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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 10:57 pm 
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4071 wrote:
piquant wrote:
4071 wrote:
Oh, by the way, on the subject of open corruption and abuse of power, did we do this yet?

Trump is threatening to block federal funding to Michigan if election officials there do not retreat from measures meant to facilitate mail-in voting. Basically a quid-pro-quo like Ukraine - withholding funds in order to secure a personal benefit. He's clearly learned his lesson.



It's a new one to me, and it sure reads like a clear cut case of corruption



Oh, on the corruption bit did we remember to cover the fact that Trump has fired the Department of Transportation's watchdog and Inspector General in the middle of an investigation of Elaine Chao, the wife of Mitch McConnell? The replacement is - of course - a Trump appointee who owes his current position to Mitch McConnell.


I hadn't heard that, but Chao is for sure a poster granny for corruption


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:15 pm 
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Masterji wrote:
The majority of Republican Presidents in my lifetime have all been thick and senile. Reagan was a total imbecile, Bush Jnr was plain thick and couldn't string sentence together and Trump has taken it to a new level of stupidity, not only is he thick, he can't string a coherent sentence together which makes sense or isnt full of lies. Only Bush snr was anywhere near what you expect as long as you kept him away from dodgy food.


Many Republicans distrust education.

Back in 2012 during the Republican primaries, Rick Santorum attacked Obama for saying that he wanted every American to get a college education and - more bizarrely - Newt Gingrich ran an ad that attacked his Republican rival Mitt Romney for being able to speak French.

There have long been two types of Republicans fighting for control of the party: those who are smart and wealthy and don't like paying taxes, and those who are basically morons - actively anti-education, anti-science, anti-enlightenment. And the morons have won. The smart ones who are still around are hoping to be able to get as much as possible from the chief moron while they can.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:27 pm 
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4071 wrote:
Masterji wrote:
The majority of Republican Presidents in my lifetime have all been thick and senile. Reagan was a total imbecile, Bush Jnr was plain thick and couldn't string sentence together and Trump has taken it to a new level of stupidity, not only is he thick, he can't string a coherent sentence together which makes sense or isnt full of lies. Only Bush snr was anywhere near what you expect as long as you kept him away from dodgy food.


Many Republicans distrust education.

Back in 2012 during the Republican primaries, Rick Santorum attacked Obama for saying that he wanted every American to get a college education and - more bizarrely - Newt Gingrich ran an ad that attacked his Republican rival Mitt Romney for being able to speak French.

There have long been two types of Republicans fighting for control of the party: those who are smart and wealthy and don't like paying taxes, and those who are basically morons - actively anti-education, anti-science, anti-enlightenment. And the morons have won. The smart ones who are still around are hoping to be able to get as much as possible from the chief moron while they can.


When you look back someone as decent as John McCain had to pander to these right wing arse holes,and only showed his class when he wasnt a candidate. He wasnt perfect but compared to tossers like Trump, Turtle neck etc, he looked like a guy that would have made a solid President.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:41 pm 
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freddie111 wrote:
The below analysis makes me sad.

Its writers are insightful, there are serious questions to be figured out and not all decisions were the best ones. E.g. the New York oriented media has been completely shrill and has not taken into account the fact that most of America is not New England. Every time I read an article about how crazy people are for not locking down, I check their location and it's always New York. So I understand where they are coming from, but North Dakota ain't New York!

But instead of using that insight to actually move the discussion forward ultimately the article only covers half the story, leaves out facts that might go against the aspirational headline and concludes in a party political broadcast that is complete whataboutery. They even have the balls to say they also stated that the death rate would be much higher but it is everyone else's fault.
American journalism is so shit :(

Tucker Carlson: There's no evidence coronavirus lockdowns saved lives. Mass quarantines may have killed people
By Tucker Carlson

Published May 22, 2020

Fox News
Spoiler: show
Get all the latest news on coronavirus and more delivered daily to your inbox. Sign up here.

It has now been 63 days -- we're keeping track -- since California became the first American state to issue a so-called shelter-in-place order for all citizens.

Governor Gavin Newsom's order was the beginning of an unprecedented coronavirus mass quarantine that has changed this country forever. In many ways, the United States is hard to recognize compared to just two months ago. Two months from now, it will be more different still.

DEMS MAKE BIG PUSH TO AID ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AMID CORONAVIRUS CRISIS

In fact, it may be years before we fully understand the effects of what our leaders have done in response to the Wuhan coronavirus. There are certain to be battles over how to interpret this moment many years from now. It's possible your children will hear only one version of the story. Uncomfortable facts by that point may have been scrubbed from social media platforms as disinformation.

So, while we can, we'd like to get on tape, for the record, some of what actually happened here.

The first thing to remember is that our leaders didn't simply revoke the country's constitutional rights one day from a cold start. They laid the groundwork first. They softened opposition by sowing fear.

On March 14, to name one among countless possible examples, a former Obama administration health official called Andy Slavitt predicted that just nine days from now, America's largest cities and hospitals would be "overrun with cases."

Now, Slavitt is not an epidemiologist. In fact, he is a former McKinsey consultant. But countless other self-described experts on television backed him up. A huge number of Americans, they told us, would get infected with the coronavirus, and a huge number would die and die in the ugliest most desperate way -- gasping for breath with tubes shoved down their throats.

CLICK HERE TO GET THE OPINION NEWSLETTER

Now at the time, the World Health Organization suggested that a million Americans would die this way. The WHO estimated a case fatality rate of 3.4 percent. It's horrifying. It scared the hell out of the country. It scared the hell out of us. I think we repeated those numbers to you on this show.

But they were totally wrong. We now know, thanks to widespread blood testing, that the virus isn't that deadly. An enormous percentage of coronavirus infections produce mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. They're asymptomatic. The death toll is a tiny fraction of what we were told it would be.

Cuomo's lockdown, like most in this country was modeled on the <a href="https://www.foxnews.com/category/world/world-regions/china" target="_blank">Chinese government</a>'s quarantine, their response to the Wuhan coronavirus -- which is odd if you think about it. Who decided that following the example of the country responsible for unleashing the pandemic was somehow good public health?

One study in Scotland estimated the real death rate could be 0.04 percent. Another in Miami Dade, Florida suggested 0.18 percent. The one in Los Angeles 0.06 percent. In fact, the highest figure we've been able to find from a credible blood test study comes from Spain, and it produced a death rate of just over 1 percent, and that's still far below what they told us it would be.

At the time, ambitious politicians understood instinctively that Americans were really scared, and some did their best to heighten that fear. Here's New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo telling his daily television audience that tens of thousands of Americans would die unless the Trump administration sent more ventilators.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo: FEMA says we're sending 400 ventilators. Really? What am I going to -- what am I going to do with 400 ventilators when I need 30,000? You pick the 26,000 people who are going to die because you only sent 400 ventilators.

This is why it pays to use a little restraint in your public statements because, as it turned out, New York had more than enough ventilators. Too many ventilators, really; some were never even used. But Cuomo didn't dwell on that. He blew right past it and spent most of the subsequent weeks discussing the vital importance of obeying his quarantine.

Cuomo's lockdown, like most in this country was modeled on the Chinese government's quarantine, their response to the Wuhan coronavirus -- which is odd if you think about it. Who decided that following the example of the country responsible for unleashing the pandemic was somehow good public health?

Well, they all thought that. Virtually, all of our leaders agreed the Chinese course was the only course. Dr. Anthony Fauci came on Fox Business to explain that actually, the Chinese government could be trusted.

David Asman, Fox Business' "Bulls & Bears" host: China has been known to fiddle with their stats before. Do you trust what they are telling us about this illness?

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases: From what I can see right now, they really are being much, much more transparent than what happened with SARS, where they really kept back information for a while. It was embarrassing to them.

They're really transparent now. They've put the sequence of the virus up on the public database right away. So, in that respect, they've been transparent.

Yes, because when you think of the Chinese Communist Party, transparent is the first word that comes to mind.

Even then, when Fauci said that, there were some informed and independent- minded Americans who had real questions about the wisdom of following the Chinese model. But over time, their views began to disappear from Twitter and YouTube and Facebook.

In their place, the media presented hardened political activists, people like Zeke Emanuel, and allowed them to pose as experts on virus mitigation.

Zeke Emanuel, Vice Provost for Global Initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania: Realistically, COVID-19 will be here for the next 18 months or more. We will not be able to return to normalcy until we find a vaccine or effective medications. Is all of that economic pain worth trying to stop COVID-19? The truth is, we have no choice.

"The truth is, we have no choice." Get a pen and write down that sentence for future reference. The next time you hear someone say it, run. "The truth is, we have no choice." When you hear that, you know, things are about to get much worse.

In fact, we always have a choice. A handful of political leaders made that choice. They decided to try a different approach, and then immediately -- and in unison -- they were denounced as enemies of the state.

When Georgia began to reopen some of its businesses in late April, The Atlantic magazine described that plan as "Georgia's experiment in human sacrifice." In the words of The Washington Post, Jeff Bezos's personal newspaper, "Georgia leads the race to become America's number one death destination." As if Jack Kevorkian had become the governor of Georgia.

And that was just in print. On television, the geniuses decided that relaxing the lockdowns would be far worse for Georgia than Sherman's March to the Sea.

Stacey Abrams, former Georgia gubernatorial candidate: This makes no sense and it doesn't improve our economy. It simply puts more Georgians at risk.

Chris Hayes, MSNBC host: If that sounds insane to you, you're not alone.

Mayors in Georgia are describing the governor's decision as reckless, dangerous and illogical.

Chris Cuomo, CNN anchor: Georgia may be doing too much too soon.

Don Lemon, CNN anchor: No matter what anybody tells you, no matter how many hopeful signs there may be, it's far too early to let down our guard. It's far too early to go back to the lives that we were living just last month.

And if that shocks you, it should.

Someday, unfortunately, that tape will be scrubbed off the internet. That's a shame.

Georgia is fine as it turns out. That was Don Lemon telling you Georgia is an incredibly dangerous place, and it had an effect.

"The truth is, we have no choice." Get a pen and write down that sentence for future reference. The next time you hear someone say it, run.

Imagine if you saw Don Lemon say that while being forced to watch CNN while waiting for a flight at an airport. Maybe you're headed to Atlanta. You'd be rattled by that -- of course, you would be. And rattling you was exactly the point of saying it. Stop thinking, obey. That was the message and was amplified day after day after day by outlets like CNN.

Watch this CNN anchor a month ago remind his audience that staying locked indoors was their moral duty.

Chris Cuomo: The only thing that has checked this contagion is our collective conscience to stay home together as ever, as one.

We know that is our true power. The question is, when will it really be put to this problem?

The one thing you never saw from these people -- these journalists -- was a straightforward discussion about whether or not lockdowns actually work. You'd think that would be the first thing they would talk about, but they didn't want to.

Hundreds of millions of people ordered to stay home, only go outside for essential reasons. Does forcing people to live like that really contain a virus? There are a lot of reasons actually to believe that it does not contain a virus. For example, forcing people into close quarters all day obviously increases the odds of infecting family members. The biggest studies on that have shown it.

Did you hear that? Ending the lockdowns slowed the spread of the virus or was associated with a slower spread. Amazing. For some reason, that study has not received a lot of attention. Maybe you shouldn't be surprised by that.

Closing every business except grocery stores forces a lot of people into a small space. Is that a good idea? There are a lot of potential problems. We don't know all of the answers; someday we'll have a better understanding of the science behind quarantines. We should have had it before we imposed them.

But for now, here's what you need to know and what they're not going to tell you. There is, as of now, precisely no evidence that the lockdowns in America saved lives anywhere. In fact, it's possible that mass quarantines killed people.

Researchers at JPMorgan compared the coronavirus infection rates of all 50 U.S. states and many European countries before and after the mass quarantines. Overall, ending the lockdowns was associated with a slower spread of the virus.

Did you hear that? Ending the lockdowns slowed the spread of the virus or was associated with a slower spread. Amazing. For some reason, that study has not received a lot of attention. Maybe you shouldn't be surprised by that.

More than any other governor maybe in the country, Kristi Noem from South Dakota refused to lock her state down. She refused to use the coronavirus pandemic to enhance her personal powers. For that, she was vilified in the national press. Some outlets treated her like a mass murderer.

On April 13, The Washington Post wrote this: "South Dakota's Governor resisted ordering people to stay home. Now it has one of the nation's largest coronavirus hotspots."

Meanwhile, the obedient states --states that imprisoned their entire population -- got a round of applause from the entire American media the very next day. The New York Times lauded California, by contrast, this way: "California set the tone on coronavirus shutdowns. What's its next move?"

And the message of all of this, of course, is unmistakable. You saw it at the time. California was saving its people. Rightwing, old South Dakota was plunging its state into calamity.

So, that was more than five weeks ago. How did things turn out in the end? Have you seen a follow-up story on it? Probably not.

Here the facts. As of now, about 5 per 100,000 people in South Dakota have died of the coronavirus. In California, the death toll is 8.4 per hundred thousand. That's 64 percent higher. That doesn't prove lockdowns kill people. It does suggest it doesn't work very well.

And yet even now, millions of Americans are living, suffocating under continued lockdown. California's economy has been crushed, particularly for middle-class people. They're barred from going to work. They can't go on the dry sand in Los Angeles per their lunatic mayor.

Now, you can laugh about this because it's stupid. But for millions of healthy people at virtually no risk from dying of this virus, the lockdowns have been a life-changing disaster.

More from Opinion
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RNC Chair McDaniel: Democrats and voter fraud in Nevada — here's how it will impact you
Early in the pandemic, the president of the United States made that point. Any intemperate response to this pandemic, even if it mitigates the virus itself, could wind up killing a lot of people.

President Donald Trump: People get tremendous anxiety and depression and you have suicides over things like this when you have terrible economies, you have death.

In other words, bad economies don't just make people poor, they kill people. That's obviously true. And yet The Associated Press, the most trusted, branded news raced in with a correction. "President Donald Trump is making a baseless claim of surging suicides if the U.S. economy remains mostly shut through the spread of the coronavirus, " The AP wrote.

Then they added this: "Historically, in a crisis, suicides tend to diminish as society pulls together in a common purpose."

As if the government locking you in your own home for two months, taking away your job, depriving you of human contact was comparable to fighting the Second World War, a common purpose. That's the opposite of what it was. The people who made these orders went to their weekend houses in Aspen. They ignored the terms of their own orders. They got their hair done.

A month later, The Washington Post wrote this: "The coronavirus pandemic is pushing America into a mental health crisis." Well of course, it is. Calls to the Federal Emotional Distress Hotline have gone up 1,000 percent.

Across American counties -- the heart of the opioid epidemic -- report a surge in overdoses compared to last year. By the way, in the State of New Jersey, for example, the governor stopped AA Meetings. You were not allowed to go to your AA group, but he kept liquor stores open.

Okay, how do you think that worked out? Not well. But don't worry, The AP reassures us, President Trump was making a baseless claim that this might affect people's mental health.

And there's more, we could go on for days. But just this: In March, the CDC warned that coronavirus might survive for a prolonged period on exposed services. Remember that? Gloves in the elevator?

Millions of Americans were panicked by this. Why wouldn't they be? They wiped down everything they touched. They refused to order takeout food. They put their groceries in mail-in days' long quarantine before opening them -- maybe you did that. We're not mocking you for it. They told you to.

Now, the CDC has new guidance. Coronavirus " does not spread easily on surfaces." Okay.

So, where are we now? What's the result of this? Well, it's not totally clear. But here's what we know.

For 50 years, America has steadily shipped its manufacturing jobs abroad. Now, those jobs which provided middle-class stability to millions were the core of the middle class were replaced often by low wage, no benefit jobs. People serving an ever-shrinking number of very rich people in finance, a lot of them getting checks from the government -- that's the new economy.

That new economy has been destroyed by these lockdowns. In the age of coronavirus, tens of millions of service jobs have gone away. Many will not return.

CLICK HERE TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP


So only manufacturing is left, but here's the catch: The manufacturers are all in China now. In other words, China won.

So, no matter what they tell you in coming years, that's what happened. That's what actually happened. Remember it.

Adapted from Tucker Carlson's monologue from "Tucker Carlson Tonight" on May 21, 2020


Hmm, that was hard readings. In fact, I ended up skimming it for any highlights there might be. So this is one of Sneaker 's heroes in action. I wonder is he actually believes his own output.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:46 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
is bill around or is he still sufferring from his last dettol dettox ?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 40-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

interesting as the master of idiots would say in these parts.

the short of it

this may upset the village idiots: show
Research in context
Evidence before this study
We searched MEDLINE (via PubMed) for articles published up to April 21, 2020, using the key words “novel coronavirus”, “2019-nCoV”, “COVID-19”, “SARS-CoV-2”, “therapy”, “hydroxychloroquine”, “chloroquine”, and “macrolide”. Moreover, we screened preprint servers, such as Medrxiv, for relevant articles and consulted the web pages of organisations such as the US National Institutes of Health and WHO. Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine (used with or without a macrolide) are widely advocated for treatment of COVID-19 based on in-vitro evidence of an antiviral effect against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2. Their use is based on small uncontrolled studies and in the absence of evidence from randomised controlled trials. Concerns have been raised that these drugs or their combination with macrolides could result in electrical instability and predispose patients to ventricular arrhythmias. Whether these drugs improve outcomes or are associated with harm in COVID-19 remains unknown.
Added value of this study
In the absence of reported randomised trials, there is an urgent need to evaluate real-world evidence related to outcomes with the use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine (used with or without macrolides) in COVID-19. Using an international, observational registry across six continents, we assessed 96 032 patients with COVID-19, of whom 14 888 were treated with hydroxychloroquine, chloroquine, or their combination with a macrolide. After controlling for age, sex, race or ethnicity, underlying comorbidities, and disease severity at baseline, the use of all four regimens was associated with an increased hazard for de-novo ventricular arrythmia and death in hospital. This study provides real-world evidence on the use of these therapeutic regimens by including a large number of patients from across the world. Thus, to our knowledge, these findings provide the most comprehensive evidence of the use of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine (with or without a macrolide) for treatment of COVID-19.
Implications of all the available evidence
We found no evidence of benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine when used either alone or with a macrolide. Previous evidence was derived from either small anecdotal studies or inconclusive small randomised trials. Our study included a large number of patients across multiple geographic regions and provides the most robust real-world evidence to date on the usefulness of these treatment regimens. Although observational studies cannot fully account for unmeasured confounding factors, our findings suggest not only an absence of therapeutic benefit but also potential harm with the use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine drug regimens (with or without a macrolide) in hospitalised patients with COVID-19.


What do you think, Bill, this appears to be the best we have so far?


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:51 pm 
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Ted. wrote:
Hmm, that was hard readings. In fact, I ended up skimming it for any highlights there might be. So this is one of Sneaker 's heroes in action. I wonder is he actually believes his own output.


Don't be fucking stupid.

Fox isn't a News organization; & it sure as fuck isn't interested in broadcasting facts.

Fox is only about broadcasting information that will move the markets in the direction the people behind Fox want !


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 12:19 am 
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Masterji wrote:
The majority of Republican Presidents in my lifetime have all been thick and senile. Reagan was a total imbecile, Bush Jnr was plain thick and couldn't string sentence together and Trump has taken it to a new level of stupidity, not only is he thick, he can't string a coherent sentence together which makes sense or isnt full of lies. Only Bush snr was anywhere near what you expect as long as you kept him away from dodgy food.


Agree with all of this, but Bush Jnr comes across as a genuine nice guy, I suspect most look at him as being duped by Cheney, Rumsfeld and the GOP, who needed a muppet to enrich themselves. He is self depreciating and fun ( I did not like him when he was President), he never wilfully lied, nor was he arrogant. Hardly presidential material in the first place, but Republicarnts needs are white and rich.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 12:25 am 
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The Optimist wrote:
Masterji wrote:
The majority of Republican Presidents in my lifetime have all been thick and senile. Reagan was a total imbecile, Bush Jnr was plain thick and couldn't string sentence together and Trump has taken it to a new level of stupidity, not only is he thick, he can't string a coherent sentence together which makes sense or isnt full of lies. Only Bush snr was anywhere near what you expect as long as you kept him away from dodgy food.


Agree with all of this, but Bush Jnr comes across as a genuine nice guy, I suspect most look at him as being duped by Cheney, Rumsfeld and the GOP, who needed a muppet to enrich themselves. He is self depreciating and fun ( I did not like him when he was President), he never wilfully lied, nor was he arrogant. Hardly presidential material in the first place, but Republicarnts needs are white and rich.


He was of the opinion it was the will of god he assume the Presidency, which under some circumstances some might refer to as arrogant, and I do recall the odd lie, the odd accidental pardon of a criminal...


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 12:35 am 
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This just in...

Quote:
According to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll, 44 percent of Republicans believe that Bill Gates is plotting to use a mass COVID-19 vaccination campaign as a pretext to implant microchips in billions of people and monitor their movements — a widely debunked conspiracy theory with no basis in fact.

The survey, which was conducted May 20 and 21, found that only 26 percent of Republicans correctly identify the story as false.


Image


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 3:09 am 
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The Optimist wrote:
Masterji wrote:
The majority of Republican Presidents in my lifetime have all been thick and senile. Reagan was a total imbecile, Bush Jnr was plain thick and couldn't string sentence together and Trump has taken it to a new level of stupidity, not only is he thick, he can't string a coherent sentence together which makes sense or isnt full of lies. Only Bush snr was anywhere near what you expect as long as you kept him away from dodgy food.


Agree with all of this, but Bush Jnr comes across as a genuine nice guy, I suspect most look at him as being duped by Cheney, Rumsfeld and the GOP, who needed a muppet to enrich themselves. He is self depreciating and fun ( I did not like him when he was President), he never wilfully lied, nor was he arrogant. Hardly presidential material in the first place, but Republicarnts needs are white and rich.


The Manchurian candidate?


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 4:07 am 
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4071 wrote:

Back in 2012 during the Republican primaries, Rick Santorum attacked Obama for saying that he wanted every American to get a college education



Quite obviously, every American should not get a college education.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 4:41 am 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
4071 wrote:

Back in 2012 during the Republican primaries, Rick Santorum attacked Obama for saying that he wanted every American to get a college education



Quite obviously, every American should not get a college education.

Normally when someone from a middle class background reaches college age they have the tools to go to college. I can't see why it's a problem to have a goal where every Americans background gives them the same tools.

Robert Browning wrote:
A man's reach should exceed his grasp


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 7:15 am 
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Doesn't matter who is POTUS.
The Pentagon Junta will never change their dirty game.
'Murica, fuvk yeah...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkMiTWXzZ6Y


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 7:18 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:
4071 wrote:

Back in 2012 during the Republican primaries, Rick Santorum attacked Obama for saying that he wanted every American to get a college education



Quite obviously, every American should not get a college education.

Normally when someone from a middle class background reaches college age they have the tools to go to college. I can't see why it's a problem to have a goal where every Americans background gives them the same tools.

Robert Browning wrote:
A man's reach should exceed his grasp


Sounds like Wallabies backline training.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 8:02 am 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
4071 wrote:

Back in 2012 during the Republican primaries, Rick Santorum attacked Obama for saying that he wanted every American to get a college education



Quite obviously, every American should not get a college education.


When I was going to St Ives,
I metaphor with seven wives.
Seven wives? Don't be silly.
That's more like a simile.

Of course Obama didn't say anything of the sort. He said he wanted college to be more affordable, and within reach of everyone who wanted to go. There's a list here:

https://www.politifact.com/collegespeeches/

My question is, why did Santorum have to lie? If Obama was as bad as conservatives say he was, then surely there'd be plethora of things he actually said that they could attack him with? What is it with modern conservatives and pathological lying? There was a time [Seneca will attest] when conservatives stood for the unvarnished truth.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:34 am 
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Lacrobat wrote:
This just in...

Quote:
According to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll, 44 percent of Republicans believe that Bill Gates is plotting to use a mass COVID-19 vaccination campaign as a pretext to implant microchips in billions of people and monitor their movements — a widely debunked conspiracy theory with no basis in fact.

The survey, which was conducted May 20 and 21, found that only 26 percent of Republicans correctly identify the story as false.


Image


The handful of remaining Republicans with multiple brain cells to rub together - the ones that are Republican because they are selfish rather than because they are stupid - need to have a bit of a think about the direction that Fox Entertainment News is leading their party.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:39 am 
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4071 wrote:
Lacrobat wrote:
This just in...

Quote:
According to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll, 44 percent of Republicans believe that Bill Gates is plotting to use a mass COVID-19 vaccination campaign as a pretext to implant microchips in billions of people and monitor their movements — a widely debunked conspiracy theory with no basis in fact.

The survey, which was conducted May 20 and 21, found that only 26 percent of Republicans correctly identify the story as false.


Image


The handful of remaining Republicans with multiple brain cells to rub together - the ones that are Republican because they are selfish rather than because they are stupid - need to have a bit of a think about the direction that Fox Entertainment News is leading their party.


The numbers aren't exactly good for the Democrat or Hillary voting tranches


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 11:28 am 
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Masterji wrote:
The majority of Republican Presidents in my lifetime have all been thick and senile. Reagan was a total imbecile, Bush Jnr was plain thick and couldn't string sentence together and Trump has taken it to a new level of stupidity, not only is he thick, he can't string a coherent sentence together which makes sense or isnt full of lies. Only Bush snr was anywhere near what you expect as long as you kept him away from dodgy food.


Reagan a total imbecile? :lol: :lol: You are.

Quote:
Over his two terms, the economy saw a reduction of inflation from 12.5% to 4.4% and an average real GDP annual growth of 3.4%.

When Reagan left office in 1989, he held an approval rating of 68%, matching those of Franklin D. Roosevelt, and later Bill Clinton, as the highest ratings for departing presidents in the modern era


On that alone he would rate highly.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 11:38 am 
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weekend homework for white house press corps.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 1:08 pm 
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merry! wrote:
Quote:

weekend homework for white house press corps.

Visual learners :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 1:10 pm 
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merry! wrote:
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weekend homework for white house press corps.

Good god, the replies.
People really think she made some kind of a good point.
Fcuking morons.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 1:15 pm 
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https://twitter.com/PaulBlume_FOX9/stat ... 5482067968

I wonder which candidate they voted for.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 1:43 pm 
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Another one for the orange lovers to digest:

Quote:
Trump drug hydroxychloroquine raises death risk in Covid patients, study says
The drug US President Donald Trump said he was taking to ward off Covid-19 actually increases the risk of patients with the disease dying from it, a study in the Lancet has found.

The study said there were no benefits to treating patients with the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine.

Mr Trump said he was taking the drug despite public health officials warning that it could cause heart problems.

The president has repeatedly promoted the drug, against medical advice.

Hydroxychloroquine is safe for malaria, and conditions like lupus or arthritis, but no clinical trials have recommended the use of hydroxychloroquine for coronavirus.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-52779309?at_custom4=21DCF6AC-9C76-11EA-A6BB-988296E8478F&at_medium=custom7&at_campaign=64&at_custom3=BBC+News&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_custom2=facebook_page&fbclid=IwAR03fAg5uE2hE8ERlMDEi3uXlnhpSF-LhvjfQD6Dym9rsGPGjYqJ_d3RgYw


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:10 pm 
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So. Donald Trump should be dead, by now.

Interesting.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:19 pm 
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Not as interesting as your verbal reasoning.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:19 pm 
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freddie111 wrote:
The below analysis makes me sad.

Its writers are insightful, there are serious questions to be figured out and not all decisions were the best ones. E.g. the New York oriented media has been completely shrill and has not taken into account the fact that most of America is not New England. Every time I read an article about how crazy people are for not locking down, I check their location and it's always New York. So I understand where they are coming from, but North Dakota ain't New York!

But instead of using that insight to actually move the discussion forward ultimately the article only covers half the story, leaves out facts that might go against the aspirational headline and concludes in a party political broadcast that is complete whataboutery. They even have the balls to say they also stated that the death rate would be much higher but it is everyone else's fault.
American journalism is so shit :(

Tucker Carlson: There's no evidence coronavirus lockdowns saved lives. Mass quarantines may have killed people
By Tucker Carlson

Published May 22, 2020

Fox News
Get all the latest news on coronavirus and more delivered daily to your inbox. Sign up here.

It has now been 63 days -- we're keeping track -- since California became the first American state to issue a so-called shelter-in-place order for all citizens.

Governor Gavin Newsom's order was the beginning of an unprecedented coronavirus mass quarantine that has changed this country forever. In many ways, the United States is hard to recognize compared to just two months ago. Two months from now, it will be more different still.

DEMS MAKE BIG PUSH TO AID ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AMID CORONAVIRUS CRISIS

In fact, it may be years before we fully understand the effects of what our leaders have done in response to the Wuhan coronavirus. There are certain to be battles over how to interpret this moment many years from now. It's possible your children will hear only one version of the story. Uncomfortable facts by that point may have been scrubbed from social media platforms as disinformation.

So, while we can, we'd like to get on tape, for the record, some of what actually happened here.

The first thing to remember is that our leaders didn't simply revoke the country's constitutional rights one day from a cold start. They laid the groundwork first. They softened opposition by sowing fear.

On March 14, to name one among countless possible examples, a former Obama administration health official called Andy Slavitt predicted that just nine days from now, America's largest cities and hospitals would be "overrun with cases."

Now, Slavitt is not an epidemiologist. In fact, he is a former McKinsey consultant. But countless other self-described experts on television backed him up. A huge number of Americans, they told us, would get infected with the coronavirus, and a huge number would die and die in the ugliest most desperate way -- gasping for breath with tubes shoved down their throats.

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Now at the time, the World Health Organization suggested that a million Americans would die this way. The WHO estimated a case fatality rate of 3.4 percent. It's horrifying. It scared the hell out of the country. It scared the hell out of us. I think we repeated those numbers to you on this show.

But they were totally wrong. We now know, thanks to widespread blood testing, that the virus isn't that deadly. An enormous percentage of coronavirus infections produce mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. They're asymptomatic. The death toll is a tiny fraction of what we were told it would be.

Cuomo's lockdown, like most in this country was modeled on the <a href="https://www.foxnews.com/category/world/world-regions/china" target="_blank">Chinese government</a>'s quarantine, their response to the Wuhan coronavirus -- which is odd if you think about it. Who decided that following the example of the country responsible for unleashing the pandemic was somehow good public health?

One study in Scotland estimated the real death rate could be 0.04 percent. Another in Miami Dade, Florida suggested 0.18 percent. The one in Los Angeles 0.06 percent. In fact, the highest figure we've been able to find from a credible blood test study comes from Spain, and it produced a death rate of just over 1 percent, and that's still far below what they told us it would be.

At the time, ambitious politicians understood instinctively that Americans were really scared, and some did their best to heighten that fear. Here's New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo telling his daily television audience that tens of thousands of Americans would die unless the Trump administration sent more ventilators.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo: FEMA says we're sending 400 ventilators. Really? What am I going to -- what am I going to do with 400 ventilators when I need 30,000? You pick the 26,000 people who are going to die because you only sent 400 ventilators.

This is why it pays to use a little restraint in your public statements because, as it turned out, New York had more than enough ventilators. Too many ventilators, really; some were never even used. But Cuomo didn't dwell on that. He blew right past it and spent most of the subsequent weeks discussing the vital importance of obeying his quarantine.

Cuomo's lockdown, like most in this country was modeled on the Chinese government's quarantine, their response to the Wuhan coronavirus -- which is odd if you think about it. Who decided that following the example of the country responsible for unleashing the pandemic was somehow good public health?

Well, they all thought that. Virtually, all of our leaders agreed the Chinese course was the only course. Dr. Anthony Fauci came on Fox Business to explain that actually, the Chinese government could be trusted.

David Asman, Fox Business' "Bulls & Bears" host: China has been known to fiddle with their stats before. Do you trust what they are telling us about this illness?

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases: From what I can see right now, they really are being much, much more transparent than what happened with SARS, where they really kept back information for a while. It was embarrassing to them.

They're really transparent now. They've put the sequence of the virus up on the public database right away. So, in that respect, they've been transparent.

Yes, because when you think of the Chinese Communist Party, transparent is the first word that comes to mind.

Even then, when Fauci said that, there were some informed and independent- minded Americans who had real questions about the wisdom of following the Chinese model. But over time, their views began to disappear from Twitter and YouTube and Facebook.

In their place, the media presented hardened political activists, people like Zeke Emanuel, and allowed them to pose as experts on virus mitigation.

Zeke Emanuel, Vice Provost for Global Initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania: Realistically, COVID-19 will be here for the next 18 months or more. We will not be able to return to normalcy until we find a vaccine or effective medications. Is all of that economic pain worth trying to stop COVID-19? The truth is, we have no choice.

"The truth is, we have no choice." Get a pen and write down that sentence for future reference. The next time you hear someone say it, run. "The truth is, we have no choice." When you hear that, you know, things are about to get much worse.

In fact, we always have a choice. A handful of political leaders made that choice. They decided to try a different approach, and then immediately -- and in unison -- they were denounced as enemies of the state.

When Georgia began to reopen some of its businesses in late April, The Atlantic magazine described that plan as "Georgia's experiment in human sacrifice." In the words of The Washington Post, Jeff Bezos's personal newspaper, "Georgia leads the race to become America's number one death destination." As if Jack Kevorkian had become the governor of Georgia.

And that was just in print. On television, the geniuses decided that relaxing the lockdowns would be far worse for Georgia than Sherman's March to the Sea.

Stacey Abrams, former Georgia gubernatorial candidate: This makes no sense and it doesn't improve our economy. It simply puts more Georgians at risk.

Chris Hayes, MSNBC host: If that sounds insane to you, you're not alone.

Mayors in Georgia are describing the governor's decision as reckless, dangerous and illogical.

Chris Cuomo, CNN anchor: Georgia may be doing too much too soon.

Don Lemon, CNN anchor: No matter what anybody tells you, no matter how many hopeful signs there may be, it's far too early to let down our guard. It's far too early to go back to the lives that we were living just last month.

And if that shocks you, it should.

Someday, unfortunately, that tape will be scrubbed off the internet. That's a shame.

Georgia is fine as it turns out. That was Don Lemon telling you Georgia is an incredibly dangerous place, and it had an effect.

"The truth is, we have no choice." Get a pen and write down that sentence for future reference. The next time you hear someone say it, run.

Imagine if you saw Don Lemon say that while being forced to watch CNN while waiting for a flight at an airport. Maybe you're headed to Atlanta. You'd be rattled by that -- of course, you would be. And rattling you was exactly the point of saying it. Stop thinking, obey. That was the message and was amplified day after day after day by outlets like CNN.

Watch this CNN anchor a month ago remind his audience that staying locked indoors was their moral duty.

Chris Cuomo: The only thing that has checked this contagion is our collective conscience to stay home together as ever, as one.

We know that is our true power. The question is, when will it really be put to this problem?

The one thing you never saw from these people -- these journalists -- was a straightforward discussion about whether or not lockdowns actually work. You'd think that would be the first thing they would talk about, but they didn't want to.

Hundreds of millions of people ordered to stay home, only go outside for essential reasons. Does forcing people to live like that really contain a virus? There are a lot of reasons actually to believe that it does not contain a virus. For example, forcing people into close quarters all day obviously increases the odds of infecting family members. The biggest studies on that have shown it.

Did you hear that? Ending the lockdowns slowed the spread of the virus or was associated with a slower spread. Amazing. For some reason, that study has not received a lot of attention. Maybe you shouldn't be surprised by that.

Closing every business except grocery stores forces a lot of people into a small space. Is that a good idea? There are a lot of potential problems. We don't know all of the answers; someday we'll have a better understanding of the science behind quarantines. We should have had it before we imposed them.

But for now, here's what you need to know and what they're not going to tell you. There is, as of now, precisely no evidence that the lockdowns in America saved lives anywhere. In fact, it's possible that mass quarantines killed people.

Researchers at JPMorgan compared the coronavirus infection rates of all 50 U.S. states and many European countries before and after the mass quarantines. Overall, ending the lockdowns was associated with a slower spread of the virus.

Did you hear that? Ending the lockdowns slowed the spread of the virus or was associated with a slower spread. Amazing. For some reason, that study has not received a lot of attention. Maybe you shouldn't be surprised by that.

More than any other governor maybe in the country, Kristi Noem from South Dakota refused to lock her state down. She refused to use the coronavirus pandemic to enhance her personal powers. For that, she was vilified in the national press. Some outlets treated her like a mass murderer.

On April 13, The Washington Post wrote this: "South Dakota's Governor resisted ordering people to stay home. Now it has one of the nation's largest coronavirus hotspots."

Meanwhile, the obedient states --states that imprisoned their entire population -- got a round of applause from the entire American media the very next day. The New York Times lauded California, by contrast, this way: "California set the tone on coronavirus shutdowns. What's its next move?"

And the message of all of this, of course, is unmistakable. You saw it at the time. California was saving its people. Rightwing, old South Dakota was plunging its state into calamity.

So, that was more than five weeks ago. How did things turn out in the end? Have you seen a follow-up story on it? Probably not.

Here the facts. As of now, about 5 per 100,000 people in South Dakota have died of the coronavirus. In California, the death toll is 8.4 per hundred thousand. That's 64 percent higher. That doesn't prove lockdowns kill people. It does suggest it doesn't work very well.

And yet even now, millions of Americans are living, suffocating under continued lockdown. California's economy has been crushed, particularly for middle-class people. They're barred from going to work. They can't go on the dry sand in Los Angeles per their lunatic mayor.

Now, you can laugh about this because it's stupid. But for millions of healthy people at virtually no risk from dying of this virus, the lockdowns have been a life-changing disaster.

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Early in the pandemic, the president of the United States made that point. Any intemperate response to this pandemic, even if it mitigates the virus itself, could wind up killing a lot of people.

President Donald Trump: People get tremendous anxiety and depression and you have suicides over things like this when you have terrible economies, you have death.

In other words, bad economies don't just make people poor, they kill people. That's obviously true. And yet The Associated Press, the most trusted, branded news raced in with a correction. "President Donald Trump is making a baseless claim of surging suicides if the U.S. economy remains mostly shut through the spread of the coronavirus, " The AP wrote.

Then they added this: "Historically, in a crisis, suicides tend to diminish as society pulls together in a common purpose."

As if the government locking you in your own home for two months, taking away your job, depriving you of human contact was comparable to fighting the Second World War, a common purpose. That's the opposite of what it was. The people who made these orders went to their weekend houses in Aspen. They ignored the terms of their own orders. They got their hair done.

A month later, The Washington Post wrote this: "The coronavirus pandemic is pushing America into a mental health crisis." Well of course, it is. Calls to the Federal Emotional Distress Hotline have gone up 1,000 percent.

Across American counties -- the heart of the opioid epidemic -- report a surge in overdoses compared to last year. By the way, in the State of New Jersey, for example, the governor stopped AA Meetings. You were not allowed to go to your AA group, but he kept liquor stores open.

Okay, how do you think that worked out? Not well. But don't worry, The AP reassures us, President Trump was making a baseless claim that this might affect people's mental health.

And there's more, we could go on for days. But just this: In March, the CDC warned that coronavirus might survive for a prolonged period on exposed services. Remember that? Gloves in the elevator?

Millions of Americans were panicked by this. Why wouldn't they be? They wiped down everything they touched. They refused to order takeout food. They put their groceries in mail-in days' long quarantine before opening them -- maybe you did that. We're not mocking you for it. They told you to.

Now, the CDC has new guidance. Coronavirus " does not spread easily on surfaces." Okay.

So, where are we now? What's the result of this? Well, it's not totally clear. But here's what we know.

For 50 years, America has steadily shipped its manufacturing jobs abroad. Now, those jobs which provided middle-class stability to millions were the core of the middle class were replaced often by low wage, no benefit jobs. People serving an ever-shrinking number of very rich people in finance, a lot of them getting checks from the government -- that's the new economy.

That new economy has been destroyed by these lockdowns. In the age of coronavirus, tens of millions of service jobs have gone away. Many will not return.

CLICK HERE TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP

So only manufacturing is left, but here's the catch: The manufacturers are all in China now. In other words, China won.

So, no matter what they tell you in coming years, that's what happened. That's what actually happened. Remember it.

Adapted from Tucker Carlson's monologue from "Tucker Carlson Tonight" on May 21, 2020


So here we go. This is an evil grand plan orchestrated by China with the active support of the media and the Democrats.

The only points where I agree with Tucker are :

- Media tend to push one opinion and become propaganda machines rather than information outlets. But that applies to his own efforts and the channel who broadcasts him as much as to the media he hates.

- debate tends to be suppressed as a consequence of the above. Again, same applies to his way of expressing his views and to Fox News.

- there was a lot of ignorance around the Coronavirus and measures which were taken were taken with decision makers still in the dark. That is not their fault though and they had to go by the advice they were getting. In that case they used a century old proven approach they assessed as being the least risky course until we knew more about the bug. Important to remember that the death factor is still an unknown today... had it been 10 and the story Tucker would writing would be very different.

- constitutional rights have to be protected. But that coming from the Trump's camp is rich...


Now, food for thoughts. Look at the stats in Spain, Italy or France and try proving that a lockdown did not have any positive effect on infections and deaths... at least, this avoided a situation where most of the severely sick would not have had access to ICU over long months. In France, serious cases are well below 2,000 after peaking above 7,000.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:29 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
So. Donald Trump should be dead, by now.

Interesting.


Not sure you purposely play stupid or whether you are actually plain stupid.


Do you even understand the notion of risk versus certainty and once you grasp that, the notion of increased risk?

Remind me a Chinese guy I met, working for an airline, and who ordered the dispatch of a severely damaged aircraft so that it could be repaired at lower cost back at his main base. When I told him he took inconsiderate risks in doing this, he responded "there was no risk! Proof is: the aircraft landed safely"....

Reminds me the Tucker Carlson reasoning above : reopening is the best way to slow the virus spread. Look at the stats, they show lower infection rates. Except that I suspect Carlson doesn't believe his own shit but gets paid big money by Trump to manipulate dumb asses....


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:50 pm 
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henry wrote:
Not as interesting as your verbal reasoning.

Believe me, it's not interesting at all.

Logic has never been WT's long suit and that just provides more evidence, were any more not completely superfluous, of precisely that.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 3:06 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Masterji wrote:
The majority of Republican Presidents in my lifetime have all been thick and senile. Reagan was a total imbecile, Bush Jnr was plain thick and couldn't string sentence together and Trump has taken it to a new level of stupidity, not only is he thick, he can't string a coherent sentence together which makes sense or isnt full of lies. Only Bush snr was anywhere near what you expect as long as you kept him away from dodgy food.


Reagan a total imbecile? :lol: :lol: You are.

Quote:
Over his two terms, the economy saw a reduction of inflation from 12.5% to 4.4% and an average real GDP annual growth of 3.4%.

When Reagan left office in 1989, he held an approval rating of 68%, matching those of Franklin D. Roosevelt, and later Bill Clinton, as the highest ratings for departing presidents in the modern era


On that alone he would rate highly.


Was you around when he couldnt even remember the names of people-"Princess David". Also do you want to tell us about the budget deficit, or does that not count.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 3:29 pm 
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piquant wrote:
4071 wrote:
Lacrobat wrote:
This just in...

Quote:
According to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll, 44 percent of Republicans believe that Bill Gates is plotting to use a mass COVID-19 vaccination campaign as a pretext to implant microchips in billions of people and monitor their movements — a widely debunked conspiracy theory with no basis in fact.

The survey, which was conducted May 20 and 21, found that only 26 percent of Republicans correctly identify the story as false.


Image


The handful of remaining Republicans with multiple brain cells to rub together - the ones that are Republican because they are selfish rather than because they are stupid - need to have a bit of a think about the direction that Fox Entertainment News is leading their party.


The numbers aren't exactly good for the Democrat or Hillary voting tranches


Surely they are. Hilary voters are the least likely to believe the conspiracy theory. Trump voters, Republicans and Fox News viewers the most.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 3:31 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
So. Donald Trump should be dead, by now.

Interesting.

If he was a COVID-19 patient. If he's not lying.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 4:17 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
So. Donald Trump should be dead, by now.

Interesting.


Not sure you purposely play stupid or whether you are actually plain stupid.


Do you even understand the notion of risk versus certainty and once you grasp that, the notion of increased risk?

Remind me a Chinese guy I met, working for an airline, and who ordered the dispatch of a severely damaged aircraft so that it could be repaired at lower cost back at his main base. When I told him he took inconsiderate risks in doing this, he responded "there was no risk! Proof is: the aircraft landed safely"....

Reminds me the Tucker Carlson reasoning above : reopening is the best way to slow the virus spread. Look at the stats, they show lo wer infection rates. Except that I suspect Carlson doesn't believe his own shit but gets paid big money by Trump to manipulate dumb asses....



:lol:

How fragile we can be, at times...


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 5:55 pm 
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I see the fat fudge has gone golfing again.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:22 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
I see the fat fudge has gone golfing again.


In the middle of a medical crisis? I'm sure he's talked about president's playing golf in such circumstances.......


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:38 pm 
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Trump is going to start a war. He is running out of ideas and the hail Mary play is going to happen. He can't run on the economy, Covid-19 performance or the Wall. It's got to be war.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:39 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Trump is going to start a war. He is running out of ideas and the hail Mary play is going to happen. i can't run on the economy, Covid-19 performance or the Wall. It's got to be war.

He's not got much time to do it, it's the middle of a pandemic, and there's no good candidate.
That's just not going to happen.

And what makes you think a war would improve his polling.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:41 pm 
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Floppykid wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Trump is going to start a war. He is running out of ideas and the hail Mary play is going to happen. i can't run on the economy, Covid-19 performance or the Wall. It's got to be war.

He's not got much time to do it, it's the middle of a pandemic, and there's no good candidate.
That's just not going to happen.

And what makes you think a war would improve his polling.

I said hail Mary play. You know they don't normally work.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:42 pm 
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Floppykid wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Trump is going to start a war. He is running out of ideas and the hail Mary play is going to happen. i can't run on the economy, Covid-19 performance or the Wall. It's got to be war.

He's not got much time to do it, it's the middle of a pandemic, and there's no good candidate.
That's just not going to happen.

And what makes you think a war would improve his polling.

He’s also tied himself in with the whole “I said Iraq was a bad idea, I always said it” bit. Any war he would get into would have to be quick in and out, and that just isn’t feasible in this day and age.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:43 pm 
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DOB wrote:
Floppykid wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Trump is going to start a war. He is running out of ideas and the hail Mary play is going to happen. i can't run on the economy, Covid-19 performance or the Wall. It's got to be war.

He's not got much time to do it, it's the middle of a pandemic, and there's no good candidate.
That's just not going to happen.

And what makes you think a war would improve his polling.

He’s also tied himself in with the whole “I said Iraq was a bad idea, I always said it” bit. Any war he would get into would have to be quick in and out, and that just isn’t feasible in this day and age.

Grenada ?


Image


Last edited by Anonymous. on Sat May 23, 2020 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:45 pm 
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Hypocrisy doesn't scare Trump too much really, wont shake his faithful they enjoy it.
We'll see if it's chipped away at the moderates, polls are generally showing it has.

But there's only one poll that matters.


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