POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

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BillW
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by BillW »

sockwithaticket wrote:
BillW wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
easyray wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:Hydroxychoroquine is a standard anti-malaria prophylactic. Bought without even prescription, for many years, in Southern Africa
I myself have used it countless times when visiting malaria areas. Without medical warning at all...Effective against malaria, it seems.

Zinc is a standard supplement. Food.

Why slate DT for taking anti malaria pills and zinc ? FFS, libtards are crazy ....
Common hydroxychloroquine side effects include:

headache, dizziness;
nausea, vomiting, stomach pain;
loss of appetite, weight loss;
feeling nervous or irritable;
skin rash or itching; or.
hair loss (more so if orange).

The maleria in Washington DC must be severe if you are willing to risk those side effects.

Or he's just lying again
More likely that his medical advisers have given him a placebo to keep him happy.
Jeez you're not one of those anti-vaxxers as well are you Enzedder?
I'm intrigued as to how you interpreted that as even adjacent to anti-vaccination sentiment. Hydroxychloroquine isn't a vaccination and it's efficacy in assisting with Covid19 is, being generous, disputed.

To me it clearly implies that Trump has been bugging his doctor(s) about getting some hydroxychloroquine and has ignored attempts to explain to him that it's not a good idea and so have stuck him on a placebo, allowing him to think it's the hydroxy, just to shut him up.
Anti-vaxxers exaggerate the side effects to make then seem worse than the disease.
I guess it's just a side effect of being stupid.
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Raggs
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Raggs »

BillW wrote:Anti-vaxxers exaggerate the side effects to make then seem worse than the disease.
I guess it's just a side effect of being stupid.
But vaccines have been repeatedly proven to work against the diseases... otherwise their side effects wouldn't be acceptable either.
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Mr Mike
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Mr Mike »

Mr Mike wrote:
piquant wrote:
Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Texas AG: We'll imprison people who warn about getting covid while voting
The Attorney General of Texas, Ken Paxton, has threatened Texans with prison if they publicly state their belief that the coronavirus pandemic means that everyone should be casting postal votes to avoid getting infected.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... Letter.pdf

His argument: the risk of covid infection is not a disability under relevant laws. Therefore, if you say people should apply for a mail-in ballot, you violate Texas law prohibiting "intentionally causing false information to be provided on an application for ballot by mail."

The penalty for violating TEX. ELEC. CODE § 84.004 is "a state jail felony," carrying 6mos-2yrs in jail and up to $10,000 in fines.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200 ... home.shtml
https://pluralistic.net/2020/04/21/all- ... ken-paxton
Anti-education, anti-knowledge, pro belief based lunacy for the win.
That’s laying it on a little thick, I’d just describe the summary article as misleading and pandering to pre-existing prejudices (ok there’s your “pro belief based lunacy” I suppose) rather than anti-education, anti-knowledge.

A quick read of the Paxton letter and the distortion is apparent. Don’t misrepresent your fear of getting COVID as a sickness (see statutory definition of Disability) on the relevant form and you don’t commit an offense. If someone encourages you to make such a misrepresentation then they MAY be guilty of an offense. The quoted language cuts off Paxton’s qualifying language on specific circumstances. Because of the knowledge elements of the offense some people will apply innocently for the forms based on a misunderstanding of the ground, no foul.

I long for a truth based world once again where we stop seeing this kind of nonsense being perpetuated, but unfortunately this sickness* of distortion has infected so many on all parts of the political spectrum.

* Please note “Sickness” is used colloquially and does not in these circumstances qualify readers to apply for postal voting forms in any jurisdiction, including but not limited to the great state of Texas.
For those interested in an update, the Judge moved the focus from illness to “physical condition” and ruled that an absence of COVID immunity is a qualifying physical condition (Rather than an illness) and justifies issuing a postal ballot. The 74 page decision from a “Clinton judge” be appealed pretty quickly but some nice arguments to pivot away from fear of catching it as a “sickness”.

Not as good as his “itsy bitsy teeny weeny bikini top” decision.
Cabbage
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Cabbage »

Unusual for the big baby to have not yet responded to Howard Stern's claim that he would be disgusted by his followers and that they wouldn't be allowed anywhere near mar-a-lago. He picks his battles carefully. Stern speaks his language and that scares him.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by BokJock »

Cabbage wrote:Unusual for the big baby to have not yet responded to Howard Stern's claim that he would be disgusted by his followers and that they wouldn't be allowed anywhere near mar-a-lago. He picks his battles carefully. Stern speaks his language and that scares him.
Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

He either says they would be welcome and he is over run by the mouth breathers that vote for him.

or he tells the truth, that they would be welcome....through the servants entrance and only for as long as their shift lasts.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Floppykid »

BokJock wrote:
Cabbage wrote:Unusual for the big baby to have not yet responded to Howard Stern's claim that he would be disgusted by his followers and that they wouldn't be allowed anywhere near mar-a-lago. He picks his battles carefully. Stern speaks his language and that scares him.
Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

He either says they would be welcome and he is over run by the mouth breathers that vote for him.

or he tells the truth, that they would be welcome....through the servants entrance and only for as long as their shift lasts.
They'd thank him and kiss his feet for it anyway.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Anonymous 1 »

BillW wrote:Anti-vaxxers exaggerate the side effects to make then seem worse than the disease.
I guess it's just a side effect of being stupid.
There is risk with no reward. That makes it mental
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Rinkals
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Rinkals »

BillW wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
BillW wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
easyray wrote:
Common hydroxychloroquine side effects include:

headache, dizziness;
nausea, vomiting, stomach pain;
loss of appetite, weight loss;
feeling nervous or irritable;
skin rash or itching; or.
hair loss (more so if orange).

The maleria in Washington DC must be severe if you are willing to risk those side effects.

Or he's just lying again
More likely that his medical advisers have given him a placebo to keep him happy.
Jeez you're not one of those anti-vaxxers as well are you Enzedder?
I'm intrigued as to how you interpreted that as even adjacent to anti-vaccination sentiment. Hydroxychloroquine isn't a vaccination and it's efficacy in assisting with Covid19 is, being generous, disputed.

To me it clearly implies that Trump has been bugging his doctor(s) about getting some hydroxychloroquine and has ignored attempts to explain to him that it's not a good idea and so have stuck him on a placebo, allowing him to think it's the hydroxy, just to shut him up.
Anti-vaxxers exaggerate the side effects to make then seem worse than the disease.
I guess it's just a side effect of being stupid.
One has to pressume, from your dismissal of the of the list of side effects as "stupid" that you are sufficiently well qualified as a medical practitioner to denounce them as such?
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6.Jones
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by 6.Jones »

I haven't been able to follow this thread recently, but is BillW seriously equating hydroxychloroquine scepticism to the anti-vaccine movement? That's fairly cake takey. It takes quite some cojones to come out publicly as an idiot in support of the Don. :thumbup:
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Saint
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Saint »

It seems Donny is now considering hosting the G7 in person at Camp David, even though arrangements have already been made to run it over video. Apparently it will be a good sign - a "Return to Normality" - while 1500 US citizens continue to die each day.

The New Normal
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Floppykid »

Saint wrote:It seems Donny is now considering hosting the G7 in person at Camp David, even though arrangements have already been made to run it over video. Apparently it will be a good sign - a "Return to Normality" - while 1500 US citizens continue to die each day.

The New Normal
Same as any other president though.,
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Rinkals
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Rinkals »

BokJock wrote:I see they have rolled out Eric onto the campaign trail and he is pushing the "Coronavirus is a Democratic Hoax" angle hard.

"it is a cognizant strategy"

"it will magically disappear on November 3rd"
I suppose, Don Jnr is next in line in the succession? or Ivanka. Then it's Eric.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Rinkals wrote:
BokJock wrote:I see they have rolled out Eric onto the campaign trail and he is pushing the "Coronavirus is a Democratic Hoax" angle hard.

"it is a cognizant strategy"

"it will magically disappear on November 3rd"
I suppose, Don Jnr is next in line in the succession? or Ivanka. Then it's Eric.
Looks like Ivanka for sure if he can't get a third term (yes seriously).
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Rinkals
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Rinkals »

Anonymous. wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
BokJock wrote:I see they have rolled out Eric onto the campaign trail and he is pushing the "Coronavirus is a Democratic Hoax" angle hard.

"it is a cognizant strategy"

"it will magically disappear on November 3rd"
I suppose, Don Jnr is next in line in the succession? or Ivanka. Then it's Eric.
Looks like Ivanka for sure if he can't get a third term (yes seriously).
Oddly enough, Donald Junior has more support.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ction-poll

Mind you, it's not a joking matter:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/donald-trump-jr-vs-ivanka
Speaking at a California Republican convention on Saturday, Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale declared that “the Trumps will be a dynasty that lasts for decades”—a chilling proclamation made only slightly less terrifying by what followed. Donald Trump’s children and their spouses have “amazing capabilities,” Parscale explained. “I think you see that from Don Jr. I think you see that from Ivanka. You see it from Jared. You see it from all.”
(God help us)
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Saint
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Saint »

Rinkals wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
BokJock wrote:I see they have rolled out Eric onto the campaign trail and he is pushing the "Coronavirus is a Democratic Hoax" angle hard.

"it is a cognizant strategy"

"it will magically disappear on November 3rd"
I suppose, Don Jnr is next in line in the succession? or Ivanka. Then it's Eric.
Looks like Ivanka for sure if he can't get a third term (yes seriously).
Oddly enough, Donald Junior has more support.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ction-poll

Mind you, it's not a joking matter:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/donald-trump-jr-vs-ivanka
Speaking at a California Republican convention on Saturday, Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale declared that “the Trumps will be a dynasty that lasts for decades”—a chilling proclamation made only slightly less terrifying by what followed. Donald Trump’s children and their spouses have “amazing capabilities,” Parscale explained. “I think you see that from Don Jr. I think you see that from Ivanka. You see it from Jared. You see it from all.”
(God help us)
COuld be interesting. Supposedly the background to sacking the State Department IG was that Pompeo was starting to line up a run in 2024
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fishfoodie
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by fishfoodie »

Rinkals wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
BokJock wrote:I see they have rolled out Eric onto the campaign trail and he is pushing the "Coronavirus is a Democratic Hoax" angle hard.

"it is a cognizant strategy"

"it will magically disappear on November 3rd"
I suppose, Don Jnr is next in line in the succession? or Ivanka. Then it's Eric.
Looks like Ivanka for sure if he can't get a third term (yes seriously).
Oddly enough, Donald Junior has more support.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ction-poll

Mind you, it's not a joking matter:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/donald-trump-jr-vs-ivanka
Speaking at a California Republican convention on Saturday, Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale declared that “the Trumps will be a dynasty that lasts for decades”—a chilling proclamation made only slightly less terrifying by what followed. Donald Trump’s children and their spouses have “amazing capabilities,” Parscale explained. “I think you see that from Don Jr. I think you see that from Ivanka. You see it from Jared. You see it from all.”
(God help us)
I think the FDA needs to update the data sheets for hydroxychloroquine.

It seems that a large scale test, now shows that mixing it, with regular injections of bleach, causes patients brains to liquefy & dribble out their arseholes.
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DOB
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by DOB »

Rinkals wrote: Mind you, it's not a joking matter:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/donald-trump-jr-vs-ivanka
Speaking at a California Republican convention on Saturday, Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale declared that “the Trumps will be a dynasty that lasts for decades”—a chilling proclamation made only slightly less terrifying by what followed. Donald Trump’s children and their spouses have “amazing capabilities,” Parscale explained. “I think you see that from Don Jr. I think you see that from Ivanka. You see it from Jared. You see it from all.”
(God help us)
Look who they're quoting. The guy whose job it is to push the Trump mythos, not exactly an impartial observer.

If Trump loses in November, watch the GOP scurry away from them.
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Mr Mike
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Mr Mike »

DOB wrote:
Rinkals wrote: Mind you, it's not a joking matter:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/donald-trump-jr-vs-ivanka
Speaking at a California Republican convention on Saturday, Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale declared that “the Trumps will be a dynasty that lasts for decades”—a chilling proclamation made only slightly less terrifying by what followed. Donald Trump’s children and their spouses have “amazing capabilities,” Parscale explained. “I think you see that from Don Jr. I think you see that from Ivanka. You see it from Jared. You see it from all.”
(God help us)
Look who they're quoting. The guy whose job it is to push the Trump mythos, not exactly an impartial observer.

If Trump loses in November, watch the GOP scurry away from them.
Yes, perhaps Chelsea is now tainted for good.

No one should be surprised about chatter over a Trump dynasty. We had Bush 1 and 2, Baby bro Jeb popping up and Nephew George making waves, Mr and Mrs Clinton and constant speculation about Michelle Obama. It is an awful fixation with brand not unique to modern times (further back the Adams Family and Camelot) and not limited to the US.

Baron should be pumped for 2044.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by BillW »

6.Jones wrote:I haven't been able to follow this thread recently, but is BillW seriously equating hydroxychloroquine scepticism to the anti-vaccine movement? That's fairly cake takey. It takes quite some cojones to come out publicly as an idiot in support of the Don. :thumbup:
A balanced individual would see that the rather mild side side effects of a drug that has been freely available for about fifty years do not compare in severity to covid-19.
This is the type of dishonesty that anti-vaxxers use to promote arguments.
It's got nothing to do with Trump.

The fact that an idiot who left school at fourteen years old has to explain this to university graduate, shows how serious the side effects of TDS can be.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Thomas »

BillW wrote:
6.Jones wrote:I haven't been able to follow this thread recently, but is BillW seriously equating hydroxychloroquine scepticism to the anti-vaccine movement? That's fairly cake takey. It takes quite some cojones to come out publicly as an idiot in support of the Don. :thumbup:
A balanced individual would see that the rather mild side side effects of a drug that has been freely available for about fifty years do not compare in severity to covid-19.
This is the type of dishonesty that anti-vaxxers use to promote arguments.
It's got nothing to do with Trump.

The fact that an idiot who left school at fourteen years old has to explain this to university graduate, shows how serious the side effects of TDS can be.
Oh, so you're just trolling.

Good show, jolly pip.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by fonzeee »

Rinkals wrote:Oddly enough, Donald Junior has more support.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ction-poll
That's an interesting link, thanks for posting.

It makes sense that Don Jr. would be higher than Ivanka with the faithful. He's playing to the same crowd with his book and tweets etc., plus he has more of an everyman personae with all the hunting and fishing stuff he's always doing.

Ivanka appeals more to the people who will never vote for a Trump anyway. She seems pretty sharp though and probably wouldn't make a worse president than the likes of Michelle Obama and other random chicks whose names are tossed into the discussion for no real good reason.

As I've said before I always thought the first female president will come from the right. Although Joe's committed to picking a lady VP so if he wins I'll likely be proven wrong.
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Thomas
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Thomas »

https://twitter.com/RiegerReport/status ... 2198836225
“When you say per capita, there’s many per capitas. It’s like per capita relative to what? But you can look at just about any category and we’re really at the top”
WTF :lol:
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Kiwias »

Thomas wrote:https://twitter.com/RiegerReport/status ... 2198836225
“When you say per capita, there’s many per capitas. It’s like per capita relative to what? But you can look at just about any category and we’re really at the top”
WTF :lol:
The bill for a new keyboard is in the mail.
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fonzeee
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by fonzeee »

6.Jones wrote:The separation of the elites from the majority in America is actually much simpler than in other places. It's about wealth. Other factors like "coastal" and "urban" and "big oil" and "old money" are just proxies for the wealth divide. The poor hate the rich. The rich disdain the poor. Now add tribalism, so the poor on the right hate the rich on the left, and the rich on the left hate the poor on the right, and bingo... welcome to Donald Trump's America.
This is untrue. There is definitely a cultural divide between (at least) the coasts/flyover country and urban/suburban+rural that transcends wealth. The wealthy of Missouri and the wealthy of New England are worlds apart in terms of worldview, political beliefs, underlying cultural background (even if we only consider whites) and corresponding mores, religiosity, and probably more. I guess you could sum that all up as worldview.

You can kind of extrapolate this to the urban divide too since for all intents and purposes we really just don't have proper cities in places like Missouri like they do out here. (Chicago is probably the one flyover-located exception). Even highly populated places like Houston and Dallas are just not the same as places like Boston and New York, and ultimately the lifestyles and people reflect that.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Fat Old Git »

BillW wrote:
6.Jones wrote:I haven't been able to follow this thread recently, but is BillW seriously equating hydroxychloroquine scepticism to the anti-vaccine movement? That's fairly cake takey. It takes quite some cojones to come out publicly as an idiot in support of the Don. :thumbup:
A balanced individual would see that the rather mild side side effects of a drug that has been freely available for about fifty years do not compare in severity to covid-19.
This is the type of dishonesty that anti-vaxxers use to promote arguments.
It's got nothing to do with Trump.

The fact that an idiot who left school at fourteen years old has to explain this to university graduate, shows how serious the side effects of TDS can be.
A balanced individual would see that the studies so far show no measurable verifiable benefits for people suffering from Covid-19, and in some cases may in fact increase the risk to the patient. They show no evidence at all that it can prevent someone from getting it. And that it has a number of risks associated with it, even if for most people those risks are our outweighed by the benefits if used for the purpose it was originally intended for and has been approved for.

In summary, the studies so far show no benefits to balance out the risks in relation to it's use for Covid-19.

Anti-vaxxers are known for ignoring the science. Those you are accusing of suffering from TDS are not the ones ignoring the science.

Still, TDS is a great term. Like fake news it's a great way of dismissing something when you don't have a proper argument against it. Although it may have outlived it's usefulness as it's use is now generally seen as a sign of defeat.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Anonymous 1 »

DOB wrote:
Rinkals wrote: Mind you, it's not a joking matter:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/donald-trump-jr-vs-ivanka
Speaking at a California Republican convention on Saturday, Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale declared that “the Trumps will be a dynasty that lasts for decades”—a chilling proclamation made only slightly less terrifying by what followed. Donald Trump’s children and their spouses have “amazing capabilities,” Parscale explained. “I think you see that from Don Jr. I think you see that from Ivanka. You see it from Jared. You see it from all.”
(God help us)
Look who they're quoting. The guy whose job it is to push the Trump mythos, not exactly an impartial observer.

If Trump loses in November, watch the GOP scurry away from them.
If he loses he will be airbrushed from their history.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by fishfoodie »

A Balanced Individual would see that being obese was a potential death warrant; & would stop shoving cheeseburgers in his face.

A Balanced Individual would hear hundreds of public health experts saying that people would be safer; if everyone wore masks; AND WOULD WEAR A FUCKING MASK IN A FUCKING MASK FACTORY !!!!!
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by fonzeee »

A few days late and dollars short as always but what the hell...
6.Jones wrote:It's one view of politics: of rule by continuous plebiscite, with the leader interpreting the continuous will of the people. That's like having an aircraft where the buttons in the cockpit are controlled by a plurality of buttons on people's seat arms. Who would get in an aircraft like that? Another, more traditional view is that the people elect parties who embody their politics, but are empowered to lead, and are held responsible for coming up with policies that work in the real world. It's to America's great cost that it has recently chosen the first system over the second. They might struggle to get the other one back.
Ah, the old delegate vs. trustee model of representation debate. While in most cases I think pretty much everyone would favor the trustee model, in order for it to work you need 1) savvy political players, actual technocrats who know how to devise policy (or at least source the appropriate think tank) and get it across the line intact, and 2) a focused and clear common direction that the trustee knows to act upon; a window of permissible policy destinations that most in the mainstream will be comfortable with or at least consider acceptable, even if they don't like it. Right now we have neither.

The reason we're in this mess though is that our leaders could not be bothered to consider any sort of policy that fell outside of their narrow (read: uni-party establishment) definition of workable real-world policy. We were just told this is the 21st century, sorry, nothing we can do about it. Trade, foreign policy, immigration, automation, you name it. So the public broke the emergency glass and now the guy who hosted The Apprentice is our president.

Seneca of the Night wrote:No, I think it demonstrates the key role of public policy. The governing party can legislate almost anything. But actually making it stick is more difficult. If you want to effect permanent change in the political culture it seems to me you have to come at it from a long way back. That's why we have think tanks, among other things.

The best example of this I can think of is New Zealand's radical nuclear free policy in the 80s. It had a long runup, but nonetheless was still controversial and dramatic at the time, with inevitable negative consequences. But it stuck, and successive National govts didn't even think about changing it.

On the reverse side the general consensus about low inflation targetting by central banks since about that time has been public policy success for the right across the west, though that seems to be collapsing around us.

Short of it is this: your opponents will just reverse out ill-thought out and rammed through legislation that doesn't have solid grounding. I don't believe Obama's administration had much persuasion in the way of public policy, but some things will certainly stick like gay marriage (supreme court, but on his watch).

There is of course the 'Nixon to China' situation that suggest that true lasting change comes from the opposite party you might think it would. In those cases the groundwork is complete, and all that remains is knocking the ball over the line. That stuff really sticks. In the case of NZ (and Australia) the economic reforms of the 80s fall into that category.

But I take your point about the plebiscites. It's been a disaster for American foreign policy, as leaders just cannot trust Washington as one admin after another changes positions on the vine, and Colonel Gaddafi getting a poker stuffed up his jacksy stands as a testamount to the dangers of the situation. Rogue (independent?) states and leaders now think they are best just tooling up.
Good post. I think this also goes a long way towards explaining how the Clinton administration managed to basically be the one that drove home the uni-party establishment status quo; when the Dems went neoliberal (or whatever it's called, you know what I'm talking about), that pretty much set things in stone for two decades. There were dissenters (see Ralph Nader; there's an interesting documentary on him on Hulu that has a gold mine of amazing quotes that illustrate the political climate of the time), but for the most part everyone just nodded their head and carried on. Even (especially?) most of those who'd be most damaged by these developments as time progressed.
Last edited by fonzeee on Thu May 21, 2020 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Flockwitt
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flockwitt »

Anonymous. wrote:
DOB wrote:
Rinkals wrote: Mind you, it's not a joking matter:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/donald-trump-jr-vs-ivanka
Speaking at a California Republican convention on Saturday, Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale declared that “the Trumps will be a dynasty that lasts for decades”—a chilling proclamation made only slightly less terrifying by what followed. Donald Trump’s children and their spouses have “amazing capabilities,” Parscale explained. “I think you see that from Don Jr. I think you see that from Ivanka. You see it from Jared. You see it from all.”
(God help us)
Look who they're quoting. The guy whose job it is to push the Trump mythos, not exactly an impartial observer.

If Trump loses in November, watch the GOP scurry away from them.
If he loses he will be airbrushed from their history.
^ this.

The question will be though who will look to take up the mantle of the nutjob right. They've seen it work. There'll still be every culture war proponent looking to emulate what Trump did vowing to carry on the fight to the bitter end, by any means. The template has been laid. How the moderate republicans deal with it who knows, they've got enough trouble already trying not to bend too far or be labelled the heretical.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by kiwinoz »

Guardian tells left "this is not the droid you are looking for"
Andrew Cuomo is no hero. He's to blame for New York's coronavirus catastrophe

His record was terrible before coronavirus, but his abysmal handling of the crisis should get him thrown out of office

Some Democrats have discussed him as a possible replacement for Joe Biden, due to Biden’s perceived weakness as a nominee. And there have even been some unfortunate tributes to Cuomo’s alleged sex appeal.

All of which is bizarre, because Cuomo should be one of the most loathed officials in America right now. ProPublica recently released a report outlining catastrophic missteps by Cuomo and the New York City mayor, Bill de Blasio, which probably resulted in many thousands of needless coronavirus cases. ProPublica offers some appalling numbers contrasting what happened in New York with the outbreak in California. By mid-May, New York City alone had almost 20,000 deaths, while in San Francisco there had been only 35, and New York state as a whole suffered 10 times as many deaths as California.
He pushed Co-Vid patients out of hospitals into nursing homes meanwhile the medic ship and temp hospitals stood empty. But he said "orange man bad" so he is a great person
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merry!
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

kiwinoz wrote:Guardian tells left "this is not the droid you are looking for"
Andrew Cuomo is no hero. He's to blame for New York's coronavirus catastrophe

His record was terrible before coronavirus, but his abysmal handling of the crisis should get him thrown out of office

Some Democrats have discussed him as a possible replacement for Joe Biden, due to Biden’s perceived weakness as a nominee. And there have even been some unfortunate tributes to Cuomo’s alleged sex appeal.

All of which is bizarre, because Cuomo should be one of the most loathed officials in America right now. ProPublica recently released a report outlining catastrophic missteps by Cuomo and the New York City mayor, Bill de Blasio, which probably resulted in many thousands of needless coronavirus cases. ProPublica offers some appalling numbers contrasting what happened in New York with the outbreak in California. By mid-May, New York City alone had almost 20,000 deaths, while in San Francisco there had been only 35, and New York state as a whole suffered 10 times as many deaths as California.
He pushed Co-Vid patients out of hospitals into nursing homes meanwhile the medic ship and temp hospitals stood empty. But he said "orange man bad" so he is a great person
yeah, but orange man isn't as tall as he says, and he's fat, and he's a moron and he's on hydroxy (or he might not be) and...and...we're all laughing at him. honest, we're laughing.

not frothing.
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kiwinoz
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by kiwinoz »

Fat Old Git wrote:
BillW wrote:
6.Jones wrote:I haven't been able to follow this thread recently, but is BillW seriously equating hydroxychloroquine scepticism to the anti-vaccine movement? That's fairly cake takey. It takes quite some cojones to come out publicly as an idiot in support of the Don. :thumbup:
A balanced individual would see that the rather mild side side effects of a drug that has been freely available for about fifty years do not compare in severity to covid-19.
This is the type of dishonesty that anti-vaxxers use to promote arguments.
It's got nothing to do with Trump.

The fact that an idiot who left school at fourteen years old has to explain this to university graduate, shows how serious the side effects of TDS can be.
A balanced individual would see that the studies so far show no measurable verifiable benefits for people suffering from Covid-19, and in some cases may in fact increase the risk to the patient. They show no evidence at all that it can prevent someone from getting it. And that it has a number of risks associated with it, even if for most people those risks are our outweighed by the benefits if used for the purpose it was originally intended for and has been approved for.

In summary, the studies so far show no benefits to balance out the risks in relation to it's use for Covid-19.


Anti-vaxxers are known for ignoring the science. Those you are accusing of suffering from TDS are not the ones ignoring the science.

Still, TDS is a great term. Like fake news it's a great way of dismissing something when you don't have a proper argument against it. Although it may have outlived it's usefulness as it's use is now generally seen as a sign of defeat.
That is incorrect. HCQ has very few side effects in reality but here as a comparison is what is listed for aspirin.
Abdominal or stomach pain, cramping, or burning
black, tarry stools
bloody or cloudy urine
change in consciousness
chest pain or discomfort
confusion
constipation
convulsions, severe or continuing
dark urine
decreased frequency or amount of urine
diarrhea
difficult breathing
drowsiness
fainting
fast breathing
feeling that something terrible will happen
fever
general tiredness and weakness
greatly decreased frequency of urination or amount of urine
headache
heartburn
increased thirst
indigestion
irregular heartbeat
light-colored stools
loss of appetite
loss of consciousness
lower back or side pain
muscle cramping and weakness
muscle tremors
nausea or vomiting
nervousness
numbness or tingling in the hands, feet, or lips
panic
rapid, deep breathing
restlessness
seizures
skin rash
stomach cramps
swelling of the face, fingers, or lower legs
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual tiredness or weakness
vomiting of blood or material that looks like coffee grounds
weakness or heaviness of the legs
weight gain
yellow eyes and skin
WHO listed HCQ as safe pre Co-Vid (I will find the study) and most of the HCQ studies done show many forms of bias of statistical manipulation ie not double blind etc.
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Ted.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Ted. »

Mr Mike wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:
piquant wrote:
Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Texas AG: We'll imprison people who warn about getting covid while voting
The Attorney General of Texas, Ken Paxton, has threatened Texans with prison if they publicly state their belief that the coronavirus pandemic means that everyone should be casting postal votes to avoid getting infected.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... Letter.pdf

His argument: the risk of covid infection is not a disability under relevant laws. Therefore, if you say people should apply for a mail-in ballot, you violate Texas law prohibiting "intentionally causing false information to be provided on an application for ballot by mail."

The penalty for violating TEX. ELEC. CODE § 84.004 is "a state jail felony," carrying 6mos-2yrs in jail and up to $10,000 in fines.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200 ... home.shtml
https://pluralistic.net/2020/04/21/all- ... ken-paxton
Anti-education, anti-knowledge, pro belief based lunacy for the win.
That’s laying it on a little thick, I’d just describe the summary article as misleading and pandering to pre-existing prejudices (ok there’s your “pro belief based lunacy” I suppose) rather than anti-education, anti-knowledge.

A quick read of the Paxton letter and the distortion is apparent. Don’t misrepresent your fear of getting COVID as a sickness (see statutory definition of Disability) on the relevant form and you don’t commit an offense. If someone encourages you to make such a misrepresentation then they MAY be guilty of an offense. The quoted language cuts off Paxton’s qualifying language on specific circumstances. Because of the knowledge elements of the offense some people will apply innocently for the forms based on a misunderstanding of the ground, no foul.

I long for a truth based world once again where we stop seeing this kind of nonsense being perpetuated, but unfortunately this sickness* of distortion has infected so many on all parts of the political spectrum.

* Please note “Sickness” is used colloquially and does not in these circumstances qualify readers to apply for postal voting forms in any jurisdiction, including but not limited to the great state of Texas.
For those interested in an update, the Judge moved the focus from illness to “physical condition” and ruled that an absence of COVID immunity is a qualifying physical condition (Rather than an illness) and justifies issuing a postal ballot. The 74 page decision from a “Clinton judge” be appealed pretty quickly but some nice arguments to pivot away from fear of catching it as a “sickness”.

Not as good as his “itsy bitsy teeny weeny bikini top” decision.
Cheers Mike. Do tell re the above.
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puku
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by puku »

kiwinoz wrote: WHO listed HCQ as safe pre Co-Vid (I will find the study) and most of the HCQ studies done show many forms of bias of statistical manipulation ie not double blind etc.
That is not an example of statistical manipulation; it would be part of the experimental design ie a retrospective study or an observational one or a clinical trial that may or may not have placebos or be double blind to the researchers.

All have merit.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Fat Old Git »

kiwinoz wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
BillW wrote:
6.Jones wrote:I haven't been able to follow this thread recently, but is BillW seriously equating hydroxychloroquine scepticism to the anti-vaccine movement? That's fairly cake takey. It takes quite some cojones to come out publicly as an idiot in support of the Don. :thumbup:
A balanced individual would see that the rather mild side side effects of a drug that has been freely available for about fifty years do not compare in severity to covid-19.
This is the type of dishonesty that anti-vaxxers use to promote arguments.
It's got nothing to do with Trump.

The fact that an idiot who left school at fourteen years old has to explain this to university graduate, shows how serious the side effects of TDS can be.
A balanced individual would see that the studies so far show no measurable verifiable benefits for people suffering from Covid-19, and in some cases may in fact increase the risk to the patient. They show no evidence at all that it can prevent someone from getting it. And that it has a number of risks associated with it, even if for most people those risks are our outweighed by the benefits if used for the purpose it was originally intended for and has been approved for.

In summary, the studies so far show no benefits to balance out the risks in relation to it's use for Covid-19.


Anti-vaxxers are known for ignoring the science. Those you are accusing of suffering from TDS are not the ones ignoring the science.

Still, TDS is a great term. Like fake news it's a great way of dismissing something when you don't have a proper argument against it. Although it may have outlived it's usefulness as it's use is now generally seen as a sign of defeat.
That is incorrect. HCQ has very few side effects in reality but here as a comparison is what is listed for aspirin.
Abdominal or stomach pain, cramping, or burning
black, tarry stools
bloody or cloudy urine
change in consciousness
chest pain or discomfort
confusion
constipation
convulsions, severe or continuing
dark urine
decreased frequency or amount of urine
diarrhea
difficult breathing
drowsiness
fainting
fast breathing
feeling that something terrible will happen
fever
general tiredness and weakness
greatly decreased frequency of urination or amount of urine
headache
heartburn
increased thirst
indigestion
irregular heartbeat
light-colored stools
loss of appetite
loss of consciousness
lower back or side pain
muscle cramping and weakness
muscle tremors
nausea or vomiting
nervousness
numbness or tingling in the hands, feet, or lips
panic
rapid, deep breathing
restlessness
seizures
skin rash
stomach cramps
swelling of the face, fingers, or lower legs
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual tiredness or weakness
vomiting of blood or material that looks like coffee grounds
weakness or heaviness of the legs
weight gain
yellow eyes and skin
WHO listed HCQ as safe pre Co-Vid (I will find the study) and most of the HCQ studies done show many forms of bias of statistical manipulation ie not double blind etc.

That doesn't show a benefit to outweigh the known risks, or show that the statement you have highlighted is incorrect.

"In summary, the studies so far show no benefits to balance out the risks in relation to it's use for Covid-19."
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by sorCrer »

BillW wrote:The fact that an idiot who left school at fourteen years old.
:o
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Rinkals
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Rinkals »

Mr Mike wrote:
DOB wrote:
Rinkals wrote: Mind you, it's not a joking matter:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/donald-trump-jr-vs-ivanka
Speaking at a California Republican convention on Saturday, Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale declared that “the Trumps will be a dynasty that lasts for decades”—a chilling proclamation made only slightly less terrifying by what followed. Donald Trump’s children and their spouses have “amazing capabilities,” Parscale explained. “I think you see that from Don Jr. I think you see that from Ivanka. You see it from Jared. You see it from all.”
(God help us)
Look who they're quoting. The guy whose job it is to push the Trump mythos, not exactly an impartial observer.

If Trump loses in November, watch the GOP scurry away from them.
Yes, perhaps Chelsea is now tainted for good.

No one should be surprised about chatter over a Trump dynasty. We had Bush 1 and 2, Baby bro Jeb popping up and Nephew George making waves, Mr and Mrs Clinton and constant speculation about Michelle Obama. It is an awful fixation with brand not unique to modern times (further back the Adams Family and Camelot) and not limited to the US.

Baron should be pumped for 2044.
If there's anything left by then.
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Rinkals
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Rinkals »

sorCrer wrote:
BillW wrote:The fact that an idiot who left school at fourteen years old.
:o
University of Youtube and Facebook.
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Leinster in London
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Leinster in London »

kiwinoz wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
BillW wrote:
6.Jones wrote:I haven't been able to follow this thread recently, but is BillW seriously equating hydroxychloroquine scepticism to the anti-vaccine movement? That's fairly cake takey. It takes quite some cojones to come out publicly as an idiot in support of the Don. :thumbup:
A balanced individual would see that the rather mild side side effects of a drug that has been freely available for about fifty years do not compare in severity to covid-19.
This is the type of dishonesty that anti-vaxxers use to promote arguments.
It's got nothing to do with Trump.

The fact that an idiot who left school at fourteen years old has to explain this to university graduate, shows how serious the side effects of TDS can be.
A balanced individual would see that the studies so far show no measurable verifiable benefits for people suffering from Covid-19, and in some cases may in fact increase the risk to the patient. They show no evidence at all that it can prevent someone from getting it. And that it has a number of risks associated with it, even if for most people those risks are our outweighed by the benefits if used for the purpose it was originally intended for and has been approved for.

In summary, the studies so far show no benefits to balance out the risks in relation to it's use for Covid-19.


Anti-vaxxers are known for ignoring the science. Those you are accusing of suffering from TDS are not the ones ignoring the science.

Still, TDS is a great term. Like fake news it's a great way of dismissing something when you don't have a proper argument against it. Although it may have outlived it's usefulness as it's use is now generally seen as a sign of defeat.
That is incorrect. HCQ has very few side effects in reality but here as a comparison is what is listed for aspirin.
Abdominal or stomach pain, cramping, or burning
black, tarry stools
bloody or cloudy urine
change in consciousness
chest pain or discomfort
confusion
constipation
convulsions, severe or continuing
dark urine
decreased frequency or amount of urine
diarrhea
difficult breathing
drowsiness
fainting
fast breathing
feeling that something terrible will happen
fever
general tiredness and weakness
greatly decreased frequency of urination or amount of urine
headache
heartburn
increased thirst
indigestion
irregular heartbeat
light-colored stools
loss of appetite
loss of consciousness
lower back or side pain
muscle cramping and weakness
muscle tremors
nausea or vomiting
nervousness
numbness or tingling in the hands, feet, or lips
panic
rapid, deep breathing
restlessness
seizures
skin rash
stomach cramps
swelling of the face, fingers, or lower legs
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual tiredness or weakness
vomiting of blood or material that looks like coffee grounds
weakness or heaviness of the legs
weight gain
yellow eyes and skin
WHO listed HCQ as safe pre Co-Vid (I will find the study) and most of the HCQ studies done show many forms of bias of statistical manipulation ie not double blind etc.
They're not fúcking sweets.
For sufferers of some diseases they do more good than bad. But when it gets to the stage of doing nothing good the small probability of the side effects is more dominant.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Big Nipper »

Thomas wrote:
BillW wrote:
6.Jones wrote:I haven't been able to follow this thread recently, but is BillW seriously equating hydroxychloroquine scepticism to the anti-vaccine movement? That's fairly cake takey. It takes quite some cojones to come out publicly as an idiot in support of the Don. :thumbup:
A balanced individual would see that the rather mild side side effects of a drug that has been freely available for about fifty years do not compare in severity to covid-19.
This is the type of dishonesty that anti-vaxxers use to promote arguments.
It's got nothing to do with Trump.

The fact that an idiot who left school at fourteen years old has to explain this to university graduate, shows how serious the side effects of TDS can be.
Oh, so you're just trolling.

Good show, jolly pip.
I have taken Hydroxy twice in my life, both whilst around 18yrs old (went to a Malaria area)

Let my tell you, the side effects are f**king atrocious, with hallucinations, poor sleep, and absolute hysteric fits at times

It really is not mild as some here would like you to think
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