Planet Rugby Forum

haunch wrote:Presumably she will be standing on a manifesto of leaving the eu. But she would have to feel she couldn't win the vote now and that extra 30 votes wont make much difference without removing the remainer mps.

Rugby2023 wrote:

haunch wrote:Well the riots would be over a fair democratic vote being overturned by the dirty ruling elites who voted for the referendum and promised to implement it, what would the remainers be rioting against?

Does it look like the supreme court will definitely agree? Ah well.

Impossible to say, but we won't have long to wait to find out. December 7th.

openclashXX wrote:odds of a General Election in 2017 just slashed to 2/1 on Ladbrokes

head of the British Polling Council reckons a snap GE would see Theresa May increase her majority from 12 to 44 seats

I like haggis wrote:

openclashXX wrote:odds of a General Election in 2017 just slashed to 2/1 on Ladbrokes

head of the British Polling Council reckons a snap GE would see Theresa May increase her majority from 12 to 44 seats

There are so many variables though, she'd have to produce her Brexit plan, a lot would vote for UKIPs out means out, 'remoaners' would vote Lib Dem (including I imagine a fair few Tory south constituencies), what happens with Labour? they'd be in complete disarray and might chase the remain vote but Corbyn doesn't want that - you could see the north voting UKIP on mass.

I'd like to see a GE right now because of the so many situations to play out but I think it would be even more divisive.

I like haggis wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:

haunch wrote:Well the riots would be over a fair democratic vote being overturned by the dirty ruling elites who voted for the referendum and promised to implement it, what would the remainers be rioting against?

Does it look like the supreme court will definitely agree? Ah well.

Impossible to say, but we won't have long to wait to find out. December 7th.

It is very likely the Supreme Court will agree, if you read the judgements and submissions the Government really have no leg to stand on and the Supreme Court is usually even more wary of the government overriding parliament than the High Court and Court of Appeal. It's not impossible but I would be surprised if the Supreme Court allowed it.

openclashXX wrote:

haunch wrote:Presumably she will be standing on a manifesto of leaving the eu. But she would have to feel she couldn't win the vote now and that extra 30 votes wont make much difference without removing the remainer mps.

roughly what is the split of Tory MPs between remain and leave (based on what they announced pre-referendum)?

Dai another day wrote:A genuinely disgusting decision.

I genuinely despair.

If this goes how I expect it to go then there is no notion of democracy in the UK. Just a facade.

Nigel Farage saying this will provoke huge public anger - It will.

For me personally...well, I will never set foot in a polling station again.

openclashXX wrote:

haunch wrote:Presumably she will be standing on a manifesto of leaving the eu. But she would have to feel she couldn't win the vote now and that extra 30 votes wont make much difference without removing the remainer mps.

roughly what is the split of Tory MPs between remain and leave (based on what they announced pre-referendum)?

Dai another day wrote:A genuinely disgusting decision.

I genuinely despair.

If this goes how I expect it to go then there is no notion of democracy in the UK. Just a facade.

Nigel Farage saying this will provoke huge public anger - It will.

For me personally...well, I will never set foot in a polling station again.

Dai another day wrote:A genuinely disgusting decision.

I genuinely despair.

If this goes how I expect it to go then there is no notion of democracy in the UK. Just a facade.

Nigel Farage saying this will provoke huge public anger - It will.

For me personally...well, I will never set foot in a polling station again.

Margin_Walker wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

haunch wrote:Presumably she will be standing on a manifesto of leaving the eu. But she would have to feel she couldn't win the vote now and that extra 30 votes wont make much difference without removing the remainer mps.

roughly what is the split of Tory MPs between remain and leave (based on what they announced pre-referendum)?

184 Remain
139 Leave
4 Undeclared

openclashXX wrote:

I like haggis wrote:

openclashXX wrote:odds of a General Election in 2017 just slashed to 2/1 on Ladbrokes

head of the British Polling Council reckons a snap GE would see Theresa May increase her majority from 12 to 44 seats

There are so many variables though, she'd have to produce her Brexit plan, a lot would vote for UKIPs out means out, 'remoaners' would vote Lib Dem (including I imagine a fair few Tory south constituencies), what happens with Labour? they'd be in complete disarray and might chase the remain vote but Corbyn doesn't want that - you could see the north voting UKIP on mass.

I'd like to see a GE right now because of the so many situations to play out but I think it would be even more divisive.

I could see the Lib Dems make big gains from the bulk of remain voters, while the Leave vote is surely going to be split between the Tories and UKIP? I would've thought the Tories would be internally split on whether to soft Brexit or hard Brexit, whereas UKIP would obviously be for the hard Brexit

haunch wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:

haunch wrote:

JM2K6 wrote: Bearing in mind how horrific the Remain group think the original vote was, I can't see how 52% of the people who voted are going to react much worse than the 48% of the people who voted.

Unless, of course, the 52% had more thick violent racists and arseholes. I suppose it's possible.

And the remainers lost the vote or doesn't that count for anything?

What does that have to do with whether there'd be riots or not? There's only marginally more people who voted in favour of Brexit than who voted to stay, that's the point.

And it turns out their vote doesn't trump our constitution which is nice in this day and age of banging on about sovereignty.

Well the riots would be over a fair democratic vote being overturned by the dirty ruling elites who voted for the referendum and promised to implement it, what would the remainers be rioting against?
Does it look like the supreme court will definitely agree? Ah well.

Hellraiser wrote:

Dai another day wrote:A genuinely disgusting decision.

I genuinely despair.

If this goes how I expect it to go then there is no notion of democracy in the UK. Just a facade.

Nigel Farage saying this will provoke huge public anger - It will.

For me personally...well, I will never set foot in a polling station again.

You live in a parliamentary democracy, not a plebiscitary democracy. Sovereignty lies with parliament, not the government and not the general population. There could have been no other decision handed down without fundamentally undermining the constitutional framework of the UK.

slick wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

I like haggis wrote:

openclashXX wrote:odds of a General Election in 2017 just slashed to 2/1 on Ladbrokes

head of the British Polling Council reckons a snap GE would see Theresa May increase her majority from 12 to 44 seats

There are so many variables though, she'd have to produce her Brexit plan, a lot would vote for UKIPs out means out, 'remoaners' would vote Lib Dem (including I imagine a fair few Tory south constituencies), what happens with Labour? they'd be in complete disarray and might chase the remain vote but Corbyn doesn't want that - you could see the north voting UKIP on mass.

I'd like to see a GE right now because of the so many situations to play out but I think it would be even more divisive.

I could see the Lib Dems make big gains from the bulk of remain voters, while the Leave vote is surely going to be split between the Tories and UKIP? I would've thought the Tories would be internally split on whether to soft Brexit or hard Brexit, whereas UKIP would obviously be for the hard Brexit

It is inconceivable, and I ask because I don't know, that the Tories would say it's a GE not a referendum and we are going to campaign to remain?

Dai another day wrote:A genuinely disgusting decision.

I genuinely despair.

If this goes how I expect it to go then there is no notion of democracy in the UK. Just a facade.

Nigel Farage saying this will provoke huge public anger - It will.

For me personally...well, I will never set foot in a polling station again.

Lorthern Nights wrote:Anyone done the polling to work out what the vote would have looked like if it had been FPTP?

Would be quite amusing if the majority of MP's returned were returned on a Remain mandate and be then obliged to not trigger a50.

It's a bloody nonsense that we are leaving the EU based on a margin of 2% who will die off in the next couple of years anyway, that is not a clear mandate no matter how much the chinless wonder thinks it is.

Lorthern Nights wrote:Anyone done the polling to work out what the vote would have looked like if it had been FPTP?

The Sun God wrote:

Dai another day wrote:A genuinely disgusting decision.

I genuinely despair.

If this goes how I expect it to go then there is no notion of democracy in the UK. Just a facade.

Nigel Farage saying this will provoke huge public anger - It will.

For me personally...well, I will never set foot in a polling station again.

Excellent....one less Brexit vote the next time around.

openclashXX wrote:

Lorthern Nights wrote:Anyone done the polling to work out what the vote would have looked like if it had been FPTP?

Hellraiser wrote:

Dai another day wrote:A genuinely disgusting decision.

I genuinely despair.

If this goes how I expect it to go then there is no notion of democracy in the UK. Just a facade.

Nigel Farage saying this will provoke huge public anger - It will.

For me personally...well, I will never set foot in a polling station again.

You live in a parliamentary democracy, not a plebiscitary democracy. Sovereignty lies with parliament, not the government and not the general population. There could have been no other decision handed down without fundamentally undermining the constitutional framework of the UK.

JM2K6 wrote:I don't think you've understood this at all.

Besides, a "fair democratic vote" is all well and good, but this country is not ruled by plebiscite and not ruled by referenda.

haunch wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:I don't think you've understood this at all.

Besides, a "fair democratic vote" is all well and good, but this country is not ruled by plebiscite and not ruled by referenda.

I don't think you have. If you can't see one side having the legitimate grievance then I'll leave it.

DAC2016 wrote:It's a funny state of affairs when the Left are more interested in money than democracy.

That's why the left should be eradicated. Permanently.

DAC2016 wrote:It's a funny state of affairs when the Left are more interested in money than democracy.

That's why the left should be eradicated. Permanently.

Ladbrokes’ latest betting:

When will the UK invoke Article 50?

2016 – 50/1
2017 – 4/7
2018 – 6/1
2019 – 16/1
2020 – 20/1
2021 or later – 9/4

Next General Election

2017 – 2/1
2018 – 12/1
2019 – 12/1
2020 – 4/6

JM2K6 wrote:

DAC2016 wrote:It's a funny state of affairs when the Left are more interested in money than democracy.

That's why the left should be eradicated. Permanently.

Apparently the right wishes to eradicate Parliament.

croyals wrote:Fwiw Parliament should absolutely have a vote on Article 50, but should not vote against it without securing a mandate to do so. Otherwise there will be absolute carnage.

To be clear, I do not mean riots, I mean an ugly, ugly campaign in which UKIP do very well and we end up ridiculously divided.

Dai another day wrote:

Hellraiser wrote:

Dai another day wrote:A genuinely disgusting decision.

I genuinely despair.

If this goes how I expect it to go then there is no notion of democracy in the UK. Just a facade.

Nigel Farage saying this will provoke huge public anger - It will.

For me personally...well, I will never set foot in a polling station again.

You live in a parliamentary democracy, not a plebiscitary democracy. Sovereignty lies with parliament, not the government and not the general population. There could have been no other decision handed down without fundamentally undermining the constitutional framework of the UK.

But this has been coming for months. Many in the European Parliament didn't take this referendum seriously and many in the House of Commons didn't take the vote seriously. They've duped the British people.

Just like with the Irish Lisbon treaty referendum and the recent Dutch one.

A faux notion of democracy is at forefront of many Western nation states.

The majority, I believe, want a hard Brexit.

I seriously question whether we will get any Brexit at all.

kagamusha wrote:

croyals wrote:Fwiw Parliament should absolutely have a vote on Article 50, but should not vote against it without securing a mandate to do so. Otherwise there will be absolute carnage.

To be clear, I do not mean riots, I mean an ugly, ugly campaign in which UKIP do very well and we end up ridiculously divided.

Not an unreasonable view...but I am not convinced the leave votes would still vote leave now more hard facts are in the public domain e.g. the £350m for the NHS.

JM2K6 wrote:

haunch wrote:

JM2K6 wrote:I don't think you've understood this at all.

Besides, a "fair democratic vote" is all well and good, but this country is not ruled by plebiscite and not ruled by referenda.

I don't think you have. If you can't see one side having the legitimate grievance then I'll leave it.

FFS, we're talking about the reactions. Remainers have a legitimate grievance - losing the vote doesn't change that.

kagamusha wrote:

croyals wrote:Fwiw Parliament should absolutely have a vote on Article 50, but should not vote against it without securing a mandate to do so. Otherwise there will be absolute carnage.

To be clear, I do not mean riots, I mean an ugly, ugly campaign in which UKIP do very well and we end up ridiculously divided.

Not an unreasonable view...but I am not convinced the leave votes would still vote leave now more hard facts are in the public domain e.g. the £350m for the NHS.