The true face of brexit supporters ?

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Anonymous 1
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:Several BME friends of mine report being the target of much more open and hostile abuse in public over the last couple of days than they recall encountering before the vote
I wouldn't call you a lying fucktard without proof
Last edited by Anonymous 1 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ZappaMan
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by ZappaMan »

c69 wrote:No Zappa I am not a modern day Jesus just a prophet.
I may have phrased the sentence poorly but I don't think it merited being called a bigoted prick.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Lenny »

Chuckles1188 wrote:Several BME friends of mine report being the target of much more open and hostile abuse in public over the last couple of days than they recall encountering before the vote (though I look forward to having it explained to me that they're imagining it or lying). It seems pretty facile, if not outright denialist, to suggest that this result won't have emboldened racists. Hopefully it's a brief aberration
I think overt xenophobia/racism from unexpected sources might become a bit more common as the Brexit debate has given voice to it in an unprecedented way. Spoke to my my Manchester based sister in law today, and she was very upset about an incident involving her best friend today. Her friend, an Irish woman, was having coffee with an acquaintance she's known for 15 years when Brexit came up, and she expressed her disappointment at the result, especially because of the potential impact on young people, and was told that if she didn't like it then she should go back to where she came from (those were the actual words used). She and her husband have lived in the UK for 50 years when he moved to take up a position as a hospital consultant, and they're both highy educated, and are fairly wealthy, as is her acquaintance.

While they have experienced very occasional anti Irish bigotry in the past this is the first time that its happened so close to home, and they are very concerned this is only the beginning. Tbh I think a can of worms has been opened and that we'll see more and more violent expressions of racism as the social upheaval the referendum has brought about escalates.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by C69 »

ZappaMan wrote:
c69 wrote:No Zappa I am not a modern day Jesus just a prophet.
I may have phrased the sentence poorly but I don't think it merited being called a bigoted prick.
Perhaps prick was a bit too sexualised a word to use.
The sentiments expressed were certainly bigoted imho.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by ZappaMan »

c69 wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:
c69 wrote:No Zappa I am not a modern day Jesus just a prophet.
I may have phrased the sentence poorly but I don't think it merited being called a bigoted prick.
Perhaps prick was a bit too sexualised a word to use.
The sentiments expressed were certainly bigoted imho.
You should back down and apologise but, hey ho, that's your call.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by SamShark »

Lenny wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Several BME friends of mine report being the target of much more open and hostile abuse in public over the last couple of days than they recall encountering before the vote (though I look forward to having it explained to me that they're imagining it or lying). It seems pretty facile, if not outright denialist, to suggest that this result won't have emboldened racists. Hopefully it's a brief aberration
I think overt xenophobia/racism from unexpected sources might become a bit more common as the Brexit debate has given voice to it in an unprecedented way. Spoke to my my Manchester based sister in law today, and she was very upset about an incident involving her best friend today. Her friend, an Irish woman, was having coffee with an acquaintance she's known for 15 years when Brexit came up, and she expressed her disappointment at the result, especially because of the potential impact on young people, and was told that if she didn't like it then she should go back to where she came from (those were the actual words used). She and her husband have lived in the UK for 50 years when he moved to take up a position as a hospital consultant, and they're both highy educated, and are fairly wealthy, as is her acquaintance.

While they have experienced very occasional anti Irish bigotry in the past this is the first time that its happened so close to home, and they are very concerned this is only the beginning. Tbh I think a can of worms has been opened and that we'll see more and more violent expressions of racism as the social upheaval the referendum has brought about escalates.
I hope this isn't the case, though as has been said, supposedly responsible politicians have been telling people their lives are being ruined by immigrants.

I think you'll find tensions are high everywhere though. I try to keep my own intolerance in check but a couple of friends have told me they are voting out and I genuinely think less of them and when someone told me the other day "We wont leave so I thought I may as well vote out" I felt like telling him to fudge off.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by C69 »

ZappaMan wrote:
c69 wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:
c69 wrote:No Zappa I am not a modern day Jesus just a prophet.
I may have phrased the sentence poorly but I don't think it merited being called a bigoted prick.
Perhaps prick was a bit too sexualised a word to use.
The sentiments expressed were certainly bigoted imho.
You should back down and apologise but, hey ho, that's your call.
Given that you are a mod Sir, I apologise.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Sefton »

ZappaMan wrote:
c69 wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:
c69 wrote:No Zappa I am not a modern day Jesus just a prophet.
I may have phrased the sentence poorly but I don't think it merited being called a bigoted prick.
Perhaps prick was a bit too sexualised a word to use.
The sentiments expressed were certainly bigoted imho.
You should back down and apologise but, hey ho, that's your call.
I fear C69 sees reference to the less intelligent as a personal affront.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by ZappaMan »

c69 wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:
c69 wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:
c69 wrote:No Zappa I am not a modern day Jesus just a prophet.
I may have phrased the sentence poorly but I don't think it merited being called a bigoted prick.
Perhaps prick was a bit too sexualised a word to use.
The sentiments expressed were certainly bigoted imho.
You should back down and apologise but, hey ho, that's your call.
Given that you are a mod Sir, I apologise.
I'll take it :lol: :thumbup:
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by C69 »

Sefton wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:
c69 wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:
c69 wrote:No Zappa I am not a modern day Jesus just a prophet.
I may have phrased the sentence poorly but I don't think it merited being called a bigoted prick.
Perhaps prick was a bit too sexualised a word to use.
The sentiments expressed were certainly bigoted imho.
You should back down and apologise but, hey ho, that's your call.
I fear C69 sees reference to the less intelligent as a personal affront.
Indeed, I thought it was a dig at the whole of Merseyside. Your honour is safe. But not your hubcaps.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Several BME friends of mine report being the target of much more open and hostile abuse in public over the last couple of days than they recall encountering before the vote
I wouldn't call you a lying fucktard without proof
What does BME stand for?
He wasn't talking about people who do body mods so fuck off
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by SamShark »

One of the reasons I didn't vote was I didn't want to get offside with either my old mate The Guardian Reader or the lads down the EDL club.

As it turns out The Guardian Reader has said don't call him until August he's so upset.
Someone I've known since childhood - the seemingly decent and not thick parent of a school friend - said on Facebook "I'm voting leave as I'm sick of all the foreign aid being sent to Africa and ending up in the hands of corrupt Governments"

???????
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by 0ber0n »

Off.Topic.

In the meantime, in Spain, another round of elections is likely to give no answers...
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by ZappaMan »

SamShark wrote:
One of the reasons I didn't vote was I didn't want to get offside with either my old mate The Guardian Reader or the lads down the EDL club.

As it turns out The Guardian Reader has said don't call him until August he's so upset.
Someone I've known since childhood - the seemingly decent and not thick parent of a school friend - said on Facebook "I'm voting leave as I'm sick of all the foreign aid being sent to Africa and ending up in the hands of corrupt Governments"

???????
:lol:
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by C69 »

SamShark wrote:
One of the reasons I didn't vote was I didn't want to get offside with either my old mate The Guardian Reader or the lads down the EDL club.

As it turns out The Guardian Reader has said don't call him until August he's so upset.
Someone I've known since childhood - the seemingly decent and not thick parent of a school friend - said on Facebook "I'm voting leave as I'm sick of all the foreign aid being sent to Africa and ending up in the hands of corrupt Governments"

???????
Bloody Africans staying in their Countries spending the aid we send them.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Sneaker are you genuinely asking what BME stands for or on one of your little wind-ups?
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Emily »

If you're being serious..... BME = black and minority ethnic....
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by C69 »

Emily wrote:If you're being serious..... BME = black and minority ethnic....
As only one of a few white male Welsh workers in a female dominated workplace I would be counted as a minority.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Several BME friends of mine report being the target of much more open and hostile abuse in public over the last couple of days than they recall encountering before the vote
I wouldn't call you a lying fucktard without proof
What does BME stand for?
He wasn't talking about people who do body mods so fuck off
Calm down you remaining cnt. We need to lower the mood of tension and division not increase it.
I voted leave :x
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Conservative Eddie »

SamShark wrote:
Conservative Eddie wrote:Anecdotally at least, it appears that this campaign, with its strong focus on immigration and the popularity of Trump in the States has emboldened a lot of people with, well... crude opinions.

It certainly appears to be the case online - I'm reading more comments from a new archetype of obnoxiousness that encompasses a little bit of misogyny, casual racism, homophobia and a desire for a "strong man" leader. And free speech to this new breed means the right to say these things free from any criticism whatsoever.

Rabble rousing and demagoguery do have consequences.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36633605

Hmm, you know one thing I've never particularly liked is the way that the term "populism" is used - almost exclusively in the pejorative. To me at least, it's the quintessential expression of elitism, to talk about the horrors of populism. Much of what is popular, and particulaly popular grievances, are not entirely baseless. Misguided in identifiying the source of such grievance, but not without legitimacy. Working class people in England and throughout much of Europe - and the US - have a right to be angry. They have legitimate grievances. The cause of those grievances have been misidentified however. It ain't immigrants. Immigrants don't write policy.

Maybe this will click when all that money that went towards Britain's net EU contribution, doesn't get allocated back to some regeneration project in Cornwall or some NHS Trust in Yorkshire, but is used to offset the next capital-gains-tax cut.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by C69 »

Seneca of the Night wrote:Calm down you remaining cnt. We need to lower the mood of tension and division not increase it.
I voted leave :x[/quote]

Racist.[/quote]
You can't call him racist.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by SamShark »

Conservative Eddie wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Conservative Eddie wrote:Anecdotally at least, it appears that this campaign, with its strong focus on immigration and the popularity of Trump in the States has emboldened a lot of people with, well... crude opinions.

It certainly appears to be the case online - I'm reading more comments from a new archetype of obnoxiousness that encompasses a little bit of misogyny, casual racism, homophobia and a desire for a "strong man" leader. And free speech to this new breed means the right to say these things free from any criticism whatsoever.

Rabble rousing and demagoguery do have consequences.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36633605

Hmm, you know one thing I've never particularly liked is the way that the term "populism" is used - almost exclusively in the pejorative. To me at least, it's the quintessential expression of elitism, to talk about the horrors of populism. Much of what is popular, and particulaly popular grievances, are not entirely baseless. Misguided in identifiying the source of such grievance, but not without legitimacy. Working class people in England and throughout much of Europe - and the US - have a right to be angry. They have legitimate grievances. The cause of those grievances have been misidentified however. It ain't immigrants. Immigrants don't write policy.

Maybe this will click when all that money that went towards Britain's net EU contribution, doesn't get allocated back to some regeneration project in Cornwall or some NHS Trust in Yorkshire, but is used to offset the next capital-gains-tax cut.
Corbyn and Sanders and the other side of populism - so doesnt have to be pejorative or right wing, although many would say the visions of both Trump/Farage and Corbyn/Sanders appeal to some, but are too "extreme" to ever be implemented.

This idea of people being "angry" is troubling me though. People being "angry" out there is increasingly being used as a reason for all sorts of stuff, by journalists, commentators, politicians and the angry ones themselves.

Everyone needs a bogey man sadly - immigrants, bankers, skivers, whatever.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Insane_Homer »

Shocking amount of ignorance from these racists who think Asian is part of the EU...
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:Calm down you remaining cnt. We need to lower the mood of tension and division not increase it.
I voted leave :x
Racist.
Someone had to make a stand against all those white Europeans pitching up in London and taking the jobs of black Londoners.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by w0rdtothe3rd »

SamShark wrote:
Lenny wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Several BME friends of mine report being the target of much more open and hostile abuse in public over the last couple of days than they recall encountering before the vote (though I look forward to having it explained to me that they're imagining it or lying). It seems pretty facile, if not outright denialist, to suggest that this result won't have emboldened racists. Hopefully it's a brief aberration
I think overt xenophobia/racism from unexpected sources might become a bit more common as the Brexit debate has given voice to it in an unprecedented way. Spoke to my my Manchester based sister in law today, and she was very upset about an incident involving her best friend today. Her friend, an Irish woman, was having coffee with an acquaintance she's known for 15 years when Brexit came up, and she expressed her disappointment at the result, especially because of the potential impact on young people, and was told that if she didn't like it then she should go back to where she came from (those were the actual words used). She and her husband have lived in the UK for 50 years when he moved to take up a position as a hospital consultant, and they're both highy educated, and are fairly wealthy, as is her acquaintance.

While they have experienced very occasional anti Irish bigotry in the past this is the first time that its happened so close to home, and they are very concerned this is only the beginning. Tbh I think a can of worms has been opened and that we'll see more and more violent expressions of racism as the social upheaval the referendum has brought about escalates.
I hope this isn't the case, though as has been said, supposedly responsible politicians have been telling people their lives are being ruined by immigrants.

I think you'll find tensions are high everywhere though. I try to keep my own intolerance in check but a couple of friends have told me they are voting out and I genuinely think less of them and when someone told me the other day "We wont leave so I thought I may as well vote out" I felt like telling him to f**k off.
I'm conflicted in the same way. I'm trying very hard not to despise Brexiters but i can't help constructing internal diatribes to direct at the ignorant mass of filth who have ushered so much toxicity into the country. I try to remember that people have been disempowered for decades and that kindness and conciliation rather than cruelty and division is the answer.

Earlier, my girlfriend asked me if i thought she looks very Eastern European, if i thought that people would realise she was an immigrant.

This is all a bit Weimar Germany.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by CM11 »

SamShark wrote:
One of the reasons I didn't vote was I didn't want to get offside with either my old mate The Guardian Reader or the lads down the EDL club.

As it turns out The Guardian Reader has said don't call him until August he's so upset.
Someone I've known since childhood - the seemingly decent and not thick parent of a school friend - said on Facebook "I'm voting leave as I'm sick of all the foreign aid being sent to Africa and ending up in the hands of corrupt Governments"

???????
There seems to be prevailing sense that some leave voters thought they were literally voting to leave the world and be left alone to their own devices. As if Britain could exist entirely on its own without contact with the outside world. Or if they did have to contact the outside world it'd be to take things from them without charge.

As I've said on another thread, it was a pretty unfair vote to be honest. It was asking a thousand different questions with some people voting to leave while answering a question that wasn't asked.

I don't know if stay or go will ultimately be the right choice for the UK, it might well be when everyone looks back in 20 years, but I'd challenge you to find 10% of the those who voted (to stay or leave) who understood even half of what they were actually voting for.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by C69 »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:Calm down you remaining cnt. We need to lower the mood of tension and division not increase it.
I voted leave :x
Racist.
Someone had to make a stand against all those white Europeans pitching up in London and taking the jobs of black Londoners.

I had a black boss until Thursday. He got fired by a Yorkshireman on Thursday.
What ethnicity was this man of York?
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by unseenwork »

c69 wrote: What ethnicity was this man of York?
Yorkish I should imagine.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Anonymous 1 »

CM11 wrote:
SamShark wrote:
One of the reasons I didn't vote was I didn't want to get offside with either my old mate The Guardian Reader or the lads down the EDL club.

As it turns out The Guardian Reader has said don't call him until August he's so upset.
Someone I've known since childhood - the seemingly decent and not thick parent of a school friend - said on Facebook "I'm voting leave as I'm sick of all the foreign aid being sent to Africa and ending up in the hands of corrupt Governments"

???????
There seems to be prevailing sense that some leave voters thought they were literally voting to leave the world and be left alone to their own devices..
Not to mention all the remain voters talking amongst themselves and deciding leave voters would vote differently if we could vote again next week
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by LeinsterLion »

Womack wrote:I'm finding these stories the most tiresome aspect of the post-Brexit social media backlash.

It's hardly as if pre-referendum Britain was a utopia of racial tolerance and goodwill. The fact that the pre-existing abusive morons have some new, topical material is hardly indicative of 'the way things are going', except of course in the self-fulfilling sense of a new narrative forming.
Missing the point
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Anonymous 1 »

c69 wrote: What ethnicity was this man of York?
He was a Yorkshireman
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by C69 »

Seneca of the Night wrote:What ethnicity was this man of York?
I'd say 10,000 years of dna not straying 20 miles from his local village. He fires people like having a cup of tea.[/quote]
Yorkshire tea no doubt.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Newby1 »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:Calm down you remaining cnt. We need to lower the mood of tension and division not increase it.
I voted leave :x
Racist.
Someone had to make a stand against all those white Europeans pitching up in London and taking the jobs of black Londoners.

I had a black boss until Thursday. He got fired by a Yorkshireman on Thursday.
Merry's been busy...
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by Womack »

Conservative Eddie wrote: Maybe this will click when all that money that went towards Britain's net EU contribution, doesn't get allocated back to some regeneration project in Cornwall or some NHS Trust in Yorkshire, but is used to offset the next capital-gains-tax cut.
I doubt it - plenty of EU money went on regeneration and infrastructure projects in Wales but it didn't stop the Leekists voting to leave in surprising number.

It's almost as if, as you say, a vast swathe of the populace isn't as enamoured of a modern, globalised, free-movement, free-market world as us edumacated types are.

And this is what I find so objectionable about the 'worrying signs' thing - it's just another bit of preaching to the converted that achieves nothing and changes nothing. Yes, we all know the lumpen proles are frightful, bigoted scum - the question is, what do we do about it?
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by LeinsterLion »

Womack wrote:It's almost as if, as you say, a vast swathe of the populace isn't as enamoured of a modern, globalised, free-movement, free-market world as us edumacated types are.
It's more likely they don't know what half those terms actually mean, or what their impact and effect are
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by theo »

Womack wrote:
Conservative Eddie wrote: Maybe this will click when all that money that went towards Britain's net EU contribution, doesn't get allocated back to some regeneration project in Cornwall or some NHS Trust in Yorkshire, but is used to offset the next capital-gains-tax cut.
I doubt it - plenty of EU money went on regeneration and infrastructure projects in Wales but it didn't stop the Leekists voting to leave in surprising number.

It's almost as if, as you say, a vast swathe of the populace isn't as enamoured of a modern, globalised, free-movement, free-market world as us edumacated types are.

And this is what I find so objectionable about the 'worrying signs' thing - it's just another bit of preaching to the converted that achieves nothing and changes nothing. Yes, we all know the lumpen proles are frightful, bigoted scum - the question is, what do we do about it?
Ignore them.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by CM11 »

Anonymous. wrote:
CM11 wrote:
SamShark wrote:
One of the reasons I didn't vote was I didn't want to get offside with either my old mate The Guardian Reader or the lads down the EDL club.

As it turns out The Guardian Reader has said don't call him until August he's so upset.
Someone I've known since childhood - the seemingly decent and not thick parent of a school friend - said on Facebook "I'm voting leave as I'm sick of all the foreign aid being sent to Africa and ending up in the hands of corrupt Governments"

???????
There seems to be prevailing sense that some leave voters thought they were literally voting to leave the world and be left alone to their own devices..
Not to mention all the remain voters talking amongst themselves and deciding leave voters would vote differently if we could vote again next week
Indeed. It's not like there's any evidence that this would be the case.

Personally, apart from the anectodal aspect, I think it would happen because of the way people vote and what's in their mind currently. i.e. massive negativity, talk of recession, world in shock, lies being exposed etc, etc. The negative aspect alone would cause plenty of voters who were swing voters and hadn't really thought it through, to change.

The problem I see with some leave voters on here is that they seem to be taking every comment personally. I'm sure there's plenty who've thought it through and would have voted from an informed POV but you'd be mad to think more than 10-20% of the 72% did. The rest will have picked a soundbite to latch onto to make their mind up. Same as they would if they had to vote again today.
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by SamShark »

It's almost as if, as you say, a vast swathe of the populace isn't as enamoured of a modern, globalised, free-movement, free-market world as us edumacated types are.

And this is what I find so objectionable about the 'worrying signs' thing - it's just another bit of preaching to the converted that achieves nothing and changes nothing. Yes, we all know the lumpen proles are frightful, bigoted scum - the question is, what do we do about it?
The Welsh thing is particularly confusing as I thought they had very little immigration?

I dont know WTF that can be done but I'm pretty damn sure that it was a disaster that lying bastards could say that inadequate housing stock, poor NHS etc were the fault of immigrants.

It's been said hundreds of times but the campaign was utterly appalling - pretty much people just saying what they want and if challenged just trot out a come back like "project fear", "too many experts", "they cant be trusted as they have an agenda" etc
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

Post by shabadoo »

c69 wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:
c69 wrote:No Zappa I am not a modern day Jesus just a prophet.
I may have phrased the sentence poorly but I don't think it merited being called a bigoted prick.
Perhaps prick was a bit too sexualised a word to use.
The sentiments expressed were certainly bigoted imho.
I would 100% agree with Zappa, racism is absolutely a sign of lack of intelligence.

I would think claiming it is not is far more a sign of bigotry that claiming it is.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: The true face of brexit supporters ?

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CM11 wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
CM11 wrote:
SamShark wrote:
One of the reasons I didn't vote was I didn't want to get offside with either my old mate The Guardian Reader or the lads down the EDL club.

As it turns out The Guardian Reader has said don't call him until August he's so upset.
Someone I've known since childhood - the seemingly decent and not thick parent of a school friend - said on Facebook "I'm voting leave as I'm sick of all the foreign aid being sent to Africa and ending up in the hands of corrupt Governments"

???????
There seems to be prevailing sense that some leave voters thought they were literally voting to leave the world and be left alone to their own devices..
Not to mention all the remain voters talking amongst themselves and deciding leave voters would vote differently if we could vote again next week
Indeed. It's not like there's any evidence that this would be the case.

Personally, apart from the anectodal aspect, I think it would happen because of the way people vote and what's in their mind currently. i.e. massive negativity, talk of recession, world in shock, lies being exposed etc, etc. The negative aspect alone would cause plenty of voters who were swing voters and hadn't really thought it through, to change.

The problem I see with some leave voters on here is that they seem to be taking every comment personally. I'm sure there's plenty who've thought it through and would have voted from an informed POV but you'd be mad to think more than 10-20% of the 72% did. The rest will have picked a soundbite to latch onto to make their mind up. Same as they would if they had to vote again today.
Well you would like to think that and you may well be right in what you would like to think. I don't know but then again neither do you.
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