OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

TranceNRG · Post by **TranceNRG** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:48 am

So it seems quite a few conservative ministers who are in the camp don't actually like the EU but only In the camp because they don't want to go against PM or because leaving EU might be too much trouble. No one seems to actually like the EU much.

Good on Cameron for letting his MPs campaign for either camp.

C69 · Post by **C69** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:51 am

TranceNRG wrote:So it seems quite a few conservative ministers who are in the camp don't actually like the EU but only In the camp because they don't want to go against PM or because leaving EU might be too much trouble. No one seems to actually like the EU much.

Good on Cameron for letting his MPs campaign for either camp.

He had no option.

Anonymous 1 · Post by **Anonymous 1** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:53 am

TranceNRG wrote:So it seems quite a few conservative ministers who are in the camp don't actually like the EU but only In the camp because they don't want to go against PM or because leaving EU might be too much trouble. No one seems to actually like the EU much.

Good on Cameron for letting his MPs campaign for either camp.

Do you think he could have whipped them ?

C69 · Post by **C69** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:54 am

Anonymous. wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:So it seems quite a few conservative ministers who are in the camp don't actually like the EU but only In the camp because they don't want to go against PM or because leaving EU might be too much trouble. No one seems to actually like the EU much.

Good on Cameron for letting his MPs campaign for either camp.
Do you think he could have whipped them ?

Only if they dressed up as pigs

Anonymous 1 · Post by **Anonymous 1** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:57 am

TranceNRG wrote:What's the significance of 23rd of June? Why did Cameron pick that date and not a weekend date?

People might get confused with Britain's Got Talent

iarmhiman · Post by **iarmhiman** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:11 am

Cameron is going to need the young vote as all the old farts will vote to leave.

He should have put that vote on a Saturday.

Duff Paddy · Post by **Duff Paddy** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:16 am

iarmhiman wrote:Cameron is going to need the young vote as all the old farts will vote to leave.

He should have put that vote on a Saturday.

Young people don't vote.
Fear is the best motivator - just threaten the economy and the city and they'll come round.

As an aside it wouldn't be ideal for us but it would also create an opportunity as the only anglophone country in the EU, we'd definitely pinch a few jobs.

iarmhiman · Post by **iarmhiman** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:18 am

The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.

Saint · Post by **Saint** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:19 am

iarmhiman wrote:Cameron is going to need the young vote as all the old farts will vote to leave.

He should have put that vote on a Saturday.

He'd antagonise a large % of the population who would accuse him of abandoning British tradition in order to appease the EU.

Saint · Post by **Saint** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:20 am

iarmhiman wrote:The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.

What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?

iarmhiman · Post by **iarmhiman** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:22 am

Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.
What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?

Ireland won't agree to that.

Duff Paddy · Post by **Duff Paddy** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:22 am

Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.
What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?

As far as ludicrous hypotheticals go - when Scotland finally votes for independence and then applies to join the EU on their own.

SamShark · Post by **SamShark** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:24 am

Someone in the EU should get involved in some top trolling and say that in the event of Brexit they would make it really easy for an independent Scotland to join the EU

(vs last time it was suggested it would be really hard, to put off the likes of Catalonia)

Sefton · Post by **Sefton** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:25 am

Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.
What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?

What interest?

Saint · Post by **Saint** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:25 am

iarmhiman wrote:
Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.
What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?
Ireland won't agree to that.

Do you get a veto on that?

Saint · Post by **Saint** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:26 am

Sefton wrote:
Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.
What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?
What interest?

Well, mine, really

Sefton · Post by **Sefton** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:27 am

Saint wrote:
Sefton wrote:
Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.
What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?
What interest?
Well, mine, really

So nothing rational then.

Duff Paddy · Post by **Duff Paddy** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:27 am

Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.
What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?
Ireland won't agree to that.
Do you get a veto on that?

A veto on what?

Petros · Post by **Petros** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:27 am

If the Brexiters win what is the impact on all the Brit OAPs in Spain? And how many of them are there?

iarmhiman · Post by **iarmhiman** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:28 am

Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.
What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?
Ireland won't agree to that.
Do you get a veto on that?

Ireland would say it would bring back large scare terrorism to that part of Europe. Way too risky. Does the UK want to go down that road again?

Saint · Post by **Saint** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:28 am

Sefton wrote:
Saint wrote:
Sefton wrote:
Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.
What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?
What interest?
Well, mine, really
So nothing rational then.

I;m curious. Sooner or later the EU (probably Germany) is going to insist that EU borders are enforced far more rigorously than they are currently

Sefton · Post by **Sefton** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:29 am

iarmhiman wrote:
Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:The out vote saying they can seal borders? Total fabrication

Unless they want to reintroduce border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland. See how that goes down.
What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?
Ireland won't agree to that.
Do you get a veto on that?
Ireland would say it would bring back large scare terrorism to that part of Europe. Way too risky. Does the UK want to go down that road again?

Can we make sure DD is on your side before we do so?

Saint · Post by **Saint** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:29 am

Petros wrote:If the Brexiters win what is the impact on all the Brit OAPs in Spain? And how many of them are there?

Who knows?

Duff Paddy · Post by **Duff Paddy** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:29 am

Petros wrote:If the Brexiters win what is the impact on all the Brit OAPs in Spain? And how many of them are there?

Would be a bit messy getting all your east end gangsters back from Marbella alright.

iarmhiman · Post by **iarmhiman** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:30 am

Petros wrote:If the Brexiters win what is the impact on all the Brit OAPs in Spain? And how many of them are there?

I don't see a big change there. Spain would go mental if the EU told them to bring in controls for Brit expats.

iarmhiman · Post by **iarmhiman** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:32 am

Sefton wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
Saint wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
Saint wrote:

What would happen if the EU insisted that their borders need to be locked down out of interest?
Ireland won't agree to that.
Do you get a veto on that?
Ireland would say it would bring back large scare terrorism to that part of Europe. Way too risky. Does the UK want to go down that road again?
Can we make sure DD is on your side before we do so?

fudge that.

bimboman · Post by **bimboman** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:34 am

Saint wrote:
Petros wrote:If the Brexiters win what is the impact on all the Brit OAPs in Spain? And how many of them are there?
Who knows?

Why would anything happen to them? There's nothing "eu" about their residencies..

Sefton · Post by **Sefton** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:34 am

The answer is obvious, no need for a border lockdown if we can just palm the Nordies off on to the Micks as part of our Brexit agreement.

SamShark · Post by **SamShark** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:37 am

Petros wrote:If the Brexiters win what is the impact on all the Brit OAPs in Spain? And how many of them are there?

It will be impossible to get a decent full-English and watch Eastenders when on holiday in Benidorm.

Vote remain!

Saint · Post by **Saint** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:38 am

bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
Petros wrote:If the Brexiters win what is the impact on all the Brit OAPs in Spain? And how many of them are there?
Who knows?

Why would anything happen to them? There's nothing "eu" about their residencies..

There is actually. Their right to remain without any supporting paperwork is predicated entirely on the UK and Spain both being part of the EU. Presumably there would need to be some sort of residency visa required if Brexit were to happen.

bimboman · Post by **bimboman** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:39 am

Saint wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
Petros wrote:If the Brexiters win what is the impact on all the Brit OAPs in Spain? And how many of them are there?
Who knows?

Why would anything happen to them? There's nothing "eu" about their residencies..
There is actually. Their right to remain without any supporting paperwork is predicated entirely on the UK and Spain both being part of the EU. Presumably there would need to be some sort of residency visa required if Brexit were to happen.

Like their local council registrations ?

Duff Paddy · Post by **Duff Paddy** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:43 am

Bimbo you're assuming any brexit would entail an automatic downgrading to EEA status - has this been confirmed?

TranceNRG · Post by **TranceNRG** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:44 am

I guess most people want to see EU being about free trade rather than political union. I doubt that will EVER happen so even if we remain in the EU, it's still going to be shit and a huge part of the population won't be happy.

Also I don't think we'll be able to get significant reforms like the ones achieved by Cameron unless there was a threat of a powerful nation like UK leaving the EU. Certainly if there was no threat, most the EU leaders would just dismiss them. So I am sceptical about future reforms well any meaningful ones.

Saint · Post by **Saint** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:45 am

bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
Petros wrote:If the Brexiters win what is the impact on all the Brit OAPs in Spain? And how many of them are there?
Who knows?

Why would anything happen to them? There's nothing "eu" about their residencies..
There is actually. Their right to remain without any supporting paperwork is predicated entirely on the UK and Spain both being part of the EU. Presumably there would need to be some sort of residency visa required if Brexit were to happen.

Like their local council registrations ?

What?

Assuming that they stayed UK nationals, and weren't dual citizen/passport qualified, then they would no longer be EU citizens, and would have to apply for an EU residency visa of some sort in order to remain resident in the EU. Local council registration wouldn't even comeinto the equation.

It could well be that this would be a massive formality, but it might not

Saint · Post by **Saint** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:45 am

Duff Paddy wrote:Bimbo you're assuming any brexit would entail an automatic downgrading to EEA status - has this been confirmed?

If that's what he's assuming then there's absolutely no confirmation of this anywhere

TranceNRG · Post by **TranceNRG** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:46 am

Duff Paddy wrote:Bimbo you're assuming any brexit would entail an automatic downgrading to EEA status - has this been confirmed?

Can UK restrict free movement and still be part of the EEA? We should have free movement between countries of similar living standards. That way you know you are not going to get millions of uncontrolled migration.

iarmhiman · Post by **iarmhiman** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:51 am

I'll tell you who will be delighted in the event of a Brexit: Vladimir Putin.

It will kick start the break up of the European union and weaken Europe, something that has been a strategic policy of the Russians second to splitting good relations between USA and Europe.

Petros · Post by **Petros** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:12 pm

bimboman wrote:
Saint wrote:
Petros wrote:If the Brexiters win what is the impact on all the Brit OAPs in Spain? And how many of them are there?
Who knows?

Why would anything happen to them? There's nothing "eu" about their residencies..

Health cover?

bimboman · Post by **bimboman** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:33 pm

My point is there's nothing inheritantly from our member ship that allows our Brits to live in Spain, plenty did before we joined he EU, as there are plenty of Brits living in Florida or Switzerland. There would possibly be a differant registration system, some taxes to pay for health insurance, but it wouldn't be dramatic.

SamShark · Post by **SamShark** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:36 pm

This interviewer on Sunday politics is a pain in the arse - tone it down FFS.

Grayling's argument that we will get what we want after leaving doesnt wash with me. I fully accept that nobody is going to spite theselves but they wont give us an easy ride and will screw us if possible.

The whole "out" argument is that the European bureaucrats wont let us do what we want now. Why will they let us do what we want when we've just taken a dump on their EU.

Whether you can or can't actually vote IRL, In, or Out