POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

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BokJock
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by BokJock »

I have been too upset about the CNN thing to care about anything else tbh
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by saffer13 »

BokJock wrote:I have been too upset about the CNN thing to care about anything else tbh
:lol: :thumbup:
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

Mueller wrote:We conducted an independent criminal investigation and reported the results to the attorney general, as required by department regulations. The attorney general then concluded that it was appropriate to provide our report to Congress and to the American people. At one point in time, I requested that certain portions of the report be released and the attorney general preferred to make — preferred to make the entire report public all at once and we appreciate that the attorney general made the report largely public. And I certainly do not question the attorney general's good faith in that decision.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/ ... pt-1346453
:?

hmmm....the weirdos assured us barr was up to no good.

maybe they were just dreaming again.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Hong Kong »

“If we were confident that the president did not commit a crime we would have said so”
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Saint »

So Donny has gone from "completely exonerated" to "insufficient evidence". Oddly enough, Mueller has said neither of these things
Nothing changes from the Mueller Report. There was insufficient evidence and therefore, in our Country, a person is innocent. The case is closed! Thank you.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by tiddle »

"Not guilty by default" is some campaign slogan
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by MrJonno »

To paraphrase

"if trump was guilty we couldn't say so and would have to make the statement we are making right now but if he was not guilty we would make a different statement"
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Flockwitt »

MrJonno wrote:To paraphrase

"if trump was guilty we couldn't say so and would have to make the statement we are making right now but if he was not guilty we would make a different statement"
Yep. This.
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merry!
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

Image

:)

fat chance.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Fat Old Git »

And you think others are being played. :lol: :lol:
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

merry! wrote:Image

:)

fat chance.
Relying on the smokey-tinted lens of a Sarah Sanders statement to offer up a version of events more palatable to you isn't as convincing as you seem to think. :D
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

MrJonno wrote:To paraphrase

"if trump was guilty we couldn't say so and would have to make the statement we are making right now but if he was not guilty we would make a different statement"
If Mueller did Twitter.


tbh, that kind of succinct summary might be the only way to get through to many of his supporters.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by paddyor »

merry! wrote:
Mueller wrote:We conducted an independent criminal investigation and reported the results to the attorney general, as required by department regulations. The attorney general then concluded that it was appropriate to provide our report to Congress and to the American people. At one point in time, I requested that certain portions of the report be released and the attorney general preferred to make — preferred to make the entire report public all at once and we appreciate that the attorney general made the report largely public. And I certainly do not question the attorney general's good faith in that decision.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/ ... pt-1346453
:?

hmmm....the weirdos assured us barr was up to no good.

maybe they were just dreaming again.
Notice he said the Russian interference was real, nothing about the co duct of the people investigating it either. At some point you’ll have to decide whether he’s deep state or not.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by houtkabouter »

Merry manages to find a less reliable source than judicialwoke.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

:lol:

too dumb to know when you're getting the piss taken out of you..
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Fat Old Git »

merry! wrote::lol:

too dumb to know when you're getting the piss taken out of you..
You have more self awareness than I had given you credit for! :shock:
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Saint »

In the meantime, the Department of Energy has been hard at work with the marketing people. Henceforth, Liquidfied Natural Gas destined for export will be inow as "Molecules of Freedom"


For the avoidance of doubt, I am not kidding - this was how they were described in the press release at https://www.energy.gov/articles/departm ... eeport-lng
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Kiwias »

Saint wrote:In the meantime, the Department of Energy has been hard at work with the marketing people. Henceforth, Liquidfied Natural Gas destined for export will be inow as "Molecules of Freedom"


For the avoidance of doubt, I am not kidding - this was how they were described in the press release at https://www.energy.gov/articles/departm ... eeport-lng
I guess a genuine patriot would use only Freedom Gas when cooking his Freedom Fries.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by MungoMan »

Kiwias wrote:
Saint wrote:In the meantime, the Department of Energy has been hard at work with the marketing people. Henceforth, Liquidfied Natural Gas destined for export will be inow as "Molecules of Freedom"


For the avoidance of doubt, I am not kidding - this was how they were described in the press release at https://www.energy.gov/articles/departm ... eeport-lng
I guess a genuine patriot would use only Freedom Gas when cooking his Freedom Fries.
Gaze upon the face of Freedom!

Image
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

So... paying a bit closer attention to what Mueller just stated now.
He made it very, very clear that it was because of DoJ guidelines that he didn't bring charges against the POTUS and spoke about exactly this with AG Barr, directly contradicting what Barr then said when he brought forth his version of events.

So Barr has clearly lied.
Explicitly.
About some really quite important factors.
For political partisanship that the Attorney General is supposed to be far above.
There have been quite a few calls for Barr to be impeached already. Hearing it from the horses mouth now... that may be the tipping point.
The House may choose to subpoena Mueller to get his version on their official record (Mueller may have said he doesn't need to go before them, but that may not be his choice if they go down this route)
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Saint »

Turbogoat wrote:So... paying a bit closer attention to what Mueller just stated now.
He made it very, very clear that it was because of DoJ guidelines that he didn't bring charges against the POTUS and spoke about exactly this with AG Barr, directly contradicting what Barr then said when he brought forth his version of events.

So Barr has clearly lied.
Explicitly.
About some really quite important factors.
For political partisanship that the Attorney General is supposed to be far above.
There have been quite a few calls for Barr to be impeached already. Hearing it from the horses mouth now... that may be the tipping point.
The House may choose to subpoena Mueller to get his version on their official record (Mueller may have said he doesn't need to go before them, but that may not be his choice if they go down this route)

Plenty of commentary already though that Myellef spoke and America heard two different things. Mueller is acting within the framework of the law, DoJ policy, and his understanding. That only works if both sides agree that thses things actually exist.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Taranaki Snapper »

Turbogoat wrote:So... paying a bit closer attention to what Mueller just stated now.
He made it very, very clear that it was because of DoJ guidelines that he didn't bring charges against the POTUS and spoke about exactly this with AG Barr, directly contradicting what Barr then said when he brought forth his version of events.

So Barr has clearly lied.
Explicitly.
About some really quite important factors.
For political partisanship that the Attorney General is supposed to be far above.
There have been quite a few calls for Barr to be impeached already. Hearing it from the horses mouth now... that may be the tipping point.
The House may choose to subpoena Mueller to get his version on their official record (Mueller may have said he doesn't need to go before them, but that may not be his choice if they go down this route)
It appears that the swamp is bottomless...
Day 819: Attorney General William Barr repeatedly insisted that Robert Mueller "found no evidence" that the Trump campaign conspired with Russia to interfere in the 2016 presidential election and that Russian efforts to interfere "did not have the cooperation of President Trump or the Trump campaign." Barr also claimed Mueller's report did not find "collusion" between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. Further, Barr said that even if the Trump campaign had colluded with WikiLeaks, that was not a crime. Mueller identified "numerous" Trump campaign-Russia contacts, but the report says there was "insufficient evidence" to establish a criminal conspiracy between Trump or his campaign aides and their contacts with Russians. The report outlines how Trump was elected with Russia's help and when a federal inquiry was started to investigate the effort, Trump took multiple steps to stop or undermine it. Barr said Mueller examined 10 "episodes" where Trump may have obstructed justice, but that he and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein "disagreed with some of the special counsel's legal theories and felt that some of the episodes did not amount to obstruction." According to Barr, Trump acted out of "noncorrupt motives" because he was frustrated by Mueller's investigation, as well as media coverage that he felt was hurting his administration. (Washington Post / New York Times / Politico / NBC News / CNN / The Guardian / Bloomberg)
https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/
War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength...
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Kiwias »

The White House asked the U.S. Navy to make sure a warship named for late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) would be "out of sight" ahead of President Trump's visit to Japan over the weekend, according to an email obtained by The Wall Street Journal.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-hous ... 0?mod=e2tw
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Bokkom »

It is in the Deep State's interest to carry on with whatever side issues to distract the American public's gaze from what is really going on. Trump, no-Trump, it does not fukken matter one jot. America continues to bully countries, businesses, private individuals... whoever in the name of "national security".
The military junta in the Pentagon are closer and closer to complete control.
I hope Assange gets his day in court and his council explains to the American people how your government tramples on your constitution.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Ted. »

Fat Old Git wrote:
merry! wrote::lol:

too dumb to know when you're getting the piss taken out of you..
You have more self awareness than I had given you credit for! :shock:
Shot! :lol:
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Ted. »

Turbogoat wrote:
MrJonno wrote:To paraphrase

"if trump was guilty we couldn't say so and would have to make the statement we are making right now but if he was not guilty we would make a different statement"
If Mueller did Twitter.


tbh, that kind of succinct summary might be the only way to get through to many of his supporters.
It should be even more unequivocal.
“If we were confident that the president did not commit a crime we would have said so”
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Turbogoat wrote:
merry! wrote:Image

:)

fat chance.
Relying on the smokey-tinted lens of a Sarah Sanders statement to offer up a version of events more palatable to you isn't as convincing as you seem to think. :D
Is that the woman who admitted she lies to make Trump look better?
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by comets »

Robert Mueller literally says Russian intelligence hacked Hillary Clinton’s emails to influence our election and when he tried to investigate this serious attack on the United States Trump obstructed him. He can’t indict a sitting president and is begging Congress to impeach him.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

Anonymous. wrote:
Is that the woman who admitted she lies to make Trump look better?
Yes/ No/ Not sure/ Maybe. She used to lie her ass off for him on a daily basis, but doesn't anymore - not because she stopped lying, but because she stopped holding Press briefings, which is kinda the core role of the Press Secretary. She's on record as saying she wants to be remembered as "transparent and honest" which is just... delusional. Kinda sad really.

There's also Hope Hicks, who was just called in to testify in front of various Committees, and just flat out refused to answer when asked if she'd lied or been directed to lie for Trump, despite being very cooperative on all other fronts.

Or there's Kellyanne Conway, who apparently doesn't lie, she just uses 'alternative facts' - a semantic ploy so desperate even poor Merry wouldn't fall for that one.

Or there's Omarosa Manigault Newman - arch evil reality TV star turned Presidential advisor who either lied while in the administration or lied after getting chucked out... your call about when she was being more truthful.

Or there's Ivanka Trump, handbag designer turned Presidential Advisor who apparently has no idea where all the Inauguration committee money went.

Or there's Melania Trump who has to pretend to be the loving wife of Trump and aint nobody falling for that one.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Mr Mike »

Kiwias wrote:The White House asked the U.S. Navy to make sure a warship named for late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) would be "out of sight" ahead of President Trump's visit to Japan over the weekend, according to an email obtained by The Wall Street Journal.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-hous ... 0?mod=e2tw
Pedant point, named for McCain Sr and McCain Jr, McCain III was added as a namesake later.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

Bokkom wrote:It is in the Deep State's interest to carry on with whatever side issues to distract the American public's gaze from what is really going on. Trump, no-Trump, it does not fukken matter one jot. America continues to bully countries, businesses, private individuals... whoever in the name of "national security".
The military junta in the Pentagon are closer and closer to complete control.
I hope Assange gets his day in court and his council explains to the American people how your government tramples on your constitution.
It's a bold strategy to start a post by referring to the Deep State, but your larger point - that actual important matters on the World stage should really be the priority is about right.
Unfortunately, the Administration and the policy of being dicks to other countries/ businesses/ individuals are inextricably linked. Just ask the countries: Venezuela, Yemen, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba. Canada, Germany, Honduras, Guatemala, Mexico, China, Montenegro etc...
Just ask the businesses: Amazon, the NYT, Ford, Harley Davidson etc...
Just ask the private individuals: James Comey, Jeff Bezos, Soy Farmers, every woman ever etc...

Taking issue with Trump isn't merely because he is wearing a tan suit or is a secret muslim, there are very real world ramifications of his venal, corrupt, self-serving words and actions that should never be quietly accepted, even when there are a thousand other things that he does that also require the same attention.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by kiwinoz »

comets wrote:
Robert Mueller literally says Russian intelligence hacked Hillary Clinton’s emails to influence our election and when he tried to investigate this serious attack on the United States Trump obstructed him. He can’t indict a sitting president and is begging Congress to impeach him.
The DNC emails are the one allegedly hacked NOT Hillary's private server (BTW which apparently was treated like a glory hole in a biker bar by around a dozen foreign entities.).

Mueller's role is to gather evidence and present that to the DoJ for a decision whether to proceed. He cant make the decision to indict or not.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Rinkals »

Turbogoat wrote:
merry! wrote:Image

:)

fat chance.
Relying on the smokey-tinted lens of a Sarah Sanders statement to offer up a version of events more palatable to you isn't as convincing as you seem to think. :D
Because Merry considers her truthful and reliable.

I don't think the rest of us are quite so gullible (with the exception of a certain immigrant school teacher, naturally).

To be honest, I think Trump is perfectly entitled to view Mueller's actions as an exoneration. His declaration that the report speaks for him and he has nothing to add hands Barr the mechanism for censoring the parts which may be damaging to Trump and gives him a free pass.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Rinkals »

Turbogoat wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Is that the woman who admitted she lies to make Trump look better?
Yes/ No/ Not sure/ Maybe. She used to lie her ass off for him on a daily basis, but doesn't anymore - not because she stopped lying, but because she stopped holding Press briefings, which is kinda the core role of the Press Secretary. She's on record as saying she wants to be remembered as "transparent and honest" which is just... delusional. Kinda sad really.

There's also Hope Hicks, who was just called in to testify in front of various Committees, and just flat out refused to answer when asked if she'd lied or been directed to lie for Trump, despite being very cooperative on all other fronts.

Or there's Kellyanne Conway, who apparently doesn't lie, she just uses 'alternative facts' - a semantic ploy so desperate even poor Merry wouldn't fall for that one.

Or there's Omarosa Manigault Newman - arch evil reality TV star turned Presidential advisor who either lied while in the administration or lied after getting chucked out... your call about when she was being more truthful.

Or there's Ivanka Trump, handbag designer turned Presidential Advisor who apparently has no idea where all the Inauguration committee money went.

Or there's Melania Trump who has to pretend to be the loving wife of Trump and aint nobody falling for that one.
I think you badly underestimate him.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Rinkals »

Turbogoat wrote:
Bokkom wrote:It is in the Deep State's interest to carry on with whatever side issues to distract the American public's gaze from what is really going on. Trump, no-Trump, it does not fukken matter one jot. America continues to bully countries, businesses, private individuals... whoever in the name of "national security".
The military junta in the Pentagon are closer and closer to complete control.
I hope Assange gets his day in court and his council explains to the American people how your government tramples on your constitution.
It's a bold strategy to start a post by referring to the Deep State, but your larger point - that actual important matters on the World stage should really be the priority is about right.
Unfortunately, the Administration and the policy of being dicks to other countries/ businesses/ individuals are inextricably linked. Just ask the countries: Venezuela, Yemen, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba. Canada, Germany, Honduras, Guatemala, Mexico, China, Montenegro etc...
Just ask the businesses: Amazon, the NYT, Ford, Harley Davidson etc...
Just ask the private individuals: James Comey, Jeff Bezos, Soy Farmers, every woman ever etc...

Taking issue with Trump isn't merely because he is wearing a tan suit or is a secret muslim, there are very real world ramifications of his venal, corrupt, self-serving words and actions that should never be quietly accepted, even when there are a thousand other things that he does that also require the same attention.
Are you sure that's what he's saying?

I was under the impression he was laying it all at the door of the Illuminati.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

Rinkals wrote: To be honest, I think Trump is perfectly entitled to view Mueller's actions as an exoneration.
Maybe, but that's because Trump has a very fanciful definition of 'exoneration'.

Really, if he was exonerated by the report, he was exonerated the second they convened the Special Investigation, as they were never going to be able to indict a sitting President according to the rules they adhered to. As Mueller said, if there is going to be some form of indictment, it was never going to come from the criminal justice system. Congress, it's your time to shine.

Actual exoneration though, is a different kettle of fish. Mueller spelled out: IF there had been evidence to show that Trump had not committed a crime, they would have said so. They clearly, carefully and deliberately did NOT say so.

As much as it would have been a glorious denouement to see Mueller slap down charges of Presidenting-Under-the-Influence, that wasn't an option. What's happening now is that pressure is building, the truth of the report is becoming more and more difficult to ignore, it isn't going away, and action against first of all Barr is going to become a lot more likely.

It sucks that politics, rather than justice may well be the deciding factor in impeachment of course.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

Rinkals wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Bokkom wrote:It is in the Deep State's interest to carry on with whatever side issues to distract the American public's gaze from what is really going on. Trump, no-Trump, it does not fukken matter one jot. America continues to bully countries, businesses, private individuals... whoever in the name of "national security".
The military junta in the Pentagon are closer and closer to complete control.
I hope Assange gets his day in court and his council explains to the American people how your government tramples on your constitution.
It's a bold strategy to start a post by referring to the Deep State, but your larger point - that actual important matters on the World stage should really be the priority is about right.
Unfortunately, the Administration and the policy of being dicks to other countries/ businesses/ individuals are inextricably linked. Just ask the countries: Venezuela, Yemen, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba. Canada, Germany, Honduras, Guatemala, Mexico, China, Montenegro etc...
Just ask the businesses: Amazon, the NYT, Ford, Harley Davidson etc...
Just ask the private individuals: James Comey, Jeff Bezos, Soy Farmers, every woman ever etc...

Taking issue with Trump isn't merely because he is wearing a tan suit or is a secret muslim, there are very real world ramifications of his venal, corrupt, self-serving words and actions that should never be quietly accepted, even when there are a thousand other things that he does that also require the same attention.
Are you sure that's what he's saying?

I was under the impression he was laying it all at the door of the Illuminati.
Oh he was blaming the Illuminati for sure. I was just pointing out the La Cosa NosTrump were doing far more nefarious deeds against countries, businesses and individuals than any secret elite cabal.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Kiwias »

Turbogoat wrote:
Rinkals wrote: To be honest, I think Trump is perfectly entitled to view Mueller's actions as an exoneration.
Maybe, but that's because Trump has a very fanciful definition of 'exoneration'.

Really, if he was exonerated by the report, he was exonerated the second they convened the Special Investigation, as they were never going to be able to indict a sitting President according to the rules they adhered to. As Mueller said, if there is going to be some form of indictment, it was never going to come from the criminal justice system. Congress, it's your time to shine.

Actual exoneration though, is a different kettle of fish. Mueller spelled out: IF there had been evidence to show that Trump had not committed a crime, they would have said so. They clearly, carefully and deliberately did NOT say so.

As much as it would have been a glorious denouement to see Mueller slap down charges of Presidenting-Under-the-Influence, that wasn't an option. What's happening now is that pressure is building, the truth of the report is becoming more and more difficult to ignore, it isn't going away, and action against first of all Barr is going to become a lot more likely.

It sucks that politics, rather than justice may well be the deciding factor in impeachment of course.
Though ultimately, it will be a desire for justice that convinces the required number of GOP senators to vote for impeachment. Naturally this will require more thought and reflection on their behalf than they have shown thus far and maybe even more convincing evidence, whatever that may turn out to be.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Rinkals »

Turbogoat wrote:
Rinkals wrote: To be honest, I think Trump is perfectly entitled to view Mueller's actions as an exoneration.
Maybe, but that's because Trump has a very fanciful definition of 'exoneration'.

Really, if he was exonerated by the report, he was exonerated the second they convened the Special Investigation, as they were never going to be able to indict a sitting President according to the rules they adhered to. As Mueller said, if there is going to be some form of indictment, it was never going to come from the criminal justice system. Congress, it's your time to shine.

Actual exoneration though, is a different kettle of fish. Mueller spelled out: IF there had been evidence to show that Trump had not committed a crime, they would have said so. They clearly, carefully and deliberately did NOT say so.

As much as it would have been a glorious denouement to see Mueller slap down charges of Presidenting-Under-the-Influence, that wasn't an option. What's happening now is that pressure is building, the truth of the report is becoming more and more difficult to ignore, it isn't going away, and action against first of all Barr is going to become a lot more likely.

It sucks that politics, rather than justice may well be the deciding factor in impeachment of course.
No, but Mueller doesn't draw any conclusions. He doesn't say what he found; he just says what he didn't find which is a cop out.

If Mueller isn't unequivocal in his conclusions, then Trump is entitled to regard them as non-committal. Which they are: a nothing burger. He might claim that it's up to Congress to pursue it but Congress is hobbled by it's bipartisan nature and split along party lines.

Which essentially means that he has given Trump a free pass.
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