Planet Rugby Forum

Hellraiser wrote:

piquant wrote:David Davis says the government is appealing against the court ruling because, although it accepted parliamentary sovereignty, the people were ultimately sovereign and 17.4m people voted for Brexit. It was “the biggest mandate in history”, he said. And he said that MPs had voted six to one in favour of letting the people decide through a referendum.

There's no way that's going to fly when the referendum was advisory, so they'll have to do better than that.

No they're not, that's the whole point.

theo wrote:

haunch wrote:

piquant wrote:David Davis says the government is appealing against the court ruling because, although it accepted parliamentary sovereignty, the people were ultimately sovereign and 17.4m people voted for Brexit. It was “the biggest mandate in history”, he said. And he said that MPs had voted six to one in favour of letting the people decide through a referendum.

There's no way that's going to fly when the referendum was advisory, so they'll have to do better than that.

Yep, he should start campaigning to change the constitution to make referendum results binding. Would have to be a scummer to vote against the will of the people though. No shortage of them.

No he really shouldn't.

piquant wrote:David Davis says the government is appealing against the court ruling because, although it accepted parliamentary sovereignty, the people were ultimately sovereign and 17.4m people voted for Brexit. It was “the biggest mandate in history”, he said. And he said that MPs had voted six to one in favour of letting the people decide through a referendum.

There's no way that's going to fly when the referendum was advisory, so they'll have to do better than that.

Daniel Hannan Verified account
‏@DanielJHannan

Can anyone still doubt that the EU project is fundamentally undemocratic? My @Telegraph column.

theo wrote:

piquant wrote:https://twitter.com/StephenMangan/statu ... 3477320704

paddyor wrote:

piquant wrote:David Davis says the government is appealing against the court ruling because, although it accepted parliamentary sovereignty, the people were ultimately sovereign and 17.4m people voted for Brexit. It was “the biggest mandate in history”, he said. And he said that MPs had voted six to one in favour of letting the people decide through a referendum.

There's no way that's going to fly when the referendum was advisory, so they'll have to do better than that.

Daniel Hannan also going full retard in the Torygraph

Daniel Hannan Verified account
‏@DanielJHannan

Can anyone still doubt that the EU project is fundamentally undemocratic? My @Telegraph column.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11 ... cle-50-is/
Yes Daniel, a Uk court making a ruling on UK legal process makes the EU undemocratic.

TranceNRG wrote: Yeah acting on the the result of the referendum is tyrannical and incompetent. I don't need to remind you about her very high approval ratings. So clearly the general public disagree with you.

The Sun God wrote:

TranceNRG wrote: Yeah acting on the the result of the referendum is tyrannical and incompetent. I don't need to remind you about her very high approval ratings. So clearly the general public disagree with you.

A word to the wise sport.....you are a fcuking idiot who really should not get involved in conversations of any importance. If you are a Father, I feel sorry for your kids. Go back and start/finish your education because you are lacking in so many facets. Nothing personal you gormless idiot.

The Sun God wrote:

TranceNRG wrote: Yeah acting on the the result of the referendum is tyrannical and incompetent. I don't need to remind you about her very high approval ratings. So clearly the general public disagree with you.

A word to the wise sport.....you are a fcuking idiot who really should not get involved in conversations of any importance. If you are a Father, I feel sorry for your kids. Go back and start/finish your education because you are lacking in so many facets. Nothing personal you gormless idiot.

Sandstorm wrote:

The Sun God wrote:

TranceNRG wrote: Yeah acting on the the result of the referendum is tyrannical and incompetent. I don't need to remind you about her very high approval ratings. So clearly the general public disagree with you.

A word to the wise sport.....you are a fcuking idiot who really should not get involved in conversations of any importance. If you are a Father, I feel sorry for your kids. Go back and start/finish your education because you are lacking in so many facets. Nothing personal you gormless idiot.

Get off the fence and say what you really think, SG.

SamShark wrote:As sad as it is to say, Theresa May should just have another election as she would smash it.

Labour are beyond shambolic and SNP/UKIP would continue to take the voters they could once rely on.

But at least then people would be able to/forced to lay out their position, whether to explain how they would leave the EU, or risk alienating Brexiters by offering the chance of remaining.

I like haggis wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:So, what is the ideal figure for migration into the UK?

Anyone got a figure?

Just the ones that are eligible to play rugby for Scotland.

DragsterDriver wrote:

I like haggis wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:So, what is the ideal figure for migration into the UK?

Anyone got a figure?

Just the ones that are eligible to play rugby for Scotland.

I'm thinking a few Czech women

I like haggis wrote:

SamShark wrote:As sad as it is to say, Theresa May should just have another election as she would smash it.

Labour are beyond shambolic and SNP/UKIP would continue to take the voters they could once rely on.

But at least then people would be able to/forced to lay out their position, whether to explain how they would leave the EU, or risk alienating Brexiters by offering the chance of remaining.

She either doesn't have or doesn't want her plan scrutinised is the only possible reason for her secrecy, the appeal and not calling a GE.

I don't think it would be so easy for her, I think her time in office has been pretty shambolic and at the moment her words are currying favour with the ill informed. I don't think Corbyn is a good leader so I could see huge Lib Dem and UKIP gains.

Sandstorm wrote:

The Sun God wrote:

TranceNRG wrote: Yeah acting on the the result of the referendum is tyrannical and incompetent. I don't need to remind you about her very high approval ratings. So clearly the general public disagree with you.

A word to the wise sport.....you are a fcuking idiot who really should not get involved in conversations of any importance. If you are a Father, I feel sorry for your kids. Go back and start/finish your education because you are lacking in so many facets. Nothing personal you gormless idiot.

Get off the fence and say what you really think, SG.

Chuckles1188 wrote:

I like haggis wrote:

SamShark wrote:As sad as it is to say, Theresa May should just have another election as she would smash it.

Labour are beyond shambolic and SNP/UKIP would continue to take the voters they could once rely on.

But at least then people would be able to/forced to lay out their position, whether to explain how they would leave the EU, or risk alienating Brexiters by offering the chance of remaining.

She either doesn't have or doesn't want her plan scrutinised is the only possible reason for her secrecy, the appeal and not calling a GE.

TI don't think it would be so easy for her, I think her time in office has been pretty shambolic and at the moment her words are currying favour with the ill informed. I don't think Corbyn is a good leader so I could see huge Lib Dem and UKIP gains.

Depends when the election is actually held. You've got both the boundary changes to factor in, and the fact that at the moment daylight is on track to form Her Majesty's Opposition. Labour are flirting with the absolute floor of their vote (although I've read some analysis recently which suggests that there may well be virtually no bottom to their vote anymore) and the Lib Dems have just reached the heady heights of double digit polling figures at national level. I think May is a complete fucking plank and will probably go down as one of our more inept leaders, but the fact of the matter is that she's tremendously popular at the moment and would clean up at the polls if the election were held next spring

The Sun God wrote:

TranceNRG wrote: Yeah acting on the the result of the referendum is tyrannical and incompetent. I don't need to remind you about her very high approval ratings. So clearly the general public disagree with you.

A word to the wise sport.....you are a fcuking idiot who really should not get involved in conversations of any importance. If you are a Father, I feel sorry for your kids. Go back and start/finish your education because you are lacking in so many facets. Nothing personal you gormless idiot.

I like haggis wrote: When the boundary changes come into effect we're halfway through the negotiations so that wouldn't make sense really. I agree that polling suggests she should win pretty comfortably - the polls think Leave would win a referendum six months out either, the polls didn't think there would be a Conservative majority, the polls didn't predict Trump.

There must be something stopping her having a Brexit debate and calling a GE (that common knowledge suggests she'd be incredibly successful).

I like haggis wrote:

SamShark wrote:As sad as it is to say, Theresa May should just have another election as she would smash it.

Labour are beyond shambolic and SNP/UKIP would continue to take the voters they could once rely on.

But at least then people would be able to/forced to lay out their position, whether to explain how they would leave the EU, or risk alienating Brexiters by offering the chance of remaining.

She either doesn't have a plan or doesn't want her plan scrutinised is the only possible reason for her secrecy, the appeal and not calling a GE.

I don't think it would be so easy for her, I think her time in office has been pretty shambolic and at the moment her words are currying favour with the ill informed without her actions being judged. I don't think Corbyn is a good leader so I could see huge Lib Dem and UKIP gains.

theo wrote:

I like haggis wrote:

SamShark wrote:As sad as it is to say, Theresa May should just have another election as she would smash it.

Labour are beyond shambolic and SNP/UKIP would continue to take the voters they could once rely on.

But at least then people would be able to/forced to lay out their position, whether to explain how they would leave the EU, or risk alienating Brexiters by offering the chance of remaining.

She either doesn't have a plan or doesn't want her plan scrutinised is the only possible reason for her secrecy, the appeal and not calling a GE.

I don't think it would be so easy for her, I think her time in office has been pretty shambolic and at the moment her words are currying favour with the ill informed without her actions being judged. I don't think Corbyn is a good leader so I could see huge Lib Dem and UKIP gains.

She be handed a pretty shit hand in fairness.

As you say UKIP could possibly be the biggest gainers if an election was called next year.

Labour will get shafted and could easily end up the 4th or 5th party.

theo wrote: She be handed a pretty shit hand in fairness.

As you say UKIP could possibly be the biggest gainers if an election was called next year.

Labour will get shafted and could easily end up the 4th or 5th party.

Chuckles1188 wrote:

I like haggis wrote: When the boundary changes come into effect we're halfway through the negotiations so that wouldn't make sense really. I agree that polling suggests she should win pretty comfortably - the polls think Leave would win a referendum six months out either, the polls didn't think there would be a Conservative majority, the polls didn't predict Trump.

There must be something stopping her having a Brexit debate and calling a GE (that common knowledge suggests she'd be incredibly successful).

Well she categorically ruled a GE out when she took office, and politicians generally do try and avoid doing a total about-turn on guarantees like that.

Chuckles1188 wrote:

theo wrote: She be handed a pretty shit hand in fairness.

As you say UKIP could possibly be the biggest gainers if an election was called next year.

Labour will get shafted and could easily end up the 4th or 5th party.

I'd be pretty astonished if they weren't still the opposition, even if it is a rump one. But the $64,000 question is, if Corbyn continues his hot streak of utter fuckups to the point where they do end up in 3rd place or lower, will that be enough for the membership to accept that he is not the Messiah and boot him out?

TranceNRG wrote:

The Sun God wrote:

TranceNRG wrote: Yeah acting on the the result of the referendum is tyrannical and incompetent. I don't need to remind you about her very high approval ratings. So clearly the general public disagree with you.

A word to the wise sport.....you are a fcuking idiot who really should not get involved in conversations of any importance. If you are a Father, I feel sorry for your kids. Go back and start/finish your education because you are lacking in so many facets. Nothing personal you gormless idiot.

Perhaps you could point out where I was wrong in my assertion you impolite wanker. Don't worry I think you are a gobshite too.

The Sun God wrote:

TranceNRG wrote:

The Sun God wrote:

TranceNRG wrote: Yeah acting on the the result of the referendum is tyrannical and incompetent. I don't need to remind you about her very high approval ratings. So clearly the general public disagree with you.

A word to the wise sport.....you are a fcuking idiot who really should not get involved in conversations of any importance. If you are a Father, I feel sorry for your kids. Go back and start/finish your education because you are lacking in so many facets. Nothing personal you gormless idiot.

Perhaps you could point out where I was wrong in my assertion you impolite wanker. Don't worry I think you are a gobshite too.

Fcuking hell, you have infected this 600 page thread like a bad dose of syphilis. Not once have you had any insight into what may or may not happen in relation to Brexit and have shouted down any poster who presented an intelligent argument as to why ' Brexit does not mean Brexit.'
Go and read a few books you antipodean moron. Thank fcuk people like you are probably not the future of the UK

LONDON (ICIS)--Officials from the UK’s Department for Exiting the EU (DExEU) met this week with the chemical industry’s representatives to analyse post-Brexit scenarios but failed short to reassure them the sector will get access to the single market once the country leaves the bloc, an executive at trade group Chemical Industries Association (CIA) said late on Wednesday.

The government’s representative, Robin Walker, said DExEU is seeking to limit uncertainty while the negotiations to leave the EU take place, possibly two years after the UK’s notifies to the bloc its intention to leave, which will happen by March 2017.

“My message to the industry is that Britain is the same outward-looking, globally-minded, big-thinking country we have always been, and that leaving the EU offers us an opportunity to forge a new role for ourselves in the world,” the minister told CIA, along with representatives of some of the largest chemicals companies active in the UK, at a meeting on 26 October.

“I look forward to working with the chemical industry, as we embark on this historic and positive moment for our nation and get the best deal for Britain’s businesses and manufacturers,” he added.

However, assurances on access to the single market post-Brexit were not given by the minister. Leaving the 500 million person-strong EU single market has come to be known as a ‘hard Brexit’, the worst-possible scenario for chemicals, according to both CIA and the European Chemical Industry Council (Cefic) earlier this month.

“It [hard Brexit] is one of the possible outcomes [of leaving the EU] but today’s [26 October] meeting was a good opportunity to highlight how significant an impact that could have in the UK chemical sector,” said the CIA’s director for energy and competitiveness, Nick Sturgeon.

“There is a recognition [from the government] about how the chemical industry needs the brightest and the best [of workers it can source] and we explained how much we rely on skilled people [coming from other EU countries].”

Automatically, a member of the EU single market also accepts the free movement of people within the bloc - anyone from a member country who finds a job elsewhere in the EU has the right to take it, without additional work visa requirements.

In the UK, following years of manufacturing decline, enrolment in vocational training and engineering degrees has fallen, causing a shortage of skilled - and, to certain extent, unskilled – workers in many sectors.

Although the controversy about how migrants from the rest of the EU impacts on salaries of those living in the UK made much of the referendum campaign in June, on the other hand many services and industrial sectors in the UK could not function without the input from EU workers moving to the its shores, Sturgeon said.

“On the science [engineering] side, for instance, good examples come from contractor companies taking part in big [infrastructure, construction] projects – you need a wider pool of labour than that available in the UK,” said Sturgeon.

“We haven’t got any answer on that. But we were reassured about how the government is listening to the industry’s position.”

Energy and the regulation were two other issues discussed at the meeting. Other attendees included representatives of INEOS, BASF, Johnson Matthey, Croda, Thomas Swan and Co, Biorenewables Development Centre, Fujifilm Diosynth Biotechnologies, Shott Trinova and Oxford Biotrans.

“On energy, [we need] access to the European single energy market, and we also spoke about an earlier development of shale gas in the UK while minimising the cost of climate change policy. Whether with Brexit or without it, we need to look at ways on how to meet the carbon budget which caps UK emissions while analysing opportunities to lower its costs,” said Sturgeon.

“We spoke about Reach as well and we explained the need for maintaining it - of course, we have to work under Reach and [post-Brexit] we need continued compatibility, so even after the departure from the EU there will be mutual recognition [of chemical products between the UK and the EU].”

The DExEU was formed following the result of the referendum on EU membership held in the UK on 23 June, which led to the resignation of the Prime Minister David Cameron.

In July, the UK’s Conservative party chose Theresa May as his successor, prompting a government reshuffle and the creation of DExEU.

The UK’s chemical industry, which exports around 60% of its production to fellow member countries within the EU, said access to the tariff-free single market was key for operations following the referendum, as well as the ability to hire workers anywhere in the EU.

The UK government has embarked in a series of meetings with different economic sectors, and CIA’s Sturgeon said chemicals were at the forefront of the government’s priorities as the industry has become one of the main manufacturing exporting sectors in the UK.

However, the UK government has sent out contradictory messages. DExEU’s chief, secretary David Davies (in the UK, secretary is the highest rank at a ministry, or Department, while ministers are below the secretary) said a few weeks back in Parliament permanence in the single market was unlikely once the UK left the EU.

He was soon after corrected by his own boss, premier May, who has yet to give a clear message on the exit strategy the UK is to pursue.

After her speech to her party’s conference on 2 October, political analysts understood she was supporting leaving the single market altogether, or ‘hard Brexit’, but she denied that extreme later on.

The lack of clarity has caused the UK pound to lose ground against other major currencies during past weeks, while the UK’s Office for National Statistics (ONS) confirmed on Thursday a slowdown in the economy during the July-September quarter, immediately after the EU referendum, compared to the preceding quarter.

Sterling was trading on Thursday afternoon at £1:$1.22. When the UK went to the polls to decide on EU membership on 23 June, sterling was trading at £1:$1.47.

By Jonathan Lopez

RodneyRegis wrote:So....

Did Parliament vote to ratify the 1975 referendum?

Did Scottish parliament vote to ratify the Inie ref result?

Would parliament have voted to ratify a remain vote?

If not, why not?

Still, win-win really - either parliament votes to leave, or we get to have a riot

The unelected 'activist' judges who mounted a 'power grab': High Court trio who blocked Brexit are led by one who founded group dedicated to furthering European integration

By Richard Spillett for MailOnline

Published: 11:34, 3 November 2016 | Updated: 17:00, 3 November 2016

The bombshell court ruling which has bogged down Britain's exit from the EU in a legal quagmire has sparked a row over how UK judges are appointed.

The Lord Chief Justice, Baron Thomas of Cwmgiedd, alongside Sir Terence Etherton and Lord Justice Sales, ruled that the Prime Minister does not have power to trigger Article 50 to start the two-year Brexit process.

The unelected trio were today accused of 'striking down the will of the people to set in train leaving the EU'.

Ukip politicians branded the ruling 'judicial activism' and called for a system which would allow judges to be sacked.
Baron Thomas of Cwmgiedd was one of three judges behind today's Brexit ruling, which found Theresa May does not have the power to trigger the process of leaving the EU

Baron Thomas of Cwmgiedd was one of three judges behind today's Brexit ruling, which found Theresa May does not have the power to trigger the process of leaving the EU
He was aided by 'Master of the Rolls' Sir Terence Etherton
He was aided by Lord Justice Sales

He was aided by 'Master of the Rolls' Sir Terence Etherton (left) and Lord Justice Sales (right)

Ukip leadership candidate Suzanne Evans said: 'How dare these activist judges attempt to overturn our will? It's a power grab and undermines democracy. Time we had the right to sack them.'

Ukip donor Arron Banks, co-chairman of the Leave.EU campaign, asked: 'Why wouldn't unelected judges want to preserve an EU system where unelected elites like themselves are all-powerful?'

In explaining the judges' decision today, Lord Thomas insisted they were concerned with 'a pure question of law' and were not expressing any view about the merits of leaving the European Union, which is, he said 'a political issue'.

Lord Thomas was a founding member of the European Law Institute, which says it works towards the 'enhancement of European legal integration'.

RodneyRegis wrote:
Still, win-win really - either parliament votes to leave, or we get to have a riot

Silver wrote:
Something wrong with democracy when judges can overrule parliament.

Duff Paddy wrote:

RodneyRegis wrote:
Still, win-win really - either parliament votes to leave, or we get to have a riot

confirming the type of people who voted for brexit really.

croyals wrote:I'm sorry I read 'Labour as 4th or 5th party' and fainted due to the amount of blood rushing away from my brain.