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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:37 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Anything yet...anything? Just curious, it's been a few years so I'm hoping there is something...or maybe there will be next week, month, year. The excitement is palpable every time something like this comes along as a "this time we have him"

And maybe you do this time. Maybe. :lol:


nah, as you know everyone agrees that it will not get through the Senate but the whistleblower process needs to be followed and the justice dept agrees that there is an issue to be looked at - hey, its going to cost the Democrats politically but being the good guys we're doing it for the sake of our democracy


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:39 pm 
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ticketlessinseattle wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Anything yet...anything? Just curious, it's been a few years so I'm hoping there is something...or maybe there will be next week, month, year. The excitement is palpable every time something like this comes along as a "this time we have him"

And maybe you do this time. Maybe. :lol:


nah, as you know everyone agrees that it will not get through the Senate but the whistleblower process needs to be followed and the justice dept agrees that there is an issue to be looked at - hey, its going to cost the Democrats politically but being the good guys we're doing it for the sake of our democracy

:shock: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:15 pm 
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ticketlessinseattle wrote:
Santa and SOTN - have you clarified why Trump told the President of Ukraine to get in touch with Trumps own private lawyer and not the US Embassy over his concerns about possible fraud ?


Yes.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:28 pm 
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So Trump and Rudy have between them somehow managed to tick the boxes not merely of inviting foreign interference into US elections but also of treason, and for what? One of the weird things about Watergate was how little the action being taken should have mattered, and this is similar, what the hell where they after and why to have landed themselves in such a cesspit?

This looks a nailed on crime that both Trump and Rudy have both admitted to in multiple recordings. It's both very weird, and pathetic in the extreme


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:57 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Communication is probabilistic. In my theory there are 5 main steps involved in spoken comunication:
1. Ordering the mind to give a coherent message
2. Translating what is in the mind into the right words
3. Saying those words
4. The listener hearing all of the words
5. The listener understanding all of the words in the same way as the communicator meant them

At any point there might be a breakdown in one or more steps such that what the communicator intends to communicate is actually miscommunicated or misunderstood.

Even writing this will be to much for some on here to understand.


You need to work on step 2 bro.

It is interesting though that White House staffers thought the content of the Zelensky/Trump phone call was so problematic that they took the unprecedented step of putting it on a stand alone server dedicated for storing classified material dealing with national security. This is what apparently alarmed the whistleblower so much, and any reasonable person can see why...that includes Maguire it seems.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:06 pm 
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puku wrote:
It is interesting though that White House staffers thought the content of the Zelensky/Trump phone call was so problematic that they took the unprecedented step of putting it on a stand alone server
Doesn't the letter itself explicitly state that the writer believed that this wasn’t the first time that happened, so by definition not “unprecedented”? That to me is one of the least confounding elements of this story, given the previous leaking of other such transcripts.

I’m wheelmed by this episode and wish Pelosi had stayed the course for longer pending more details.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:18 pm 
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Mr Mike wrote:
puku wrote:
It is interesting though that White House staffers thought the content of the Zelensky/Trump phone call was so problematic that they took the unprecedented step of putting it on a stand alone server
Doesn't the letter itself explicitly state that the writer believed that this wasn’t the first time that happened, so by definition not “unprecedented”? That to me is one of the least confounding elements of this story, given the previous leaking of other such transcripts.

I’m wheelmed by this episode and wish Pelosi had stayed the course for longer pending more details.

There was plenty of miss-information about. The reports I read were clear that the crux of the whistle-blowers report was not the actual phone-call, that the phone call was secondary. Yet when you read the whistleblowers report the phone call is a substantial consideration within it. Let's see the actual transcript of the phone call me thinks.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:28 pm 
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The taflon Don may have met his match this time.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:37 pm 
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piquant wrote:
So Trump and Rudy have between them somehow managed to tick the boxes not merely of inviting foreign interference into US elections but also of treason, and for what? One of the weird things about Watergate was how little the action being taken should have mattered, and this is similar, what the hell where they after and why to have landed themselves in such a cesspit?

This looks a nailed on crime that both Trump and Rudy have both admitted to in multiple recordings. It's both very weird, and pathetic in the extreme

If he didn't think he was 100% above the law he would probably have thought twice about being so brazen. You can't really blame him for thinking that when you consider what he has got away with so far. It's like a far fetched Hollywood film.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:38 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
The taflon Don may have met his match this time.

This time. Not the last few times, but this time...must be it. :nod:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:40 pm 
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Just been looking at the whistleblowers report. There's literally no way that wasn't written by a fairly high end lawyer.

Some serious resourcing has gone into it.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:43 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Just been looking at the whistleblowers report. There's literally no way that wasn't written by a fairly high end lawyer.

Some serious resourcing has gone into it.

Rudy Giuliani did not for sure :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:48 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
piquant wrote:
So Trump and Rudy have between them somehow managed to tick the boxes not merely of inviting foreign interference into US elections but also of treason, and for what? One of the weird things about Watergate was how little the action being taken should have mattered, and this is similar, what the hell where they after and why to have landed themselves in such a cesspit?

This looks a nailed on crime that both Trump and Rudy have both admitted to in multiple recordings. It's both very weird, and pathetic in the extreme

If he didn't think he was 100% above the law he would probably have thought twice about being so brazen. You can't really blame him for thinking that when you consider what he has got away with so far. It's like a far fetched Hollywood film.


It's more he thinks legal is things he likes or considers helpful, and illegal/unfair/fake anything he doesn't like. Reality doesn't seem to intrude much on his thought process


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:52 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
The taflon Don may have met his match this time.

This time. Not the last few times, but this time...must be it. :nod:

You think must or are you just being a tosser. Just asked as it's not what I said.

BTW

Are you still pretending not to be a supporter ?


Last edited by Anonymous. on Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:53 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Just been looking at the whistleblowers report. There's literally no way that wasn't written by a fairly high end lawyer.

Some serious resourcing has gone into it.


It's awesome. The whistleblower is the deepest of deep state plants you could possibly conceive of. Most of it drifts off into some seriously murky shit about domestic Ukrainian politics and the dark Nuland days, when it looks like so much corrupt shit was going on people will do anything to avoid it coming out. This is the black hole at the heart of DC.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:54 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Just been looking at the whistleblowers report. There's literally no way that wasn't written by a fairly high end lawyer.

Some serious resourcing has gone into it.


The Age of Trump

'That report there is very wordy. Something weird about that'


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:05 pm 
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Finished watching the session with the acting DNI and the usual back and forth. One take away that was the DNI said it was Congress's job to investigate and Schiff laid a clear platform that they need to investigate. Regardless of anything else the Dems are retaining that moral high ground here. Trump can't just deflect behind a barrage of witch hunt accusations.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:18 pm 
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Flockwitt wrote:
Finished watching the session with the acting DNI and the usual back and forth. One take away that was the DNI said it was Congress's job to investigate and Schiff laid a clear platform that they need to investigate. Regardless of anything else the Dems are retaining that moral high ground here. Trump can't just deflect behind a barrage of witch hunt accusations.


Schiff is not a sane or well man.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:21 pm 
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its simply going to be a case of I told you I was going to do it and I did it - you didnt stop me so I didnt break the law....losers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2HsUhK-gI0


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:32 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Finished watching the session with the acting DNI and the usual back and forth. One take away that was the DNI said it was Congress's job to investigate and Schiff laid a clear platform that they need to investigate. Regardless of anything else the Dems are retaining that moral high ground here. Trump can't just deflect behind a barrage of witch hunt accusations.


Schiff is not a sane or well man.

Not like you to attack the messenger, rather than the message.

No, wait...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:37 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Just been looking at the whistleblowers report. There's literally no way that wasn't written by a fairly high end lawyer.

Some serious resourcing has gone into it.

Yeah. One theory I've seen is it's a bunch of people behind one person.

I will piss myself laughing if it's Bolton.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:41 pm 
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Image

Key word is IF, but even at that Trump is going to have to work hard to convince them.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:42 pm 
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Image

Quote:
Yea he knew who he was talking to. said he known the codes?

Communication is probabilistic. In my theory there are 5 main steps involved in spoken comunication:
1. Ordering the mind to give a coherent message
2. Translating what is in the mind into the right words
3. Saying those words
4. The listener hearing all of the words
5. The listener understanding all of the words in the same way as the communicator meant them

At any point there might be a breakdown in one or more steps such that what the communicator intends to communicate is actually miscommunicated or misunderstood.

Even writing this will be to much for some on here to understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:49 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Image

Key word is IF, but even at that Trump is going to have to work hard to convince them.


In that sense it's irrelevant. From the perspective of a large chunk of the US electorate (and the entirity of the Trump voting electorate) any vote against Donny is just more proof that the system is out to get then. So, even with conclusive proof the likelihood ia that the Senate won't convict - and even if somehow you did get the supermajority that would just be more proof that they're put to get him.

There are precisely zero scenarios that Donnt doesn't pick up 35-40% at the next election as a minimum. Maybe if he's actually in jail he might only get 25%


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:51 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Just been looking at the whistleblowers report. There's literally no way that wasn't written by a fairly high end lawyer.

Some serious resourcing has gone into it.

Yeah. One theory I've seen is it's a bunch of people behind one person.

I will piss myself laughing if it's Bolton.


Well, it looks to be the work of a deep neo-con. And if that's the case, then for the Dems it might be a case of, as BAP says: "It is important not to be misled by a fierce debate with a stupid opponent into just accepting the only other alternative that is presented to you."

Ukraine is rotten, and people really do not want uncovered what went on there. It goes right to the heart of the entire issue and the fissure that is going to one day tear America apart.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:52 pm 
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Saint wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Image

Key word is IF, but even at that Trump is going to have to work hard to convince them.


In that sense it's irrelevant. From the perspective of a large chunk of the US electorate (and the entirity of the Trump voting electorate) any vote against Donny is just more proof that the system is out to get then. So, even with conclusive proof the likelihood ia that the Senate won't convict - and even if somehow you did get the supermajority that would just be more proof that they're put to get him.

There are precisely zero scenarios that Donnt doesn't pick up 35-40% at the next election as a minimum. Maybe if he's actually in jail he might only get 25%


35% in jail.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:54 pm 
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This is making even trump haters like Kevin Williamson realise they're going to have to pull the lever for trump.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:56 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Saint wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Image

Key word is IF, but even at that Trump is going to have to work hard to convince them.


In that sense it's irrelevant. From the perspective of a large chunk of the US electorate (and the entirity of the Trump voting electorate) any vote against Donny is just more proof that the system is out to get then. So, even with conclusive proof the likelihood ia that the Senate won't convict - and even if somehow you did get the supermajority that would just be more proof that they're put to get him.

There are precisely zero scenarios that Donnt doesn't pick up 35-40% at the next election as a minimum. Maybe if he's actually in jail he might only get 25%


35% in jail.


Nah, he'll lose at least 5% fir being in jail. Might lick up a couple of points fro.druggiez who recognise one of their own tjough


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:57 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Image

Quote:
Yea he knew who he was talking to. said he known the codes?

Communication is probabilistic. In my theory there are 5 main steps involved in spoken comunication:
1. Ordering the mind to give a coherent message
2. Translating what is in the mind into the right words
3. Saying those words
4. The listener hearing all of the words
5. The listener understanding all of the words in the same way as the communicator meant them

At any point there might be a breakdown in one or more steps such that what the communicator intends to communicate is actually miscommunicated or misunderstood.

Even writing this will be to much for some on here to understand.


Please go back to step 1.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:07 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
The taflon Don may have met his match this time.

This time. Not the last few times, but this time...must be it. :nod:

You think must or are you just being a tosser. Just asked as it's not what I said.

BTW

Are you still pretending not to be a supporter ?

There are no "supporters" in this mess. Of the two, I will vote republican so by default I guess that makes me a Trump supporter right. Impossible to vote republican and not be default be voting for him. Either Repub or independent I guess would be my vote. Make of it what you will.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:08 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Finished watching the session with the acting DNI and the usual back and forth. One take away that was the DNI said it was Congress's job to investigate and Schiff laid a clear platform that they need to investigate. Regardless of anything else the Dems are retaining that moral high ground here. Trump can't just deflect behind a barrage of witch hunt accusations.


Schiff is not a sane or well man.



This is when you know Sen realises the position is indefensible


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:12 pm 
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BokJock wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Finished watching the session with the acting DNI and the usual back and forth. One take away that was the DNI said it was Congress's job to investigate and Schiff laid a clear platform that they need to investigate. Regardless of anything else the Dems are retaining that moral high ground here. Trump can't just deflect behind a barrage of witch hunt accusations.


Schiff is not a sane or well man.



This is when you know Sen realises the position is indefensible


Schiff is the guy who spent two years flat out lying to everyone over Russia. Think how many poor old people watching msnbc out in arizona have died broken people because they got their hope up on the back of Schiff walking out of secure rooms and telling them he had seen secret documments that were sending trump down. A liar of that sort is truly insane.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:12 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
The taflon Don may have met his match this time.

This time. Not the last few times, but this time...must be it. :nod:

You think must or are you just being a tosser. Just asked as it's not what I said.

BTW

Are you still pretending not to be a supporter ?

There are no "supporters" in this mess. Of the two, I will vote republican so by default I guess that makes me a Trump supporter right. Impossible to vote republican and not be default be voting for him. Either Repub or independent I guess would be my vote. Make of it what you will.


Saffer, you are a reasonable intelligent poster, you cannot possibly look at this and see anything other than what was an obvious attempt at extortion and election interference.

Ask yourself why Rudy was sent?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:14 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
BokJock wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Finished watching the session with the acting DNI and the usual back and forth. One take away that was the DNI said it was Congress's job to investigate and Schiff laid a clear platform that they need to investigate. Regardless of anything else the Dems are retaining that moral high ground here. Trump can't just deflect behind a barrage of witch hunt accusations.


Schiff is not a sane or well man.



This is when you know Sen realises the position is indefensible


Schiff is the guy who spent two years flat out lying to everyone over Russia. Think how many poor old people watching msnbc out in arizona have died broken people because they got their hope up on the back of Schiff walking out of secure rooms and telling them he had seen secret documments that were sending trump down. A liar of that sort is truly insane.


I can only assume the irony of the last sentence was deliberate


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:20 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
The taflon Don may have met his match this time.

This time. Not the last few times, but this time...must be it. :nod:

You think must or are you just being a tosser. Just asked as it's not what I said.

BTW

Are you still pretending not to be a supporter ?

There are no "supporters" in this mess. Of the two, I will vote republican so by default I guess that makes me a Trump supporter right. Impossible to vote republican and not be default be voting for him. Either Repub or independent I guess would be my vote. Make of it what you will.

Cuck


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:27 pm 
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BokJock wrote:
Saffer, you are a reasonable intelligent poster, you cannot possibly look at this and see anything other than what was an obvious attempt at extortion and election interference.

Ask yourself why Rudy was sent?

That phrase has been used SO many times already boet, for all the various other investigations and so far....nothing. Just saying. Happy to play the waiting game on this one as well ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:27 pm 
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NYT saying its a CIA agent. :lol: This is quite the story.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:36 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
This is making even trump haters like Kevin Williamson realise they're going to have to pull the lever for trump.

I'd watch him do the jig 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:42 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
BokJock wrote:
Saffer, you are a reasonable intelligent poster, you cannot possibly look at this and see anything other than what was an obvious attempt at extortion and election interference.

Ask yourself why Rudy was sent?

That phrase has been used So many times already boet, for all the various other investigations and so far....nothing. Just saying. Happy to play the waiting game on this one as well ;)


As an outsider with no skin in the game (other than a slightly odd fear that the entertainment might eventually come to an end and international politics will return to being relatively boring and predictable), it doesn't appear to me that this or the previous investigations came up with nothing. They actually appear to have come up with quite a lot.

The fact that they haven't generated the result that most would normally expect only proves that the American Political system is bonkers.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:46 pm 
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Because Paul Ryan was a spineless twat

Because the turtle is simply an awful awful human being

And because Trump has photos of Lyndsay


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