Having children or not?

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sorCrer
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by sorCrer »

In retrospect, possibly my view point is slightly skewed by living in a country which has unemployment running at > 30%.
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Sloe Moe
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Sloe Moe »

sorCrer wrote:Bit stupid to say how rewarding it is. Certainly take umbrage at people who have more than 2.
I think sorCerer has a point. I'm currently conducting an experiment to see if there is a difference in the planet's sustainability, if you have 2 or 3 kids. It is a double-blind experiment, so none of the 5 kids know which group they belong to.
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danny_fitz
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by danny_fitz »

My wife and I are both 40, we have no kids but it does get tiresome when we meet other couples for the first time who within 30 seconds ask if we have children. Upon hearing our response we often get the patronising lectures of the 'well you are leaving it a bit late' or 'you are missing out' variety. At this point I try and steer conversation away onto something else and the more self aware people pick up on this and run with it, but there are surprisingly number of people out there who have a stunning lack of self awareness who insist on regaling you on the details of their family set up and how cheeky their eldest son is and how the daughter has just passed some level 8 piano exam despite me not actually asking for any of these facts. I feel at some point I have to point out that in an ideal scenario we would already have a family but two rounds of failed IVF suggests that for us at least it is not that straight forward. There is then a fairly high chance that you will be asked 'so, I guess you will adopt then, plenty of kids out there need good homes' as if you are picking up a dog from a rescue shelter.
jolindien
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by jolindien »

I think we all should be very carreful on this kind of sensitive subject to avoid hurting people one way or another.
I don't think there is any truth in life, all is about the personal life and journey of people living it. So many different ways.
So i guess i can only genuinly speak for myself and express what i feel, far from making any point whatsoever.

I personaly have a daughter which i love, but we also lost an unborn child as some may remember here (only at 3 months+, but in our mind he/she was already our second child). Our daughter lived the full events with us and knows her unborn brother/sister is gone "in the sky" as she says. She is ok with that and has kind thoughts for him/her sometimes as she would have liked to have a sister/brother.

The whole thing has broken something (many things) in me. I've been hit quite strongly with this loss and didn't want to go throught the process again.
I'm 40, my missus is 46 soon. She wanted to try again, i didn't want. We both regret that, and will forever. I didn't want to try even though i knew i was regretting it at the same time (it is not a regret coming back later).

Younger, I never wanted kids, i thought i would never have had kids actually. I am still unsure i wanted kids, or not.

I met my missus at 30 when she was 36... so all was already very late and and i didn't want kids.
We were both not settled at that time, and we still aren't at all today. No good, steady job in sight. Living the day as it comes.

Just after having met the missus at 30 i got a cancer some weeks into the relationship.
Spent a 1 year+ treating it.
Now i'm still here, but the insurances are treating me like a dead man walking and it is impossible to have a decent private insurance (to buy a home for instance, for work etc, everything...).

At 36 the missus was still in her studies during all this as she decided to go back to the uni when she was 30 (before we met) while doing small day-jobs.

Things became more complicated when she was 38 and studies not finished, plus me 32 only 2 years after cancer treatment, and the both of us only 2 years in a complicated relation (we are very very different, diametrically different).
She wanted a kid, so i said ok thinking nature would prevent us from having one at that age. It worked immediatly. And all went well that time.
So we finally met our daughter when i was almost 33 and the missus almost 39, when nothing was settled, missus still in the Uni.

Our daughter is a joy and my worst fear would be to lose her (i now think this is the worst thing on earth : losing a kid, having a kid ill etc).
I will always regret to have lost the second child and not to have a brother/sister for my daughter.
We are not settled at all and do not know what the future will be as i think we will never settle as the things are going.
I'm still dead meat when "they" see my medical past.
Life is a bitch but not always.

No truth in all this, some things seem right some day, but proved wrong the next one, and right again later.
I can't say what i should have done as i have no idea at all, i just can tell about what i feel : happy a lot with my daughter but fearing to lose her and to die leaving them, ever regretting the lost child and brother/sister to my daughter + a lot of pain deep in the heart while telling about it now and thinking of her/him. No idea what the future will be : personal, health, job, home, whatever... a big big "?"

I just a man with mostly doubts living the day-life... no-certitude-at-all.

phewww... when i read the preview of my post i really wonder how i would have made any correct "decision" out of that messy life.
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assfly
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by assfly »

sorCrer wrote:In retrospect, possibly my view point is slightly skewed by living in a country which has unemployment running at > 30%.
I king of get what you're saying. But without trying to sound like a chapter from Plato's Republic, chances are that your children will go to a good school, possibly uni, get good jobs and make a valuable contribution to society. A family that lives in utter poverty should probably assess their circumstances as to whether another mouth to feed is a good idea.
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Margin_Walker
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Margin_Walker »

danny_fitz wrote:My wife and I are both 40, we have no kids but it does get tiresome when we meet other couples for the first time who within 30 seconds ask if we have children. Upon hearing our response we often get the patronising lectures of the 'well you are leaving it a bit late' or 'you are missing out' variety. At this point I try and steer conversation away onto something else and the more self aware people pick up on this and run with it, but there are surprisingly number of people out there who have a stunning lack of self awareness who insist on regaling you on the details of their family set up and how cheeky their eldest son is and how the daughter has just passed some level 8 piano exam despite me not actually asking for any of these facts. I feel at some point I have to point out that in an ideal scenario we would already have a family but two rounds of failed IVF suggests that for us at least it is not that straight forward. There is then a fairly high chance that you will be asked 'so, I guess you will adopt then, plenty of kids out there need good homes' as if you are picking up a dog from a rescue shelter.
Sounds very familiar. Never ceased to be amazed by the number of people who have not tact or are unable to pick up on cues.

Got married just before my 31st birthday and were both very keen to start a family. Soon discovered that things in life aren't always as easy as you imagine they will be. There followed multiple rounds of failed rounds of IUI and one failed round of IVF over the next three and a half years including one miscarriage. The more time that passed the more we'd get asked, 'are you not getting broody at all?', 'do you not fancy having kids yourself one day?' etc. It gets harder to brush these off the longer it went on, especially for my wife.

Our first is thankfully due at the end of August now, but the whole thing has taught me a valuable lesson about not making assumptions/judgements about other people's situations.
aitch@wasps
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by aitch@wasps »

Have never wanted children. Anyone who asks why gets asked why they chose to wear that particular shirt/jumper/haircut. My life, my choice.
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Redsfan
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Redsfan »

jolindien wrote:I think we all should be very carreful on this kind of sensitive subject to avoid hurting people one way or another.
I don't think there is any truth in life, all is about the personal life and journey of people living it. So many different ways.
So i guess i can only genuinly speak for myself and express what i feel, far from making any point whatsoever.

I personaly have a daughter which i love, but we also lost an unborn child as some may remember here (only at 3 months+, but in our mind he/she was already our second child). Our daughter lived the full events with us and knows her unborn brother/sister is gone "in the sky" as she says. She is ok with that and has kind thoughts for him/her sometimes as she would have liked to have a sister/brother.

The whole thing has broken something (many things) in me. I've been hit quite strongly with this loss and didn't want to go throught the process again.
I'm 40, my missus is 46 soon. She wanted to try again, i didn't want. We both regret that, and will forever. I didn't want to try even though i knew i was regretting it at the same time (it is not a regret coming back later).

Younger, I never wanted kids, i thought i would never have had kids actually. I am still unsure i wanted kids, or not.

I met my missus at 30 when she was 36... so all was already very late and and i didn't want kids.
We were both not settled at that time, and we still aren't at all today. No good, steady job in sight. Living the day as it comes.

Just after having met the missus at 30 i got a cancer some weeks into the relationship.
Spent a 1 year+ treating it.
Now i'm still here, but the insurances are treating me like a dead man walking and it is impossible to have a decent private insurance (to buy a home for instance, for work etc, everything...).

At 36 the missus was still in her studies during all this as she decided to go back to the uni when she was 30 (before we met) while doing small day-jobs.

Things became more complicated when she was 38 and studies not finished, plus me 32 only 2 years after cancer treatment, and the both of us only 2 years in a complicated relation (we are very very different, diametrically different).
She wanted a kid, so i said ok thinking nature would prevent us from having one at that age. It worked immediatly. And all went well that time.
So we finally met our daughter when i was almost 33 and the missus almost 39, when nothing was settled, missus still in the Uni.

Our daughter is a joy and my worst fear would be to lose her (i now think this is the worst thing on earth : losing a kid, having a kid ill etc).
I will always regret to have lost the second child and not to have a brother/sister for my daughter.
We are not settled at all and do not know what the future will be as i think we will never settle as the things are going.
I'm still dead meat when "they" see my medical past.
Life is a bitch but not always.

No truth in all this, some things seem right some day, but proved wrong the next one, and right again later.
I can't say what i should have done as i have no idea at all, i just can tell about what i feel : happy a lot with my daughter but fearing to lose her and to die leaving them, ever regretting the lost child and brother/sister to my daughter + a lot of pain deep in the heart while telling about it now and thinking of her/him. No idea what the future will be : personal, health, job, home, whatever... a big big "?"

I just a man with mostly doubts living the day-life... no-certitude-at-all.

phewww... when i read the preview of my post i really wonder how i would have made any correct "decision" out of that messy life.
Very sobering reading, jolindien. :((
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Kiwias
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Kiwias »

aitch@wasps wrote:Have never wanted children. Anyone who asks why gets asked why they chose to wear that particular shirt/jumper/haircut. My life, my choice.
My wife usually says "Can't stand the noisy, dirty, little buggers"
bimboman
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by bimboman »

Margin_Walker wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:My wife and I are both 40, we have no kids but it does get tiresome when we meet other couples for the first time who within 30 seconds ask if we have children. Upon hearing our response we often get the patronising lectures of the 'well you are leaving it a bit late' or 'you are missing out' variety. At this point I try and steer conversation away onto something else and the more self aware people pick up on this and run with it, but there are surprisingly number of people out there who have a stunning lack of self awareness who insist on regaling you on the details of their family set up and how cheeky their eldest son is and how the daughter has just passed some level 8 piano exam despite me not actually asking for any of these facts. I feel at some point I have to point out that in an ideal scenario we would already have a family but two rounds of failed IVF suggests that for us at least it is not that straight forward. There is then a fairly high chance that you will be asked 'so, I guess you will adopt then, plenty of kids out there need good homes' as if you are picking up a dog from a rescue shelter.
Sounds very familiar. Never ceased to be amazed by the number of people who have not tact or are unable to pick up on cues.

Got married just before my 31st birthday and were both very keen to start a family. Soon discovered that things in life aren't always as easy as you imagine they will be. There followed multiple rounds of failed rounds of IUI and one failed round of IVF over the next three and a half years including one miscarriage. The more time that passed the more we'd get asked, 'are you not getting broody at all?', 'do you not fancy having kids yourself one day?' etc. It gets harder to brush these off the longer it went on, especially for my wife.

Our first is thankfully due at the end of August now, but the whole thing has taught me a valuable lesson about not making assumptions/judgements about other people's situations.

Not only sensitivity but normality, the last thing I want to talk about is my children or other, love meeting min kid couples so we can,listens to their holidays, dinners out etc and whist fully sigh.
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Bullettyme
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Bullettyme »

I'd definitely have kids, at the moment I'm not anywhere really near it, but I'd certainly be happy to have kids later in life.
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Torquemada 1420
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Re: Having children or not?

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Steamin Beamin
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Steamin Beamin »

Don't have any and don't think I'll ever want any. I've recently separated from my girlfriend of 7 years because of this.
Rumham
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Rumham »

Margin_Walker wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:My wife and I are both 40, we have no kids but it does get tiresome when we meet other couples for the first time who within 30 seconds ask if we have children. Upon hearing our response we often get the patronising lectures of the 'well you are leaving it a bit late' or 'you are missing out' variety. At this point I try and steer conversation away onto something else and the more self aware people pick up on this and run with it, but there are surprisingly number of people out there who have a stunning lack of self awareness who insist on regaling you on the details of their family set up and how cheeky their eldest son is and how the daughter has just passed some level 8 piano exam despite me not actually asking for any of these facts. I feel at some point I have to point out that in an ideal scenario we would already have a family but two rounds of failed IVF suggests that for us at least it is not that straight forward. There is then a fairly high chance that you will be asked 'so, I guess you will adopt then, plenty of kids out there need good homes' as if you are picking up a dog from a rescue shelter.
Sounds very familiar. Never ceased to be amazed by the number of people who have not tact or are unable to pick up on cues.

Got married just before my 31st birthday and were both very keen to start a family. Soon discovered that things in life aren't always as easy as you imagine they will be. There followed multiple rounds of failed rounds of IUI and one failed round of IVF over the next three and a half years including one miscarriage. The more time that passed the more we'd get asked, 'are you not getting broody at all?', 'do you not fancy having kids yourself one day?' etc. It gets harder to brush these off the longer it went on, especially for my wife.

Our first is thankfully due at the end of August now, but the whole thing has taught me a valuable lesson about not making assumptions/judgements about other people's situations.
For many people it is easy though, often an accident after a few too many. The idea that getting pregnant is actually no walk in the park for most people is alien to them and these are usually the ones with zero self awareness. Anybody who has gone through difficulties conceiving and come out on the other side would know not to ask the question.

We had lots of issues also with 5 or 6 chemical pregnancies in just under a year and doctors had no real answers which is not very inspiring. It is incredibly stressful to deal with, particularly for the woman and the last thing you need to hear from people if them sticking their unwanted nose in your private affairs.
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Tehui
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Tehui »

danny_fitz wrote:My wife and I are both 40, we have no kids but it does get tiresome when we meet other couples for the first time who within 30 seconds ask if we have children. Upon hearing our response we often get the patronising lectures of the 'well you are leaving it a bit late' or 'you are missing out' variety. At this point I try and steer conversation away onto something else and the more self aware people pick up on this and run with it, but there are surprisingly number of people out there who have a stunning lack of self awareness who insist on regaling you on the details of their family set up and how cheeky their eldest son is and how the daughter has just passed some level 8 piano exam despite me not actually asking for any of these facts. I feel at some point I have to point out that in an ideal scenario we would already have a family but two rounds of failed IVF suggests that for us at least it is not that straight forward. There is then a fairly high chance that you will be asked 'so, I guess you will adopt then, plenty of kids out there need good homes' as if you are picking up a dog from a rescue shelter.
There are two subjects that I find incredibly boring to listen to when I'm socialising with people. The first is children, and the second is real estate or housing.
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Torquemada 1420
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

danny_fitz wrote:My wife and I are both 40, we have no kids but it does get tiresome when we meet other couples for the first time who within 30 seconds ask if we have children. Upon hearing our response we often get the patronising lectures of the 'well you are leaving it a bit late' or 'you are missing out' variety. At this point I try and steer conversation away onto something else and the more self aware people pick up on this and run with it, but there are surprisingly number of people out there who have a stunning lack of self awareness who insist on regaling you on the details of their family set up and how cheeky their eldest son is and how the daughter has just passed some level 8 piano exam despite me not actually asking for any of these facts. I feel at some point I have to point out that in an ideal scenario we would already have a family but two rounds of failed IVF suggests that for us at least it is not that straight forward. There is then a fairly high chance that you will be asked 'so, I guess you will adopt then, plenty of kids out there need good homes' as if you are picking up a dog from a rescue shelter.
Probably can't find it but read some research on this an age back. Broadly it highlighted that couples without children tended to have better social lives and, in particular, (this was the main subject of the doc) were less likely to be lonely in retirement. The general gist being that outside Afro-Carribeans and Asians (whose family units are very different), people with kids are largely abandoned by them these days whereas those without kids maintain a supportive, social circle for life.

Anyway, the easiest way to deal with parent bores is to tell them your wife is infertile and you are seeking a surrogate. Watch how fast they exit the conversation then. If they don't, well then it's your call. :o
arbb9101
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by arbb9101 »

Kiwias wrote:
aitch@wasps wrote:Have never wanted children. Anyone who asks why gets asked why they chose to wear that particular shirt/jumper/haircut. My life, my choice.
My wife usually says "Can't stand the noisy, dirty, little buggers"
Your wife is a wise woman. I'm 53, never had kids, never wanted kids, simply because I've never been able to tolerate other people's brats for any length of time. I'm always told "Ah, but it's different when they're yours". Perhaps, but why risk it?
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Last Line
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Last Line »

If you are selfish or self indulgent, don't have any. It's a life changer.

If you have to ask the question, don't have any either!
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sewa
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by sewa »

Having kids is great, we had them young so the two girls are 11 and 14 now. In a few years they will be off in college and then moving out at which point my wife is going to have a complete and utter freak attack, she has built her entire life around them. Even when they are away with relatives for a few nights she gets miserable.
aitch@wasps
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by aitch@wasps »

Kiwias wrote:
aitch@wasps wrote:Have never wanted children. Anyone who asks why gets asked why they chose to wear that particular shirt/jumper/haircut. My life, my choice.
My wife usually says "Can't stand the noisy, dirty, little buggers"
Used to respond similarly but couldn't be arsed with the 'Oh, it's different when they're yours!' shit, frankly.
bimboman
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by bimboman »

aitch@wasps wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
aitch@wasps wrote:Have never wanted children. Anyone who asks why gets asked why they chose to wear that particular shirt/jumper/haircut. My life, my choice.
My wife usually says "Can't stand the noisy, dirty, little buggers"
Used to respond similarly but couldn't be arsed with the 'Oh, it's different when they're yours!' shit, frankly.

Parents can recognise this distain, it's one of the few times I don't mind how badly behaved number two is when he's annoying someone.
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Torquemada 1420
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

sewa wrote:Having kids is great, we had them young so the two girls are 11 and 14 now. In a few years they will be off in college and then moving out at which point my wife is going to have a complete and utter freak attack, she has built her entire life around them. Even when they are away with relatives for a few nights she gets miserable.
The trouble with recommendations like these is they are skewed by a lack of impartiality. It's like your neighbour buying a new hi-fi: he's not going to tell you it's sh*t, a total waste of money and has ruined his life.
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sewa
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by sewa »

Torquemada 1420 wrote:
sewa wrote:Having kids is great, we had them young so the two girls are 11 and 14 now. In a few years they will be off in college and then moving out at which point my wife is going to have a complete and utter freak attack, she has built her entire life around them. Even when they are away with relatives for a few nights she gets miserable.
The trouble with recommendations like these is they are skewed by a lack of impartiality. It's like your neighbour buying a new hi-fi: he's not going to tell you it's sh*t, a total waste of money and has ruined his life.
Oh yeah, its a personal opinion. I've a mate who got taken by a Russian scammer, went for the whole kit and kaboodle, bought the house, bought her a car, had the kid and then a week later she kicked him out of his house. He probably regrets it but won't admit it
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slick
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by slick »

Our first arrives in 6 weeks.

Never really had a desire for them until about 3 years ago, I'm 42 wife a bit younger, honestly can't wait now. Think i'd like another fairly quickly then call it a day.
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Kiwias
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Kiwias »

arbb9101 wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
aitch@wasps wrote:Have never wanted children. Anyone who asks why gets asked why they chose to wear that particular shirt/jumper/haircut. My life, my choice.
My wife usually says "Can't stand the noisy, dirty, little buggers"
Your wife is a wise woman. I'm 53, never had kids, never wanted kids, simply because I've never been able to tolerate other people's brats for any length of time. I'm always told "Ah, but it's different when they're yours". Perhaps, but why risk it?
She gets that and just says, "Nah, mine would be even worse than yours"
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Bullettyme
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Bullettyme »

sewa wrote:Having kids is great, we had them young so the two girls are 11 and 14 now. In a few years they will be off in college and then moving out at which point my wife is going to have a complete and utter freak attack, she has built her entire life around them. Even when they are away with relatives for a few nights she gets miserable.
Sounds like my mom to an extent. She had 5 of us, now we're all growing up or out of the house she got a dog and previously there was a cat. And I realise why my dad is now fat and bald.
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Turbogoat
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Turbogoat »

Never even thought about having kids myself. I didn't grow up in a typical, traditional household at all, so never really got into the whole 2.4 kids, white picket fence type of aspirations.
My girlfriend of all of two months brought up the possibility kids the other day... that's serious bunny boiler material and just cause to head for the hills. She's Irish/Venezuelan, which puts her in Shiite Catholic territory, so it's probably par for the course. So I haven't run for the hills just yet, and for the first time in my life even remotely considering the possibility of having kids.

Nah, can't see it happening.
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Steamin Beamin
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Steamin Beamin »

Turbogoat wrote:Never even thought about having kids myself. I didn't grow up in a typical, traditional household at all, so never really got into the whole 2.4 kids, white picket fence type of aspirations.
My girlfriend of all of two months brought up the possibility kids the other day... that's serious bunny boiler material and just cause to head for the hills. She's Irish/Venezuelan, which puts her in Shiite Catholic territory, so it's probably par for the course. So I haven't run for the hills just yet, and for the first time in my life even remotely considering the possibility of having kids.

Nah, can't see it happening.
2 Months!!! Get the fudge out while you can.
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by eugenefraxby »

On the subject of IVF, my mate and his wife were struggling to conceive and went through the IVF process, I’m pleased to say their daughter is now 14.
However, when the day arrived for him to do ‘his bit’ he went along as requested to Guy’s Hospital at lunchtime and went to the appropriate department and as no-one was at the desk he took a seat, if he was honest a little embarrassed about the whole thing. Sat there for 20 minutes still no-one at the desk so he shouted a few times, still nothing.
Eventually he went round the desk and knocked on the door and stuck his head in, and there were 4 or 5 doctors and nurses watching the TV.
“Excuse me! I’ve been out there almost half an hour with no attention. This isn’t good enough.”
“I’m so sorry” said the nearest Nurse, what’s your name?”
He gave his name, and she said, you’ll have to forgive us but wow. In the circumstances I’m sure you’ll understand we can’t leave the TV!”
“Why? He said.
“Aren’t you watching, there’ve been two jets fly into the World Trade Towers and they’ve collapsed with thousands dead, this could possibly be the start of a world war. Anyway, here’s your jar, could you go to the room across there, lock the door, and direct your sperm into it and return it please? Thanks”.

He subsequently has a regrettable answer to the occasional question “what were you doing when 9/11 happened.”
Airgead
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Airgead »

It is proven in behavioral science that parents mindsets are irrevocably changed after having children. It is based on the primal instinct for gene survival that parents think this way, releasing chemicals in the brain. It is no different to animals. Humans are engineered this way.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Ali's Choice »

Airgead wrote:It is proven in behavioral science that parents mindsets are irrevocably changed after having children. It is based on the primal instinct for gene survival that parents think this way, releasing chemicals in the brain. It is no different to animals. Humans are engineered this way.
But the childless posters on this forum have assured us that they wouldn't be any different whatsoever if they had kids. Apparently we're being arrogant and condescending for even suggesting that people become less self-centered once they have children to raise. In saying that, they're allowed to mock us for losing our freedom, financial security and apparently our sex lives.
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Kiwias
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Kiwias »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Airgead wrote:It is proven in behavioral science that parents mindsets are irrevocably changed after having children. It is based on the primal instinct for gene survival that parents think this way, releasing chemicals in the brain. It is no different to animals. Humans are engineered this way.
But the childless posters on this forum have assured us that they wouldn't be any different whatsoever if they had kids. Apparently we're being arrogant and condescending for even suggesting that people become less self-centered once they have children to raise. In saying that, they're allowed to mock us for losing our freedom, financial security and apparently our sex lives.
You are too young for the menopause, surely?
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mr bungle
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by mr bungle »

danny_fitz wrote:My wife and I are both 40, we have no kids but it does get tiresome when we meet other couples for the first time who within 30 seconds ask if we have children. Upon hearing our response we often get the patronising lectures of the 'well you are leaving it a bit late' or 'you are missing out' variety. At this point I try and steer conversation away onto something else and the more self aware people pick up on this and run with it, but there are surprisingly number of people out there who have a stunning lack of self awareness who insist on regaling you on the details of their family set up and how cheeky their eldest son is and how the daughter has just passed some level 8 piano exam despite me not actually asking for any of these facts. I feel at some point I have to point out that in an ideal scenario we would already have a family but two rounds of failed IVF suggests that for us at least it is not that straight forward. There is then a fairly high chance that you will be asked 'so, I guess you will adopt then, plenty of kids out there need good homes' as if you are picking up a dog from a rescue shelter.
The first question is just making small talk or finding some common ground. Their comments from then on are way out of line. I know enough people who are trying hard and having no luck to not ever go there. I also have friends who made the decision to never have kids. I've never asked them personally, not my place.

I come from a large family and always loved caring for kids/cousins but I went through a stage when my oldest brother started a family and realising just how much f**king work they are. My last grandparent died and I woke up to just how short a time we have. Not married but my partner (sorry, doesn't sit perfectly but I'm not 13 anymore) of 10 years now have a 3 year old boy. Trying and rewarding all in one. The connection you have with your parents grows even stronger when there's a grandchild in the mix.

Only thing I will say for my early 40s friends with no kids. When they're not living in a large city with a good number of people at a similar stage they end up a little isolated and hanging out with oldies near retirement on f**king Rotary jaunts. fudge that. Also have some older friends of my parents who couldn't have kids and they look like lonely old boozers at times. There's a vibrancy to life when the older generations are surrounded by grandkids and beyond in their twilight years.

I see posters on here like Mat the Ex Pat who seem to live interesting and fulfilled lives. Close bonds with relatives kids and dining out every second f**king night. And no f**king way is his girly friend as old as 47 :thumbup:
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Ali's Choice »

Kiwias wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Airgead wrote:It is proven in behavioral science that parents mindsets are irrevocably changed after having children. It is based on the primal instinct for gene survival that parents think this way, releasing chemicals in the brain. It is no different to animals. Humans are engineered this way.
But the childless posters on this forum have assured us that they wouldn't be any different whatsoever if they had kids. Apparently we're being arrogant and condescending for even suggesting that people become less self-centered once they have children to raise. In saying that, they're allowed to mock us for losing our freedom, financial security and apparently our sex lives.
You are too young for the menopause, surely?
You're straddling both sides of this discussion quite nicely.
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Kiwias
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Kiwias »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Airgead wrote:It is proven in behavioral science that parents mindsets are irrevocably changed after having children. It is based on the primal instinct for gene survival that parents think this way, releasing chemicals in the brain. It is no different to animals. Humans are engineered this way.
But the childless posters on this forum have assured us that they wouldn't be any different whatsoever if they had kids. Apparently we're being arrogant and condescending for even suggesting that people become less self-centered once they have children to raise. In saying that, they're allowed to mock us for losing our freedom, financial security and apparently our sex lives.
You are too young for the menopause, surely?
You're straddling both sides of this discussion quite nicely.
Yes, because I have experienced both types of marriages. But your tone is getting hysterical.
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Hong Kong
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Hong Kong »

i have two children and couldn't imagine my marriage without kids. I have very close friends who do not have kids and I couldn't imagine their marriage with them. I neither care nor comment on those who make their own choices.
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Kiwias
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Kiwias »

Hong Kong wrote:i have two children and couldn't imagine my marriage without kids. I have very close friends who do not have kids and I couldn't imagine their marriage with them. I neither care nor comment on those who make their own choices.
Well, that has killed the thread pretty effectively.
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waguser
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by waguser »

Turbogoat wrote:Never even thought about having kids myself. I didn't grow up in a typical, traditional household at all, so never really got into the whole 2.4 kids, white picket fence type of aspirations.
My girlfriend of all of two months brought up the possibility kids the other day... that's serious bunny boiler material and just cause to head for the hills. She's Irish/Venezuelan, which puts her in Shiite Catholic territory, so it's probably par for the course. So I haven't run for the hills just yet, and for the first time in my life even remotely considering the possibility of having kids.

Nah, can't see it happening.
sounds like just the girl to put manners on you
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The Sun God
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by The Sun God »

sorCrer wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
sorCrer wrote:Bit stupid to say how rewarding it is. Certainly take umbrage at people who have more than 2.
WTF?
The planet as is simply cannot sustain it's existing population. Coupled with the fact that generally the less educated, poorer and less intelligent people tend to have larger families in modern times doesn't help.
Are you actually for real ?
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Olvar
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Re: Having children or not?

Post by Olvar »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Airgead wrote:It is proven in behavioral science that parents mindsets are irrevocably changed after having children. It is based on the primal instinct for gene survival that parents think this way, releasing chemicals in the brain. It is no different to animals. Humans are engineered this way.
But the childless posters on this forum have assured us that they wouldn't be any different whatsoever if they had kids. Apparently we're being arrogant and condescending for even suggesting that people become less self-centered once they have children to raise. In saying that, they're allowed to mock us for losing our freedom, financial security and apparently our sex lives.
No, what people have tried to patiently and gently point out to you is that just because your life has been made immeasurably better by having children, it doesn't automatically follow that my life would be made immeasurably better. This is down to me not being you, and my life not being your life.

I haven't seen a single childless person on this thread say that a happy parent's life would be better without children, only that their own is. That traffic generally only runs in the other direction, as shown on this thread, and it comes across as a little condescending as it suggests that you know what I want from my life better than I do. You really don't. I'm glad you're enjoying having kids, but it's not for me. I know that it's not for me with far greater certainty than you know I would f**king love it and find it the best thing ever.
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