POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Santa »

My summary of Meuller's speech:

1. Russian interference was the central investigation. There was some. No collusion though.

2. Barr has played a straight bat with the way he released the report.

3. They thought they couldn't make a charging decision on obstruction so they didn't. We're they right? I don't know. I understand the OLC opinion says you can't indict. Does it say you can't charge? Mueller isn't beyond criticism on this point. He may have f.ucked up.

3. Despite facially adhering to the fairness principle of not formally accusing Trump of obstruction when he had no recourse to a trial to clear himself, they then undermined it by implying that he should have been charged anyway. That's called having it both ways. It's a problem. There's a reasonable case that he's undermining the presumption of innocence in the way he has handled things.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4 ... g-his-role

4 Despite what some morons think there is no contradiction between what Barr said and what Mueller said around the declination. Mueller said would not consider charges. That doesn't mean that they would have charged in the absence of the OLC guidance. Wven if they thoughts was guilty they might have determined that they didn't have a chargeable case. It means they didn't consider whether they had a chargeable case and therefore the OLC guidance didn't affect that decision. The DOJ and SPO have issued a joint statement to that effect.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... eller-barr

5. Not exonerated is not a legal threshold. It has no place in this kind of report. Prosecutors charge or dont. If they dont charge the presumption of innocence holds. It holds until a person is found guily. Mueller undermines the presumption of innocence.

6. The final thing that almost nobody is talking about is the basis for charging the president with obstruction in these circumstances in the first place. Barr made that point that he disagreed as a matter of law that the (or many of the) 10 acts were obstruction.

The has been a very robust discussion on Lawfare about the weakness of Meuller's constitutional analysis as it relates to the application of the obstruction laws to Trump.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/mueller-rep ... is-part-ii

Basically he saying that Mueller misinterpreted the clear statement rule in relation to whether the obstruction statute applies in this case. I reckon he's winning. He should as he's a former head of the OLC and teaches at Harvard.
Last edited by Santa on Thu May 30, 2019 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Big Nipper »

Santa wrote:My summary of Meuller's speech:

1. 'Collusion' was the central investigation and there wasn't any.

2. Barr has played a straight bat with the way he released the report.

3. They thought they couldn't make a charging decision on obstruction so they didn't. We're they right? I don't know. I understand the OLC opinion says you can't indict. Does it say you can't charge? Mueller isn't beyond criticism on this point. He may have f.ucked up.

3. Despite facially adhering to the fairness principle of not formally accusing Trump of obstruction when he had no recourse to a trial to clear himself, they then undermined it by implying that he should have been charged anyway. That's called having it both ways. It's a problem. There's a reasonable case that he's undermining the presumption of innocence in the way he has handled things.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4 ... g-his-role

4 Despite what some morons think there is no contradiction between what Barr said and what Mueller said around the declination. Mueller said would not consider charges. That doesn't mean that they would have charged in the absence of the OLC guidance. It means they didn't consider it. The DOJ and SPO have issued a joint statement to that effect.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... eller-barr

5. Not exonerated is not a legal threshold. It has no place in this kind of report. Prosecutors charge or dont. If they dont charge the presumption of innocwof innocence holds. It holda until a person is found guily. Mueller undermines the presumption of innocence.

6. The final thing that almost nobody is talking about is the basis for charging the president with obstruction in these circumstances in the first place. Barr made that point that he disagreed as a matter of law that the (or many of the) 10 acts were obstruction.

The has been a very robust discussion on Lawfare about the weakness of Meuller's constitutional analysis as it relates to the application of the obstruction laws to Trump.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/mueller-rep ... is-part-ii

Basically he saying that Mueller misinterpreted the clear statement rule in relation to whether the obstruction statute applies in this case. I reckon he's winning. He should so he's a former head of the OLC and teaches at Harvard.
Interesting
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

Big Nipper wrote:
Santa wrote:My summary of Meuller's speech:
Interesting
Riveting
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by houtkabouter »

My take on this

1. trumpo is a cunt
2. Barr is a lying fucktard
3. mueller is a straight up fellow
4. Hi Santa
5. Merry made a funnynotfunny
6. http://www.Randomlink.com
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

would you like to sniff my grots, hoot?
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Kiwias »

Turbogoat wrote:
Big Nipper wrote:
Santa wrote:My summary of Meuller's speech:
Interesting
Riveting
Fascinating
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by houtkabouter »

merry! wrote:would you like to sniff my grots, hoot?
Is that a gammon thing?
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by BokJock »

Fox News legal guy disagrees with Santa and Merry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbswCOpAUa8
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

houtkabouter wrote:
merry! wrote:would you like to sniff my grots, hoot?
Is that a gammon thing?
It's one of his better posts, admittedly.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by BokJock »

I can't understand how much clearer Mueller has to be that Trump obstructed justice and that congress needs to act.

"what you are seeing and hearing is not what is happening"
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

While it's all starting to build up, Trump is now getting undercut by his Acting Secretary of Defence/ Boeing Executive, who is claiming that the North Korean ballistic missile test was a violation of of various UN Resolutions.
In case you'd forgotten, Trump has been saying it was just a little ballistic missile test and therefore didn't break Kim's promise to Trump not to do any more tests.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by zzzz »

Santa wrote:My summary of Meuller's speech:

1. Russian interference was the central investigation. There was some. No collusion though.

2. Barr has played a straight bat with the way he released the report.

3. They thought they couldn't make a charging decision on obstruction so they didn't. We're they right? I don't know. I understand the OLC opinion says you can't indict. Does it say you can't charge? Mueller isn't beyond criticism on this point. He may have f.ucked up.

3. Despite facially adhering to the fairness principle of not formally accusing Trump of obstruction when he had no recourse to a trial to clear himself, they then undermined it by implying that he should have been charged anyway. That's called having it both ways. It's a problem. There's a reasonable case that he's undermining the presumption of innocence in the way he has handled things.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4 ... g-his-role

4 Despite what some morons think there is no contradiction between what Barr said and what Mueller said around the declination. Mueller said would not consider charges. That doesn't mean that they would have charged in the absence of the OLC guidance. Wven if they thoughts was guilty they might have determined that they didn't have a chargeable case. It means they didn't consider whether they had a chargeable case and therefore the OLC guidance didn't affect that decision. The DOJ and SPO have issued a joint statement to that effect.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... eller-barr

5. Not exonerated is not a legal threshold. It has no place in this kind of report. Prosecutors charge or dont. If they dont charge the presumption of innocence holds. It holds until a person is found guily. Mueller undermines the presumption of innocence.

6. The final thing that almost nobody is talking about is the basis for charging the president with obstruction in these circumstances in the first place. Barr made that point that he disagreed as a matter of law that the (or many of the) 10 acts were obstruction.

The has been a very robust discussion on Lawfare about the weakness of Meuller's constitutional analysis as it relates to the application of the obstruction laws to Trump.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/mueller-rep ... is-part-ii

Basically he saying that Mueller misinterpreted the clear statement rule in relation to whether the obstruction statute applies in this case. I reckon he's winning. He should as he's a former head of the OLC and teaches at Harvard.
You maybe wasting your time here. Not sure many of the protagonists on this thread are that interested in understanding how off piste Mueller is going.
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merry!
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by merry! »

BokJock wrote:I can't understand how much clearer Mueller has to be that Trump obstructed justice and that congress needs to act.

"what you are seeing and hearing is not what is happening"
alternative truths?


(@ruggerbugger - declas is coming.. :D )
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by zzzz »

P.S

The million dollar question here is:

If Mueller thinks a Special Prosecutor is prohibted by Justice Dept guidance from making a prosecution recomendation against a sitting president, what the f*ck was he doing accepting this role in the first place given that is exactly what it required him to do. And if he believes he is required to hand that decison to the Justice Dept - which begs the question what he thought was the point of a Special Prosecutor in the first place - on what basis would he then start throwing political grenades at them when, having punted it to Justice, Justice tell him his legal theory of collusion is horsehit. I mean it's not like Barr didn't write a legal brief expalining exactly what he thought about Mueller's theory before Meuller delivered his report and effectively handed the decison to Barr.

There are good reasons why prosecutors are barred from making statements of wrong doing about uncharged parties - a formal Justice Dept policy (note: not guidance) that Mueller for some reason doesn't feel bound by.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Mr Mike »

zzzz wrote:P.S

The million dollar question here is:

If Mueller thinks a Special Prosecutor is prohibted by Justice Dept guidance from making a prosecution recomendation against a sitting president, what the f*ck was he doing accepting this role in the first place given that is exactly what it required him to do.
That wasn’t what it necessarily required and the issue was addressed specifically.
First, the opinion explicitly permits the investigation of a sitting President because it is important to preserve evidence while memories are fresh and documents are available. Among other things, that evidence could be used if there were co-conspirators who could now be charged.

And second, the opinion says that the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting President of wrongdoing.
The second point is the most neglected and overlooked point when talking about the 10 identified potential acts of obstruction, particularly the potential witness tampering.

Mueller main point was “read the report you lazy bastards” and stop the handwringing and act on strengthening protectionism’s against foreign interference.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

zzzz wrote:P.S

The million dollar question here is:

If Mueller thinks a Special Prosecutor is prohibted by Justice Dept guidance from making a prosecution recomendation against a sitting president, what the f*ck was he doing accepting this role in the first place given that is exactly what it required him to do. And if he believes he is required to hand that decison to the Justice Dept - which begs the question what he thought was the point of a Special Prosecutor in the first place - on what basis would he then start throwing political grenades at them when, having punted it to Justice, Justice tell him his legal theory of collusion is horsehit. I mean it's not like Barr didn't write a legal brief expalining exactly what he thought about Mueller's theory before Meuller delivered his report and effectively handed the decison to Barr.

There are good reasons why prosecutors are barred from making statements of wrong doing about uncharged parties - a formal Justice Dept policy (note: not guidance) that Mueller for some reason doesn't feel bound by.
Maybe he figured he was hired to be an investigator, not a prosecutor, and his quite profound sense of duty and rule-abidance compelled him to follow his remit to the letter?

I'm less inclined to hate on Mueller and more interested to see how things develop as the Democrats warble back and forth between their principles and their political second-guessing of themselves. They may easily dither long enough to let this bleed into the election season, and have it all blow up in their faces by looking weak, or they may take a heroic stand, have the GOP senate shoot an impeachment down, allowing Trump to play both the victim card and the "I won" card at the same time (which Nancy - or as I call her... Nancy is clearly trying to avoid).
Or... pressure continues to build, the clear evidence of the venal, self-interested gameplan of Trump bites him in the ass at the polls in 2020.

It's a bit of a tightrope to walk, and it's more about how the Dems play it right now. Pass the popcorn.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

Mr Mike wrote:
zzzz wrote:P.S

The million dollar question here is:

If Mueller thinks a Special Prosecutor is prohibted by Justice Dept guidance from making a prosecution recomendation against a sitting president, what the f*ck was he doing accepting this role in the first place given that is exactly what it required him to do.
That wasn’t what it necessarily required and the issue was addressed specifically.
First, the opinion explicitly permits the investigation of a sitting President because it is important to preserve evidence while memories are fresh and documents are available. Among other things, that evidence could be used if there were co-conspirators who could now be charged.

And second, the opinion says that the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting President of wrongdoing.
The second point is the most neglected and overlooked point when talking about the 10 identified potential acts of obstruction, particularly the potential witness tampering.

Mueller main point was “read the report you lazy bastards” and stop the handwringing and act on strengthening protectionism’s against foreign interference.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

The inaction on securing the 2020 election from outside interference is something to marvel at.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Mr Mike »

This was one of the better summaries.
On Wednesday morning, Robert Mueller stood behind a podium and drily summarized the findings of a report that was released over a month ago. His remarks included no new information about his office’s investigation into Russia’s election interference, or President Trump’s alleged efforts to obstruct that investigation.

But his statement was massive, “game changing” news, nonetheless — because virtually all Americans hate reading long documents (and American journalists and politicians are, apparently, no exception).
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

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Image
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by BokJock »

Back to your "best"
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by penguin »

BokJock wrote:Back to your "best"
You'd think that just by accident one would be good...but no. It's like watching someone attempt a hurdles race and not even get off the ground at each obstacle.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by zzzz »

Mr Mike wrote:
zzzz wrote:P.S

The million dollar question here is:

If Mueller thinks a Special Prosecutor is prohibted by Justice Dept guidance from making a prosecution recomendation against a sitting president, what the f*ck was he doing accepting this role in the first place given that is exactly what it required him to do.
That wasn’t what it necessarily required and the issue was addressed specifically.
First, the opinion explicitly permits the investigation of a sitting President because it is important to preserve evidence while memories are fresh and documents are available. Among other things, that evidence could be used if there were co-conspirators who could now be charged.

And second, the opinion says that the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting President of wrongdoing.
The second point is the most neglected and overlooked point when talking about the 10 identified potential acts of obstruction, particularly the potential witness tampering.

Mueller main point was “read the report you lazy bastards” and stop the handwringing and act on strengthening protectionism’s against foreign interference.


1. If Mueller's point is he only ever intended to conduct an evidence gathering investigation because he felt only that was permitted under the guidance, he (a) should have been up front about that because its not what the offical terms of reference seem to require, (b) not presented a redundant charging analysis, and (c) shut the f*ck up. The Mueller report is untested evidence. One of the reasons prosecutors are barred from making statements of wrong doing about uncharged parties is that by declining to charge, a prosecutor is declining to have tested either his evidence or his legal theories. So he isn't allowed to bad mouth investigation subjects in reliance on them. And preservation of evidence is explicity ruled out as grounds for doing this in the very opinion Mueller claims to be bound by. "As a series of cases makes clear, there is ordinarily ‘no legitimate governmental interest served’ by the government’s public allegation of wrongdoing by an uncharged party, and this is true ‘regardless of what criminal charges may . . . b[e] contemplated by the Assistant United States Attorney against the [third-party] for the future,'” In addition, the idea evidence would go stale before the end of even a second Trump term is risible.

2. Your second point above notes the opinion expressly tells Prosecutors it's the legislatives job to investigate a sitting president. Far from supporting what Mueller is doing, it actually undermines him. This is the heart of the issue. When the legislature investigates a president it is essentially a political process. One the one hand the legislature are unbounded by the process rules and formal requirements criminal law imposes but on the other hand they don't have the power of the executive branch at their beck and call. Which is how it should be: the executive branch of the state has to be constrained by law. What Mueller appears to have done is take his Special Prosecutor appointment (with all the associated executive powers) and then unhook it from all the limitations that are meant to apply to those powwers so that he could produce a weapon for use in the legislative process. The special counsel regulations were expressly written to stop this by making Special Prosecutors subject to DoJ rules and processes.
Last edited by zzzz on Thu May 30, 2019 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by happyhooker »

Oops Donald
(Italics mine)
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Russia, Russia, Russia! That’s all you heard at the beginning of this Witch Hunt Hoax...And now Russia has disappeared because I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected. It was a crime that didn’t exist. So now the Dems and their partner, the Fake News Media,.....
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by houtkabouter »

penguin wrote:
BokJock wrote:Back to your "best"
You'd think that just by accident one would be good...but no. It's like watching someone attempt a hurdles race and not even get off the ground at each obstacle.
I’d settle for one just being correct, never mind funny.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by happyhooker »

happyhooker wrote:Oops Donald
(Italics mine)
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Russia, Russia, Russia! That’s all you heard at the beginning of this Witch Hunt Hoax...And now Russia has disappeared because I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected. It was a crime that didn’t exist. So now the Dems and their partner, the Fake News Media,.....
It's been deleted
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by BokJock »

happyhooker wrote:Oops Donald
(Italics mine)
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Russia, Russia, Russia! That’s all you heard at the beginning of this Witch Hunt Hoax...And now Russia has disappeared because I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected. It was a crime that didn’t exist. So now the Dems and their partner, the Fake News Media,.....
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Mr Mike »

zzzz wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:
zzzz wrote:P.S

The million dollar question here is:

If Mueller thinks a Special Prosecutor is prohibted by Justice Dept guidance from making a prosecution recomendation against a sitting president, what the f*ck was he doing accepting this role in the first place given that is exactly what it required him to do.
That wasn’t what it necessarily required and the issue was addressed specifically.
First, the opinion explicitly permits the investigation of a sitting President because it is important to preserve evidence while memories are fresh and documents are available. Among other things, that evidence could be used if there were co-conspirators who could now be charged.

And second, the opinion says that the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting President of wrongdoing.
The second point is the most neglected and overlooked point when talking about the 10 identified potential acts of obstruction, particularly the potential witness tampering.

Mueller main point was “read the report you lazy bastards” and stop the handwringing and act on strengthening protectionism’s against foreign interference.
1. If Mueller's point is he only ever intended to conduct an evidence gathering investigation because he felt only that was permitted under the guidance, he (a) should have been up front about that because its not what the offical terms of reference seem to require, (b) not presented a redundant charging analysis, and (c) shut the f*ck up. The Mueller report is untested evidence. One of the reasons prosecutors are barred from making statements of wrong doing about uncharged parties is that by declining to charge, a prosecutor is declining to have tested either his evidence or his legal theories. So he isn't allowed to bad mouth investigation subjects in reliance on them. And preservation of evidence is explicity ruled out as grounds for doing this in the very opinion Mueller claims to be bound by. "As a series of cases makes clear, there is ordinarily ‘no legitimate governmental interest served’ by the government’s public allegation of wrongdoing by an uncharged party, and this is true ‘regardless of what criminal charges may . . . b[e] contemplated by the Assistant United States Attorney against the [third-party] for the future,'” In addition, the idea evidence would go stale before the end of even a second Trump term is risible.

2. Your second point above notes the opinion expressly tells Prosecutors it's the legislatives job to investigate a sitting president. Far from supporting what Mueller is doing, it actually undermines him. This is the heart of the issue. When the legislature investigates a president it is essentially a political process. One the one hand the legislature are unbounded by the process rules and formal requirements criminal law imposes but on the other hand they don't have the power of the executive branch at their beck and call. Which is how it should be: the executive branch of the state has to be constrained by law. What Mueller appears to have done is take his Special Prosecutor appointment (with all the associated executive powers) and then unhook it from all the limitations that are meant to apply to those powwers so that he could produce a weapon for use in the legislative process. The special counsel regulations were expressly written to stop this by making Special Prosecutors subject to DoJ rules and processes.
The points aren’t mine, they are extracts from Mueller’s statement yesterday but I have created some confusion when I referenced the “second point”. I meant the second part of his first paragraph, dealing with “co-conspirators who could now be charged”.

I share Barr’s view that Mueller has taken an overly restrictive view of the OLS opinion and shouldn’t have left the narrative there without at least some better developed legal analysis. Hence the reference to the failure to indict possible co-conspirators on obstruction (especially for witness tampering) if the evidence was sufficient.

I also don’t think it is a question of what he “intended” to do. His appointment and terms of reference were clear(ish) and could (and did) result in indictments for a number of people in connection with matters arising from that process. Where the investigation led to consideration of acts of the President the OLS opinion then (in his view) started to impact his options.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Glaston »

Trump is a baby.

They tried to hide the USS John S McCain from view during Trumps visit to Japan.

Sailers with hats with that ships name on, werent even allowed to watch his speech.

What a petty fecktard.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Bogbunny »

Glaston wrote:Trump is a baby.

They tried to hide the USS John S McCain from view during Trumps visit to Japan.

Sailers with hats with that ships name on, werent even allowed to watch his speech.

What a petty fecktard.
Shit way to treat the memory of a war hero, Corporal Bonespurs ya cnut.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Mr Mike »

Three war heroes, including two Admirals.
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Bokkom »

Turbogoat wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Bokkom wrote:It is in the Deep State's interest to carry on with whatever side issues to distract the American public's gaze from what is really going on. Trump, no-Trump, it does not fukken matter one jot. America continues to bully countries, businesses, private individuals... whoever in the name of "national security".
The military junta in the Pentagon are closer and closer to complete control.
I hope Assange gets his day in court and his council explains to the American people how your government tramples on your constitution.
It's a bold strategy to start a post by referring to the Deep State, but your larger point - that actual important matters on the World stage should really be the priority is about right.
Unfortunately, the Administration and the policy of being dicks to other countries/ businesses/ individuals are inextricably linked. Just ask the countries: Venezuela, Yemen, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba. Canada, Germany, Honduras, Guatemala, Mexico, China, Montenegro etc...
Just ask the businesses: Amazon, the NYT, Ford, Harley Davidson etc...
Just ask the private individuals: James Comey, Jeff Bezos, Soy Farmers, every woman ever etc...

Taking issue with Trump isn't merely because he is wearing a tan suit or is a secret muslim, there are very real world ramifications of his venal, corrupt, self-serving words and actions that should never be quietly accepted, even when there are a thousand other things that he does that also require the same attention.
Are you sure that's what he's saying?

I was under the impression he was laying it all at the door of the Illuminati.
Oh he was blaming the Illuminati for sure. I was just pointing out the La Cosa NosTrump were doing far more nefarious deeds against countries, businesses and individuals than any secret elite cabal.
First point, I don't believe in the illuminati, that's for conspiracy theorists.
I do believe in vested interests, big business and the leverage they exercise on governments worldwide. "Deep state" is just my blanket term for all of those entities.
But carry on, you people like to dumb it down to binary analogies, because it fits your simpleton narratives.
:thumbup:
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saffer13
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by saffer13 »

Bokkom wrote: First point, I don't believe in the illuminati, that's for conspiracy theorists.
It's a thing, boet. Just ask Al Roper :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_vXDfCNONA
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DragonKhan
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by DragonKhan »

Glaston wrote:Trump is a baby.

They tried to hide the USS John S McCain from view during Trumps visit to Japan.

Sailers with hats with that ships name on, werent even allowed to watch his speech.

What a petty fecktard.

Except... he didn't

https://nypost.com/2019/05/30/acting-de ... ump-visit/
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Hong Kong
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Hong Kong »

DragonKhan wrote:
Glaston wrote:Trump is a baby.

They tried to hide the USS John S McCain from view during Trumps visit to Japan.

Sailers with hats with that ships name on, werent even allowed to watch his speech.

What a petty fecktard.

Except... he didn't

https://nypost.com/2019/05/30/acting-de ... ump-visit/
He didn’t because he, the orange shitgibbon, said he didn’t??? Right. Gotcha. Because he’s never been loose with the truth...
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houtkabouter
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by houtkabouter »

Gotta say, I believe trumpo.

That’s the thing with flip flopping, he’s telling the truth at least 50% of the time. Then he’s denying it. Then he’s telling it. Then he’s denying it...
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Turbogoat
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

Bokkom wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Bokkom wrote:It is in the Deep State's interest to carry on with whatever side issues to distract the American public's gaze from what is really going on. Trump, no-Trump, it does not fukken matter one jot. America continues to bully countries, businesses, private individuals... whoever in the name of "national security".
The military junta in the Pentagon are closer and closer to complete control.
I hope Assange gets his day in court and his council explains to the American people how your government tramples on your constitution.
It's a bold strategy to start a post by referring to the Deep State, but your larger point - that actual important matters on the World stage should really be the priority is about right.
Unfortunately, the Administration and the policy of being dicks to other countries/ businesses/ individuals are inextricably linked. Just ask the countries: Venezuela, Yemen, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba. Canada, Germany, Honduras, Guatemala, Mexico, China, Montenegro etc...
Just ask the businesses: Amazon, the NYT, Ford, Harley Davidson etc...
Just ask the private individuals: James Comey, Jeff Bezos, Soy Farmers, every woman ever etc...

Taking issue with Trump isn't merely because he is wearing a tan suit or is a secret muslim, there are very real world ramifications of his venal, corrupt, self-serving words and actions that should never be quietly accepted, even when there are a thousand other things that he does that also require the same attention.
Are you sure that's what he's saying?

I was under the impression he was laying it all at the door of the Illuminati.
Oh he was blaming the Illuminati for sure. I was just pointing out the La Cosa NosTrump were doing far more nefarious deeds against countries, businesses and individuals than any secret elite cabal.
First point, I don't believe in the illuminati, that's for conspiracy theorists.
I do believe in vested interests, big business and the leverage they exercise on governments worldwide. "Deep state" is just my blanket term for all of those entities.
But carry on, you people like to dumb it down to binary analogies, because it fits your simpleton narratives.
:thumbup:
Deep State/ Illuminati, Potayto/Potahto. Call it what you want.
I was really just giving you a fair few examples of where Trump has attacked the entities you were so concerned about defending, be they countries, businesses or private individuals. Your concern for them would be extremely shallow if you only fret about them being attacked from one direction, but chose to ignore the attacks from the "most powerful man on Earth", the "Leader of the Free World", the "Very Stable Genius who knows more about Business, Military and Marketing than anyone".
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Turbogoat
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

houtkabouter wrote:Gotta say, I believe trumpo.

That’s the thing with flip flopping, he’s telling the truth at least 50% of the time. Then he’s denying it. Then he’s telling it. Then he’s denying it...
That's the tragedy about building an entire Presidency on scurrilous lies. Now, when he may possibly have an accusation that he may be able to defend himself from simply by telling the truth, he has no credibility left to give his claims any believability.
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Turbogoat
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Turbogoat »

happyhooker wrote:Oops Donald
(Italics mine)
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Russia, Russia, Russia! That’s all you heard at the beginning of this Witch Hunt Hoax...And now Russia has disappeared because I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected. It was a crime that didn’t exist. So now the Dems and their partner, the Fake News Media,.....

:lol: :lol: :lol:
He actually wrote that? Dear God... his mental deterioration is going faster than anyone realized.
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The Optimist
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by The Optimist »

"... warships in the harbor were invited to send 60 to 70 sailors to hear Mr. Trump’s address, with the exception of the McCain. When several sailors from the McCain showed up anyway, wearing their uniforms with the ship’s insignia, they were turned away."
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Uthikoloshe
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Re: POTUS-DONALD TRUMP-and U.S. Politics catch-all

Post by Uthikoloshe »

Here is some fresh ironing... :lol:

Image

Will you be there Houts?
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