deal is both politically and economically crucial ("those sunny uplands"), if only to prove the validity of the claims made about leaving the EU in the first place.
Not so much fabled any longer. Talks with Japan & US set to begin. And of course, all being well, trade talks with EU in October. :)
jorwar
Posts: 2704
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by jorwar »

Mathew D'Ancona in the Grauniad thinks the 'cut immigration' rallying call for swivel-eyed Tory faithful is nothing but a damp fart:

"...the persistent distinction drawn between “hard” and “soft” Brexit seems to me a rhetorical device rather than a reflection of reality. A better way of framing the argument is to ask whether our negotiators’ priority will be to reduce immigration; or to protect prosperity and jobs.

Identity versus economy? Xenophobia versus trade? This is a real choice and an unavoidable one, whatever some Brexiteers may say about cake retention and consumption.

There is no doubt where Hammond stands in this debate. As he put it last week, reinforcing what he has long said: “When the British people voted last June, they did not vote to become poorer or less secure. They did vote to leave the EU. And we will leave the EU. But it must be done in a way that works for Britain. In a way that prioritises British jobs, and underpins Britain’s prosperity.”

Less appreciated is the pragmatism of Davis’s position. Routinely caricatured as a hardline rightwinger, he is, in fact, fully aware of the economic risks of insufficiently porous borders. He grasps that his task is to translate a fundamentally emotional decision – the vote for Brexit – into a technically viable transnational structure. Pressed on the need for extra workers in particular regions and sectors, he has said: “Whatever we do has to be flexible enough to meet these requirements.”


Even Bellend Boris and Liar Fox are soft on immigration, the raw material of modern economic success.

It's a pity their leader Mother is obsessed by bringing it down to the tens of thousands. It's like she's Dot Cotton trying to give up fags.
Rugby2023
Posts: 12290
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:05 pm

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

jorwar wrote:Mathew D'Ancona in the Grauniad thinks the 'cut immigration' rallying call for swivel-eyed Tory faithful is nothing but a damp fart:

"...the persistent distinction drawn between “hard” and “soft” Brexit seems to me a rhetorical device rather than a reflection of reality. A better way of framing the argument is to ask whether our negotiators’ priority will be to reduce immigration; or to protect prosperity and jobs.

Identity versus economy? Xenophobia versus trade? This is a real choice and an unavoidable one, whatever some Brexiteers may say about cake retention and consumption.

There is no doubt where Hammond stands in this debate. As he put it last week, reinforcing what he has long said: “When the British people voted last June, they did not vote to become poorer or less secure. They did vote to leave the EU. And we will leave the EU. But it must be done in a way that works for Britain. In a way that prioritises British jobs, and underpins Britain’s prosperity.”

Less appreciated is the pragmatism of Davis’s position. Routinely caricatured as a hardline rightwinger, he is, in fact, fully aware of the economic risks of insufficiently porous borders. He grasps that his task is to translate a fundamentally emotional decision – the vote for Brexit – into a technically viable transnational structure. Pressed on the need for extra workers in particular regions and sectors, he has said: “Whatever we do has to be flexible enough to meet these requirements.”

Even Bellend Boris and Liar Fox are soft on immigration, the raw material of modern economic success.

It's a pity their leader Mother is obsessed by bringing it down to the tens of thousands. It's like she's Dot Cotton trying to give up fags.
The UK has just experienced the sharpest population rise in 70 years jorwar. It's unsustainable.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40372533

The author is talking about immigration as the raw material of modern economic success yet the mid to late 90s were a period of economic prosperity without such high levels of immigration.
jorwar
Posts: 2704
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by jorwar »

Rugby2023 wrote:
jorwar wrote:Mathew D'Ancona in the Grauniad thinks the 'cut immigration' rallying call for swivel-eyed Tory faithful is nothing but a damp fart:

"...the persistent distinction drawn between “hard” and “soft” Brexit seems to me a rhetorical device rather than a reflection of reality. A better way of framing the argument is to ask whether our negotiators’ priority will be to reduce immigration; or to protect prosperity and jobs.

Identity versus economy? Xenophobia versus trade? This is a real choice and an unavoidable one, whatever some Brexiteers may say about cake retention and consumption.

There is no doubt where Hammond stands in this debate. As he put it last week, reinforcing what he has long said: “When the British people voted last June, they did not vote to become poorer or less secure. They did vote to leave the EU. And we will leave the EU. But it must be done in a way that works for Britain. In a way that prioritises British jobs, and underpins Britain’s prosperity.”

Less appreciated is the pragmatism of Davis’s position. Routinely caricatured as a hardline rightwinger, he is, in fact, fully aware of the economic risks of insufficiently porous borders. He grasps that his task is to translate a fundamentally emotional decision – the vote for Brexit – into a technically viable transnational structure. Pressed on the need for extra workers in particular regions and sectors, he has said: “Whatever we do has to be flexible enough to meet these requirements.”

Even Bellend Boris and Liar Fox are soft on immigration, the raw material of modern economic success.

It's a pity their leader Mother is obsessed by bringing it down to the tens of thousands. It's like she's Dot Cotton trying to give up fags.
The UK has just experienced the sharpest population rise in 70 years jorwar. It's unsustainable.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40372533

The author is talking about immigration as the raw material of modern economic success yet the mid to late 90s were a period of economic prosperity without such high levels of immigration.
We were still bathing in Scottish oil then.
derriz
Posts: 619
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by derriz »

Rugby2023 wrote:
derriz wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:I think this was of interest to Rocketz some time ago, although perhaps not the conclusion he was hoping for :) , Times today:
Spoiler: show
Image
Apols for the size of the jpg.
That clip suggests that less foreign money is being invested in the UK while UK companies see more opportunities for their capital investments abroad. That would not be good news for the UK economy which relies on inward capital flow to cover its trade deficit.
There doesn't appear to be any slowing of investment from overseas, if anything the opposite.
In a vote of confidence in Brexit Britain, UK FDI inflows soared to $253.7bn (£197bn) in 2016, up from £33bn the previous year, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). This represents the highest level of inflows since 2005.
The clip from the Times that you posted suggests that it's a positive thing for the UK economy that foreign companies are no longer buying UK ones. This suggestion is not only wrong, it's the opposite of the truth.

I'm not sure when that story was posted in the Times?

I googled it and found FDI numbers for 2016. In that year, indeed UK FDI soared. But this was due to Anheuser-Busch InBev acquiring SABMiller - i.e. foreigners buying a UK company. Like I said, this is good news for the UK economy while your times story suggests that foreign companies NOT buying UK ones is good news.
User avatar
eldanielfire
Posts: 32732
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by eldanielfire »

Calculus wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:For a glimpse of what kind of PM Boris would be, take a look at this excellent article about one of his pet projects as London mayor:
Regardless of what the article is saying, the new route masters are excellent buses and the stairs at the back have made them friendlier and a nice environment as you don't get masses of "youth" hanging in one section anymore constantly.

Let us not forget that they were done to replace Livingstone's bendy buses which were a disaster and bloody dangerous for everyone else on the road. the bendy buses are such a bad idea Swansea had to produce £10 million of road works so they could be used safely then scrapped the bus because of the cost.
Absolute f**king bollocks. They are horrendous inside, the avalanche of criticism from commuters wasn’t a myth. Hot, cramped, small windows that don’t open – have you actually been inside one?
Yes, I take the 137 twice every day. Also they are far bigger then the old bus, have more seats and the windows are no smaller then every other brand of bus currently in London. They also have air con. They are great. Most of the criticism doesn't match the reality and was made as anti-Boris protests.
User avatar
theo
Posts: 13023
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by theo »

Rinkals wrote:I think Rocketz point about Britain's diminishing global influence bares some examination. The last time Britain traded outside the European Union the market was significantly different.

What can Britain possibly offer which cannot be provided by China at half the price?

I know that sounds like I'm trolling, but honestly, I can't think of anything. Maybe someone else can?

Edit: just thought of something: oil! Better hope the Scots don't seek to secede.
High end goods (cars/fashion/alcohol etc), pharmaceuticals, IT and software, financial services, R&D.
mikerob
Posts: 1684
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by mikerob »

Adetroy wrote:The really concerning thing for the British is that so desperate will post brexit Britian be to get these fabled trade deals, that in reality, she will be at the mercy of countries like China and India who will drive a very hard bargain knowing that for the British government the trade deal is both politically and economically crucial ("those sunny uplands"), if only to prove the validity of the claims made about leaving the EU in the first place.
In the case of India anyway, any deal will be linked to relaxation of migration restrictions, both for family and working visas. The irony being for working visas, a lot of these positions are likely to be people working for Indian companies on outsourcing arrangements from UK companies to India...

What would the UK get? Reduced tariffs on Scotch whisky? Some financial services work? I'm struggling to see much that will generate lots more jobs in the UK.
Locked