Planet Rugby Forum

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:24 pm

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:46 pm

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:32 pm

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:19 pm

MungoMan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:59 am If I've understood your point: your decision to invest is based on a belief that investment is self-evidently socially necessary and for that reason you probably won't be backing a lame horse provided you've spread your money around a bit.

My reasoning is fairly simple. It is that usually, once it becomes obvious that something is a good investment, it's too late. By the time us plebs know about it, the stocks have already been driven way up.

In this particular case, the conservative-white-haired old men who are usually responsible for that, are broadly speaking, a demography slow to accept the scientific reality of climate change, and thus also slow to accept the potential profit of investing in green stock options. Many of them are still even putting their money on the dead horse: coal and oil.

That means there is still an opportunity there to get in on a good thing while it's still relatively near the ground floor. Obviously not what it was ten or twenty years ago, but the ship has not yet sailed. So as long the unscientific sentiment regarding enviornmental protection still exists in the corridors of power, my gamble is that it's profitable to invest in green energy. In other words, put your money on the scientific consensus.

Mog, you do realise which companies own an awful lot of green tech & capacity don’t you ?
It’s oil companies like Bp who buy up projects and firms left right and centre like Lightsource, chargemaster etc. They own 70% of the worlds green tech (annoyingly can’t find the source of this ) yet spend about one percent of their budget on them. All of the oil majors are investing billions into renewables.

To be clear, I don't care if Hitler invested in them. I'm not making a political statement here. I'm (attempting, at-least) to make a wise investment. And if one is making a political statement by not investing in them, I'd suggest that person is a fool both financially and scientifically.

Of course traditional energy companies are investing in green energy. But they're still dragging their feet. That they're only investing 1% currently examplifies my theory on this ... a) by all rights they should be investing a shit tonne more already; b) one day in the not too distant future, they will be investing a shit tonne more. Best to get in before that time, right? That's my bet anyway, it's all a bit of a gamble.

Mog you must have some Irish blood here because you are contradicting yourself.
Their 1% far exceeds all the hippies and hippy investors combined, can you not see this ? Any green company worth investing in, they buy up. If you want to invest in green issues, buy Oil major shares. They only invest 1% because right now that’s all that’s commercially worth to them, not because they are dragging their heels youbdaft sod. If you can spot a hippy company before an oil one buys it, that will be the wisest investment - but from the sound of it you are buying the listed green shit that nobody else wants yet because it’s not making money. Hardly a wise investemetn strategy.

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:58 pm

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:24 pm

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:46 pm

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:32 pm

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:19 pm
My reasoning is fairly simple. It is that usually, once it becomes obvious that something is a good investment, it's too late. By the time us plebs know about it, the stocks have already been driven way up.

In this particular case, the conservative-white-haired old men who are usually responsible for that, are broadly speaking, a demography slow to accept the scientific reality of climate change, and thus also slow to accept the potential profit of investing in green stock options. Many of them are still even putting their money on the dead horse: coal and oil.

That means there is still an opportunity there to get in on a good thing while it's still relatively near the ground floor. Obviously not what it was ten or twenty years ago, but the ship has not yet sailed. So as long the unscientific sentiment regarding enviornmental protection still exists in the corridors of power, my gamble is that it's profitable to invest in green energy. In other words, put your money on the scientific consensus.

Mog, you do realise which companies own an awful lot of green tech & capacity don’t you ?
It’s oil companies like Bp who buy up projects and firms left right and centre like Lightsource, chargemaster etc. They own 70% of the worlds green tech (annoyingly can’t find the source of this ) yet spend about one percent of their budget on them. All of the oil majors are investing billions into renewables.

To be clear, I don't care if Hitler invested in them. I'm not making a political statement here. I'm (attempting, at-least) to make a wise investment. And if one is making a political statement by not investing in them, I'd suggest that person is a fool both financially and scientifically.

Of course traditional energy companies are investing in green energy. But they're still dragging their feet. That they're only investing 1% currently examplifies my theory on this ... a) by all rights they should be investing a shit tonne more already; b) one day in the not too distant future, they will be investing a shit tonne more. Best to get in before that time, right? That's my bet anyway, it's all a bit of a gamble.

Mog you must have some Irish blood here because you are contradicting yourself.
Their 1% far exceeds all the hippies and hippy investors combined, can you not see this ? Any green company worth investing in, they buy up. If you want to invest in green issues, buy Oil major shares. They only invest 1% because right now that’s all that’s commercially worth to them, not because they are dragging their heels youbdaft sod. If you can spot a hippy company before an oil one buys it, that will be the wisest investment - but from the sound of it you are buying the listed green shit that nobody else wants yet because it’s not making money. Hardly a wise investemetn strategy.

Really? Strange that my profits over the past half decade are through the roof.

Anyway, how about this ... you do it your way and I'll do it mine.

"Hippy company", "hippy investors" ffs. It's actually dingalings such as yourself that make it a good strategy for us "hippies".

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:06 pm

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:58 pm

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:24 pm

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:46 pm

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:32 pm

Mog, you do realise which companies own an awful lot of green tech & capacity don’t you ?
It’s oil companies like Bp who buy up projects and firms left right and centre like Lightsource, chargemaster etc. They own 70% of the worlds green tech (annoyingly can’t find the source of this ) yet spend about one percent of their budget on them. All of the oil majors are investing billions into renewables.

To be clear, I don't care if Hitler invested in them. I'm not making a political statement here. I'm (attempting, at-least) to make a wise investment. And if one is making a political statement by not investing in them, I'd suggest that person is a fool both financially and scientifically.

Of course traditional energy companies are investing in green energy. But they're still dragging their feet. That they're only investing 1% currently examplifies my theory on this ... a) by all rights they should be investing a shit tonne more already; b) one day in the not too distant future, they will be investing a shit tonne more. Best to get in before that time, right? That's my bet anyway, it's all a bit of a gamble.

Mog you must have some Irish blood here because you are contradicting yourself.
Their 1% far exceeds all the hippies and hippy investors combined, can you not see this ? Any green company worth investing in, they buy up. If you want to invest in green issues, buy Oil major shares. They only invest 1% because right now that’s all that’s commercially worth to them, not because they are dragging their heels youbdaft sod. If you can spot a hippy company before an oil one buys it, that will be the wisest investment - but from the sound of it you are buying the listed green shit that nobody else wants yet because it’s not making money. Hardly a wise investemetn strategy.

Really? Strange that my profits over the past half decade are through the roof.

Anyway, how about this ... you do it your way and I'll do it mine.

"Hippy company", "hippy investors" ffs. It's actually dingalings such as yourself that make it a good strategy for us "hippies".

Well you called oil ‘dead Horse’ so I chose to go with hippy companies to match your slang

Your definition and my definition of through the roof, are probably 2 different things tbf, happy to let you go your own way. But do any of your investments give you any income or reinvestment ?

nardol wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:04 pm made a fine call on buying a few retail banks about a year ago.

With interest rates edging up interest margins showing early signsnof coming off a decade of tightening margins retail banks set to nod up on interest.

AIB for example went from 80 cent to 2.30 today. I got in at 95 cent.

Made a horrible call last month shorting a few european indices thinking a pull back was on the cards. Still think a pull back will be happening soon its just the timing i have no idea of.

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:11 pm

nardol wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:04 pm made a fine call on buying a few retail banks about a year ago.

With interest rates edging up interest margins showing early signsnof coming off a decade of tightening margins retail banks set to nod up on interest.

AIB for example went from 80 cent to 2.30 today. I got in at 95 cent.

Made a horrible call last month shorting a few european indices thinking a pull back was on the cards. Still think a pull back will be happening soon its just the timing i have no idea of.

Nice re Aib

My best green investment is actually one tip I got from my wife last year, US listed beyond meat : got in at $76, now $132 but did go over 170

DAC_ wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:13 pm

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:11 pm

nardol wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:04 pm made a fine call on buying a few retail banks about a year ago.

With interest rates edging up interest margins showing early signsnof coming off a decade of tightening margins retail banks set to nod up on interest.

AIB for example went from 80 cent to 2.30 today. I got in at 95 cent.

Made a horrible call last month shorting a few european indices thinking a pull back was on the cards. Still think a pull back will be happening soon its just the timing i have no idea of.

Nice re Aib

My best green investment is actually one tip I got from my wife last year, US listed beyond meat : got in at $76, now $132 but did go over 170

You mean it wasn't the one I gave you Thomas Cook?

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:23 pm

DAC_ wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:13 pm

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:11 pm

nardol wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:04 pm made a fine call on buying a few retail banks about a year ago.

With interest rates edging up interest margins showing early signsnof coming off a decade of tightening margins retail banks set to nod up on interest.

AIB for example went from 80 cent to 2.30 today. I got in at 95 cent.

Made a horrible call last month shorting a few european indices thinking a pull back was on the cards. Still think a pull back will be happening soon its just the timing i have no idea of.

Nice re Aib

My best green investment is actually one tip I got from my wife last year, US listed beyond meat : got in at $76, now $132 but did go over 170

You mean it wasn't the one I gave you Thomas Cook?

I vaguely recall that, nope i avoided that one - ah well

My own turd was carillion , £2k gone on that one, an expensive lesson in not to ignore sovereign wealth funds shorting a stock, if the same country is actually a huge debtor and amazingly isn’t paying up for a billion quids worth of product its had.

Luckily I got get more than £2k a year from my oil shares that mog hates, sonwasnt too big a setback for me

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:11 pm Roblox is an interesting one. Get a kid to explain what it is if you don’t know it. Making some gains the past 48hours. Decent shout for the next few years

bimboman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:00 pm

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:23 pm

DAC_ wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:13 pm

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:11 pm

nardol wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:04 pm made a fine call on buying a few retail banks about a year ago.

With interest rates edging up interest margins showing early signsnof coming off a decade of tightening margins retail banks set to nod up on interest.

AIB for example went from 80 cent to 2.30 today. I got in at 95 cent.

Made a horrible call last month shorting a few european indices thinking a pull back was on the cards. Still think a pull back will be happening soon its just the timing i have no idea of.

Nice re Aib

My best green investment is actually one tip I got from my wife last year, US listed beyond meat : got in at $76, now $132 but did go over 170

You mean it wasn't the one I gave you Thomas Cook?

I vaguely recall that, nope i avoided that one - ah well

My own turd was carillion , £2k gone on that one, an expensive lesson in not to ignore sovereign wealth funds shorting a stock, if the same country is actually a huge debtor and amazingly isn’t paying up for a billion quids worth of product its had.

Luckily I got get more than £2k a year from my oil shares that mog hates, sonwasnt too big a setback for me

, chasing any yields means Oil co are worth investing I reckon. Well played.

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:05 am Had a chat with a financial advisor yesterday (Nothing binding, was just interested in what they had to propose).

They talked about Line of Credit investing which sounded bonkers to me.

Genuinely never heard of it and convinced it's woo

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:58 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:05 am Had a chat with a financial advisor yesterday (Nothing binding, was just interested in what they had to propose).

They talked about Line of Credit investing which sounded bonkers to me.

Genuinely never heard of it and convinced it's woo

How did you buy a house? Doubt you paid cash.

backrow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:12 pm ALl you proved mog is you don’t seem to know much about yet another topic

Fingers crossed one of my dividend paying oil companies buys one of your green turds

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:05 am Had a chat with a financial advisor yesterday (Nothing binding, was just interested in what they had to propose).

They talked about Line of Credit investing which sounded bonkers to me.

Genuinely never heard of it and convinced it's woo

backrow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:21 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:05 am Had a chat with a financial advisor yesterday (Nothing binding, was just interested in what they had to propose).

They talked about Line of Credit investing which sounded bonkers to me.

Genuinely never heard of it and convinced it's woo

Not heard of it either, is it where you invest into b2L cars and stuff for people like Mog who can’t get credit via the normal means ?

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:25 am
The UK term would be a Lombard loan

backrow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:19 am Nice rant Mog

You must admit though your track record of ‘knowing stuff’ about almost any subject , is poor - and you completely haven’t given the impression you know anything about investing on this thread, sorry.

backrow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:19 amIf you are at 102 as you say then no doubt you will have at least some listed company names or tickers or ‘in at 100, sold at 150’ type info, we can leave the yield & PE & eps & Greeks for another time.

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:38 am

backrow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:19 am Nice rant Mog

You must admit though your track record of ‘knowing stuff’ about almost any subject , is poor - and you completely haven’t given the impression you know anything about investing on this thread, sorry.

Crap. Don't confuse a bored-pile-on with being "shown wrong" about anything. In fact, if the majority of this nuthouse is against you, that's a good sign that you're onto something. I often turn out to be right in those dumb threads, and in the cases where I am not, I'm the first one to put my hand up and stand corrected.

backrow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:19 amIf you are at 102 as you say then no doubt you will have at least some listed company names or tickers or ‘in at 100, sold at 150’ type info, we can leave the yield & PE & eps & Greeks for another time.

I chimed in with an opinion. I'd be a fool to claim I know for certainty it is correct. I believe it to be. You can take or leave it but I'm not interested in having an investment-dick-measuring competition.

backrow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:45 am Then why even post on on this bread then and claim you had great successes by investing green and had done over numerous years ? That is kind of dick waving (statistically you’d lose this as well, sorry)

backrow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:45 am I must say I must have missed these threads where you’ve been proved right, sorry.

backrow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:45 am Still waiting for one of your successes, plenty of others have shown their good and bad results causes, you haven’t and have been the most shouty.

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:18 am I hold the view that the stock market is more or less gambling. Nobody really knows what they're doing, although some people make a good living from dressing up in suites and pretending they do.

One pretty safe gamble is to invest in green energy, and I have done that, and heavily.

The logic behind that is that the world economy is still largely run by a bunch of white-haried, conservative men. A lot of them don't buy into this "environmental crap". Some significant percentage don't believe in climate change or think it's all grossly exaggerated.

If you believe in science, then climate change is real, and very serious, and the world is going to have to deal with it. My stock-market bet is that whether we actually fix the problem or not, we're going to give it a good crack. We've already started down that path.

Investing in green energy now while there's still enough unscientific denialism going on in legitimate conservative financial circles so as you have not "missed the boat", seems like a very good bet. Of course to the loons that makes you a "shill" who is making money from "big green". Whatever. Leave them to their delusions and their poor investments in coal or whatever.

I've actually made enormous profits using this strategy already, although they took a good whack over the last month or two for some reason, that was nothing compared to the profit over the past few years.

backrow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:57 am

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:18 am I hold the view that the stock market is more or less gambling. Nobody really knows what they're doing, although some people make a good living from dressing up in suites and pretending they do.

One pretty safe gamble is to invest in green energy, and I have done that, and heavily.

The logic behind that is that the world economy is still largely run by a bunch of white-haried, conservative men. A lot of them don't buy into this "environmental crap". Some significant percentage don't believe in climate change or think it's all grossly exaggerated.

If you believe in science, then climate change is real, and very serious, and the world is going to have to deal with it. My stock-market bet is that whether we actually fix the problem or not, we're going to give it a good crack. We've already started down that path.

Investing in green energy now while there's still enough unscientific denialism going on in legitimate conservative financial circles so as you have not "missed the boat", seems like a very good bet. Of course to the loons that makes you a "shill" who is making money from "big green". Whatever. Leave them to their delusions and their poor investments in coal or whatever.

I've actually made enormous profits using this strategy already, although they took a good whack over the last month or two for some reason, that was nothing compared to the profit over the past few years.

So, these ‘enormous profits’ - how much roughly or as as % ? And is this not dick waving ?
And in which companies ?

backrow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:05 am I am presuming you would not have invested in Anacott Steel despite them being quite green, but surely you would have taken a punt on Bluestar as they had that NZ geothermal thingy , or CHOAM and their carbon filter tech IPO?

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:34 am

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:25 am
The UK term would be a Lombard loan

It's genuinely something I'd never heard of, hence the question

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:19 pm

MungoMan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:59 am If I've understood your point: your decision to invest is based on a belief that investment is self-evidently socially necessary and for that reason you probably won't be backing a lame horse provided you've spread your money around a bit.

My reasoning is fairly simple. It is that usually, once it becomes obvious that something is a good investment, it's too late. By the time us plebs know about it, the stocks have already been driven way up.

In this particular case, the conservative-white-haired old men who are usually responsible for that, are broadly speaking, a demography slow to accept the scientific reality of climate change, and thus also slow to accept the potential profit of investing in green stock options. Many of them are still even putting their money on the dead horse: coal and oil.

That means there is still an opportunity there to get in on a good thing while it's still relatively near the ground floor. Obviously not what it was ten or twenty years ago, but the ship has not yet sailed. So as long the unscientific sentiment regarding enviornmental protection still exists in the corridors of power, my gamble is that it's profitable to invest in green energy. In other words, put your money on the scientific consensus.

A5D5E5 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:20 am

Mog The Almighty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:19 pm

MungoMan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:59 am If I've understood your point: your decision to invest is based on a belief that investment is self-evidently socially necessary and for that reason you probably won't be backing a lame horse provided you've spread your money around a bit.

My reasoning is fairly simple. It is that usually, once it becomes obvious that something is a good investment, it's too late. By the time us plebs know about it, the stocks have already been driven way up.

In this particular case, the conservative-white-haired old men who are usually responsible for that, are broadly speaking, a demography slow to accept the scientific reality of climate change, and thus also slow to accept the potential profit of investing in green stock options. Many of them are still even putting their money on the dead horse: coal and oil.

That means there is still an opportunity there to get in on a good thing while it's still relatively near the ground floor. Obviously not what it was ten or twenty years ago, but the ship has not yet sailed. So as long the unscientific sentiment regarding enviornmental protection still exists in the corridors of power, my gamble is that it's profitable to invest in green energy. In other words, put your money on the scientific consensus.

I have no interest in getting involved in your general discussion, but there are a couple of things to mention here - the fund management / investment industry is really not dominated by conservative white haired old men - it has a very high proportion of under 30s and a significant and increasing proportion of women.

Also, environmental, social and governance factors have been massive factors for several years now and the impact of climate change is probably the #1 topic of discussion at the moment (in the UK at least - can't speak for the rest of the world).

I agree the ship hasn't sailed yet, but it is certainly loading its cargo and getting ready for the trip.

ukjim wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:50 am

backrow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:05 am CHOAM

Long term hold that one.

Spice futures and all that

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:13 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:34 am

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:25 am
The UK term would be a Lombard loan

It's genuinely something I'd never heard of, hence the question

Depending on context, is one of two things

1. You get a loan ("line of credit" secured against investments or house equity) and invest with that money. Any interest you pay on the loan is tax deductible.

2. Something like ratesetter - peer to peer lending.


1. Is the most likely.

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:58 pm

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:13 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:34 am

Zakar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:25 am
The UK term would be a Lombard loan

It's genuinely something I'd never heard of, hence the question

Depending on context, is one of two things

1. You get a loan ("line of credit" secured against investments or house equity) and invest with that money. Any interest you pay on the loan is tax deductible.

2. Something like ratesetter - peer to peer lending.


1. Is the most likely.

Definitely 1.

Cheers. Is it common here?

shanky wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:57 pm Leaving aside Mog’s ‘Stock market is gambling’ truism, I wouldn’t necessarily recommend buying individual stocks using borrowed money. Especially if you’re not skilled or interested

However, I would definitely think that using home loan equity (at current interest rates) and putting it into a managed fund is sensible. Close enough to arbitrage for the average person.

This could be as simple as withdrawing it from the offset or redraw account - even without going as far as further borrowing.

Of course, this is not financial advice, blah blah.