SA Politics thread

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sorCrer
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by sorCrer »

Malema: “Our country has been captured. Our country is being molested by the Guptas and Jacob Zuma, without Vaseline.”

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Sandstorm
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Sandstorm »

sorCrer wrote:Malema: “Our country has been captured. Our country is being molested by the Guptas and Jacob Zuma, without Vaseline.”

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No. Way. :shock: :lol:
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sorCrer
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by sorCrer »

Sandstorm wrote:
sorCrer wrote:Malema: “Our country has been captured. Our country is being molested by the Guptas and Jacob Zuma, without Vaseline.”

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No. Way. :shock: :lol:
Loves the vaseline does ole Julius. Here's the best one ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmf-EAIO6hM
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echo
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by echo »

sorCrer wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
sorCrer wrote:Malema: “Our country has been captured. Our country is being molested by the Guptas and Jacob Zuma, without Vaseline.”

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No. Way. :shock: :lol:
Loves the vaseline does ole Julius. Here's the best one ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmf-EAIO6hM
Mrs Juju is doubtless a fan of the old petroleum jelly too.
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saffer13
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by saffer13 »

The stuff these okes come up with.

Like "The leading cause of death in SA is people dying"
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Fangle
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Fangle »

saffer13 wrote:The stuff these okes come up with.

Like "The leading cause of death in SA is people dying"
That's accurate. Who said it, and do you have a link?
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Jensrsa
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Jensrsa »

Image
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saffer13
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by saffer13 »

Fangle wrote:
saffer13 wrote:The stuff these okes come up with.

Like "The leading cause of death in SA is people dying"
That's accurate. Who said it, and do you have a link?
It was on a fake news site. :D

In light of everything else going on and Zuma's "shower prevents aids" comments...would this surprise you though?
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by troglodiet »

Image
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Bokkom
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Bokkom »

The circus is now in full swing.

Watch this space.
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saffer13
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by saffer13 »

If nothing happens after this then I struggle to see a scenario where anything will change.
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Jensrsa
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Jensrsa »

troglodiet wrote:
Spoiler: show
Image
Pravin Gordhan's degrees are meaningless honourary degrees, his real degree is a B.Pharm. Gigaba real degrees are a BA in education and a MA in social policy, whatever that may be
Last edited by Jensrsa on Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Wilson's Toffee
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Wilson's Toffee »

troglodiet wrote:Image
Zuma again illustrating his contempt for education and qusalificatins. And the general SA public.

A basic illiterate thumbing his nose at the civilised world ...
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Pole »

sorCrer wrote:Malema: “Our country has been captured. Our country is being molested by the Guptas and Jacob Zuma, without Vaseline.”

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Malema is Alischoice and I claim my red berate..
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saffer13
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by saffer13 »

Pole wrote:
sorCrer wrote:Malema: “Our country has been captured. Our country is being molested by the Guptas and Jacob Zuma, without Vaseline.”

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Malema is Alischoice and I claim my prison lube..
fixed...
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Bokkom
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Bokkom »

I think it was round about March 2016 when I told you guys that we've entered the realm of being governed by gangsters after the concourt decision on Nkandla and their finding that our president tramples on our constitution. The thing that really worried me, was the fact that the parliament closed ranks behind this criminal leader in the wake of the court's decision and nothing happened to him, on the contrary, he only dug in.

Saffer13 is correct; if nothing happens after the latest fiasco, we are certainly staring down the barrel. Zim 2.0 is looming.
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henry
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by henry »

Wilson's Toffee wrote:
troglodiet wrote:Image
Zuma again illustrating his contempt for education and qusalificatins. And the general SA public.

A basic illiterate thumbing his nose at the civilised world ...
Please be ironic. Please.
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Rinkals
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Rinkals »

On the whole, I've been disappointed by the general acceptance of Zuma's stealthy midnight manoeuvrers, but I suppose that, working from home, I haven't had much contact with the mood of the country in the last couple of days.

The threatened resignations haven't come, the swearing in of the new ministers was covered as a normal event; it all felt disappointingly normal. A couple of marches were also convened and about half a dozen people turned out.

These are, however, dramatic days on which South Africa will rise or fall.

Zuma cannot be allowed to get away with this.

I can understand why Ramaphosa hasn't resigned; he is technically next in line for the Presidency and his removal would give Dlamini-Zuma a free run to succeed her husband.

Stephen Grotes tries hard to convey yesterday's drama:
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-04-01-reporters-notebook-the-day-south-africa-woke-up/#.WN81Fq0vDBk
Gwede Mantashe wrote: We were given a list that was complete and my own view as the Secretary-General, I felt like this list has been developed somewhere else and it was given to us to legitimise it.

...

My own view is that I’m very uncomfortable because areas where ministers do not perform have not been touched. Ministers have been moved and the majority of them were good performing ministers. I’m very much uncomfortable with it.
He is obviously referring to the Gupta Mansions in Saxonwold.

It is also worth noting that Zuma has cancelled Kathrada's Memorial Service.
How small is this? Really? Is it now petty o'clock? Cancelling a memorial service. What kind of big man, big boss, big person in charge does this? What are you so afraid of, President Zuma?

But this is South Africa. A country, as Richard Poplak will tell you, with zero chill. And someone who had just lost her life partner, who is in mourning, who has given so much of herself to the Struggle, against Apartheid and for a better South Africa, was not taking it lying down.

The service will go on, said Barbara Hogan. “The country needs to be taken back. A country united is never divided. And this country is not for sale. Thank you”.

It was incredibly powerful stuff. The symbolism of this, a widow, in mourning, defying a President of the same party her sadly-departed husband dedicated his life to. Who spent 26 years in jail for his beliefs. And Hogan should be able to rest now, she has done more than her fair share for this country, spending eight years in jail, with time in solitary confinement, and was the first woman in this country to be convicted of high treason. At the time, “high treason” meant taking on the apartheid state.
For people not familiar with South African politics, "Kathy" was one of the Rivonia Trialists who was convicted and imprisoned alongside Nelson Mandela. Hugh Jackman recently paid him tribute. (I'm mentioning that to give some indication of his importance in the South African politishpere, not as a comment on Hugh Jackman).

So for me, anyway, there is reason to hope.
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Slider »

Don't expect too much immediately. The anti-Zuma groups are so widespread, they will need time to act together. The opposition parties can make noise but the governing party holds the cards. The ANC will want to keep the decision making within their own senior groups, Cyril can't be seen as a rogue individual, the members don't like people creating distance from the party.

We who post here, like most who don't vote ANC, tend to think of the ANC as a homogeneous leftist party, in reality it is a coalition of many groups, differentiated by ethnicity, class, ideology, geography. That complexity leads to slow reactions.

But it will happen.
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Rinkals »

Well, Barbara Hogan seems to be very riled.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-03-31-reshuffle-chronicles-its-time-to-stand-up-recall-zuma-hogan/

Doesn't sound like she's going to be letting it slide, despite Zuma's attempts to stifle comment by cancelling the memorial service of one of the most important (with Mandela) struggle icons. Zuma will lose a lot of support over this. The Guptas won't care, though.
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sorCrer
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by sorCrer »

Rinkals wrote:Well, Barbara Hogan seems to be very riled.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-03-31-reshuffle-chronicles-its-time-to-stand-up-recall-zuma-hogan/

Doesn't sound like she's going to be letting it slide, despite Zuma's attempts to stifle comment by cancelling the memorial service of one of the most important (with Mandela) struggle icons. Zuma will lose a lot of support over this. The Guptas won't care, though.
Doubt she would being Kathrada's wife.
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Rinkals
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Rinkals »

sorCrer wrote:
Rinkals wrote:Well, Barbara Hogan seems to be very riled.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-03-31-reshuffle-chronicles-its-time-to-stand-up-recall-zuma-hogan/

Doesn't sound like she's going to be letting it slide, despite Zuma's attempts to stifle comment by cancelling the memorial service of one of the most important (with Mandela) struggle icons. Zuma will lose a lot of support over this. The Guptas won't care, though.
Doubt she would being Kathrada's wife.
No.

The point being is that she isn't someone who can be easily vilified as an "impimpi" by Oros.

I don't think it will help Zuma to trash Kathrada's memory.

In any case, Zuma may well be celebrating in Saxonwold as we speak, but I doubt his troubles are over just yet.
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Rinkals »

Zuma seems to have badly miscalculated.

The Kathrada memorial service (which Zuma cancelled) has been organised at short notice in the Johannesburg Civic Hall.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-ahmed-kathrada-memorial-20170401
14:26
Derek Hanekom and Pravin Gordhan get the loudest cheers of all.

The crowd doesn't want to stop cheering.
14:25
Huge cheers and standing ovation for the ministers and deputies and the ones who have lost their jobs this week who are in attendance.
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Wilson's Toffee
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Wilson's Toffee »

henry wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
troglodiet wrote:Image
Zuma again illustrating his contempt for education and qusalificatins. And the general SA public.

A basic illiterate thumbing his nose at the civilised world ...
Please be ironic. Please.
Typo. you dumb plum. Can barely see the phone screen, let alone details.
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Rinkals
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Rinkals »

Two contrasting views of the likely next battle field in Zuma's fight for the Treasury and thus his own survival.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/forces-gear-up-for-the-zuma-war-20170402-2
City Press has heard that Zuma’s backers concluded in recent weeks that it was safe to get rid of opponents such as Gordhan.

They advised him that “it is high time to move” to avoid looking weak and being seen to be afraid of ratings agencies and big business.

New Finance Minister Malusi Gigaba was only expected to “tinker with fiscal policies here and there, where we need radical economic transformation”, said an NEC member who is close to Zuma.

“So, we dealt with Treasury. The rand will go down and it will pick up again because we are not going to come up with major policy changes.”

Strategists in the Zuma camp also noted that Gordhan and those ministers who had challenged Zuma’s authority had “no constituencies” in the ANC and would be unable to destabilise his support.

Motion of no confidence

Zuma’s backers are confident that they will muster the 201 votes needed to stave off a motion of no-confidence and ensure his survival.

Said one: “It is not easy for an ANC member, especially the backbenchers, to take an anti-ANC position.”

An ANC MP, who has been lobbied by the opposition, said this was a desperate move by opposition parties which was unlikely succeed.
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-04-03-removing-zuma-mbete-manoeuvres-into-the-power-play/#.WOHUC60vDBk
Mbete’s voice would be needed in the meeting of the six officials so that she, Zuma and Duarte can hold out against Ramaphosa, Mantashe and Mkhize. This will kick the debate to the NWC, which leans in favour of Zuma. They will argue that the contention between the officials should be dealt with internally and that ANC members should not collude with the opposition against an ANC president.

It is unlikely that the three officials would be able to counter that argument. It might also be difficult to call a special meeting of the national executive committee (NEC) to discuss the matter if there is disagreement amongst the officials on doing so. The ANC constitution is silent on how special NEC meetings can be called if there is disagreement amongst the officials or the NWC.

The result is that even though Mbete would have to schedule the parliamentary debate, the ANC will probably prevent its members from voting in favour of the motion. While leaders of the opposition parties are engaged in behind-the-scenes lobbying and negotiations with ANC MPs, the vote will be all the more difficult if the members have to defy an express instruction from the ANC. Some ANC MPs might still vote according to conscience against Zuma but it might be dicey to secure the requisite numbers.

This is now high-stakes politics. With deep divisions at every level of the ANC, the situation is unstable and difficult to predict. Zuma has played his cards by executing the reshuffle. Now he must fight to survive, and that fight can take various forms in the ANC and using the institutions of the state. His opponents across the political spectrum and in civil society need to think hard and smart about strategies to continue to isolate him from his backers and weaken his base.

What ultimately counts is whether they can cut short Zuma’s presidency and rescue the state from further capture and looting. That will not be an easy battle to win. But South Africa’s week of hell was also not a walk in the park for Zuma. He is also battered and bruised. 1

The final deathblow might not happen quickly but it needs to be decisive. Therefore the execution needs to be meticulous.
Parliament is currently in recess and Zuma and his allies clearly feel that the political heat will have died down enough to neuter any opposition. It's up to citizens to continue to stoke the anti-Zuma sentiment so that this doesn't happen.

We are asked to wear black today and there will be marches on Friday.

On Friday there were demonstrations in Capetown and Pretoria, but these were pitifully small.
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Rinkals »

Gigaba swings into action to start the official loot.

http://www.fin24.com/Opinion/Columnists/gigabas-first-24-hours-insights-into-the-future-20170403
While Gigaba attempted to reassure the country that the programme would not be “reckless” and “will be implemented at a pace and scale that the country can afford”, these commitments will be dissected and analysed in the months and years to come.

With rumours swirling for years about the role of Russia and Gupta-related companies, such a rapid move on the nuclear issue is only likely to add to suspicions from an increasingly critical and sceptical electorate. South Africans are more alert now than ever before not only to possible nefarious activities but also around the question of whether our ailing economy and inability to raise the huge capital required can tilt our economy to breaking point.
I was honestly expecting them to let this die down a bit before ramping up the pillaging.

Zuma clearly doesn't care.
At his first media briefing, Gigaba expressed a more populist view of not only economic policy but also his world view. It is precisely this world view of disdain for global financial institutions, big business and economic orthodoxy that has increasingly found support within several subsections of the ANC including the African National Congress Women's League, the African National Congress Youth League, the MK Military Veterans’ Association, and the Black Management Forum among others.

Gigaba’s statement on this was clear: “I will not be distracted by issues that are not relevant to the task at hand — accelerating radical economic transformation … for too long, there has been a narrative or perception around Treasury, that it belongs primarily and exclusively to ‘orthodox’ economists, big business, powerful interests and international investors.”

So, taking the rhetoric literally, South Africa just did precisely what it does not need – create further policy uncertainty and negative sentiment. Although Gigaba did concede that “South Africa was open to [ratings agencies] and accessible to them”, this was less than convincing.

Gigaba’s statement points to an almost indifference of the ratings agencies and a disregard for what a downgrade will do to the cost of capital and inability to spend on crucial infrastructure and crucial social services.
It's almost as if he was reading a speech written for him in the Saxonwold compound.
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saffer13
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by saffer13 »

Has this resulted in anything major yet?
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Rinkals
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Rinkals »

Major? as in what?

There is a request for a no-confidence debate. Mbete will delay it for as long as she can, possibly into June, and there's a lot that can happen between now and then.

The new Minister of Finance has confirmed that he doesn't understand economics and is basically parroting what Zuma has been saying and Zuma, in turn, probably got it from the Guptas.

It will need a fair bit of stamina to ensure that this won't be brushed under the carpet.
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by houtkabouter »

I don't think anything is going to happen about this. People dont seem to have the energy.
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saffer13
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by saffer13 »

houtkabouter wrote:I don't think anything is going to happen about this. People dont seem to have the energy.
My thoughts as well. April 7th is supposed to be a major protest day apparently.
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rabble
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by rabble »

The only way to get rid of Zuma if for the ANC to do it;
And there's no way they'll do the right thing.
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Fangle
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Fangle »

Half a dozen years ago, my contact in the reserve bank told me that the ANC was enacting legislation that would make it easier for them to control the treasury directly. This is another step in the process.
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saffer13
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by saffer13 »

Fangle wrote:Half a dozen years ago, my contact in the reserve bank told me that the ANC was enacting legislation that would make it easier for them to control the treasury directly. This is another step in the process.
Yupp, the ANC is as much the problem as Zuma.
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Rinkals
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Rinkals »

Not so.

There is a serious shitfight going on currently in the ANC.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/mantashe-slams-mabuza-we-are-not-toy-telephones-20170403

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/anc-calls-special-extended-nwc-as-divisions-deepen-over-zuma-reshuffle-20170403

Obviously this doesn't necessarily mean that Zuma will go, but it does indicate that he can no longer rely on them to close ranks around him.
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saffer13
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by saffer13 »

You've always been a bit of an ANC apologist though rinki.
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Fangle
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by Fangle »

I hear that S & P have degraded SA to junk status.
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saffer13
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by saffer13 »

Fangle wrote:I hear that S & P have degraded SA to junk status.
Yupp
South Africa's credit rating has been cut to junk status by the ratings agency S&P Global.

The agency said that political upheaval, including the sacking of finance minister Pravin Gordhan, was endangering the economy.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39476903
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saffer13
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by saffer13 »

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2017/0 ... es-it-mean
Chris Malikane‚ an associate professor of Economics at Wits University‚ said while “there is a lot of hype with the ratings agencies‚ the fact of the matter is that even if they cut the investment rate in South Africa‚ the average South African will not be much affected in the short-term.”

But the downgrade could in the longer term lead to higher interest rates‚ making it harder for families to pay for vehicles and their home loans.

The main thing a downgrade would bring‚ said Malikane‚ was is an increase in the risk premium‚ meaning lenders increase interest rates because of a perceived greater risk in default. The result is households with capital in investments and assets are going to be mostly affected.

Their net worth will decrease. But‚ Malikane noted “most households in South Africa don’t have the assets to be affected”. Where households could be greatly affected is credit lending.
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saffer13
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by saffer13 »

I wonder what impact, if any, this new fella will have on transformation policy?
Nxesi, from all accounts, is a different kettle of fish and the sports department is likely to function on a contrastingly more low-key basis from now on - both in policy-making and in introducing grandiose innovations.
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handyman
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Re: SA Politics thread

Post by handyman »

saffer13 wrote:You've always been a bit of an ANC apologist though rinki.
:lol: Spot on.
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