100 years ago today

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Shrekles
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100 years ago today

Post by Shrekles »

The Battle of the Somme began....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZQame6Y5pU
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jdogscoop
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by jdogscoop »

Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play?

Edit: Ah, I see.
Sundy
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Sundy »

From wiki
The first day on the Somme began 141 days of the Battle of the Somme and the opening day of the Battle of Albert. The attack was made by five divisions of the French Sixth Army either side of the Somme, eleven British divisions of the Fourth Army north of the Somme to Serre and two divisions of the Third Army opposite Gommecourt, against the German Second Army of General Fritz von Below. The German defence south of the Albert–Bapaume road mostly collapsed and the French had "complete success" on both banks of the Somme, as did the British from the army boundary at Maricourt to the Albert–Bapaume road. On the south bank the German defence was made incapable of resisting another attack and a substantial retreat began; on the north bank the abandonment of Fricourt was ordered. The defenders on the commanding ground north of the road inflicted a huge defeat on the British infantry, who had an unprecedented number of casualties. Several truces were negotiated, to recover wounded from no man's land north of the road. The Fourth Army took 57,470 casualties, of which 19,240 men were killed, the French Sixth Army had 1,590 casualties and the German 2nd Army had 10,000–12,000 losses.
Incredible amount of causalities on 1 day.

9 VC's awarded for actions on the 1st of July 1916
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Ted.
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Ted. »

Both my grandfathers were there. Two great uncles were killed, one the brother of one of my grandfatherly partipants, the other the brother of my grandmother, the wife of the other participant. One grandfather was a machine gunner, the other was a sniper. The latter's diaries are chilling reading.
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Taranaki Snapper
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Taranaki Snapper »

if you have completed walking tours of both Flanders and Long Tan, could you be considered a Somnambulist?
kagamusha
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by kagamusha »

Men from all cities, towns and villages from the British Isles and the Empire were there.

Men from Hull and mainly other Yorkshire towns and cities were in the 31st Division.

31st DIVISION
92nd Brigade
10th Battalion, The East Yorkshire Regiment (Hull Commercials)
11th Battalion, The East Yorkshire Regiment (Hull Tradesmen)
13th Battalion, The York and Lancaster Regiment (1st Barnsley Pals)
14th Battalion, The York and Lancaster Regiment (2nd Barnsley Pals)

93rd Brigade
15th Battalion, The West Yorkshire Regiment (Leeds Pals)
16th Battalion, The West Yorkshire Regiment (1st Bradford Pals)
18th Battalion, The West Yorkshire Regiment (2nd Bradford Pals)
18th Battalion, The Durham Light Infantry (Durham Pals)

94th Brigade
11th Battalion, The East Lancashire Regiment (Accrington Pals)
12th Battalion, The York and Lancaster Regiment (Sheffield City)
12th Battalion, The East Yorkshire Regiment (Hull Sportsmen)
13th Battalion, The East Yorkshire Regiment (T’Others)

Divisional Pioneers
12th Battalion, The King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (Halifax Pals)
Last edited by kagamusha on Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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theo
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by theo »

So you were David’s father,
And he was your only son,
And the new-cut peats are rotting
And the work is left undone,
Because of an old man weeping,
Just an old man in pain,
For David, his son David,
That will not come again.

Oh, the letters he wrote you,
And I can see them still,
Not a word of the fighting,
But just the sheep on the hill
And how you should get the crops in
Ere the year get stormier,
And the Bosches have got his body,
And I was his officer.

You were only David’s father,
But I had fifty sons
When we went up in the evening
Under the arch of the guns,
And we came back at twilight -
O God! I heard them call
To me for help and pity
That could not help at all.

Oh, never will I forget you,
My men that trusted me,
More my sons than your fathers’,
For they could only see
The little helpless babies
And the young men in their pride.
They could not see you dying,
And hold you while you died.

Happy and young and gallant,
They saw their first-born go,
But not the strong limbs broken
And the beautiful men brought low,
The piteous writhing bodies,
They screamed “Don’t leave me, sir”,
For they were only your fathers
But I was your officer.

RIP.
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Leinsterman
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Leinsterman »

How big was a British division in WW1? Typically, I would have thought they were about 12,000 strong so 11 divisions in the Fourth Army gives ~132,000 men and casualties of 57,000 - over 40% casualties. That's horrific.

Quite a few memorial services taking place in Ireland over the next few days, along with a few TV programmes dedicated to it.
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AND-y
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by AND-y »

What a waste, poor bastards. :(
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nuffsaid
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by nuffsaid »

I can remember my granddad trying to tell me what it was like; he couldn't.

He lost two brothers.
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Lady P
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Lady P »

I regained an entirely new sense of anger at things like the Somme when I visited Gettysburg. Huge losses arising from a tactic of shelling the other line, then assuming it was ok to head towards it. Sounds awfully familiar and was 50 years before WW1.
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grubberkick
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by grubberkick »

Very meaningful and powerful act of remembrance today from the Somme memorial.
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Diego
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Diego »

All it achieved was WW2 as well. Such an insane time.
Raison D'etre
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Raison D'etre »

We were Lions led by Donkeys. Today we're... oh f..k
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msp.
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by msp. »

Leinsterman wrote:How big was a British division in WW1? Typically, I would have thought they were about 12,000 strong so 11 divisions in the Fourth Army gives ~132,000 men and casualties of 57,000 - over 40% casualties. That's horrific.

Quite a few memorial services taking place in Ireland over the next few days, along with a few TV programmes dedicated to it.
And most of those were in the first few hours....

07:30 was the start, so by now 12:40 most of those 57,000 would already be casualties (or 19000 would already be dead),,
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msp.
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by msp. »

Raison D'etre wrote:We were Lions led by Donkeys. Today we're... oh f..k
Least those donkeys had a strategy - highly flawed, but a strategy never the less..
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SamShark
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by SamShark »

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earl the beaver
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by earl the beaver »

msp. wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:How big was a British division in WW1? Typically, I would have thought they were about 12,000 strong so 11 divisions in the Fourth Army gives ~132,000 men and casualties of 57,000 - over 40% casualties. That's horrific.

Quite a few memorial services taking place in Ireland over the next few days, along with a few TV programmes dedicated to it.
And most of those were in the first few hours....

07:30 was the start, so by now 12:40 most of those 57,000 would already be casualties (or 19000 would already be dead),,
36th Division alone lost over 5,000 in the first day
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msp.
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by msp. »

earl the beaver wrote:
msp. wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:How big was a British division in WW1? Typically, I would have thought they were about 12,000 strong so 11 divisions in the Fourth Army gives ~132,000 men and casualties of 57,000 - over 40% casualties. That's horrific.

Quite a few memorial services taking place in Ireland over the next few days, along with a few TV programmes dedicated to it.
And most of those were in the first few hours....

07:30 was the start, so by now 12:40 most of those 57,000 would already be casualties (or 19000 would already be dead),,
36th Division alone lost over 5,000 in the first day
Was that killed or injured ?
Emily
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Emily »

Anyone see the silent ghost soldiers on their commute this am - they were at Waterloo Stn as I was heading home this am?

It's running under the hashtag #wearehere.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07 ... owerful-s/
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Andalu
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Andalu »

Spoiler: show
Image
Waterloo station today
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Winnie
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Winnie »

msp. wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
msp. wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:How big was a British division in WW1? Typically, I would have thought they were about 12,000 strong so 11 divisions in the Fourth Army gives ~132,000 men and casualties of 57,000 - over 40% casualties. That's horrific.

Quite a few memorial services taking place in Ireland over the next few days, along with a few TV programmes dedicated to it.
And most of those were in the first few hours....

07:30 was the start, so by now 12:40 most of those 57,000 would already be casualties (or 19000 would already be dead),,
36th Division alone lost over 5,000 in the first day
Was that killed or injured ?
Both, I think it was over 2000 killed
Lead to this quote:

I am not an Ulsterman but yesterday, the 1st. July, as I followed their amazing attack, I felt that I would rather be an Ulsterman than anything else in the world." (Cpt Wilfred Spender, 2 July 1916)
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theo
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by theo »

Andalu wrote:
Spoiler: show
Image
Waterloo station today
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Emily
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Emily »

A collation of all the photos/vids here.



https://becausewearehere.co.uk/wearehere/
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theo
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by theo »

Emily wrote:A collation of all the photos/vids here.



https://becausewearehere.co.uk/wearehere/
Absolutely fantastic and moving tribute. No media spotlight on it either. It just happened. Incredible stuff.
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SamShark
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by SamShark »

I was at Waterloo this morning and there was a massive line of WW1 soldiers in a neat line coming down a staircase.

Not sure if they were genuinely going somewhere or as I later found out more of a living memorial sort of thing.

Impressive.
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MungoMan
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by MungoMan »

The Farmer Remembers the Somme

Vance Palmer (Australia, 1920)

Will they never fade or pass!
The mud, and the misty figures endlessly coming
In file through the foul morass,
And the grey flood-water ripping the reeds and grass,
And the steel wings drumming.

The hills are bright in the sun:
There's nothing changed or marred in the well-known places;
When work for the day is done
There's talk, and quiet laughter, and gleams of fun
On the old folks' faces.

I have returned to these:
The farm, and the kindly Bush, and the young calves lowing;
But all that my mind sees
Is a quaking bog in a mist - stark, snapped trees,

And the dark Somme flowing.
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koroke hangareka
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by koroke hangareka »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjRD64vcyQY

Looks like the actual movie they made of the battle. Which was produced so quickly that it was shown to the soldiers while the battle was still going on. So you could come out of the line for a break, and watch the movie and see yourself going into battle. And all your dead mates.
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grubberkick
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by grubberkick »

Winnie wrote:
msp. wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
msp. wrote:
Leinsterman wrote:How big was a British division in WW1? Typically, I would have thought they were about 12,000 strong so 11 divisions in the Fourth Army gives ~132,000 men and casualties of 57,000 - over 40% casualties. That's horrific.

Quite a few memorial services taking place in Ireland over the next few days, along with a few TV programmes dedicated to it.
And most of those were in the first few hours....

07:30 was the start, so by now 12:40 most of those 57,000 would already be casualties (or 19000 would already be dead),,
36th Division alone lost over 5,000 in the first day
Was that killed or injured ?
Both, I think it was over 2000 killed
Lead to this quote:

I am not an Ulsterman but yesterday, the 1st. July, as I followed their amazing attack, I felt that I would rather be an Ulsterman than anything else in the world." (Cpt Wilfred Spender, 2 July 1916)
One of my family members was not an Ulsterman either, but he was a chaplain to the Royal Irish Fusiliers and to a casualty station. He ministered to the regiment and of course communicated with the families of the fallen. He did survive the war though for a few years, but in ill health. What nightmares did they all have.
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ScarfaceClaw
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by ScarfaceClaw »

theo wrote:So you were David’s father,
And he was your only son,
And the new-cut peats are rotting
And the work is left undone,
Because of an old man weeping,
Just an old man in pain,
For David, his son David,
That will not come again.

Oh, the letters he wrote you,
And I can see them still,
Not a word of the fighting,
But just the sheep on the hill
And how you should get the crops in
Ere the year get stormier,
And the Bosches have got his body,
And I was his officer.

You were only David’s father,
But I had fifty sons
When we went up in the evening
Under the arch of the guns,
And we came back at twilight -
O God! I heard them call
To me for help and pity
That could not help at all.

Oh, never will I forget you,
My men that trusted me,
More my sons than your fathers’,
For they could only see
The little helpless babies
And the young men in their pride.
They could not see you dying,
And hold you while you died.

Happy and young and gallant,
They saw their first-born go,
But not the strong limbs broken
And the beautiful men brought low,
The piteous writhing bodies,
They screamed “Don’t leave me, sir”,
For they were only your fathers
But I was your officer.

RIP.
I've not seen this before but it is an incredibly moving poem.
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msp.
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by msp. »

Rowland Fraser - Scottish Forward was killed o the first day..
Early life[edit]

Rowland Fraser was born in Perth, Scotland on 10 January 1890. He attended Merchiston Preparatory School from 1900 to 1903, then Merchiston Castle from 1903 to 1908, before going up to Pembroke College, Cambridge.[1]

Rugby career[edit]

Fraser was selected to represent Cambridge University RFC in the Varsity Matches of 1908, 1909 and, as captain, 1910. The first of these was a draw, but Cambridge lost the next two.[1] He was then picked to play for Scotland in 1911, playing his debut against France.[2] Scotland lost all four games of the 1911 Five Nations Championship, and was the first international side to be defeated by France.[1] Fraser and Frederick Harding Turner were the only two forwards to play in all four.[2] According to E. H. D. Sewell, the contemporary rugby journalist, he was not to blame for his lack of wins, being a "hard-working [forward]... a good dribbler, and a magnificent tackler."[1]

International appearances[edit]


France 16–15 Lost 2 January 1911 Colombes [3]
Wales 10–32 Lost 4 February 1911 Inverleith [4]
Ireland 10–16 Lost 25 February 1911 Inverleith [5]
England 13–8 Lost 18 March 1911 Twickenham [6]


Military service[edit]

Fraser was commissioned into the Rifle Brigade on 15 August 1914. He trained with the 6th Battalion at Sheerness, until he crossed to France with his unit on 4 January 1915. He was promoted to lieutenant in August 1915, and to captain in November.[1] In June 1916, Fraser returned home on four days leave, and was married on 20 June to May Dorothy Ross of Invinidi, USA, returning the following day to France.[7] Ten days later, Fraser was killed in action in the Battle of the Somme on 1 July 1916. He was leading his company in an assault on German positions, when he was hit by a machine-gun bullet. His orderly got him into a shell-hole and dressed his wound but was then struck by shrapnel.[8]

He is remembered on the Thiepval Memorial to the missing of the Somme (Pier and Face 16 B and 16 C).[9

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowland_Fraser
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theo
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by theo »

ScarfaceClaw wrote:
theo wrote:So you were David’s father,
And he was your only son,
And the new-cut peats are rotting
And the work is left undone,
Because of an old man weeping,
Just an old man in pain,
For David, his son David,
That will not come again.

Oh, the letters he wrote you,
And I can see them still,
Not a word of the fighting,
But just the sheep on the hill
And how you should get the crops in
Ere the year get stormier,
And the Bosches have got his body,
And I was his officer.

You were only David’s father,
But I had fifty sons
When we went up in the evening
Under the arch of the guns,
And we came back at twilight -
O God! I heard them call
To me for help and pity
That could not help at all.

Oh, never will I forget you,
My men that trusted me,
More my sons than your fathers’,
For they could only see
The little helpless babies
And the young men in their pride.
They could not see you dying,
And hold you while you died.

Happy and young and gallant,
They saw their first-born go,
But not the strong limbs broken
And the beautiful men brought low,
The piteous writhing bodies,
They screamed “Don’t leave me, sir”,
For they were only your fathers
But I was your officer.

RIP.
I've not seen this before but it is an incredibly moving poem.
Ewart Alan Mackintosh
gokwe
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by gokwe »

19,240 dead on day one of 140 days, more than Waterloo, the Crimea and the Boer War combined. Lest we forget. RIP.

The negligence of the senior Officers would be classified as war crimes today.

Military leadership has improved vastly since then, unfortunately the politicians have regressed...
obelixtim
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by obelixtim »

gokwe wrote:19,240 dead on day one of 140 days, more than Waterloo, the Crimea and the Boer War combined. Lest we forget. RIP.

The negligence of the senior Officers would be classified as war crimes today.

Military leadership has improved vastly since then, unfortunately the politicians have regressed...
Blackadder summed it up nicely..."The general wants to move his drinks cabinet a few feet closer to Berlin"....
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Taranaki Snapper
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Taranaki Snapper »

Waterloo Station today, allegedly...
Spoilered for size
Spoiler: show
Image
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message #2527204
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by message #2527204 »

My grandfather was there with 4th army borders. Also awarded a dcm at passchendaele. I really should make the effort to find out more - but not sure how.
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redderneck
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by redderneck »

Whomever came up with the 'Ghost Soldiers' living tribute, deserves a beer or three. Incredibly moving concept.

Lost a great grandfather there.
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Bullettyme
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Bullettyme »

Two great grandfathers fought there and luckily made it back, one from Strabane, Co. Tyrone and one from Kingstown (Dun Laoghaire).
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redderneck
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by redderneck »

theo wrote:
ScarfaceClaw wrote:
theo wrote:So you were David’s father,
And he was your only son,
And the new-cut peats are rotting
And the work is left undone,
Because of an old man weeping,
Just an old man in pain,
For David, his son David,
That will not come again.

Oh, the letters he wrote you,
And I can see them still,
Not a word of the fighting,
But just the sheep on the hill
And how you should get the crops in
Ere the year get stormier,
And the Bosches have got his body,
And I was his officer.

You were only David’s father,
But I had fifty sons
When we went up in the evening
Under the arch of the guns,
And we came back at twilight -
O God! I heard them call
To me for help and pity
That could not help at all.

Oh, never will I forget you,
My men that trusted me,
More my sons than your fathers’,
For they could only see
The little helpless babies
And the young men in their pride.
They could not see you dying,
And hold you while you died.

Happy and young and gallant,
They saw their first-born go,
But not the strong limbs broken
And the beautiful men brought low,
The piteous writhing bodies,
They screamed “Don’t leave me, sir”,
For they were only your fathers
But I was your officer.

RIP.
I've not seen this before but it is an incredibly moving poem.
Ewart Alan Mackintosh
Also hadn't read/heard this piece before, until it was read at the ceremony broadcast on TV last night. Harrowing stuff.
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Bullettyme
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Re: 100 years ago today

Post by Bullettyme »

Image

That's my great grandfather in the middle there. Not sure if this was after he was discharged or before he signed up. Really only the first time seeing this photo.
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