OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

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Whether you can or can't actually vote IRL, In, or Out

In
248
60%
Out
167
40%
 
Total votes: 415

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SamShark
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

Chris Gibson ✔ ‎@ChrisGibsonNews
A loyal Tory insider told me re #Boris "everyone knows he is really pro-European so what he is doing is about pure political calculation."
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SamShark
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

ZW03 wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
SamShark wrote:
cachao wrote:Doesn't Corbyn also have greater support amongst the young?
It's an interesting issue.

In the Scottish independence referendum the nationalists accused the older generation of not being brave and hanging on to the status quo.

In this case it's the older generation who want "out" of something more than the young.

Quite. I'm already cringing waiting for all the people who were dead against Scottish independence from the UK arguing in favour of UK 'independence' from Brussels, whilst shamelessly using all of the same arguments
.
This has been quite remarkable to watch over the last 30 years or so. A complete and utter lack of self-awareness and understanding of irony on a national level.
Kind of similar to the Irish desperately campaigning for Scottish independence, then suggesting anyone who wants out of the EU is a little Englander.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by iarmhiman »

SamShark wrote:
Chris Gibson ✔ ‎@ChrisGibsonNews
A loyal Tory insider told me re #Boris "everyone knows he is really pro-European so what he is doing is about pure political calculation."
This could still massively come back to bite him on the arse.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by iarmhiman »

SamShark wrote:
ZW03 wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
SamShark wrote:
cachao wrote:Doesn't Corbyn also have greater support amongst the young?
It's an interesting issue.

In the Scottish independence referendum the nationalists accused the older generation of not being brave and hanging on to the status quo.

In this case it's the older generation who want "out" of something more than the young.

Quite. I'm already cringing waiting for all the people who were dead against Scottish independence from the UK arguing in favour of UK 'independence' from Brussels, whilst shamelessly using all of the same arguments
.
This has been quite remarkable to watch over the last 30 years or so. A complete and utter lack of self-awareness and understanding of irony on a national level.
Kind of similar to the Irish desperately campaigning for Scottish independence, then suggesting anyone who wants out of the EU is a little Englander.
It just shows you though that the Irish and English disagree on almost everything. :lol:
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SamShark
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

iarmhiman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Chris Gibson ✔ ‎@ChrisGibsonNews
A loyal Tory insider told me re #Boris "everyone knows he is really pro-European so what he is doing is about pure political calculation."
This could still massively come back to bite him on the arse.
He gets such an easy ride from journalists as they find him amusing.

For the last few years he's been asked if he wants to be PM and he just says "gosh" a few times, makes a joke and moves on. Slightly disrespectful to effectively jack in his Mayor of London role early to suit his wider career goals.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

Sam, C69 - In the case of an OUT (I'm not sure how the public will vote, the polls tbh are up and down too much to judge), how would you react?
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

It just shows you though that the Irish and English disagree on almost everything. :lol:
The Scottish Independence and EU referendum do lead to some amusing contradictions, but I dont think they are unique to any one nation.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by C69 »

iarmhiman wrote:What's Galloway's angle in all this? What are his reasons for voting no?
I suspect, he see the EU as a Capitalist trading block, a waste of money and opposes vehemently the TTIP , with the interests of big business uttermost, and believes that the UK should be looking at an internationalist approach trading with all countrys across the globe especially the Commonwealth and emerging nations.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

Wendigo7 wrote:Sam, C69 - In the case of an OUT (I'm not sure how the public will vote, the polls tbh are up and down too much to judge), how would you react?
How could I react? I would hope for the best. Because many of the arguments for/against directly contradict each other it is of course possible that "out" could be the best option.

I think to expect this is risky though. Staying is perhaps a timid option, but this is the problem with these decisions, those selling what we have now can only warn it will get worse - those wanting change can make up what the fudge they like as future benefits.
Last edited by SamShark on Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by iarmhiman »

c69 wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:What's Galloway's angle in all this? What are his reasons for voting no?
I suspect, he see the EU as a Capitalist trading block, a waste of money and opposes vehemently the TTIP , with the interests of big business uttermost, and believes that the UK should be looking at an internationalist approach trading with all countrys across the globe especially the Commonwealth and emerging nations.
That's almost UKIP like in his outlook
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by fisgard792 »

c69 wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:What's Galloway's angle in all this? What are his reasons for voting no?
I suspect, he see the EU as a Capitalist trading block, a waste of money and opposes vehemently the TTIP , with the interests of big business uttermost, and believes that the UK should be looking at an internationalist approach trading with all countrys across the globe especially the Commonwealth and emerging nations.
i am quite surprised by galloway, normally socialists like big governments with lots of gravy, and i'd thought the eu's views on israel and palistine were closer to his own
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Carrots and Peas »

SamShark wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Chris Gibson ✔ ‎@ChrisGibsonNews
A loyal Tory insider told me re #Boris "everyone knows he is really pro-European so what he is doing is about pure political calculation."
This could still massively come back to bite him on the arse.
He gets such an easy ride from journalists as they find him amusing.

For the last few years he's been asked if he wants to be PM and he just says "gosh" a few times, makes a joke and moves on. Slightly disrespectful to effectively jack in his Mayor of London role early to suit his wider career goals.
A serial adulterer who went to Eton and oxford with two important and extremely well paid jobs does get a really day ride from usually very fickle press. Usually they are vehemently against both. All politicians should just put on a "funny, bumbling, English buffoon" act and the press will love you for it.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by C69 »

fisgard792 wrote:
c69 wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:What's Galloway's angle in all this? What are his reasons for voting no?
I suspect, he see the EU as a Capitalist trading block, a waste of money and opposes vehemently the TTIP , with the interests of big business uttermost, and believes that the UK should be looking at an internationalist approach trading with all countrys across the globe especially the Commonwealth and emerging nations.
i am quite surprised by galloway, normally socialists like big governments with lots of gravy, and i'd thought the eu's views on israel and palistine were closer to his own
You are surely taking the piss, many on the left see the EU as what it is a massive free trade organisation that serves big business and the TTIP may be a testament to that. Galloway's stance is wholly in kilter with that opinion.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
SamShark wrote:I've never really seen the substance in Boris, or got the joke.

People say "he's incredibly intelligent" but if that's the case it would seem to me to be academic intelligence, rather than real world usefulness. I don't want a PM who can write a cracking essay.

He's kind of betraying London with this career move as London wants to stay (the majority of the people) and the City wants to stay (tha majority of business).

But I guess his career is important.
Worth remembering that Boris spent three years as the Telegraph's correspondent in Brussels. He probably understands the EU pretty well.
I'm sure he understands it better than me no doubt, having been briefed and lobbied in all sorts of contexts, as well as the above, but I still think he's campaigning for himself which makes his views irrelevant.

Or at least should do, but he is a politician who says something and it gets printed/broadcast widely.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Carrots and Peas »

SamShark wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
SamShark wrote:I've never really seen the substance in Boris, or got the joke.

People say "he's incredibly intelligent" but if that's the case it would seem to me to be academic intelligence, rather than real world usefulness. I don't want a PM who can write a cracking essay.

He's kind of betraying London with this career move as London wants to stay (the majority of the people) and the City wants to stay (tha majority of business).

But I guess his career is important.
Worth remembering that Boris spent three years as the Telegraph's correspondent in Brussels. He probably understands the EU pretty well.
I'm sure he understands it better than me no doubt, having been briefed and lobbied in all sorts of contexts, as well as the above, but I still think he's campaigning for himself which makes his views irrelevant.

Or at least should do, but he is a politician who says something and it gets printed/broadcast widely.
He wants to stay. He's campaigning for political reasons and personal ambitions so everything he says about the EU is irrelevant because he's being disingenuous. Gove, Grayling, Fox et al are the ones campaigning for reasons they genuinely believe it so people should listen to them.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

And by the way:
- Cameron announces "deal"
- Cabinet meeting happens, and as agreed the people who want out can put their views forward - Gove, Grayling etc do so
- But not Boris, he stage manages it further, keeping people guessing and making his own announcement, with forthcoming press conference and Telegraph column

To me that's just saying "fudge you" to everyone.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by iarmhiman »

There are not many politicians who are as important as Boris purely because the average joe soap immediately recognises him. You can't say that for many other politicians with the exception of Cameron, Osbourne, Farage, Corbyn for obvious reasons.

That's why Boris's vote is important.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

SamShark wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:Sam, C69 - In the case of an OUT (I'm not sure how the public will vote, the polls tbh are up and down too much to judge), how would you react?
How could I react? I would hope for the best. Because many of the arguments for/against directly contradict each other it is of course possible that "out" could be the best option.

I think to expect this is risky though. Staying is perhaps a timid option, but this is the problem with these decisions, those selling what we have now can only warn it will get worse - those wanting change can make up what the f**k they like as future benefits.
Factually you're correct.

I've personally just seen too much spin from Labour for me to ever like Socialism again. Blair was the master of it and Labour left a bitter taste in my mouth. Ed Balls with the, good luck guys, we're skint comment for the Conservatives. Both sides spin so much that it's hard to say totally what will happen. For me, it is sovereignty and all about this. Will it benefit us?

I don't know but at the very least I'd like to find out. Scotland may leave, which is a shame, but could also elevate some of the burden with the Bennett's law eradicated. But I'll always vote for Country and soverignty first in any political matter.

I admit to wanting to vote UKIP, but I could never personally let Labour continue on the current path that Blair had setup so I voted for Cameron. I can imagine an awful lot of people in this country did exactly the same thing. It seems even some of Labour agree that the basic setup was a very dangerous view point. Blair longer term is the worst thing to ever happen to Labour and it's future prospects.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

Can someone please find me/promote a politician who is neither a) an Oxbridge career politician/former spad b) A populist single-issue crackpot.

As said above, Labour are pretty irrelevant in all this - a waste of space. They have nothing. This is Cameron vs Farage/Boris etc by the looks of it.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by ZW03 »

SamShark wrote:
ZW03 wrote:
Doc Rob wrote:
SamShark wrote:
cachao wrote:Doesn't Corbyn also have greater support amongst the young?
It's an interesting issue.

In the Scottish independence referendum the nationalists accused the older generation of not being brave and hanging on to the status quo.

In this case it's the older generation who want "out" of something more than the young.

Quite. I'm already cringing waiting for all the people who were dead against Scottish independence from the UK arguing in favour of UK 'independence' from Brussels, whilst shamelessly using all of the same arguments
.
This has been quite remarkable to watch over the last 30 years or so. A complete and utter lack of self-awareness and understanding of irony on a national level.
Kind of similar to the Irish desperately campaigning for Scottish independence, then suggesting anyone who wants out of the EU is a little Englander.
Poor comparison from a poor poster. Scotland leaving the eu would have been bad for Ireland as they would have positioned themselves to compete with us for multinationals etc. Most recognised this and it wasn't something that garnered much attention in the first place.

Brexit would be bad for ireland overall (not that it will happen anyway) so status quo would suit us yet again too.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Glaston »

"So the EU referendum vote is going to be when me and approx 175,000 other people are at Glastonbury Festival. This is a conspiracy surely?!"



Love the tin foil hat brigade
:lol: :lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by iarmhiman »

Glaston wrote:"So the EU referendum vote is going to be when me and approx 175,000 other people are at Glastonbury Festival. This is a conspiracy surely?!"



Love the tin foil hat brigade
:lol: :lol:
They would be mainly yes voters as well.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by C69 »

Wendigo7 wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:Sam, C69 - In the case of an OUT (I'm not sure how the public will vote, the polls tbh are up and down too much to judge), how would you react?
How could I react? I would hope for the best. Because many of the arguments for/against directly contradict each other it is of course possible that "out" could be the best option.

I think to expect this is risky though. Staying is perhaps a timid option, but this is the problem with these decisions, those selling what we have now can only warn it will get worse - those wanting change can make up what the f**k they like as future benefits.
Factually you're correct.

I've personally just seen too much spin from Labour for me to ever like Socialism again. Blair was the master of it and Labour left a bitter taste in my mouth. Ed Balls with the, good luck guys, we're skint comment for the Conservatives. Both sides spin so much that it's hard to say totally what will happen. For me, it is sovereignty and all about this. Will it benefit us?

I don't know but at the very least I'd like to find out. Scotland may leave, which is a shame, but could also elevate some of the burden with the Bennett's law eradicated. But I'll always vote for Country and soverignty first in any political matter.

I admit to wanting to vote UKIP, but I could never personally let Labour continue on the current path that Blair had setup so I voted for Cameron. I can imagine an awful lot of people in this country did exactly the same thing. It seems even some of Labour agree that the basic setup was a very dangerous view point. Blair longer term is the worst thing to ever happen to Labour and it's future prospects.
Yeah Blair and Balls were Socialists.
Not much more to discuss with you if you believe that.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by iarmhiman »

Blair was centre-right at the very least.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by openclashXX »

Wendigo thinks Blair was a socialist :lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by C69 »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
SamShark wrote:Can someone please find me/promote a politician who is neither a) an Oxbridge career politician/former spad b) A populist single-issue crackpot.

As said above, Labour are pretty irrelevant in all this - a waste of space. They have nothing. This is Cameron vs Farage/Boris etc by the looks of it.
All Hail The Mogg.
The old Etonian and Oxford Uni educated crackpot?
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

Peston and Laura Kuenssberg bickering live, over who gets to ask Boris questions during his announcement
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by C69 »

openclashXX wrote:Wendigo thinks Blair was a socialist :lol:
Some threads deserve serious political discussion with out taking the piss too much but ffs if people are going to comment then they should at least have a modicum of political knowledge.
It's like the morons that call Thatcher a fascist.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by MrDominator »

Will anyone in their right mind be swayed by Boris?

The man is a jibbering idiot.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by C69 »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
c69 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
SamShark wrote:Can someone please find me/promote a politician who is neither a) an Oxbridge career politician/former spad b) A populist single-issue crackpot.

As said above, Labour are pretty irrelevant in all this - a waste of space. They have nothing. This is Cameron vs Farage/Boris etc by the looks of it.
All Hail The Mogg.
The old Etonian and Oxford Uni educated crackpot?
He's not a career politician, not a former SPAD, not a populist, certainly not single-issue, and the sanest man in England.

You can have Etonian and Oxford if you wish, but that sounds a little classist to me.
I have presented his schooling nothing more nor less, are you afraid of the shadows?
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by iarmhiman »

MrDominator wrote:Will anyone in their right mind be swayed by Boris?

The man is a jibbering idiot.
Loads will be.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

iarmhiman wrote:
MrDominator wrote:Will anyone in their right mind be swayed by Boris?

The man is a jibbering idiot.
Loads will be.
I hope not. There are 4 months to go and fingers crossed this will be long forgotten, though granted it's big news today.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by iarmhiman »

SamShark wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
MrDominator wrote:Will anyone in their right mind be swayed by Boris?

The man is a jibbering idiot.
Loads will be.
I hope not. There are 4 months to go and fingers crossed this will be long forgotten, though granted it's big news today.
He's a very visible, recognisable man. He's also popular. He will swing a lot of undecided voters towards a no vote.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by kingswood »

Nice summary of Bojo's current position:

Boris Johnson has been playing hard to get. For once the man whose entire political career is an edifice of carefully constructed buffoonery is determined to wring as much publicity as possible out of not saying anything. He fancies his chances of becoming prime minister on the back of having a prominent role in a successful out campaign, but he’s currently the mayor of a city which is the most pro-EU part of England and which depends on EU membership for its financial well being. Boris is torn between his careerism and his self-interest, which is the closest to political principles that he’s ever going to get.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SaintK »

SamShark wrote:Can someone please find me/promote a politician who is neither a) an Oxbridge career politician/former spad b) A populist single-issue crackpot.

As said above, Labour are pretty irrelevant in all this - a waste of space. They have nothing. This is Cameron vs Farage/Boris etc by the looks of it.
Very much this :frown:
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SaintK »

kingswood wrote:Nice summary of Bojo's current position:

Boris Johnson has been playing hard to get. For once the man whose entire political career is an edifice of carefully constructed buffoonery is determined to wring as much publicity as possible out of not saying anything. He fancies his chances of becoming prime minister on the back of having a prominent role in a successful out campaign, but he’s currently the mayor of a city which is the most pro-EU part of England and which depends on EU membership for its financial well being. Boris is torn between his careerism and his self-interest, which is the closest to political principles that he’s ever going to get.
Spot on
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by iarmhiman »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
James Delingpole
‏@JamesDelingpole

Well done Boris. But it was one of those Churchill on the bridge moments. To have acted otherwise would have been to have rejected destiny.
:lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by HurricaneWasp »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
c69 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
SamShark wrote:Can someone please find me/promote a politician who is neither a) an Oxbridge career politician/former spad b) A populist single-issue crackpot.

As said above, Labour are pretty irrelevant in all this - a waste of space. They have nothing. This is Cameron vs Farage/Boris etc by the looks of it.
All Hail The Mogg.
The old Etonian and Oxford Uni educated crackpot?
He's not a career politician, not a former SPAD, not a populist, certainly not single-issue, and the sanest man in England.

You can have Etonian and Oxford if you wish, but that sounds a little classist to me.
J R-M is certainly the best current politician in the country. Also, dismissing someone because they went to Eton/Oxbridge is just ridiculous.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by C69 »

HurricaneWasp wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
c69 wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
SamShark wrote:Can someone please find me/promote a politician who is neither a) an Oxbridge career politician/former spad b) A populist single-issue crackpot.

As said above, Labour are pretty irrelevant in all this - a waste of space. They have nothing. This is Cameron vs Farage/Boris etc by the looks of it.
All Hail The Mogg.
The old Etonian and Oxford Uni educated crackpot?
He's not a career politician, not a former SPAD, not a populist, certainly not single-issue, and the sanest man in England.

You can have Etonian and Oxford if you wish, but that sounds a little classist to me.
J R-M is certainly the best current politician in the country. Also, dismissing someone because they went to Eton/Oxbridge is just ridiculous.
Point out any post where this has happened.
It would be equally as ridiculous as dismissing anyone that has no formal academic qualifications imho.
btw the man is an out of touch joke
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Sefton »

It's not the individual going to the Eton/Oxbridge/Research route into politics that is the issue, it is the dominance of this particular cadre within politics that has led to insularity a lack of experience and knowledge in Parliament.
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