POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

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Gavin Duffy
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Gavin Duffy »

DOB wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:16 am
Gavin Duffy wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:50 am
DOB wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:47 am
Gavin Duffy wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:17 am
dam0 wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:14 am While by the constitution a president must be 35 years old, the reality is that practically speaking a candidate has to morel like 45 to be taken seriously as a candidate. It's also hard to imagine someone from the house of representatives running.

AOC won't have a viable ring at the presidency until at least 2032, at which point she may have mellowed, or the electorate may have swung left. It's far to early to say she can or can't ever be president.
The previous 240 years speaks against it tbf.
Teddy Roosevelt would've been to the left of the GND.

In fairness, he would've been a lot more hawkish in terms of Middle East policy, and would probably be wondering how a Spaniard, and a lady to boot, managed to infiltrate the Houses of Congress, but on policy towards workers and the environment he'd be right there with her.
And it didn't work, took WW2 to get the economy rocking again.
Wrong Roosevelt.
Ditto.
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merry!
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:18 am
EverReady wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:58 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:55 am
Trump "has held over 600 rallies in the last 4 years & none of them included assaulting police, destroying businesses or burning down cities. Democrats have spent all this time endorsing & enabling violent riots that left billions in property damage & 47 dead."

https://twitter.com/TrumpWarRoom/status ... 4878409728
:nod:

precedent set with this impeachment.
You saw what else she said. She is a bona fide fücking idiot with problems in her cortexual brain space
And merry's a bone fide freak with a potentially very dark side. Steer clear I say.
have a bone, fido. :)
obelixtim
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by obelixtim »

Harveys wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:35 am
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:02 pm
Floppykid wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:58 pm
Zakar wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 pm Can't see america electing a socialist ever. She's a child in an adult's body.
She's 5'3
Don't agree with that, she's an 8 at least.
GTFO, 6 maybe if you ignore the giant teeth.
An Australian 6 maybe but In Ireland she’s an easy 8.5/9 even after losing points for stupidity.
I thought you got extra points for stupidity in Ireland...
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merry!
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:58 pm
towny wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:10 pm These fascists certainly knew their way around the Capitol Building. Maybe the woman in this clip was the electrician that wired the place or something..... 😳

https://twitter.com/kristinminkdc/statu ... 26208?s=21
The guy stealing the hard disk at around 1:52-1:55 as well :shock:
He was acting calmly and knew what he was doing. Some people in this had a plan and were not just wound up protesters.
yup.
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Auckman
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Auckman »

What's Mitch up to? Is he really going to vote to impeach?

Yes:
- He's not up for reelection for 6 years
- He wants the Trumpanzees gone from the party; or at the very least Trump gone from 2024 ticket.
- Safer for Shumer and Democrats to take most of the blame

No:
- He can use it to attack Biden all term
- Trump's nutters are assholes but they're our assholes; GOP needs their votes
- Trump might even be done in criminal cases anyway; no point the GOP taking bullets from his voters when he might die naturally through the legal system.
towny
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by towny »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:51 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:47 pm
Whatever wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:48 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:30 pm
Mr. Very Popular wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:21 pm Florida man being Florida man, how much did they get paid to defend Trump?
I listened to C-Span live for 15min and couldn't take more. x(

The amount of lies, bad faith etc... No wonder Americans are pissed with their politicians. I thought French politicians were bad, but this is a whole new standard. Lying is a full time job here.
Yep. Not confined to politicians either. It's like dealing with children.
There should be a law that makes people accountable for their lies.
Well, online anonymity has to disappear then.

Online freedoms are going to be clamped down on and restricted in the aftermath of this. It's inevitable, and it's not just going to be the bad ones that will apply to. Senate Democrats signaled that way and Republicans before this were wanting digital media reform anyway (just a different type of reform). Already read a thing this morning the EU Parliament acted in this sphere.
The EU reforms are awful. They achieved none of the actual outcomes they were after and effectively made the problems they were trying to fix work.

If you outlaw ‘lying’ then you are going against the 1st Amendment - now the government can arrest you for what you say. Freedom of speech is dead - now only speech that is ‘true’ is free.
So who becomes the arbiter of what is true? The Trump appointed judges? Trump himself? Do we set up a Truth Commission or perhaps a Council of Public Safety? Is it Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey that decides?

Truth isn’t clear cut. What are things that all people can agree is true? Man walked on the moon? The earth is round? The theory of evolution? Jesus is lord? Trump incited a riot?

In reality, truth is usually subjective. Sometimes it comes down to different viewpoints seeing a ‘fact’ very differently. It’s a slippery slope.

Do you want ‘lying’ to be a crime when Donald Trump gets to decide what is true?
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by flaggETERNAL »

It is amazing there are people like Merry and millions others still happy to defend Trump. Truly mind boggling stuff.
towny
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by towny »

shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm To run for President you need donors

Can’t see the Sierra Club or Mothers for the O-zone coming up with any decent funding for a bid.
All she needs is McKenzie Bezos to throw down. It’s not like the old days - there are individuals in tech worth ludicrous money.

But...... i don’t think Americans are ‘green’ enough to go for a GND. A majority won’t support a baseline medical insurance because they think someone else is going to get more than them.
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flaggETERNAL
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by flaggETERNAL »

:P
towny wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:36 am
shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm To run for President you need donors

Can’t see the Sierra Club or Mothers for the O-zone coming up with any decent funding for a bid.
All she needs is McKenzie Bezos to throw down. It’s not like the old days - there are individuals in tech worth ludicrous money.

But...... i don’t think Americans are ‘green’ enough to go for a GND. A majority won’t support a baseline medical insurance because they think someone else is going to get more than them.

Has there ever been a more selfish society?
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Kiwias
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Kiwias »

All the talk coming from the GOP about unifying and working for a smooth and peaceful transition is utter bullshit. They sat quiet for two months while Trump and other GOP members continued with the lie of massive fraud, knowing all the while that their lies were hindering this smooth transition.
towny
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by towny »

flaggETERNAL wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:38 am :P
towny wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:36 am
shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm To run for President you need donors

Can’t see the Sierra Club or Mothers for the O-zone coming up with any decent funding for a bid.
All she needs is McKenzie Bezos to throw down. It’s not like the old days - there are individuals in tech worth ludicrous money.

But...... i don’t think Americans are ‘green’ enough to go for a GND. A majority won’t support a baseline medical insurance because they think someone else is going to get more than them.

Has there ever been a more selfish society?
The Romans.

Crassus was the richest man in the last days of the Republic. He owned a huge slave fire department. When there was a fire, he and his boys would arrive and he’d start negotiating the sale of property with the owner. Once he bought the burning building, and perhaps other houses in the vicinity, his fire department would go to work and extinguish the flames. If you didn’t sell he would let it burn to the ground.

Crassus ended up leading a Roman army to one of Rome’s most humiliating defeats, and after his death the Parthians mocked him by pouring molten gold down his throat.

Fwiw, a few years earlier he’d ended the slave revolt in Italy and killed Spartacus. Anyway, the Romans were cnuts.
Last edited by towny on Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
obelixtim
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by obelixtim »

Trumps speech today condemning the violence and identifying "his" supporters will surely turn some of them against him. He basically threw the Jan 6th rioters under the bus. There might be quite a few reconsidering their commitment to die for him.

Even though someone prolly had a pistol at his back to force him to say what he did, everyone knows it was a skin saving exercise, too little too late.
Last edited by obelixtim on Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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merry!
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

flaggETERNAL wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:29 am It is amazing there are people like Merry and millions others still happy to defend Trump. Truly mind boggling stuff.
we're not all hysterical drama queens.

20k to protect the capitol for a virtual inauguration, lol. what's that all about, really..
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by towny »

merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:03 am
flaggETERNAL wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:29 am It is amazing there are people like Merry and millions others still happy to defend Trump. Truly mind boggling stuff.
we're not all hysterical drama queens.

20k to protect the capitol for a virtual inauguration, lol. what's that all about, really..
Who ordered 20k troops? Can you tell us who’s responsible? Who is it that calls out and commands this body of troops.

Your problem is that you start burning the strawmen while they’re still just straw. You need to do the work to set it up. Maybe this why you’re a running joke? Just a thought.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Whatever »

merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:03 am
flaggETERNAL wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:29 am It is amazing there are people like Merry and millions others still happy to defend Trump. Truly mind boggling stuff.
we're not all hysterical drama queens.

20k to protect the capitol for a virtual inauguration, lol. what's that all about, really..
Well clearly it's for Biden to boast about his inauguration crowd.

FBI, pffft what would they know.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

towny wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:16 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:03 am
flaggETERNAL wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:29 am It is amazing there are people like Merry and millions others still happy to defend Trump. Truly mind boggling stuff.
we're not all hysterical drama queens.

20k to protect the capitol for a virtual inauguration, lol. what's that all about, really..
Who ordered 20k troops? Can you tell us who’s responsible? Who is it that calls out and commands this body of troops.

Your problem is that you start burning the strawmen while they’re still just straw. You need to do the work to set it up. Maybe this why you’re a running joke? Just a thought.
:lol:

your problem is you assume too much. trump's been playing you for years and you still haven't worked it out.

maybe that's why you come over as such an angry little girl.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Whatever »

merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:21 am
towny wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:16 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:03 am
flaggETERNAL wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:29 am It is amazing there are people like Merry and millions others still happy to defend Trump. Truly mind boggling stuff.
we're not all hysterical drama queens.

20k to protect the capitol for a virtual inauguration, lol. what's that all about, really..
Who ordered 20k troops? Can you tell us who’s responsible? Who is it that calls out and commands this body of troops.

Your problem is that you start burning the strawmen while they’re still just straw. You need to do the work to set it up. Maybe this why you’re a running joke? Just a thought.
:lol:

your problem is you assume too much. trump's been playing you for years and you still haven't worked it out.

maybe that's why you come over as such an angry little girl.
To no one in particular... These Trumpists, including the nutjob-in-chief himself, they do tend to play the man rather than the ball, don't they? Just something I've noticed.
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merry!
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

:lol:

after all the variations of 'orange man bad' and years of calling his supporters deplorables, fascists, morons, etc.....some folk have got the nerve to project about playing the man.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flyin Ryan »

DOB wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:14 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:48 pm
DOB wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:33 pm
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:26 pm Can't see support for a generic 'green new deal' translating into a credible bid for the presidency.
If it did Howie Hawkins would've had more support than 0.26% this past election.
Jo Jorgensen only got 1.2%, so I guess cutting taxes and regulations is a non-starter as a platform, too.
Relatively, that was pretty successful. I've said this elsewhere on it:
She still performed better than Gary Johnson 2012 (0.99%) with a much larger electorate than 2012. This is the party's 2nd-best performance ever percentage-wise as she finished ahead of Ed Clark 1980 (1.06%) who had a Koch as his VP nominee and funded the campaign and outreach heavily. Jorgensen had Spike Cohen. It shows growth of the party when I don't consider her as good a candidate as Gary Johnson. Johnson was a 2-term former governor of New Mexico and based on experience arguably more qualified than either Trump or Clinton to be chief executive in 2016. Jorgensen was a philosophy professor at Clemson. If Jorgensen was say the nominee in 2012, I think she'd be on the lines of 0.4-0.5%, so that she got 1.18% in a modern era record turnout election, and outperformed Gary 8 years ago shows the party base has grown and retained some of the voters that parked their vote with the Libertarians 4 years ago in rejection of Hillary and Trump.
This past election in contrast was not good for the Greens. It was aided by the Democratic Party who used shady tactics to kick them off the ballot in Pennsylvania, Montana, and Wisconsin, but the Green Party also kind of splintered a bit in the runup to the election.
It's not about my 3rd party did better than your 3rd party, it's about issues that win votes for big 2, and being strong on Green issues (and having inter alia Al Gore on your side) will win you votes in Democrat primaries.

Yes, AOC needs to deepen her base (not broaden, as I said she has a nationwide outreach, she just needs stronger roots in e.g. your neck of the woods) but as also said above, she has 8 years before she's even eligible to run for President, so she has time to do that.


Besides which, I think Greens polling poorly and Libertarians polling well this year if anything demonstrates that; a) green voters felt it was important to vote Trump out, b) Libertarian voters felt support for Jo Jorgensen was more important than having Trump beat Biden (with the broad assumption that green voters trend left and libertarians trend right).
I don't think Jorgensen really engendered any strong feelings from Libertarians other than "she is one of us and will represent what we think well". There were 3 ex-Republicans that represented the party in the presidential race in a row (Gary Johnson 2012 and 2016, Bob Barr 2008) prior to her while Jorgensen was a lifelong Libertarian minarchist that was the VP nominee way back in 1996. Everyone knew the vote count was going down, just a question of how much. That she retained the 2nd-best performance for the party ever percentage-wise in a massively huge turnout election is a good thing. It makes ballot access much easier for starters which is a lot of money to spend.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Harveys »

towny wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:36 am
shanky wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm To run for President you need donors

Can’t see the Sierra Club or Mothers for the O-zone coming up with any decent funding for a bid.
All she needs is McKenzie Bezos to throw down. It’s not like the old days - there are individuals in tech worth ludicrous money.

But...... i don’t think Americans are ‘green’ enough to go for a GND. A majority won’t support a baseline medical insurance because they think someone else is going to get more than them.
The GOP got away with staying in the 50s up to the early 00’s. The world has opened up and is changing fast, so fast that predicting the political landscape 15 years from now is not at all what it once was.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Whatever »

merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 am :lol:

after all the variations of 'orange man bad' and years of calling his supporters deplorables, fascists, morons, etc.....some folk have got the nerve to project about playing the man.
8) And you are projecting about projecting.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

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Whatever wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:45 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 am :lol:

after all the variations of 'orange man bad' and years of calling his supporters deplorables, fascists, morons, etc.....some folk have got the nerve to project about playing the man.
8) And you are projecting about projecting.
whatever.. :)

btw, if you're really in maryland, i envy you. so close to history! i'd go to dc just to walk around so i could say 'i was there' during that time.
Last edited by merry! on Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Kiwias »

merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:47 am
Whatever wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:45 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 am :lol:

after all the variations of 'orange man bad' and years of calling his supporters deplorables, fascists, morons, etc.....some folk have got the nerve to project about playing the man.
8) And you are projecting about projecting.
whatever.. :)

btw, if you're really in maryland, i envy you. so close to history!
Only six more days till Trump is history.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

Kiwias wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:55 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:47 am
Whatever wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:45 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 am :lol:

after all the variations of 'orange man bad' and years of calling his supporters deplorables, fascists, morons, etc.....some folk have got the nerve to project about playing the man.
8) And you are projecting about projecting.
whatever.. :)

btw, if you're really in maryland, i envy you. so close to history!
Only six more days till Trump is history.
tick tock..
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Whatever »

merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:47 am
Whatever wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:45 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 am :lol:

after all the variations of 'orange man bad' and years of calling his supporters deplorables, fascists, morons, etc.....some folk have got the nerve to project about playing the man.
8) And you are projecting about projecting.
whatever.. :)

btw, if you're really in maryland, i envy you. so close to history! i'd go to dc just to walk around so i could say 'i was there' during that time.
I am. So is Frog. Unfortunately not the best time to be jumping on the metro and heading in to central DC. Plus they have built fences around the Capitol and the White House (but not Mexico). But I can say "I was peacefully socially-distanced in the region" in these historic times.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flyin Ryan »

towny wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:20 am
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:51 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:47 pm
Whatever wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:48 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:30 pm

I listened to C-Span live for 15min and couldn't take more. x(

The amount of lies, bad faith etc... No wonder Americans are pissed with their politicians. I thought French politicians were bad, but this is a whole new standard. Lying is a full time job here.
Yep. Not confined to politicians either. It's like dealing with children.
There should be a law that makes people accountable for their lies.
Well, online anonymity has to disappear then.

Online freedoms are going to be clamped down on and restricted in the aftermath of this. It's inevitable, and it's not just going to be the bad ones that will apply to. Senate Democrats signaled that way and Republicans before this were wanting digital media reform anyway (just a different type of reform). Already read a thing this morning the EU Parliament acted in this sphere.
The EU reforms are awful. They achieved none of the actual outcomes they were after and effectively made the problems they were trying to fix work.

If you outlaw ‘lying’ then you are going against the 1st Amendment - now the government can arrest you for what you say. Freedom of speech is dead - now only speech that is ‘true’ is free.
So who becomes the arbiter of what is true? The Trump appointed judges? Trump himself? Do we set up a Truth Commission or perhaps a Council of Public Safety? Is it Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey that decides?

Truth isn’t clear cut. What are things that all people can agree is true? Man walked on the moon? The earth is round? The theory of evolution? Jesus is lord? Trump incited a riot?

In reality, truth is usually subjective. Sometimes it comes down to different viewpoints seeing a ‘fact’ very differently. It’s a slippery slope.

Do you want ‘lying’ to be a crime when Donald Trump gets to decide what is true?
Was thinking about this this evening. If misinformation should be removed by platforms, all these things and people that post them should in theory be forcibly removed to remain logically consistent:

-9/11 Truthers
-we never landed on the moon people
-pretty much all JFK conspiracy theorists
-everyone that disputed the 2000 and 2004 elections in the U.S.
Last edited by Flyin Ryan on Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

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towny wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:20 am
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:51 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:47 pm
Whatever wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:48 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:30 pm

I listened to C-Span live for 15min and couldn't take more. x(

The amount of lies, bad faith etc... No wonder Americans are pissed with their politicians. I thought French politicians were bad, but this is a whole new standard. Lying is a full time job here.
Yep. Not confined to politicians either. It's like dealing with children.
There should be a law that makes people accountable for their lies.
Well, online anonymity has to disappear then.

Online freedoms are going to be clamped down on and restricted in the aftermath of this. It's inevitable, and it's not just going to be the bad ones that will apply to. Senate Democrats signaled that way and Republicans before this were wanting digital media reform anyway (just a different type of reform). Already read a thing this morning the EU Parliament acted in this sphere.
The EU reforms are awful. They achieved none of the actual outcomes they were after and effectively made the problems they were trying to fix work.

If you outlaw ‘lying’ then you are going against the 1st Amendment - now the government can arrest you for what you say. Freedom of speech is dead - now only speech that is ‘true’ is free.
So who becomes the arbiter of what is true? The Trump appointed judges? Trump himself? Do we set up a Truth Commission or perhaps a Council of Public Safety? Is it Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey that decides?

Truth isn’t clear cut. What are things that all people can agree is true? Man walked on the moon? The earth is round? The theory of evolution? Jesus is lord? Trump incited a riot?

In reality, truth is usually subjective. Sometimes it comes down to different viewpoints seeing a ‘fact’ very differently. It’s a slippery slope.

Do you want ‘lying’ to be a crime when Donald Trump gets to decide what is true?
Don't Courts of Law deal every day with trying to establish the truth? That wouldn't be new.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flyin Ryan »

TheFrog wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:42 am
towny wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:20 am
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:51 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:47 pm
Whatever wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:48 pm
Yep. Not confined to politicians either. It's like dealing with children.
There should be a law that makes people accountable for their lies.
Well, online anonymity has to disappear then.

Online freedoms are going to be clamped down on and restricted in the aftermath of this. It's inevitable, and it's not just going to be the bad ones that will apply to. Senate Democrats signaled that way and Republicans before this were wanting digital media reform anyway (just a different type of reform). Already read a thing this morning the EU Parliament acted in this sphere.
The EU reforms are awful. They achieved none of the actual outcomes they were after and effectively made the problems they were trying to fix work.

If you outlaw ‘lying’ then you are going against the 1st Amendment - now the government can arrest you for what you say. Freedom of speech is dead - now only speech that is ‘true’ is free.
So who becomes the arbiter of what is true? The Trump appointed judges? Trump himself? Do we set up a Truth Commission or perhaps a Council of Public Safety? Is it Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey that decides?

Truth isn’t clear cut. What are things that all people can agree is true? Man walked on the moon? The earth is round? The theory of evolution? Jesus is lord? Trump incited a riot?

In reality, truth is usually subjective. Sometimes it comes down to different viewpoints seeing a ‘fact’ very differently. It’s a slippery slope.

Do you want ‘lying’ to be a crime when Donald Trump gets to decide what is true?
Don't Courts of Law deal every day with trying to establish the truth? That wouldn't be new.
They're not doing that. Probably end up being some algorithm that as YouTube showed harms the innocent just as much as the guilty.

Few years ago a middle school student (13 or so) at my wife's school she was a counselor at setup a fake sccount of "a parent of a girl at the school" accusing my wife of strip searching young girls. (My wife was investigating allegations of cutting, which would involve the girls changing clothes in another room putting on shorts.) The school district in the end investigated and said it was all bullshit, local digital newspaper publishes this. But the page on Facebook was still up. I reported this fake page to Facebook 5 or 6 times. They never took it down. Whether it's still up or not, I don’t know, it's been a few years and I've forgotten the name.
Last edited by Flyin Ryan on Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:53 am, edited 3 times in total.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by CrazyIslander »

I bet during the insurrection last week, the Republicans secretly hoped the rioters found the chamber they were in. Lauren Boebert tried her best to tweet where they were. They probably wished they had done more to alert the rioters. Maybe, go out to the toilets in the corridor or pop out for a coffee through the main door.

The plan was to kill/kidnap some Democrats to halt the certification.
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MrJonno
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by MrJonno »

Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:01 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:58 pm
towny wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:10 pm These fascists certainly knew their way around the Capitol Building. Maybe the woman in this clip was the electrician that wired the place or something..... 😳

https://twitter.com/kristinminkdc/statu ... 26208?s=21
The guy stealing the hard disk at around 1:52-1:55 as well :shock:
He was acting calmly and knew what he was doing. Some people in this had a plan and were not just wound up protesters.
If you were a foreign intelligence service it'd've been a great time to have some of your agents infiltrate the crowd and walk into the Capitol building to steal some info and assets, then get them out of the country immediately.

As I was watching the news feeds I called in the wife to show her the madness and the first thing she said was "How many Russian agents do you think are in that crowd?".

It reminded me of getting a tour of the USS Nimitz in the early '80s. The officer showing us around said it had a crew of over 6000 people and my dad asked "And how many of them to you estimate to be Soviet agents?". The guide glared at him for a moment before ignoring the question.
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Kiwias
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Kiwias »

merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:56 am
Kiwias wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:55 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:47 am
Whatever wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:45 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 am :lol:

after all the variations of 'orange man bad' and years of calling his supporters deplorables, fascists, morons, etc.....some folk have got the nerve to project about playing the man.
8) And you are projecting about projecting.
whatever.. :)

btw, if you're really in maryland, i envy you. so close to history!
Only six more days till Trump is history.
tick tock..
That sound is terrifying for Trump.
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DOB
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by DOB »

Kiwias wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:12 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:56 am
Kiwias wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:55 am
merry! wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:47 am
Whatever wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:45 am
8) And you are projecting about projecting.
whatever.. :)

btw, if you're really in maryland, i envy you. so close to history!
Only six more days till Trump is history.
tick tock..
That sound is terrifying for Trump.
It’s the countdown on the microwave until he burns his tongue on another pop tart?
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MrJonno
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by MrJonno »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:17 pm
Floppykid wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:16 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:12 pm 6.9.
6.98
Final offer, in the the spirit of this thread and its goal of "bipartisan civility".
It's a time to heal.
*spits on hand* - deal.
This is how all politics should be done. I can certainly accept that result even though I know you are both terrorist nazi/communist scum*.


*And I know that because I have disagreed with something you have said in the past and that is how modern politics works
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Working Class Rugger »

MrJonno wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:01 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:58 pm
towny wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:10 pm These fascists certainly knew their way around the Capitol Building. Maybe the woman in this clip was the electrician that wired the place or something..... 😳

https://twitter.com/kristinminkdc/statu ... 26208?s=21
The guy stealing the hard disk at around 1:52-1:55 as well :shock:
He was acting calmly and knew what he was doing. Some people in this had a plan and were not just wound up protesters.
If you were a foreign intelligence service it'd've been a great time to have some of your agents infiltrate the crowd and walk into the Capitol building to steal some info and assets, then get them out of the country immediately.

As I was watching the news feeds I called in the wife to show her the madness and the first thing she said was "How many Russian agents do you think are in that crowd?".

It reminded me of getting a tour of the USS Nimitz in the early '80s. The officer showing us around said it had a crew of over 6000 people and my dad asked "And how many of them to you estimate to be Soviet agents?". The guide glared at him for a moment before ignoring the question.
I often wonder if the QAnon has been the doing of a foreign actor in order to first divide and then fracture US society, politics etc. And not necessarily that of a foreign nation state.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by CrazyIslander »

Working Class Rugger wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:26 am
MrJonno wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:01 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:58 pm
towny wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:10 pm These fascists certainly knew their way around the Capitol Building. Maybe the woman in this clip was the electrician that wired the place or something..... 😳

https://twitter.com/kristinminkdc/statu ... 26208?s=21
The guy stealing the hard disk at around 1:52-1:55 as well :shock:
He was acting calmly and knew what he was doing. Some people in this had a plan and were not just wound up protesters.
If you were a foreign intelligence service it'd've been a great time to have some of your agents infiltrate the crowd and walk into the Capitol building to steal some info and assets, then get them out of the country immediately.

As I was watching the news feeds I called in the wife to show her the madness and the first thing she said was "How many Russian agents do you think are in that crowd?".

It reminded me of getting a tour of the USS Nimitz in the early '80s. The officer showing us around said it had a crew of over 6000 people and my dad asked "And how many of them to you estimate to be Soviet agents?". The guide glared at him for a moment before ignoring the question.
I often wonder if the QAnon has been the doing of a foreign actor in order to first divide and then fracture US society, politics etc. And not necessarily that of a foreign nation state.
Could be anyone really. But most likely a powerful organisation behind it. They probably have numerous contributors and Q just happened to hit the target.
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Whatever
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Whatever »

Working Class Rugger wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:26 am
MrJonno wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 am
Flyin Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:01 pm
TheFrog wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:58 pm
towny wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:10 pm These fascists certainly knew their way around the Capitol Building. Maybe the woman in this clip was the electrician that wired the place or something..... 😳

https://twitter.com/kristinminkdc/statu ... 26208?s=21
The guy stealing the hard disk at around 1:52-1:55 as well :shock:
He was acting calmly and knew what he was doing. Some people in this had a plan and were not just wound up protesters.
If you were a foreign intelligence service it'd've been a great time to have some of your agents infiltrate the crowd and walk into the Capitol building to steal some info and assets, then get them out of the country immediately.

As I was watching the news feeds I called in the wife to show her the madness and the first thing she said was "How many Russian agents do you think are in that crowd?".

It reminded me of getting a tour of the USS Nimitz in the early '80s. The officer showing us around said it had a crew of over 6000 people and my dad asked "And how many of them to you estimate to be Soviet agents?". The guide glared at him for a moment before ignoring the question.
I often wonder if the QAnon has been the doing of a foreign actor in order to first divide and then fracture US society, politics etc. And not necessarily that of a foreign nation state.
Wrt to foreign actors... We have...

One of the world's worst responses to the pandemic - 4% world's population, 20% world's deaths - despite having several government agencies dedicated to fighting exactly this. This despite having the most awesome doctors in the world.

A bunch of dumbass whitetrash hoons who managed to invade the Capitol, overcoming woefully underprepared forces. This despite having the most awesome military and intelligence agencies in the world.

A village idiot who became president and managed to divide a nation and yet received 74 million votes in an election. This despite having the most awesome democracy in the world.

...
Don't need foreign actors - stand back, and stand by Russia, China etc. It's the idiots within who present the largest danger.
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Flockwitt
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flockwitt »

The shaudenfruede is strong about this one... indeed most beautiful and joyous.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-wo ... 7d85ecbe46
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Ted.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Ted. »

obelixtim wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:01 am Trumps speech today condemning the violence and identifying "his" supporters will surely turn some of them against him. He basically threw the Jan 6th rioters under the bus. There might be quite a few reconsidering their commitment to die for him.

Even though someone prolly had a pistol at his back to force him to say what he did, everyone knows it was a skin saving exercise, too little too late.
Self interest as usual, though even then he had to be persuaded to see the sense in it.
... A senior administration official said Kushner, his wife, Ivanka Trump, Deputy Chief of Staff Dan Scavino and Pence persuaded Trump to film the video, telling him that it could boost support among some Republicans. They asked him not to mention impeachment, and he did not. ...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/ ... ending-him
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Thomas
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Thomas »

Flockwitt wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:01 am The shaudenfruede is strong about this one... indeed most beautiful and joyous.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-wo ... 7d85ecbe46
I am so aroused right now.
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fonzeee
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by fonzeee »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:02 pm
Floppykid wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:58 pm
Zakar wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:10 pm
Gavin Duffy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:56 pm Can't see america electing a socialist ever. She's a child in an adult's body.
She's 5'3
Don't agree with that, she's an 8 at least.
GTFO, 6 maybe if you ignore the giant teeth.
Ah goddamnit not this debate again -- this was the whole thing that started the Latina posts. The debate's over fellas, I have decreed that she's an (American) 6 and a Latina 4.

Case closed.
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