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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:24 pm 
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Just maybe The Don will subject the young Korean leader to a true, knock them down and drag them out Noo York property type deal. Just MAYBE both parties will come out winners ....


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:46 pm 
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slick wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
100MileDad wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
100MileDad wrote:
So Trump is meeting Kim, by May. How are our bored sufferers of Trump Disorder reacting to the news?


It's interesting. I don't see what it's going to achieve though, I'm not sure the North Koreans are acting in good faith. Unless Kim rolls out the red carpet and Trump ends up completely infatuated with him, as Xi Jinping successfully achieved. It's already a success for the North Koreans because they've faced Trump down from "talks are useless" to "I'm happy to meet him", and undoubtedly there'll be some form of sanction relief to go along with this. There won't be denuclearization though.


it's far more than the last 5 leaders of the USA accomplished though, yeah? They are actually going to talk. Probably.


I'd say possibly at this stage. A lot can happen in two months, I mean nobody expected this on Monday, did they?

The last 5 leaders of the USA actually did talk to NK, just through diplomats rather than face to face. They also came up with lots of agreements which the North Koreans systematically undermined and broke. So forgive me my pessimism.


And that is exactly the point, it's the diplomats that make things happen, they have never stopped talking. Kim has played Trump beautifully and lured him into a meeting that the USA has absolutely no hope of being ready for. These types of summits take months, even years, to get to the stage where 2 leaders can sit down and make something meaningful happen - Trumps disfunctional administration, without even a decent diplomat currently in Korea, hopes to do this in a few weeks?

NK are going to make the US look like complete fools and there is no way, no way at all, they will be sitting down for a chat in May.


Agreed here. The US also has no diplomatic links to speak with now with NK, there's nothing there. So if a meeting were to take place there's nobody to actually do the negotiating when the leader photocalls are done with. And considering most of the state department posts remain unfilled it seems wishful thinking that they'd fill those posts and sort any sort of agenda or strategy in a couple of weeks.

I kind of see something happening just before any meeting, expect a NK nuclear or missle test or a US military drill or flyover as both swing dicks beforehand, and watch how it caves everything in. And probably the North Koreans will have gotten their conditional sanction relief before then, or foreign aid.

As far as I see it denuclearization is an existential thing for NK, they're not going to give it up.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
As far as I see it denuclearization is an existential thing for NK, they're not going to give it up.

This.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:19 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:

Agreed here. The US also has no diplomatic links to speak with now with NK, there's nothing there. So if a meeting were to take place there's nobody to actually do the negotiating when the leader photocalls are done with. And considering most of the state department posts remain unfilled it seems wishful thinking that they'd fill those posts and sort any sort of agenda or strategy in a couple of weeks.

I kind of see something happening just before any meeting, expect a NK nuclear or missle test or a US military drill or flyover as both swing dicks beforehand, and watch how it caves everything in. And probably the North Koreans will have gotten their conditional sanction relief before then, or foreign aid.

As far as I see it denuclearization is an existential thing for NK, they're not going to give it up.


It's staggering to think that you do this stuff for a living.

You're like a sommelier with no tongue.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Yes yes Seneca, maybe you can add something of substance instead of being one of those other shitbags that hurls from the ditch.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Yer Man wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
As far as I see it denuclearization is an existential thing for NK, they're not going to give it up.

This.


Sounds dangerous. Who do you think would be first to attack them if they get rid of their nukes?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
As far as I see it denuclearization is an existential thing for NK, they're not going to give it up.

This.


Sounds dangerous. Who do you think would be first to attack them if they get rid of their nukes?


The question should be who do the North Koreans think would be the first to attack them if they got rid of their nukes.

They'd still want to have some form of security against any of their imagined aggressors, who may stem back to 1953 and they're still considering a ROK/USA force massing on their border as a likely threat. Maybe.

Only Dennis Rodman can say for sure.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:49 pm 
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f**king hell he actually asked that question :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Santa wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
As far as I see it denuclearization is an existential thing for NK, they're not going to give it up.

This.


Sounds dangerous. Who do you think would be first to attack them if they get rid of their nukes?


The question should be who do the North Koreans think would be the first to attack them if they got rid of their nukes.

They'd still want to have some form of security against any of their imagined aggressors, who may stem back to 1953 and they're still considering a ROK/USA force massing on their border as a likely threat. Maybe.

Only Dennis Rodman can say for sure.


Do you reckon they think the US will pile in as soon as they don't have nukes?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:07 pm 
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Juat working this through.

List of potential attackers

1. South Korea
2. United States
3. China
4. Russia
5. Japan

Anyone else?

So which of those does North Korea think so attack them if they de-nuke and why do they think it?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:09 pm 
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It's interesting. In many ways I think Tump's decision is a good one superficially, even if the meeting lacks substance. But there's other sides to it and risks. It's no secret that N. Korea's wanted this meeting since forever... for whatever reason.

There is a bit going on behind the scenes which also raise questions:
Quote:
Joseph Yun, the U.S. envoy in charge of negotiating with North Korea, quit last week, and Trump has yet to nominate an ambassador to South Korea.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:10 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Juat working this through.

List of potential attackers

1. South Korea
2. United States
3. China
4. Russia
5. Japan

Anyone else?

So which of those does North Korea think so attack them if they de-nuke and why do they think it?


I suggest not the US or SK because if NK's continuing conventional threat. Not China or Russia because why would they and they are sort of allies. And not Japan because they are currently a bunch of pusswads.

Those all seem like long term positions.

So who poses the threat? Even a long term one?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Santa wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
As far as I see it denuclearization is an existential thing for NK, they're not going to give it up.

This.


Sounds dangerous. Who do you think would be first to attack them if they get rid of their nukes?


The question should be who do the North Koreans think would be the first to attack them if they got rid of their nukes.

They'd still want to have some form of security against any of their imagined aggressors, who may stem back to 1953 and they're still considering a ROK/USA force massing on their border as a likely threat. Maybe.

Only Dennis Rodman can say for sure.


Do you reckon they think the US will pile in as soon as they don't have nukes?


It wouldn't be in their interests, you'd hope, but it might boil down to how ruffled Trump felt his ego became. He got manipulated into a fairly large drone strike on Syria about a year ago, maybe he's due for another one.

DPRK still have a shit ton of other weapons including chemical and bio that would pose a massive threat to South Korea so they'd be doing their damnedest to prevent any attacks on a suddenly no-nuclear DPRK.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:37 pm 
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Flockwitt wrote:
It's interesting. In many ways I think Tump's decision is a good one superficially, even if the meeting lacks substance. But there's other sides to it and risks. It's no secret that N. Korea's wanted this meeting since forever... for whatever reason.

There is a bit going on behind the scenes which also raise questions:
Quote:
Joseph Yun, the U.S. envoy in charge of negotiating with North Korea, quit last week, and Trump has yet to nominate an ambassador to South Korea.


International prestige and vanity. NK wants to be seen as a strong world power.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:43 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Do you reckon they think the US will pile in as soon as they don't have nukes?

The regime have spent many years persuading their population that is what would happen.So what they really think doesn't really matter.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:46 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Santa wrote:
Do you reckon they think the US will pile in as soon as they don't have nukes?

The regime have spent many years persuading their population that is what would happen.So what they really think doesn't really matter.


Wut?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:48 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:

It wouldn't be in their interests, you'd hope, but it might boil down to how ruffled Trump felt his ego became. He got manip[/code]ulated into a fairly large drone strike on Syria about a year ago, maybe he's due for another one.

DPRK still have a shit ton of other weapons including chemical and bio that would pose a massive threat to South Korea so they'd be doing their damnedest to prevent any attacks on a suddenly no-nuclear DPRK.


Oookaaaay.....


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Santa wrote:
Do you reckon they think the US will pile in as soon as they don't have nukes?

The regime have spent many years persuading their population that is what would happen.So what they really think doesn't really matter.


Wut?

They are not stupid and probably don't believe America will attack them if they don't have nukes. Point is they have done their best to make sure that is what their population believes and that is why denuclearization is not and will never be (without regime change) on the table.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:02 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Santa wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Santa wrote:
Do you reckon they think the US will pile in as soon as they don't have nukes?

The regime have spent many years persuading their population that is what would happen.So what they really think doesn't really matter.


Wut?

They are not stupid and probably don't believe America will attack them if they don't have nukes. Point is they have done their best to make sure that is what their population believes and that is why denuclearization is not and will never be (without regime change) on the table.


So the dictator is slave to the beliefs of his people you reckon?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:28 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Santa wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
As far as I see it denuclearization is an existential thing for NK, they're not going to give it up.

This.


Sounds dangerous. Who do you think would be first to attack them if they get rid of their nukes?


The question should be who do the North Koreans think would be the first to attack them if they got rid of their nukes.

They'd still want to have some form of security against any of their imagined aggressors, who may stem back to 1953 and they're still considering a ROK/USA force massing on their border as a likely threat. Maybe.

Only Dennis Rodman can say for sure.


Do you reckon they think the US will pile in as soon as they don't have nukes?

Do you actually believe that the DPRK think that they won't?

Whether the US would pile in is immaterial. I wouldn't think that they would, Donald Trump notwithstanding.

However, I don't believe that Kim Jong-un would trust them not to, hence I do not think that they would even consider giving up their nukes.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
penguin wrote:
100MileDad wrote:
So Trump is meeting Kim, by May. How are our bored sufferers of Trump Disorder reacting to the news?


I don't think I've found too many positives about Trump's presidency, and I still don't think his attempts to out-crazy Kim are healthy, but the recent sanctions seem to have been productive, and talks are always preferable to the alternative...so all in all, good news.


Personally, I worry about the prospect having the two batshit-crazy retards in the same room together.


Don't worry, DAC doesn't have any friends IRL...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:45 am 
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Santa wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Santa wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Santa wrote:
Do you reckon they think the US will pile in as soon as they don't have nukes?

The regime have spent many years persuading their population that is what would happen.So what they really think doesn't really matter.

Wut?

They are not stupid and probably don't believe America will attack them if they don't have nukes. Point is they have done their best to make sure that is what their population believes and that is why denuclearization is not and will never be (without regime change) on the table.


So the dictator is slave to the beliefs of his people you reckon?

How many nuclear powers have been invaded?

How many no nuclear powers have been invaded in the nuclear era?

And there lies your answer


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:47 am 
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He’s being contrarian for the sake of it.

You have to have something to say while waving your unfiltered Gauloise around


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:27 am 
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The only way I could see NK giving up their nukes (or even a significant reduction) would be if they got the US to agree to withdraw troops from SK. Which Trump, as an isolationist, probably wouldn't mind.

Win win. Except for SK, of course.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:45 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
The only way I could see NK giving up their nukes (or even a significant reduction) would be if they got the US to agree to withdraw troops from SK. Which Trump, as an isolationist, probably wouldn't mind.

Win win. Except for SK, of course.


The Fat Boy will also probably want to see US forces in Japan gone


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:06 am 
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You have to say that young Kim has played Trump like a fiddle here. He's increased his nuclear arsenal, has waved his knob in the face of his neighbours and he's used increasingly threatening language when referring to the US. Now he's got the US president coming running over when he asks for a chat.
It's a real template for any lunatic dictator who has recently found himself as the supreme leader of a shithole country. Get yourself a nice big stick and you can do any sort of mad shit you want.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:27 am 
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http://www.gocomics.com/tomthedancingbug/2018/03/09


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:33 am 
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alliswell wrote:
You have to say that young Kim has played Trump like a fiddle here. He's increased his nuclear arsenal, has waved his knob in the face of his neighbours and he's used increasingly threatening language when referring to the US. Now he's got the US president coming running over when he asks for a chat.
It's a real template for any lunatic dictator who has recently found himself as the supreme leader of a shithole country. Get yourself a nice big stick and you can do any sort of mad shit you want.


insightful. Can you give us a thumbnail sketch of what Trump should have done in the past year to counter the NK nuclear programme that's was started more than a decade ago.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:34 am 
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alliswell wrote:
You have to say that young Kim has played Trump like a fiddle here. He's increased his nuclear arsenal, has waved his knob in the face of his neighbours and he's used increasingly threatening language when referring to the US. Now he's got the US president coming running over when he asks for a chat.
It's a real template for any lunatic dictator who has recently found himself as the supreme leader of a shithole country. Get yourself a nice big stick and you can do any sort of mad shit you want.



If you can deliver the shit they will come running.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:38 am 
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If Trump can instigate a meaningful dialogue with NK then then he should be supported through the process, it doesn't matter whether he got the via 4d chess or because it's a beautiful relationship between a couple of narcissistic thin skinned twats.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:40 am 
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Santa wrote:
alliswell wrote:
You have to say that young Kim has played Trump like a fiddle here. He's increased his nuclear arsenal, has waved his knob in the face of his neighbours and he's used increasingly threatening language when referring to the US. Now he's got the US president coming running over when he asks for a chat.
It's a real template for any lunatic dictator who has recently found himself as the supreme leader of a shithole country. Get yourself a nice big stick and you can do any sort of mad shit you want.


insightful. Can you give us a thumbnail sketch of what Trump should have done in the past year to counter the NK nuclear programme that's was started more than a decade ago.

Why would you assume there's anything he could do? The little fat kid is running this like a boss.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:51 am 
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4071 wrote:
How many nuclear powers have been invaded?

How many no nuclear powers have been invaded in the nuclear era?

And there lies your answer


Israel and the UK have been invaded since they have been nuclear powers. India and Pakistan?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:53 am 
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alliswell wrote:
Santa wrote:
alliswell wrote:
You have to say that young Kim has played Trump like a fiddle here. He's increased his nuclear arsenal, has waved his knob in the face of his neighbours and he's used increasingly threatening language when referring to the US. Now he's got the US president coming running over when he asks for a chat.
It's a real template for any lunatic dictator who has recently found himself as the supreme leader of a shithole country. Get yourself a nice big stick and you can do any sort of mad shit you want.


insightful. Can you give us a thumbnail sketch of what Trump should have done in the past year to counter the NK nuclear programme that's was started more than a decade ago.

Why would you assume there's anything he could do? The little fat kid is running this like a boss.


So if he couldn't do anything how has he been played like a fiddle? Interested to learn about IR from you.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:02 am 
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The starting position for Trump about North Korea included statements like "Fire and fury, like the world has never seen".

He's now going to have a meeting to negotiate instead. (this is a good thing, all credit to Trump for this).

However, the North Koreans are going to see this as a significant shift in position before they've even sat down at the negotiating table, and the only thing they have done is not attack anyone... yet.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:05 am 
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It's in Vlad and Squidface's best interests to keep the Donald in power. They're playing him like a trumpet.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:08 am 
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Turbogoat wrote:
The starting position for Trump about North Korea included statements like "Fire and fury, like the world has never seen".

He's now going to have a meeting to negotiate instead. (this is a good thing, all credit to Trump for this).

However, the North Koreans are going to see this as a significant shift in position before they've even sat down at the negotiating table, and the only thing they have done is not attack anyone... yet.



So standard diplomacy did not work in the past few decades. Trump is coming with a new approach. After selling himself as being as dangerous as a sidewinder, he suddenly wants to talk about having talks ... .
NK does not know what his next move will be. Total capitulation, a trade deal proffered or The Don nukes them. The Don himself does not know either - which is what makes him even more dangerous (for Northern Korea)

Guess we will have to wait and see.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:09 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
The starting position for Trump about North Korea included statements like "Fire and fury, like the world has never seen".

He's now going to have a meeting to negotiate instead. (this is a good thing, all credit to Trump for this).

However, the North Koreans are going to see this as a significant shift in position before they've even sat down at the negotiating table, and the only thing they have done is not attack anyone... yet.



So standard diplomacy did not work in the past few decades. Trump is coming with a new approach. After selling himself as being as dangerous as a sidewinder, he suddenly wants to talk about having talks ... .
NK does not know what his next move will be. Total capitulation, a trade deal proffered or The Don nukes them. The Don himself does not know either - which is what makes him even more dangerous (for Northern Korea)

Guess we will have to wait and see.


Absolutely, acting like a complete madman has forced the other side to act a little more rationally, just like in an impending bar fight. Nobody wants to fight a madman.
Trump isn't acting, though.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:17 am 
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SecretAgentMan wrote:
It's in Vlad and Squidface's best interests to keep the Donald in power. They're playing him like a trumpet.



Yeah Korean peace is just a ruse to keep Amerrica as it is right now.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:20 am 
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Santa wrote:
alliswell wrote:
Santa wrote:
alliswell wrote:
You have to say that young Kim has played Trump like a fiddle here. He's increased his nuclear arsenal, has waved his knob in the face of his neighbours and he's used increasingly threatening language when referring to the US. Now he's got the US president coming running over when he asks for a chat.
It's a real template for any lunatic dictator who has recently found himself as the supreme leader of a shithole country. Get yourself a nice big stick and you can do any sort of mad shit you want.


insightful. Can you give us a thumbnail sketch of what Trump should have done in the past year to counter the NK nuclear programme that's was started more than a decade ago.

Why would you assume there's anything he could do? The little fat kid is running this like a boss.


So if he couldn't do anything how has he been played like a fiddle? Interested to learn about IR from you.



I'm also interested in the "increased his nuclear arsenal" and how thats just not true.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:23 am 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
The starting position for Trump about North Korea included statements like "Fire and fury, like the world has never seen".

He's now going to have a meeting to negotiate instead. (this is a good thing, all credit to Trump for this).

However, the North Koreans are going to see this as a significant shift in position before they've even sat down at the negotiating table, and the only thing they have done is not attack anyone... yet.



So standard diplomacy did not work in the past few decades. Trump is coming with a new approach. After selling himself as being as dangerous as a sidewinder, he suddenly wants to talk about having talks ... .
NK does not know what his next move will be. Total capitulation, a trade deal proffered or The Don nukes them. The Don himself does not know either - which is what makes him even more dangerous (for Northern Korea)

Guess we will have to wait and see.


Absolutely, acting like a complete madman has forced the other side to act a little more rationally, just like in an impending bar fight. Nobody wants to fight a madman.
Trump isn't acting, though.


He is paid to get results (which pay he does not collect, but give to charity)
The Don is the best thing to hit world leadership, these last few decades - a man who just MIGHT be mad enough to really back his own words.


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