POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

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Zakar
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Zakar »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 pm Can't see america electing a socialist ever. She's a child in an adult's body.
She's 5'3
ovalball
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by ovalball »

One day after Rep. Mikie Sherrill, a Democrat from New Jersey, alleged that members of Congress led tours of rioters on a reconnaissance mission the day before the attack on the Capitol, 31 members of Congress sent a letter to the acting House Sergeant of Arms, acting Senate Sergeant of Arms, and acting chief of the US Capitol Police asking them to investigate the matter further.

Democratic Rep. Mary Gay Scanlon, one of the co-signers of the letter, confirmed to CNN that she saw groups of tours of people in MAGA apparel one or two days before the attack.

“I had seen what appeared to be tour groups of folks dressed in MAGA attire, in the halls, in the tunnels” Scanlon told CNN. “I don't know exactly what day it was. It was just surprising to see that happen because since Covid the building's been shut down. There aren't supposed to be any tours. So I kind of assumed it must be a new member who didn't know the rules or something. But, I mean, I can verify that it happened. There were people who were roaming around in the halls, apparently under the guidance of congressional staff.”
Scanlon told CNN she saw a group of six to eight people.

“Many of the Members who signed this letter, including those of us who have served in the military and are trained to recognize suspicious activity, as well as various members of our staff, witnessed an extremely high number of outside groups in the complex on Tuesday, Jan. 5,” the letter stated.

It says the tours were “unusual” and “concerning” and were reported to the Sergeant at Arms on Jan. 5. The letter said the groups “could only have gained access to the Capitol complex from a member of Congress or a member of their staff."
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Gavin Duffy
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Stranger and stranger.
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merry!
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

towny wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:10 pm These fascists certainly knew their way around the Capitol Building. Maybe the woman in this clip was the electrician that wired the place or something..... 😳

https://twitter.com/kristinminkdc/statu ... 26208?s=21
:lol:

fascists? you're such a child.
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shanky
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by shanky »

Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm
shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:03 pm
Believe it or not, there are 2,000 members of the US Capitol Police

2,000 people...to protect something the size of a high school campus

Where were they, on the day, eh? Eh?

/QAnon
It really didn't look like there were 2000 Capitol cops at the start
Exactly. I read somewhere they had 300 on duty that day.

Perhaps the others had been given the day off?

I mean, it’s plausible, right?
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Floppykid »

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1349446038680182784
JUST IN: CBS News has learned that a recent FBI bulletin warns agencies moving in to arrest suspects in the Capitol attack “to use caution and consider the use of SWAT when affecting the arrest,”
@jeffpeguescbs
reports.
:uhoh:
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Laurent
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Laurent »

Ok Merry, nazi really (a small benign offshoot)

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Zakar
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Zakar »

shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:15 pm
Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm
shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:03 pm
Believe it or not, there are 2,000 members of the US Capitol Police

2,000 people...to protect something the size of a high school campus

Where were they, on the day, eh? Eh?

/QAnon
It really didn't look like there were 2000 Capitol cops at the start
Exactly. I read somewhere they had 300 on duty that day.

Perhaps the others had been given the day off?

I mean, it’s plausible, right?
What a cruisey job. An incident every 20 years.

Plenty of free time to cruise 4chan.
Flyin Ryan
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flyin Ryan »

Impeachment resolution passes (voting ongoing):

Democrats: 218-0, 4 no votes
Republicans: 10-194, 7 no votes
Last edited by Flyin Ryan on Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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shanky
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by shanky »

Zakar wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:19 pm
shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:15 pm
Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm
shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:03 pm
Believe it or not, there are 2,000 members of the US Capitol Police

2,000 people...to protect something the size of a high school campus

Where were they, on the day, eh? Eh?

/QAnon
It really didn't look like there were 2000 Capitol cops at the start
Exactly. I read somewhere they had 300 on duty that day.

Perhaps the others had been given the day off?

I mean, it’s plausible, right?
What a cruisey job. An incident every 20 years.

Plenty of free time to cruise 4chan.
It’ll all come out eventually.

That’ll be an eye-opener.
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Jensrsa
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Jensrsa »

flaggETERNAL wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:06 pm
Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:00 pm
flaggETERNAL wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:53 pm
Americans really do need to grow up when it comes to the S word. I don;t think she'll run in 2024 but by 2028? I think we keep forgetting how young she is for the position she's in.
I watched a speech she gave on climate change in 2019 in Denmark at the C40 World Mayors Conference. Considering she was a bartender two years ago her stage presence was just astonishing
Yep. She's naive and she's already had her share of stupid statements BUT she's also young and I think she'll mature and become even more formidable.
Supporters of her GND
Former vice presidents
Al Gore, 45th Vice President of the United States

Individuals
Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel laureate in economics, professor at Columbia University
Jill Stein, former Green party presidential candidate in 2012 and 2016
Howie Hawkins, Green party co-founder and first American political candidate to run on the promise of a Green New Deal
Jagmeet Singh, Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada endorsed a Canadian Green New Deal
Ban Ki-moon, former UN Secretary-General
Mike Gravel, former US Senator from Alaska and candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries
Paul Krugman, Nobel laureate in economics, professor at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, and a columnist for The New York Times.
Bill Maher, comedian, political commentator, and television host
Bria Vinaite recorded a "Green New Deal" video for Vogue Magazine in 2018
Marianne Williamson, candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries
Andrew Yang, candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries

Senators
Ed Markey, US Senator from Massachusetts
Jeff Merkley, US Senator from Oregon
Bernie Sanders, US Senator from Vermont, Ranking Member of the Senate Budget Committee
Kirsten Gillibrand, US Senator from New York
Elizabeth Warren, US Senator from Massachusetts
Mazie Hirono, US Senator from Hawaii
Ron Wyden, US Senator from Oregon
Richard Blumenthal US Senator from Connecticut
Cory Booker, US Senator from New Jersey
Amy Klobuchar, US Senator from Minnesota
Chris Murphy, US Senator from Connecticut
Chris Van Hollen, US Senator from Maryland
Martin Heinrich, US Senator from New Mexico.
Tom Udall, US Senator from New Mexico.

Representatives
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, US Representative from New York's 14th congressional district.
Alcee Hastings, US Representative from Florida's 20th congressional District.
Rashida Tlaib, US Representative from Michigan's 13th congressional district.
Jose Serrano, US Representative from New York's 15th congressional district.
Carolyn Maloney, US Representative from New York's 12th congressional district.
Juan Vargas, US Representative from California's 51st congressional district.
Adriano Espaillat, US Representative from New York's 13th congressional district.
Stephen F. Lynch, US Representative from Massachusetts' 8th congressional district.
Nydia Velázquez, Chair of the House Small Business Committee and US Representative from New York's 7th congressional district.
Earl Blumenauer, US Representative from Oregon's 3rd congressional district.
Brendan Boyle, US Representative from Pennsylvania's 2nd congressional district.
Joaquin Castro, US Representative from Texas 20th congressional district.
Yvette Clarke, US Representative from New York's 9th congressional district.
Pramila Jayapal, US Representative from Washington's 7th congressional district
Ro Khanna, US Representative from California's 17th congressional district.
Ted Lieu, US Representative from California's 33rd congressional district.
Ayanna Pressley, US Representative from Massachusetts's 7th congressional district.
Peter Welch, US Representative from Vermont At Large.
Eliot Engel, Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and US Representative from New York's 16th congressional district.
Joe Neguse, US Representative from Colorado's 2nd congressional district.
Jerry Nadler, Chair of the House Judiciary Committee and US Representative from New York's 10th congressional district.
James McGovern, Chair of the House Rules Committee and US Representative from Massachusetts's 2nd congressional district.
Mark Pocan, Co-Chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and US Representative from Wisconsin's 2nd congressional district
Mark Takano, Chair of the House Veterans' Affairs Committee and US Representative from California's 41st congressional district.
Eleanor Holmes Norton, Delegate to the US House of Representatives from the District of Columbia's at-large district.
Jamie Raskin, US Representative from Maryland 8th congressional district.
Gerry Connolly, US Representative from Virginia's 11th congressional district.
Alan Lowenthal, US Representative from California's 47th congressional district.
Doris Matsui, US Representative from California's 6th congressional district.
Mike Thompson, US Representative from California's 5th congressional district.
Mike Levin, US Representative from California's 49th congressional district.
Chellie Pingree, US Representative from Maine's 1st congressional district.
Mike Quigley, US Representative from Illinois's 5th congressional district.
Jared Huffman, US Representative from California's 2nd congressional district.
Bonnie Watson Coleman, US Representative from New Jersey's 12th congressional district.
Jesús "Chuy" García, US Representative from Illinois's 4th congressional district
Brian Higgins, US Representative from New York's 26th congressional district.
Deb Haaland, US Representative from New Mexico's 1st congressional district
Grace Meng, US Representative from New Yorks's 6th congressional district.
Salud Carbajal, US Representative from California's 24th congressional district.
David Cicilline, US Representative from Rhode Island's 1st congressional district.
Steve Cohen, US Representative from Tennessee's 9th congressional district.
Katherine Clark, Vice Chair of the House Democratic Caucus and US Representative from Massachusetts's 5th congressional district.
Judy Chu, US Representative from California's 27th congressional district.
Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, US Representative from Florida's 26th congressional district.
Seth Moulton,US Representative from Massachusetts' 6th congressional district and former 2020 Presidential candidate.
Raúl Grijalva, Chair of the House Natural Resources Committee and US Representative from Arizona's 3rd congressional district.
Gregory Meeks, US Representative from New York's 5th congressional district.
Gregorio Sablan, Delegate to the US House of Representatives from the Northern Mariana Islands' at-large district.
Barbara Lee, US Representative from California's 13th congressional district.
Suzanne Bonamici, US Representative from Oregon's 1st congressional district.
Sean Patrick Maloney, US Representative from New York's 18th congressional district.
Janice Schakowsky, US Representative from Illinois 9th congressional district.
Rosa DeLauro, US Representative from Connecticut's 3rd congressional district.
Andy Levin, US Representative from Michigan's 9th congressional district
Betty McCollum, US Representative from Minnesota's 4th congressional district.
Mark DeSaulnier, US Representative from California's 11th congressional district.
Joe Courtney, US Representative from Connecticut's 2nd congressional district.
John Larson, US Representative from Connecticut's 1st congressional district.
Veronica Escobar, US Representative from Texas 16th congressional district.
Adam Schiff, Chair of the House Intelligence Committee and US Representative from California's 28th congressional district.
Bill Keating (politician), US Representative from Massachusetts's 9th congressional district.
Peter DeFazio, Chair of the House Transportation Committee and US Representative from Oregon's 4th congressional district.
Anna Eshoo, US Representative from California's 18th congressional district.
Lori Trahan, US Representative from Massachusetts's 3rd congressional district.
Jimmy Gomez, US Representative from California's 34th congressional district.
Joe Kennedy III, US Representative from Massachusetts's 4th congressional district and 2020 US Senate candidate.
Maxine Waters, Chair of the House Financial Services Committee and US Representative from California's 43rd congressional district.
Lacy Clay, US Representative from Missouri's 1st congressional district.
Nita Lowey, Chair of the House Appropriations Committee and US Representative from New York's 17th congressional district.
Thomas Suozzi, US Representative from New York's 3rd congressional district.
Linda Sanchez, former Vice Chair of the House Democratic Caucus and US Representative from California's 38th congressional district
David Price, US Representative from North Carolina's 4th congressional district.
John Sarbanes, US Representative from Maryland's 3rd congressional district
Karen Bass, US Representative from California's 37th congressional district
Eric Swalwell, US Representative from California's 15th congressional district and former 2020 Presidential candidate.
Jackie Speier, US Representative from California's 14th congressional district.
Bobby Scott (politician), Chair of the House Education and Labor Committee and US Representative from Virginia's 3rd congressional district
Grace Napolitano, US Representative from California's 32nd congressional district.
Adam Smith, Chair of the House Armed Services Committee and US Representative from Washington's 9th congressional district.
Zoe Lofgren, Chair of the House Administration Committee and US Representative from California's 19th congressional district.
Jimmy Panetta, US Representative from California's 20th congressional district.
Nanette Barragan, US Representative from California's 44th congressional district
Elijah Cummings, Chair of the House Oversight Committee and US Representative from Maryland's 7th congressional district.
Danny K. Davis, US Representative from Illinois's 7th congressional district.
Jahana Hayes, US Representative from Connecticut's 5th congressional district.
Brad Sherman , US Representative from California's 30th congressional district
Alma Adams, US Representative from North Carolina's 12th congressional district.
Lloyd Doggett, US Representative from Texas 35th congressional district.
John Garamendi, US Representative from California's 3rd congressional district.
Dutch Ruppersberger, US Representative from Maryland's 2nd congressional district
Bill Pascrell, US Representative from New Jersey's 9th congressional district.
Pete Aguilar, US Representative from California's 31st congressional district.
Ben Ray Lujan, Assistant Speaker of the US Representative from New Mexico's 1st congressional district and 2020 candidate for US Senate.
Susan Davis, US Representative from California's 53rd congressional district
Marcia Fudge, US Representative from Ohio's 11th congressional district.
Beto O'Rourke, former US Representative From Texas 16th congressional district, 2018 US Senate Nominee in Texas.

Governors
Andrew Cuomo, Governor of New York.
Jay Inslee, Governor of Washington and former 2020 Presidential candidate.
Michelle Lujan Grisham, Governor of New Mexico.
Janet Mills, Governor of Maine.

Mayors
Pete Buttigieg, former mayor of South Bend
Bill De Blasio, Mayor of New York City and former 2020 Presidential candidate
Wayne Messam, Mayor of Miramar, Florida

Organizations
The Climate Mobilization, which advocates a "World War II-scale economic mobilization to restore a safe climate."
The Democracy in Europe Movement 2025 (DieM25), a pan-European political activist group of over 100.000 members for progressive EU and global economics policy, founded by Yanis Varoufakis
The European Green Party and The Greens–European Free Alliance campaigned on the Green New Deal in the 2009 European Parliament election and maintain an ongoing European "Green New Deal" campaign
The Global Greens support a Global Green New Deal.
Green Party of the United States has endorsed the Green New Deal in its party platform.
The Heinrich Böll Foundation published proposals for a Green New Deal in Germany, the European Union, as well as North America, Israel, and Ukraine.The League of Conservation Voters is an American advocacy group for environmental issues
The New Economics Foundation and The Green New Deal Group (United Kingdom)
openDemocracy
Sierra Club Living Economy Program
The United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific, who developed the Low Carbon Green Growth Roadmap for Asia and the Pacific
The United Nations Environment Programme launched a Green Economy Initiative known as the "Global Green New Deal".
The Global Marshall Plan Initiative advocates for a sustainable global economy
Anyone who thinks she doesn't have widespread support is mistaken
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Gavin Duffy
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Can't see support for a generic 'green new deal' translating into a credible bid for the presidency.
Flyin Ryan
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flyin Ryan »

Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:23 pm
flaggETERNAL wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:06 pm
Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:00 pm
flaggETERNAL wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:53 pm
Americans really do need to grow up when it comes to the S word. I don;t think she'll run in 2024 but by 2028? I think we keep forgetting how young she is for the position she's in.
I watched a speech she gave on climate change in 2019 in Denmark at the C40 World Mayors Conference. Considering she was a bartender two years ago her stage presence was just astonishing
Yep. She's naive and she's already had her share of stupid statements BUT she's also young and I think she'll mature and become even more formidable.
Supporters of her GND
Former vice presidents
Al Gore, 45th Vice President of the United States

Individuals
Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel laureate in economics, professor at Columbia University
Jill Stein, former Green party presidential candidate in 2012 and 2016
Howie Hawkins, Green party co-founder and first American political candidate to run on the promise of a Green New Deal
Jagmeet Singh, Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada endorsed a Canadian Green New Deal
Ban Ki-moon, former UN Secretary-General
Mike Gravel, former US Senator from Alaska and candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries
Paul Krugman, Nobel laureate in economics, professor at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, and a columnist for The New York Times.
Bill Maher, comedian, political commentator, and television host
Bria Vinaite recorded a "Green New Deal" video for Vogue Magazine in 2018
Marianne Williamson, candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries
Andrew Yang, candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries

Senators
Ed Markey, US Senator from Massachusetts
Jeff Merkley, US Senator from Oregon
Bernie Sanders, US Senator from Vermont, Ranking Member of the Senate Budget Committee
Kirsten Gillibrand, US Senator from New York
Elizabeth Warren, US Senator from Massachusetts
Mazie Hirono, US Senator from Hawaii
Ron Wyden, US Senator from Oregon
Richard Blumenthal US Senator from Connecticut
Cory Booker, US Senator from New Jersey
Amy Klobuchar, US Senator from Minnesota
Chris Murphy, US Senator from Connecticut
Chris Van Hollen, US Senator from Maryland
Martin Heinrich, US Senator from New Mexico.
Tom Udall, US Senator from New Mexico.

Representatives
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, US Representative from New York's 14th congressional district.
Alcee Hastings, US Representative from Florida's 20th congressional District.
Rashida Tlaib, US Representative from Michigan's 13th congressional district.
Jose Serrano, US Representative from New York's 15th congressional district.
Carolyn Maloney, US Representative from New York's 12th congressional district.
Juan Vargas, US Representative from California's 51st congressional district.
Adriano Espaillat, US Representative from New York's 13th congressional district.
Stephen F. Lynch, US Representative from Massachusetts' 8th congressional district.
Nydia Velázquez, Chair of the House Small Business Committee and US Representative from New York's 7th congressional district.
Earl Blumenauer, US Representative from Oregon's 3rd congressional district.
Brendan Boyle, US Representative from Pennsylvania's 2nd congressional district.
Joaquin Castro, US Representative from Texas 20th congressional district.
Yvette Clarke, US Representative from New York's 9th congressional district.
Pramila Jayapal, US Representative from Washington's 7th congressional district
Ro Khanna, US Representative from California's 17th congressional district.
Ted Lieu, US Representative from California's 33rd congressional district.
Ayanna Pressley, US Representative from Massachusetts's 7th congressional district.
Peter Welch, US Representative from Vermont At Large.
Eliot Engel, Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and US Representative from New York's 16th congressional district.
Joe Neguse, US Representative from Colorado's 2nd congressional district.
Jerry Nadler, Chair of the House Judiciary Committee and US Representative from New York's 10th congressional district.
James McGovern, Chair of the House Rules Committee and US Representative from Massachusetts's 2nd congressional district.
Mark Pocan, Co-Chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and US Representative from Wisconsin's 2nd congressional district
Mark Takano, Chair of the House Veterans' Affairs Committee and US Representative from California's 41st congressional district.
Eleanor Holmes Norton, Delegate to the US House of Representatives from the District of Columbia's at-large district.
Jamie Raskin, US Representative from Maryland 8th congressional district.
Gerry Connolly, US Representative from Virginia's 11th congressional district.
Alan Lowenthal, US Representative from California's 47th congressional district.
Doris Matsui, US Representative from California's 6th congressional district.
Mike Thompson, US Representative from California's 5th congressional district.
Mike Levin, US Representative from California's 49th congressional district.
Chellie Pingree, US Representative from Maine's 1st congressional district.
Mike Quigley, US Representative from Illinois's 5th congressional district.
Jared Huffman, US Representative from California's 2nd congressional district.
Bonnie Watson Coleman, US Representative from New Jersey's 12th congressional district.
Jesús "Chuy" García, US Representative from Illinois's 4th congressional district
Brian Higgins, US Representative from New York's 26th congressional district.
Deb Haaland, US Representative from New Mexico's 1st congressional district
Grace Meng, US Representative from New Yorks's 6th congressional district.
Salud Carbajal, US Representative from California's 24th congressional district.
David Cicilline, US Representative from Rhode Island's 1st congressional district.
Steve Cohen, US Representative from Tennessee's 9th congressional district.
Katherine Clark, Vice Chair of the House Democratic Caucus and US Representative from Massachusetts's 5th congressional district.
Judy Chu, US Representative from California's 27th congressional district.
Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, US Representative from Florida's 26th congressional district.
Seth Moulton,US Representative from Massachusetts' 6th congressional district and former 2020 Presidential candidate.
Raúl Grijalva, Chair of the House Natural Resources Committee and US Representative from Arizona's 3rd congressional district.
Gregory Meeks, US Representative from New York's 5th congressional district.
Gregorio Sablan, Delegate to the US House of Representatives from the Northern Mariana Islands' at-large district.
Barbara Lee, US Representative from California's 13th congressional district.
Suzanne Bonamici, US Representative from Oregon's 1st congressional district.
Sean Patrick Maloney, US Representative from New York's 18th congressional district.
Janice Schakowsky, US Representative from Illinois 9th congressional district.
Rosa DeLauro, US Representative from Connecticut's 3rd congressional district.
Andy Levin, US Representative from Michigan's 9th congressional district
Betty McCollum, US Representative from Minnesota's 4th congressional district.
Mark DeSaulnier, US Representative from California's 11th congressional district.
Joe Courtney, US Representative from Connecticut's 2nd congressional district.
John Larson, US Representative from Connecticut's 1st congressional district.
Veronica Escobar, US Representative from Texas 16th congressional district.
Adam Schiff, Chair of the House Intelligence Committee and US Representative from California's 28th congressional district.
Bill Keating (politician), US Representative from Massachusetts's 9th congressional district.
Peter DeFazio, Chair of the House Transportation Committee and US Representative from Oregon's 4th congressional district.
Anna Eshoo, US Representative from California's 18th congressional district.
Lori Trahan, US Representative from Massachusetts's 3rd congressional district.
Jimmy Gomez, US Representative from California's 34th congressional district.
Joe Kennedy III, US Representative from Massachusetts's 4th congressional district and 2020 US Senate candidate.
Maxine Waters, Chair of the House Financial Services Committee and US Representative from California's 43rd congressional district.
Lacy Clay, US Representative from Missouri's 1st congressional district.
Nita Lowey, Chair of the House Appropriations Committee and US Representative from New York's 17th congressional district.
Thomas Suozzi, US Representative from New York's 3rd congressional district.
Linda Sanchez, former Vice Chair of the House Democratic Caucus and US Representative from California's 38th congressional district
David Price, US Representative from North Carolina's 4th congressional district.
John Sarbanes, US Representative from Maryland's 3rd congressional district
Karen Bass, US Representative from California's 37th congressional district
Eric Swalwell, US Representative from California's 15th congressional district and former 2020 Presidential candidate.
Jackie Speier, US Representative from California's 14th congressional district.
Bobby Scott (politician), Chair of the House Education and Labor Committee and US Representative from Virginia's 3rd congressional district
Grace Napolitano, US Representative from California's 32nd congressional district.
Adam Smith, Chair of the House Armed Services Committee and US Representative from Washington's 9th congressional district.
Zoe Lofgren, Chair of the House Administration Committee and US Representative from California's 19th congressional district.
Jimmy Panetta, US Representative from California's 20th congressional district.
Nanette Barragan, US Representative from California's 44th congressional district
Elijah Cummings, Chair of the House Oversight Committee and US Representative from Maryland's 7th congressional district.
Danny K. Davis, US Representative from Illinois's 7th congressional district.
Jahana Hayes, US Representative from Connecticut's 5th congressional district.
Brad Sherman , US Representative from California's 30th congressional district
Alma Adams, US Representative from North Carolina's 12th congressional district.
Lloyd Doggett, US Representative from Texas 35th congressional district.
John Garamendi, US Representative from California's 3rd congressional district.
Dutch Ruppersberger, US Representative from Maryland's 2nd congressional district
Bill Pascrell, US Representative from New Jersey's 9th congressional district.
Pete Aguilar, US Representative from California's 31st congressional district.
Ben Ray Lujan, Assistant Speaker of the US Representative from New Mexico's 1st congressional district and 2020 candidate for US Senate.
Susan Davis, US Representative from California's 53rd congressional district
Marcia Fudge, US Representative from Ohio's 11th congressional district.
Beto O'Rourke, former US Representative From Texas 16th congressional district, 2018 US Senate Nominee in Texas.

Governors
Andrew Cuomo, Governor of New York.
Jay Inslee, Governor of Washington and former 2020 Presidential candidate.
Michelle Lujan Grisham, Governor of New Mexico.
Janet Mills, Governor of Maine.

Mayors
Pete Buttigieg, former mayor of South Bend
Bill De Blasio, Mayor of New York City and former 2020 Presidential candidate
Wayne Messam, Mayor of Miramar, Florida

Organizations
The Climate Mobilization, which advocates a "World War II-scale economic mobilization to restore a safe climate."
The Democracy in Europe Movement 2025 (DieM25), a pan-European political activist group of over 100.000 members for progressive EU and global economics policy, founded by Yanis Varoufakis
The European Green Party and The Greens–European Free Alliance campaigned on the Green New Deal in the 2009 European Parliament election and maintain an ongoing European "Green New Deal" campaign
The Global Greens support a Global Green New Deal.
Green Party of the United States has endorsed the Green New Deal in its party platform.
The Heinrich Böll Foundation published proposals for a Green New Deal in Germany, the European Union, as well as North America, Israel, and Ukraine.The League of Conservation Voters is an American advocacy group for environmental issues
The New Economics Foundation and The Green New Deal Group (United Kingdom)
openDemocracy
Sierra Club Living Economy Program
The United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific, who developed the Low Carbon Green Growth Roadmap for Asia and the Pacific
The United Nations Environment Programme launched a Green Economy Initiative known as the "Global Green New Deal".
The Global Marshall Plan Initiative advocates for a sustainable global economy
Anyone who thinks she doesn't have widespread support is mistaken
It's an open question on whether she could win in a New York Democratic primary statewide, let alone nationally.
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Jensrsa
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Jensrsa »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:26 pm Can't see support for a generic 'green new deal' translating into a credible bid for the presidency.
As I see it the GND is a vision. Practically it will have to be implemented piece by piece. Any idea to implement it all at once is foolish. But it gives a blueprint of where one wants to go, what one wants to achieve asap
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shanky
Posts: 20698
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by shanky »

To run for President you need donors

Can’t see the Sierra Club or Mothers for the O-zone coming up with any decent funding for a bid.
Flyin Ryan
Posts: 10599
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Indiana

Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flyin Ryan »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:26 pm Can't see support for a generic 'green new deal' translating into a credible bid for the presidency.
If it did Howie Hawkins would've had more support than 0.26% this past election.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Jensrsa »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:28 pm
It's an open question on whether she could win in a New York Democratic primary statewide, let alone nationally.
She has at least 8 years to work on that, if she wants to be president. Hopefully she can maintain the momentum of the rush she started with
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:26 pm Can't see support for a generic 'green new deal' translating into a credible bid for the presidency.
As I see it the GND is a vision. Practically it will have to be implemented piece by piece. Any idea to implement it all at once is foolish. But it gives a blueprint of where one wants to go, what one wants to achieve asap
It's lipstick on a pig, has precisely zero percent chance of achieving its stated aims.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by DOB »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:26 pm Can't see support for a generic 'green new deal' translating into a credible bid for the presidency.
If it did Howie Hawkins would've had more support than 0.26% this past election.
Jo Jorgensen only got 1.2%, so I guess cutting taxes and regulations is a non-starter as a platform, too.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Floppykid »

Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:31 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:28 pm
It's an open question on whether she could win in a New York Democratic primary statewide, let alone nationally.
She has at least 8 years to work on that, if she wants to be president. Hopefully she can maintain the momentum of the rush she started with
She's won a deep blue congressional seat.
Someone like Conor Lamb is arguably more impressive.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Jensrsa »

shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm To run for President you need donors

Can’t see the Sierra Club or Mothers for the O-zone coming up with any decent funding for a bid.
In two years she got 11.5m followers on Twitter. If she maintains and increases the momentum she can have close to 100m by the time she can run for president in 8 years time. More than enough to fund her campaign for as little as $10 per follower
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flyin Ryan »

Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:31 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:28 pm
It's an open question on whether she could win in a New York Democratic primary statewide, let alone nationally.
She has at least 8 years to work on that, if she wants to be president. Hopefully she can maintain the momentum of the rush she started with
I don't buy for a second that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has a clue what life is like for Americans that don't live in New York City or Washington, D.C.

She's based on her statements a lot like Trump in that she's so convinced of her truth she doesn't see any reason to talk about things. She actively wants to purge certain people from the Democratic ranks in the House and Senate. Manchin said something in a tweet and AOC responded to it by glaring at his back when he was up applauding something. And you think that's going to win you a national primary? Manchin responded to a reporter's question about it "I don't see her around much. She's on Twitter more than she is working on her bills in the Capitol." Anyone that thinks that the Democrats have a majority of the House and all these Democrats out there that vote for them have the same views as a borough of New York City, you are so clueless about politics in this country.
Last edited by Flyin Ryan on Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by flaggETERNAL »

Floppykid wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:34 pm
Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:31 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:28 pm
It's an open question on whether she could win in a New York Democratic primary statewide, let alone nationally.
She has at least 8 years to work on that, if she wants to be president. Hopefully she can maintain the momentum of the rush she started with
She's won a deep blue congressional seat.
Someone like Conor Lamb is arguably more impressive.
Agaisnt an immensely powerful, well connected and entrenched congressman.


Lamb is impressive indeed.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flyin Ryan »

Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:37 pm
shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm To run for President you need donors

Can’t see the Sierra Club or Mothers for the O-zone coming up with any decent funding for a bid.
In two years she got 11.5m followers on Twitter. If she maintains and increases the momentum she can have close to 100m by the time she can run for president in 8 years time.
IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENCY, YOU ARE BASING POLITICAL VIABILITY ON THE SIZE OF A PERSON'S TWITTER FOLLOWING?

Resolution passes 232-197. 10 Republicans in favor.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by flaggETERNAL »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 pm
Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:37 pm
shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm To run for President you need donors

Can’t see the Sierra Club or Mothers for the O-zone coming up with any decent funding for a bid.
In two years she got 11.5m followers on Twitter. If she maintains and increases the momentum she can have close to 100m by the time she can run for president in 8 years time.
IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENCY, YOU ARE BASING POLITICAL VIABILITY ON THE SIZE OF A PERSON'S TWITTER FOLLOWING?

Resolution passes 232-197. 10 Republicans in favor.
Yeah much as I like AOC, popularity on SM doesnt equal votes
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Ted. »

towny wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:14 pm
Yer Man wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:16 pm
4071 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:02 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:46 pm
Whatever wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:27 pm Pictures of armed National Guard sleeping on the floors of the Capitol today. Serious stuff.

Metal detectors also installed, because Dems are worried that some Republicans might carry arms in. That one seems a bit of a stretch though.

But with Mitch onboard it seems quite likely the Senate will impeach too. Trump likely to self-pardon, and pardon his family.
Didn't a Republican Rep tweet Pelosi's location as the mob was invading the Capitol?

I understand the Dems may be a bit worried about some of their colleagues mental health.
The same QAnon devotee that vowed to bring her gun to work - Lauren Boebert. However, it's not as bad some people are making it out to be; there's a bit of policking going on. She tweeted that everyone was locked on the House Chambers, and then later tweeted that Pelosi had been removed. She did not actually tweet out Pelosi's location specifically.
There was nothing I could see in her tweets that could be considered giving away her location.
And besides, I think the reference was to "The Speaker".
Most of the bloody Trumpistanis wouldn't even know who the speaker was.
Please. The crowd included lawyers, CEOs and politicians. Plus, every redneck has been well and truly indoctrinated into believing Pelosi is evil. Behind Biden and possibly Bernie she’d have the highest profile.

The more we learn the more I suspect it was a legitimate attempted coup:
- Trump switched out loads of senior defence dudes in the last few weeks. Why?
- We know that the security was far less than what was required. The whole world knew they were coming on Jan 6 but somehow they weren’t prepared?
- They didn’t allow the NG to be activated? Why?
- We have seen videos of some cops waving them through, plus we know they opened some doors for them and even acted as guides once they were inside.
- We know the scumbags knew where the unmarked offices of some key Dems were. How?

I’m not convinced yet, but for argument’s sake, what if this was a legitimate coup attempt and involved senior members of the executive? Say.... Mike Pompeo for instance?

-
Speaking of Pompeo, WTF was he banging on about Iran sponsoring Al Queda? I can only assume that in the last few days some shit is going to go down in Iran or allies.

https://www.dw.com/en/mike-pompeo-claim ... a-56205654
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flyin Ryan »

DOB wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:33 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:26 pm Can't see support for a generic 'green new deal' translating into a credible bid for the presidency.
If it did Howie Hawkins would've had more support than 0.26% this past election.
Jo Jorgensen only got 1.2%, so I guess cutting taxes and regulations is a non-starter as a platform, too.
Relatively, that was pretty successful. I've said this elsewhere on it:
She still performed better than Gary Johnson 2012 (0.99%) with a much larger electorate than 2012. This is the party's 2nd-best performance ever percentage-wise as she finished ahead of Ed Clark 1980 (1.06%) who had a Koch as his VP nominee and funded the campaign and outreach heavily. Jorgensen had Spike Cohen. It shows growth of the party when I don't consider her as good a candidate as Gary Johnson. Johnson was a 2-term former governor of New Mexico and based on experience arguably more qualified than either Trump or Clinton to be chief executive in 2016. Jorgensen was a philosophy professor at Clemson. If Jorgensen was say the nominee in 2012, I think she'd be on the lines of 0.4-0.5%, so that she got 1.18% in a modern era record turnout election, and outperformed Gary 8 years ago shows the party base has grown and retained some of the voters that parked their vote with the Libertarians 4 years ago in rejection of Hillary and Trump.
This past election in contrast was not good for the Greens. It was aided by the Democratic Party who used shady tactics to kick them off the ballot in Pennsylvania, Montana, and Wisconsin, but the Green Party also kind of splintered a bit in the runup to the election.
Last edited by Flyin Ryan on Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Jensrsa »

flaggETERNAL wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:41 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 pm
Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:37 pm
shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm To run for President you need donors

Can’t see the Sierra Club or Mothers for the O-zone coming up with any decent funding for a bid.
In two years she got 11.5m followers on Twitter. If she maintains and increases the momentum she can have close to 100m by the time she can run for president in 8 years time.
IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENCY, YOU ARE BASING POLITICAL VIABILITY ON THE SIZE OF A PERSON'S TWITTER FOLLOWING?

Resolution passes 232-197. 10 Republicans in favor.
Yeah much as I like AOC, popularity on SM doesnt equal votes
With her target audience currently being the youth and millennials this is exactly where you get them. The progressives are showing that the political market has changed.

In 8 years time the market will have moved on to be the 30-40 somethings and the new youngsters would be coming through too.

In the Justice Democrats and the Brand New Congress she has tech savvy people working on her behalf while the old fogeys in politics are stuck in their traditional and aging (and dying) bases
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flyin Ryan »

Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:52 pm
flaggETERNAL wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:41 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 pm
Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:37 pm
shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm To run for President you need donors

Can’t see the Sierra Club or Mothers for the O-zone coming up with any decent funding for a bid.
In two years she got 11.5m followers on Twitter. If she maintains and increases the momentum she can have close to 100m by the time she can run for president in 8 years time.
IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENCY, YOU ARE BASING POLITICAL VIABILITY ON THE SIZE OF A PERSON'S TWITTER FOLLOWING?

Resolution passes 232-197. 10 Republicans in favor.
Yeah much as I like AOC, popularity on SM doesnt equal votes
With her target audience currently being the youth and millennials this is exactly where you get them. The progressives are showing that the political market has changed.
You realize this clampdown on digital and social media that is inevitably coming, they're going to clamp down on them too right? Twitter and Facebook to be just and fair companies have to go after everyone spreading lies, and you're going to have a lot of citizen volunteers passing on these lies to responsible entities.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Ted. »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:48 pm
Jensrsa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:44 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:21 pm
AOC needs to get traction on some of her policies before thinking to run.
She'd never win a primary. Her act plays well in a few very left-wing urban centers. That's nowhere near enough votes to win a primary.
She is underestimated.
She does not play outside of a certain section of big city areas at all. It's why conservatives constantly highlight her. If you think I can go even nextdoor to the sorta big city of 250k, and think the Democrats there will vote for her in a fraction larger than 10%, you're clueless, to say nothing of the minimal share of vote she'd get from rural Democrats. Throw on top of it she's never defended her views against other Democrats. There is not enough votes where her policies would be popular to win nationally, even in a Democratic primary.
Hmmmm, sounds familiar. :roll:
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Floppykid »

Zakar wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 pm Can't see america electing a socialist ever. She's a child in an adult's body.
She's 5'3
Don't agree with that, she's an 8 at least.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flyin Ryan »

https://reason.com/video/2021/01/12/how ... g-of-2021/
How to Respond to the Great Deplatforming of 2021

President Donald Trump's response to last week's attack on the U.S. Capitol led Twitter to permanently ban him from its platform, and Facebook and YouTube closed his accounts on the grounds that he had used their platforms to incite violence.

Then Apple and Google banned Twitter competitor Parler from its app stores, on the grounds that the perpetrators of last week's Capitol riot used it to coordinate the attack and because the service lacked adequate content moderation. Next, Amazon, which owns about a third of the global cloud storage market, evicted Parler from its cloud hosting service, causing the site to go down entirely.

These decisions drew a ferocious reaction, both for and against, from people of all political stripes.

"For better or worse," as Edward Snowden said after Trump was kicked off Twitter, "this will be remembered as a turning point in the battle for control over digital speech."

"It is stunning to watch now as every War on Terror rhetorical tactic to justify civil liberties erosions is now being invoked in the name of combatting Trumpism," wrote journalist Glenn Greenwald.

So how should those who value a free and open society feel about the deplatforming of the commander in chief, the ongoing purge of many of his supporters, and repression of discussion of 2020 election voter fraud claims?

Twitter is a private company and CEO Jack Dorsey's capacity to evict even the president of the United States is something to be grateful for. But what if the network power of a handful of Silicon Valley giants is so great that there's nowhere for the evicted to turn? And are Facebook, Twitter, and Google acting independently, or are they bending to the will of Congress at a time when tech has become so deeply politicized?

The takeaway from the great deplatforming of 2021 is that we need an open digital commons more than ever, a place where individuals maintain ownership of their own identities and where speech is highly resistant to political pressure.

Decentralized networks are vital to protecting open discourse not only from Twitter, Facebook, and Google, but from Sen. Ted Cruz (R–Texas), Sen. Josh Hawley (R–Mo.), President-elect Joe Biden, and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris, who have the real power to stomp on the free speech rights of American citizens.

It's easy to forget that Twitter's Jack Dorsey and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg embraced the concept of a neutral "public square" not long ago. Zuckerberg told Congress in July 2020, "We do not want to become the arbiters of truth."

But the shift from digital commons to an actively curated news feed was underway long before the election. In October 2020, Facebook suppressed and Twitter blocked the sharing of a New York Post story claiming that Biden met with an executive at a Ukrainian gas company where his son held a board seat.

Twitter also blocked the New York Post from using its account for more than two weeks.

When New York Times contributing opinion writer Kara Swisher grilled Parler CEO, John Matze, about the platform's role in inciting the Capitol breach, he defended Parler's hands-off approach:
Swisher: …going into the Capitol building to do this, if it was organized on your site, what should happen on your site?

Matze: Look, if it was illegally organized and against the law and what they were doing, they would have gotten it taken down. But I don't feel responsible for any of this and neither should the platform, considering we're a neutral town square that just adheres to the law.
The handful of companies that own the dominant share of social media and the underlying infrastructure of the internet disagree, and they've made it increasingly difficult for Parler to operate.

But the greatest threat isn't coming from Silicon Valley.

To get what they want from tech CEOs, both Republicans and Democrats have regularly threatened to strip away the liability protections provided by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which is sometimes known as the internet's "First Amendment."

Democrats want to leverage Section 230 to force them to weed out misinformation, which they falsely imagine can be sorted out by panels of accredited experts or fine-tuned algorithms. Republicans have threatened to repeal Section 230 unless platforms commit to "viewpoint neutrality," a standard that Daphne Keller of Stanford's Cyber Policy Center told Reason in June 2019, is impossible to uphold.

"I don't even know what being neutral would mean," said Keller. "Would it mean allowing every single thing to be uploaded and just showing it in chronological order? Can you be neutral if you have search features? Can you be neutral if you allow people to mute things? I think a truly neutral—meaning showing everything that is legal—social media platform would be full of content that most users don't want to see."

The incoming Biden administration and Congress have signaled their intention to introduce new national security and speech laws. Biden is making a public push for a new domestic terrorism law and red-flag laws, which would make it easier for federal agents to seize firearms based on users' online posts.

"[P]erhaps [America's] way of thinking about free speech is not the best way," wrote Emily Bazelon in The New York Times Magazine in October 2020. "At the very least, we should understand that it isn't the only way."

She further argues that European speech regulations "have created better conditions for their citizenry to sort what's true from what's not and to make informed decisions about what they want their societies to be."

But, in the European Union, these regulations have created the unintended consequence of flagging content that's disturbing yet vital to the public interest, such as an archive of Syrian war crimes wrongly flagged as "terrorist content" under the E.U. guidelines.

"Right now we don't have any clear information telling us that taking down all of these videos really is making us safer," says Keller of the E.U. regulations. "In fact, a lot of people who are expert researchers on security are concerned that this will effectively drive more people into darker corners of the internet, into echo chambers where they only ever hear from people who agree with a violent agenda."

A study from psychologist Richard Rogers found that a robust network of deplatformed figures has already emerged over the past several years on encrypted apps like Telegram, which has become a refuge for extremist content but which is also a preferred platform of pro-democracy activists in Hong Kong trying to avoid Chinese censorship and surveillance.

A transition to a new, more decentralized and private web may be accelerating as privacy-centric DuckDuckGo has experienced significant growth in search as an alternative to Google, and the encrypted messaging app Signal saw a big bump after Elon Musk encouraged the masses to install it.

With a crackdown in progress and likely to intensify once the new administration settles in, we should focus instead on enhancing encrypted communication platforms that make online speech harder to control, and resisting law enforcement efforts to weaken vital tools like end-to-end encryption.

There's a lot that still needs building to create an alternative digital commons, but it can be accomplished. Communicating freely might take more work in the future, and your favorite politician might get banned or your favorite app taken out of the store. But in this cat-and-mouse game, the mice far outnumber the cats.

That said, in the short term, the decision makers at Twitter and Facebook may want to consider that repression tends to have the unfortunate effect of pushing legitimate dissidents and dangerous, unsavory extremists into the same channels.

Sigmund Freud theorized that when thoughts or experiences are repressed, they inevitably resurface in more deranged and damaging forms. When our dominant communication platforms seek to repress widely held beliefs and opinions, those beliefs and opinions aren't likely to simply disappear but rather reemerge elsewhere in less visible forums where they'll face less scrutiny.

The next few years may be ugly, but silencing dissenters will ultimately fail. As Stewart Brand famously quipped, "Information wants to be free."
I've read in the aftermath of last week, a ton of people have downloaded Telegram, which I'd never heard of until this past week.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Floppykid wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:58 pm
Zakar wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 pm Can't see america electing a socialist ever. She's a child in an adult's body.
She's 5'3
Don't agree with that, she's an 8 at least.
GTFO, 6 maybe if you ignore the giant teeth.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:01 pm https://reason.com/video/2021/01/12/how ... g-of-2021/
How to Respond to the Great Deplatforming of 2021

President Donald Trump's response to last week's attack on the U.S. Capitol led Twitter to permanently ban him from its platform, and Facebook and YouTube closed his accounts on the grounds that he had used their platforms to incite violence.

Then Apple and Google banned Twitter competitor Parler from its app stores, on the grounds that the perpetrators of last week's Capitol riot used it to coordinate the attack and because the service lacked adequate content moderation. Next, Amazon, which owns about a third of the global cloud storage market, evicted Parler from its cloud hosting service, causing the site to go down entirely.

These decisions drew a ferocious reaction, both for and against, from people of all political stripes.

"For better or worse," as Edward Snowden said after Trump was kicked off Twitter, "this will be remembered as a turning point in the battle for control over digital speech."

"It is stunning to watch now as every War on Terror rhetorical tactic to justify civil liberties erosions is now being invoked in the name of combatting Trumpism," wrote journalist Glenn Greenwald.

So how should those who value a free and open society feel about the deplatforming of the commander in chief, the ongoing purge of many of his supporters, and repression of discussion of 2020 election voter fraud claims?

Twitter is a private company and CEO Jack Dorsey's capacity to evict even the president of the United States is something to be grateful for. But what if the network power of a handful of Silicon Valley giants is so great that there's nowhere for the evicted to turn? And are Facebook, Twitter, and Google acting independently, or are they bending to the will of Congress at a time when tech has become so deeply politicized?

The takeaway from the great deplatforming of 2021 is that we need an open digital commons more than ever, a place where individuals maintain ownership of their own identities and where speech is highly resistant to political pressure.

Decentralized networks are vital to protecting open discourse not only from Twitter, Facebook, and Google, but from Sen. Ted Cruz (R–Texas), Sen. Josh Hawley (R–Mo.), President-elect Joe Biden, and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris, who have the real power to stomp on the free speech rights of American citizens.

It's easy to forget that Twitter's Jack Dorsey and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg embraced the concept of a neutral "public square" not long ago. Zuckerberg told Congress in July 2020, "We do not want to become the arbiters of truth."

But the shift from digital commons to an actively curated news feed was underway long before the election. In October 2020, Facebook suppressed and Twitter blocked the sharing of a New York Post story claiming that Biden met with an executive at a Ukrainian gas company where his son held a board seat.

Twitter also blocked the New York Post from using its account for more than two weeks.

When New York Times contributing opinion writer Kara Swisher grilled Parler CEO, John Matze, about the platform's role in inciting the Capitol breach, he defended Parler's hands-off approach:
Swisher: …going into the Capitol building to do this, if it was organized on your site, what should happen on your site?

Matze: Look, if it was illegally organized and against the law and what they were doing, they would have gotten it taken down. But I don't feel responsible for any of this and neither should the platform, considering we're a neutral town square that just adheres to the law.
The handful of companies that own the dominant share of social media and the underlying infrastructure of the internet disagree, and they've made it increasingly difficult for Parler to operate.

But the greatest threat isn't coming from Silicon Valley.

To get what they want from tech CEOs, both Republicans and Democrats have regularly threatened to strip away the liability protections provided by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which is sometimes known as the internet's "First Amendment."

Democrats want to leverage Section 230 to force them to weed out misinformation, which they falsely imagine can be sorted out by panels of accredited experts or fine-tuned algorithms. Republicans have threatened to repeal Section 230 unless platforms commit to "viewpoint neutrality," a standard that Daphne Keller of Stanford's Cyber Policy Center told Reason in June 2019, is impossible to uphold.

"I don't even know what being neutral would mean," said Keller. "Would it mean allowing every single thing to be uploaded and just showing it in chronological order? Can you be neutral if you have search features? Can you be neutral if you allow people to mute things? I think a truly neutral—meaning showing everything that is legal—social media platform would be full of content that most users don't want to see."

The incoming Biden administration and Congress have signaled their intention to introduce new national security and speech laws. Biden is making a public push for a new domestic terrorism law and red-flag laws, which would make it easier for federal agents to seize firearms based on users' online posts.

"[P]erhaps [America's] way of thinking about free speech is not the best way," wrote Emily Bazelon in The New York Times Magazine in October 2020. "At the very least, we should understand that it isn't the only way."

She further argues that European speech regulations "have created better conditions for their citizenry to sort what's true from what's not and to make informed decisions about what they want their societies to be."

But, in the European Union, these regulations have created the unintended consequence of flagging content that's disturbing yet vital to the public interest, such as an archive of Syrian war crimes wrongly flagged as "terrorist content" under the E.U. guidelines.

"Right now we don't have any clear information telling us that taking down all of these videos really is making us safer," says Keller of the E.U. regulations. "In fact, a lot of people who are expert researchers on security are concerned that this will effectively drive more people into darker corners of the internet, into echo chambers where they only ever hear from people who agree with a violent agenda."

A study from psychologist Richard Rogers found that a robust network of deplatformed figures has already emerged over the past several years on encrypted apps like Telegram, which has become a refuge for extremist content but which is also a preferred platform of pro-democracy activists in Hong Kong trying to avoid Chinese censorship and surveillance.

A transition to a new, more decentralized and private web may be accelerating as privacy-centric DuckDuckGo has experienced significant growth in search as an alternative to Google, and the encrypted messaging app Signal saw a big bump after Elon Musk encouraged the masses to install it.

With a crackdown in progress and likely to intensify once the new administration settles in, we should focus instead on enhancing encrypted communication platforms that make online speech harder to control, and resisting law enforcement efforts to weaken vital tools like end-to-end encryption.

There's a lot that still needs building to create an alternative digital commons, but it can be accomplished. Communicating freely might take more work in the future, and your favorite politician might get banned or your favorite app taken out of the store. But in this cat-and-mouse game, the mice far outnumber the cats.

That said, in the short term, the decision makers at Twitter and Facebook may want to consider that repression tends to have the unfortunate effect of pushing legitimate dissidents and dangerous, unsavory extremists into the same channels.

Sigmund Freud theorized that when thoughts or experiences are repressed, they inevitably resurface in more deranged and damaging forms. When our dominant communication platforms seek to repress widely held beliefs and opinions, those beliefs and opinions aren't likely to simply disappear but rather reemerge elsewhere in less visible forums where they'll face less scrutiny.

The next few years may be ugly, but silencing dissenters will ultimately fail. As Stewart Brand famously quipped, "Information wants to be free."
I've read in the aftermath of last week, a ton of people have downloaded Telegram, which I'd never heard of until this past week.
Did you actually read that pile of shite?
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Floppykid
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Floppykid »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:02 pm
Floppykid wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:58 pm
Zakar wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 pm Can't see america electing a socialist ever. She's a child in an adult's body.
She's 5'3
Don't agree with that, she's an 8 at least.
GTFO, 6 maybe if you ignore the giant teeth.
Nah, she's fairly attractive.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Floppykid wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:08 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:02 pm
Floppykid wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:58 pm
Zakar wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 pm Can't see america electing a socialist ever. She's a child in an adult's body.
She's 5'3
Don't agree with that, she's an 8 at least.
GTFO, 6 maybe if you ignore the giant teeth.
Nah, she's fairly attractive.
6 is fairly attractive, 8 is fairly hot.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Floppykid »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:09 pm
Floppykid wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:08 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:02 pm
Floppykid wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:58 pm
Zakar wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm

She's 5'3
Don't agree with that, she's an 8 at least.
GTFO, 6 maybe if you ignore the giant teeth.
Nah, she's fairly attractive.
6 is fairly attractive, 8 is fairly hot.
Will you settle for a 7.2?
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Gavin Duffy
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Gavin Duffy »

6.9.
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DOB
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by DOB »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:48 pm
DOB wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:33 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:26 pm Can't see support for a generic 'green new deal' translating into a credible bid for the presidency.
If it did Howie Hawkins would've had more support than 0.26% this past election.
Jo Jorgensen only got 1.2%, so I guess cutting taxes and regulations is a non-starter as a platform, too.
Relatively, that was pretty successful. I've said this elsewhere on it:
She still performed better than Gary Johnson 2012 (0.99%) with a much larger electorate than 2012. This is the party's 2nd-best performance ever percentage-wise as she finished ahead of Ed Clark 1980 (1.06%) who had a Koch as his VP nominee and funded the campaign and outreach heavily. Jorgensen had Spike Cohen. It shows growth of the party when I don't consider her as good a candidate as Gary Johnson. Johnson was a 2-term former governor of New Mexico and based on experience arguably more qualified than either Trump or Clinton to be chief executive in 2016. Jorgensen was a philosophy professor at Clemson. If Jorgensen was say the nominee in 2012, I think she'd be on the lines of 0.4-0.5%, so that she got 1.18% in a modern era record turnout election, and outperformed Gary 8 years ago shows the party base has grown and retained some of the voters that parked their vote with the Libertarians 4 years ago in rejection of Hillary and Trump.
This past election in contrast was not good for the Greens. It was aided by the Democratic Party who used shady tactics to kick them off the ballot in Pennsylvania, Montana, and Wisconsin, but the Green Party also kind of splintered a bit in the runup to the election.
It's not about my 3rd party did better than your 3rd party, it's about issues that win votes for big 2, and being strong on Green issues (and having inter alia Al Gore on your side) will win you votes in Democrat primaries.

Yes, AOC needs to deepen her base (not broaden, as I said she has a nationwide outreach, she just needs stronger roots in e.g. your neck of the woods) but as also said above, she has 8 years before she's even eligible to run for President, so she has time to do that.


Besides which, I think Greens polling poorly and Libertarians polling well this year if anything demonstrates that; a) green voters felt it was important to vote Trump out, b) Libertarian voters felt support for Jo Jorgensen was more important than having Trump beat Biden (with the broad assumption that green voters trend left and libertarians trend right).

I voted for Jill Stein in 2012. Because I had the luxury of knowing that California would vote Obama over Romney anyway. I knew California wouldn't vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020, but I voted for the Democrat anyway because I (with the tiny little statement that my 1/17,500,881 of the vote count made) was absolutely voting against Trump.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Floppykid »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:12 pm 6.9.
6.98
Final offer, in the the spirit of this thread and its goal of "bipartisan civility".
It's a time to heal.
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