Planet Rugby Forum

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:39 pm**

Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:49 pm
DOB wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:47 pm
Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:48 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:05 pm Biden doesn't need to win the debates. He just needs to be steady and calm. People are seeing through Trump's rhetorics and they're sick of it.
He will not debate.

He appears to have dementia. He cannot remember what he said one week to another. He has dysphasia.
Trump can’t remember what he said 5 minutes ago.
Comfort yourself with that belief.
Trump would eviscerate Biden in a live debate.

The man who said in his Convention speech "Thanks to advances, we have pioneered the fatality rate. And you look at it. And you look at the numbers."

His brain doesn't work.

Biden is an old man who is in decline. In any other election he would be doomed. But fortunately for him, he's up against an incoherent moron whose single debating skill is a genuine inability to distinguish fact from fiction (which makes him an awkward opponent, in the same way that a pigeon makes an awkward opponent in a chess match).

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:07 pm**

I don't care who wins. I just hope that there is live coverage of the civil war which will follow the election.

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:10 pm**

Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:07 pm I don't care who wins. I just hope that there is live coverage of the civil war which will follow the election.

https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/ ... 7366038528

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:12 pm**

https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1 ... 6346706947

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:00 am**

CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:00 pm
mdaclarke wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:25 pm https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/t ... lked-right

Why I think Trump will win
If that's the case, why the voter suppression? Why is he afraid of voting via mail? He'll only win if he's successful in rigging the election.

He's not afraid of voting via the mail, he's confirmed himself a big fan of absentee voting, that he votes absentee himself and there's no problem with it. Whereas he's against mail in voting. In practice both systems rely on the mail, certainly to send ballots out, but I think absentee means you have to request a postal vote Vs those states who automatically send a postal vote to everyone on their electoral rolls which is the mail in voting he objects to.

Without doubt there is some risk for fraud with votes going out by mail, but he's had time to address such concerns and done nothing, he's had time to raise concerns and solutions to problems of outdated electoral rolls and done nothing, similarly he's done nothing about voting machines at traditional polling stations which are at significant risk of being hacked, if anything he's acted to stop people looking into problems seeking to address them

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:13 am**

How do you explain trying to stop mail in voting in Nevada but encouraging it in Florida?

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:21 am**

It's an out and out attempt at rigging the election.
Here's a very interesting take on Trump by David Cay Johnson
https://youtu.be/HSTKcGieq6E

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:28 am**

CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:00 pm
mdaclarke wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:25 pm https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/t ... lked-right

Why I think Trump will win
If that's the case, why the voter suppression? Why is he afraid of voting via mail? He'll only win if he's successful in rigging the election.

Jesus are people just as deluded this time as they were last time that its unwinnable for Trump?

I don’t want to see him re-elected but that country is on another planet.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:06 am**

Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:10 pm
Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:07 pm I don't care who wins. I just hope that there is live coverage of the civil war which will follow the election.
https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/ ... 7366038528

But this is alright?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAnOPUyyjy0

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:18 am**

Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:10 pm
Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:07 pm I don't care who wins. I just hope that there is live coverage of the civil war which will follow the election.
https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/ ... 7366038528

MM - Please explain the relevance to my post.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:38 am**

Biden did OK in the Dem debates.

I think the assumption that he’ll immediately fail is overcooked.

Nonetheless, the election will hinge on them. A 10-point lead could very quickly become <5 if he goes badly.

On the other hand, a reassuringly ‘competent but unspectacular’ performance might remove the last remaining brickbats against him.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:54 am**

Enzedder wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:18 am
Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:10 pm
Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:07 pm I don't care who wins. I just hope that there is live coverage of the civil war which will follow the election.
https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/ ... 7366038528
Please explain the relevance to my post.

It was in response to MM, not you,

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:39 am**

Harveys wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:28 am
CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:00 pm
mdaclarke wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:25 pm https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/t ... lked-right

Why I think Trump will win
If that's the case, why the voter suppression? Why is he afraid of voting via mail? He'll only win if he's successful in rigging the election.
Jesus are people just as deluded this time as they were last time that its unwinnable for Trump?

I don’t want to see him re-elected but that country is on another planet.

He broke all the "rules" last time. People bought in but after 4 years, his self aggrandising and hyperboles won't have the effects. In fact, the Republican movement against him is stronger. He has people who held office in his administration against him, etc. It's what he did during his presidency that matters in this election.
It's fine being a "Chaos candidate" throwing a spanner in the works, it can be refreshing for voters. But being a "Chaos president" has not being well received.

The core Trump supporters will vote for him even if her murders someone on the street. But there were actually people who thought he could do a good job.

Nothing is for certain but sentiments from a big section of Republicans this time is markedly different.

Obviously he could still rig the vote.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:40 am**

Harveys wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:28 am
CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:00 pm
mdaclarke wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:25 pm https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/t ... lked-right

Why I think Trump will win
If that's the case, why the voter suppression? Why is he afraid of voting via mail? He'll only win if he's successful in rigging the election.
Jesus are people just as deluded this time as they were last time that its unwinnable for Trump?

I don’t want to see him re-elected but that country is on another planet.

You have misconstrued what both posters you quote are saying.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:26 am**

Ted. wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:40 am
Harveys wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:28 am
CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:00 pm
mdaclarke wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:25 pm https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/t ... lked-right

Why I think Trump will win
If that's the case, why the voter suppression? Why is he afraid of voting via mail? He'll only win if he's successful in rigging the election.
Jesus are people just as deluded this time as they were last time that its unwinnable for Trump?

I don’t want to see him re-elected but that country is on another planet.
You have misconstrued what both posters you quote are saying.

Perhaps I have, I didn’t click the link in the first post and was responding to the consistent messaging from CI that it’s a one horse race.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:38 am**

No one is saying it's a one horse race because nothing is certain. The facts are, the Republicans themselves are turning against Trump en masse. I suspect it will be enough to win it for Biden. Voter suppression is another matter.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:47 am**

Whichever side loses will claim the other "stole" the election.

Nice.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:52 am**

Bidden will win, or Trump cheated.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:53 am**

It's not like Trump is hiding his attempt to suppress votes.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:00 am**

Voter ID is critical for an election to be trusted.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:19 am**

CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:13 am How do you explain trying to stop mail in voting in Nevada but encouraging it in Florida?

I have no idea, because in practice Trump is objecting to and approving of the exact same system, and given he strongly doesn't agree with himself there's no logical point of entry to debate the issue he's setting out.

There seems to be a couple of big problems with mailed in voting, and neither relate to fraud which so far just isn't showing up as a thing beyond conspiracy theories, there's the problem of getting ballots out to people and having them returned and counted, basically not disenfranchising the voters whether intentionally or not, and then there's the problem of election day, voters are used to knowing by the early hours following polling stations closing who the winner is, but if one side wins the balance of votes in polling stations only to lose by some smallish margin 10 days later once the postal ballots are tallied there's a chance of rancour from the moment someone declares a win based on the interim numbers known on election day. There's almost certainly going to be rancour and threats between the Dems and the GOP, but having a result tip the other way in such a divisive time is new ground, luckily Trump is bound to be responsible leading up to and after the event

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:20 am**

Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:00 am Voter ID is critical for an election to be trusted.

So you don't trust Trump's 2016 win, that Boris sits as the PM or the Brexit result?

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:31 am**

piquant wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:20 am
Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:00 am Voter ID is critical for an election to be trusted.
So you don't trust Trump's 2016 win, that Boris sits as the PM or the Brexit result?

Nor Obama, or Clinton, or Blair...

Do you object to voter registration?

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:44 am**

Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:31 am
piquant wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:20 am
Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:00 am Voter ID is critical for an election to be trusted.
So you don't trust Trump's 2016 win, that Boris sits as the PM or the Brexit result?
Nor Obama, or Clinton, or Blair...

Do you object to voter registration?

Nobody I've ever heard from objects to voter registration, how else would you compile a list of electors?

If we're not talking about being registered to voter but having to provide ID to vote then yes I object, not so much on principle of the idea itself, but because it seems like an expensive solution to a problem that doesn't exist which in the process is likely to deprive a vote to the less affluent.

If we have to do it, and I could be convinced it's required, the state should be footing the bill out of general taxation to provide the ID. We'd all still be paying for it, but it wouldn't be a relative extra tax on the poor. I don't love the idea the state wants or even demands everyone carry ID, but I can live with it and just have the occasional murmur about government intrusion, ID cards are hardly uncommon, we already have driving licenses and the like.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:44 am**

Lefties have had a good first crack at using political violence to oppose a lawful election result. Hopefully both sides can improve on that whatever the outcome.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:14 am**

Why is postal voting such a big deal in the States? Are there that many people living in such remote locations that they can't access a polling station?

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:15 am**

piquant wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:19 am
CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:13 am How do you explain trying to stop mail in voting in Nevada but encouraging it in Florida?
I have no idea, because in practice Trump is objecting to and approving of the exact same system, and given he strongly doesn't agree with himself there's no logical point of entry to debate the issue he's setting out.

There seems to be a couple of big problems with mailed in voting, and neither relate to fraud which so far just isn't showing up as a thing beyond conspiracy theories, there's the problem of getting ballots out to people and having them returned and counted, basically not disenfranchising the voters whether intentionally or not, and then there's the problem of election day, voters are used to knowing by the early hours following polling stations closing who the winner is, but if one side wins the balance of votes in polling stations only to lose by some smallish margin 10 days later once the postal ballots are tallied there's a chance of rancour from the moment someone declares a win based on the interim numbers known on election day. There's almost certainly going to be rancour and threats between the Dems and the GOP, but having a result tip the other way in such a divisive time is new ground, luckily Trump is bound to be responsible leading up to and after the event

Quite. Those are the problems but the benefits offsets the problem of spreading the pandemic and potential voter suppression via denying/delaying voter easy access to polling booths.

It's quite clear what Trump is trying to do.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:06 pm**

Nolanator wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:14 am Why is postal voting such a big deal in the States? Are there that many people living in such remote locations that they can't access a polling station?

Well, it's not necessarily the remoteness.

When you consider that election day is a working day, people have to find the time to vote. And the location and number of polling stations can therefore be critical. As was seen in Kentucky primaries earlier this year, when the two most populous counties (and the ones with high proportions of black voters) were each allocated one polling station each, resulting in long queues and people being unable to vote.

Because the US is still so racially segregated, and data on the locations and affiliations of voters so readily available, it is quite simple to use that data to make it more difficult for some people to vote. It's essentially one step further than the already relatively legal fixing of elections by gerrymandering, which has allowed Republicans to secure majorities in state legislatures whilst representing a minority of voters and to secure disproportionate representation in Congress in several states (where they achieve just over 50% of the vote and secure around 75% of the congressional seats).

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:01 pm**

CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:15 am
piquant wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:19 am
CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:13 am How do you explain trying to stop mail in voting in Nevada but encouraging it in Florida?
I have no idea, because in practice Trump is objecting to and approving of the exact same system, and given he strongly doesn't agree with himself there's no logical point of entry to debate the issue he's setting out.

There seems to be a couple of big problems with mailed in voting, and neither relate to fraud which so far just isn't showing up as a thing beyond conspiracy theories, there's the problem of getting ballots out to people and having them returned and counted, basically not disenfranchising the voters whether intentionally or not, and then there's the problem of election day, voters are used to knowing by the early hours following polling stations closing who the winner is, but if one side wins the balance of votes in polling stations only to lose by some smallish margin 10 days later once the postal ballots are tallied there's a chance of rancour from the moment someone declares a win based on the interim numbers known on election day. There's almost certainly going to be rancour and threats between the Dems and the GOP, but having a result tip the other way in such a divisive time is new ground, luckily Trump is bound to be responsible leading up to and after the event
Quite. Those are the problems but the benefits offsets the problem of spreading the pandemic and potential voter suppression via denying/delaying voter easy access to polling booths.

It's quite clear what Trump is trying to do.

Indeed, to not be actively trying to ensure as many people can vote and vote safely this November is a disgrace, and speaks to the character of the leaders and supporters of voter suppression. Trump's actions fail at a level of common decency and common sense

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:36 pm**

As many people who are entitled to vote

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:03 pm**

The analysis on there being an issue with people being allowed in a vote in error suggests to the extent it's even a problem it's a tiny problem. But really who is arguing votes should be given to people who shouldn't have that chance? All we've really got are some loons led by an orange numpty making up ridiculous scare stories.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:21 pm**

The scary thing is, I think Trump knows how the system works better than anyone else. He sees it as something he can manipulate without much consequence. IMO the power of POTUS is essentially a dictator and is self governed. All a POTUS (like Trump) needs to do is to ignore protocols and convention, then refuse to admit wrong.

Why didn't it work for Nixon? Because Nixon didn't set the tone early enough. By the time of his impending impeachment he hadn't purged, threatened or bullied enough people.
Trump may succeed in rigging the election. Perhaps he's getting advice from Vlad.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:21 pm**

the Democrats are insane.But the US is not my country, and if people are sufficiently retarded to vote them in, so be it.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:37 pm**

Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:21 pm the Democrats are insane.But the US is not my country, and if people are sufficiently retarded to vote them in, so be it.

As I understand it you are a supporter of Boris Johnson and believe his government are doing a good job. Is that correct ?

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:04 pm**

Harveys wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:52 am Bidden will win, or Trump cheated.

Biden might win.

We already know Trump cheated.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:20 pm**

Norman Harvey wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:37 pm
Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:21 pm the Democrats are insane.But the US is not my country, and if people are sufficiently retarded to vote them in, so be it.
As I understand it you are a supporter of Boris Johnson and believe his government are doing a good job. Is that correct ?

I am a Conservative. I have not always been so.

The alternatives at the last GE were pathetic - either Momentum Labour, or pro EU-arsewipe LD's. The alternatives are still pathetic.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:24 pm**

Tim Scott [R, SC] on cable today describing the Biden team as the same socialists his daddy fought in WW2.

Of course, it's always possible his daddy fought for the Nationalists under Gen. Francisco Franco.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:25 pm**

Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:20 pm
Norman Harvey wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:37 pm
Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:21 pm the Democrats are insane.But the US is not my country, and if people are sufficiently retarded to vote them in, so be it.
As I understand it you are a supporter of Boris Johnson and believe his government are doing a good job. Is that correct ?
I am a Conservative. I have not always been so.

The alternatives at the last GE were pathetic - either Momentum Labour, or pro EU-arsewipe LD's. The alternatives are still pathetic.

As a conservative, don;t you struggle to support Trump? Apart from tax breaks for the rich, gun control and abortion, he's run roughshod over conservative principles.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:29 pm**

6.Jones wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:25 pm
Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:20 pm
Norman Harvey wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:37 pm
Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:21 pm the Democrats are insane.But the US is not my country, and if people are sufficiently retarded to vote them in, so be it.
As I understand it you are a supporter of Boris Johnson and believe his government are doing a good job. Is that correct ?
I am a Conservative. I have not always been so.

The alternatives at the last GE were pathetic - either Momentum Labour, or pro EU-arsewipe LD's. The alternatives are still pathetic.
As a conservative, don;t you struggle to support Trump? Apart from tax breaks for the rich, gun control and abortion, he's run roughshod over conservative principles.

The alternative to Trump is unpalatable to me.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:57 pm**

Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:29 pm
6.Jones wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:25 pm
Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:20 pm
Norman Harvey wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:37 pm
Mick Mannock wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:21 pm the Democrats are insane.But the US is not my country, and if people are sufficiently retarded to vote them in, so be it.
As I understand it you are a supporter of Boris Johnson and believe his government are doing a good job. Is that correct ?
I am a Conservative. I have not always been so.

The alternatives at the last GE were pathetic - either Momentum Labour, or pro EU-arsewipe LD's. The alternatives are still pathetic.
As a conservative, don;t you struggle to support Trump? Apart from tax breaks for the rich, gun control and abortion, he's run roughshod over conservative principles.
The alternative to Trump is unpalatable to me.

You can't stand people taking the pandemic seriously?

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