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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:01 pm 
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He was a pure point guard play maker. Led the league in assists almost permanently from memory. 10 time all star, hall of famer who took his side to the playoffs every single year he played.

Hardly shit. Not a show boating walking ego, just a gritty winner and team player. Every team needs one and they're hard to find in the NBA.

My team would destroy all in their wake.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:25 pm 
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Kahu wrote:
Nah, I haven't played video game basketball since NBA live 95. It peaked with NBA Jam TE but I'll always have love for Basketball Nightmare on Sega Master System

Stockton is the worst point guard on that list. Your team will be smoked by mine


Stockton has the most assists in the NBA and the most steals. He was a quiet monster on both sides of the floor.

Even Jordan admitted that he gave the winning shot to Steve Kerr in 1997 when he was supposed to take the shot, because he feared Stockton might steal the ball and win the game form it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:40 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Kahu wrote:
Nah, I haven't played video game basketball since NBA live 95. It peaked with NBA Jam TE but I'll always have love for Basketball Nightmare on Sega Master System

Stockton is the worst point guard on that list. Your team will be smoked by mine


Stockton has the most assists in the NBA and the most steals. He was a quiet monster on both sides of the floor.

Even Jordan admitted that he gave the winning shot to Steve Kerr in 1997 when he was supposed to take the shot, because he feared Stockton might steal the ball and win the game form it.


Multiple times All-Defensive as well. And this was before they legalized zone...there was no hiding back then.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:35 pm 
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I'd probably pick the same team Mog did, though Stockton could be swapped out for Payton or Miller and it'd be equally effective. TBH, I might prefer Miller cause with Jordan & Pippen you don't really need a classic point guard for ball handling and Miller would get soooo many wide open looks with Jordan/Pippen/Hakeem out there.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:06 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:

I agree. They are a contender for all time greats. But it's how they did it which greats. Don't get me wrong, it's great to see them revel in it for the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary


Extremely grating.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:30 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
I'd probably pick the same team Mog did, though Stockton could be swapped out for Payton or Miller and it'd be equally effective. TBH, I might prefer Miller cause with Jordan & Pippen you don't really need a classic point guard for ball handling and Miller would get soooo many wide open looks with Jordan/Pippen/Hakeem out there.


Fair point

I'm glad someone found a way to get Reggie in there :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:21 am 
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At the risk of sounding racist & provoking controversy, which players would make the following teams:

- best white American NBA team of all time
- best international NBA team of all time.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:34 am 
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Tehui wrote:
At the risk of sounding racist & provoking controversy, which players would make the following teams:

- best white American NBA team of all time
- best international NBA team of all time.


Would have to have a think about best white team.

Best international

C - Hakeem
PF - Dirk
SF - Giannis
SG - Manu
PG - Nash

Honorable mention to Drazen Petrovic who I reckon would have been better than Manu.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:59 am 
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My international team:

C- Hakeem Olajuwon
PF - Tim Duncan
SF - Giannis (Jay - thanks for the reminder!)
SG - Manu Ginobli
PG - Tim Parker.

Honourable mentions to Dirk and the Gasol brothers.

White American team:

C - Bill Walton
PF - Kevin McHale
SF - Larry Bird
SG - Jerry West (never seen him play, but Shaq raves about him)
PG - John Stockton

Honourable mention to the white dudes who played for the great Celtics side of the 60s. I just didn't see them play.

I reserve the right to change my mind if I've overlooked somebody. ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:10 am 
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Tehui wrote:
My international team:

C- Hakeem Olajuwon
PF - Tim Duncan
SF - Giannis (Jay - thanks for the reminder!)
SG - Manu Ginobli
PG - Tim Parker.

Honourable mentions to Dirk and the Gasol brothers.

White American team:

C - Bill Walton
PF - Kevin McHale
SF - Larry Bird
SG - Jerry West (never seen him play, but Shaq raves about him)
PG - John Stockton

Honourable mention to the white dudes who played for the great Celtics side of the 60s. I just didn't see them play.

I reserve the right to change my mind if I've overlooked somebody. ;)


Oh shit, I always forget Duncan is an overseas player. He'd be in over Dirk for me.

Good white team, I also never saw West play but given the way people talk about him...

Good call on Walton, I couldn't think of a really good white Centre other than guys I've heard about like Mikan back in the day.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:13 am 
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Gummon bro get Timmy D outta there :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:14 am 
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I was tempted to include Doncic at PG, but he's only played 1 1/2 seasons. He's looking like a HOF player, subject to staying healthy.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:10 am 
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Unfortunately the NBA doesn't take much effort to highlight its history beyond the 80s, so a lot of great old school players white and black alike have been forgotten...of course, given the way the league's demography has trended, that means an all-time white boi team (NO FAR'NERS) is going to include some names you might not be so familiar with.

My crack at it:

PG - Stockton (old heads might go with Cousy...and he wouldn't make it over these two but shout out to Mark Price for the end of bench)
SG - West (there's actually a lot of him on YouTube, go check it out, he was the real deal...Jordan's also a huge fan of his)
SF - Bird (positionally was a bit ambiguous, but you could put Rick Barry or John Havlicek here if you want to move Larry to PF)
PF - Bob Pettit (2x MVP, averaged 26 PPG and 16 RPG in his 11 year career, led the then-St. Louis Hawks to franchise's only title over the Cousy/Russell Celtics; the definition of a forgotten great, sadly)
C - Mikan (fvck it, give it to him...Dave Cowens won an MVP once, and course you got Walton, but Mikan literally forced a rule change, plus Shaq loves him)


I'm basically limiting my list to players picked on the 50th anniversary all-time Top 50 team (1996), and it pretty much goes without saying that there wouldn't have been any white American additions to that list since then.

I check in on a Pacers forum from time to time that has some awesome super-knowledgeable old heads that have been following pro basketball since the 60s...there was a thread re: redoing the all-time Top 50 and one of the top gurus had this to say (I've taken the liberty of bolding the honkies so you can look them up at your leisure):

Spoiler: show
Now knowing who we have I'm going to further break this down into three different category's. 1. mortal locks 2. probably safe 3. on the bubble.

1. MORTAL LOCKS (meaning no matter who we add these players are still going to be there

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Charles Barkley, Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, Moses Malone, George Mikan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, John Stockton, Jerry West

That's 15 mortal locks IMO

2. Probably safe (meaning that we might debate newer players but most likely these guys will stay)

Elgin Baylor, Bob Cousy, Clyde Drexler, Julius Erving, Walt Frazier, John Havlicek, Elvin Hayes, Jerry Lucas, Kevin McHale, Bob Pettit, Scottie Pippen, Willis Reed, David Robinson, Isiah Thomas, Wes Unseld, James Worthy

That's 16 probably safe players

3. On the bubble

Nate Archibald, Paul Arizin, Rick Berry, Dave Bing, Dave Cowens, Billy Cunningham, Dave DeBusschere, Patrick Ewing, George Gervin, Hal Greer, Sam Jones, Pete Maravich, Earl Monroe, Robert Parish, Dolph Schayes, Bill Sharman, Nate Thurmond, Bill Walton, Lenny Wilkins

That's 19 bubble players

Now understand I am not making the statement that the bubble players are out, I'm just saying that most likely IMO they are up for discussion. Yes even I question some of my choices of safe vs bubble as an example I would likely have Ewing and Monroe in the probably safe list but I think they can be debated.

Now what I want people to do is give me your list of who you would put in there but most importantly you need to list who you will take out. Some are going to be no brainers but let's see how the process plays out.

Since the NBA at the time allowed current players playing to be picked (Shaq most notably) I say we will let current players be picked as well.

Here are some options going forward but not limited to are LeBron James, Koby Bryant, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Durrant, Steve Nash and Steph Curry and I'm sure there are many more.


Do yourself a favor and check out Pete Maravich (edit: here's a link for you lazy plums)...wouldn't make the team as he was plagued by injuries and shitty teams but he has a highlight reel as good as anyone's. Dr. J said he was the most skilled player he ever saw.


Last edited by fonzeee on Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:22 am 
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NBA Open Court had an episode where former players picked who they thought were the best players of each decade. The former players in this discussion are Isiah Thomas, Shaq, Brent Barry, Reggie Miller, 3D, Grant Hill, Steve Smith.

Fonzee - Pistol Pete is mentioned in the discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeKn01wLKk0


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:30 am 
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Goddamnit Tehui I have to go to bed :x

Brent Barry passing over his own dad for 70s SF..."sorry dad" :lol:


Last edited by fonzeee on Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:35 am 
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It's actually funny how few white American centers there are among the greats, considering that was the poisition where you'd be most likely to find a white boi in my lifetime...I thought about Dan Issel (apparently was 4th all-time leading scorer when he retired in '85, some legend heaped praise on him but can't remember who), but he wasn't even a first ballot HoFer and evidently failed to make that Top 50 list.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:43 am 
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fonzeee wrote:
It's actually funny how few white American centers there are among the greats, considering that was the poisition where you'd be most likely to find a white boi in my lifetime...I thought about Dan Issel (apparently was 4th all-time leading scorer when he retired in '85, some legend heaped praise on him but can't remember who), but he wasn't even a first ballot HoFer and evidently failed to make that Top 50 list.


It's also interesting how most of the top international players in the NBA predominantly feature in the center position.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:58 am 
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A quick international team:

PG - Luka (I've seen enough + not much competition...ah shit forgot Nash is Canadian, he goes here for now tbf)
SG - Petrovic (probably unfair to Manu but as JCG alluded to above it likely would have been no contest if not for his tragic death)
SF - Giannis (can put him anywhere really but he fits here...shoutout to Detlef Schrempf though and my first basketball love Peja Stojakovic, as well as AK47, if, for nothing else, having the best nickname in sports)
PF - Dirk (easy one)
C - Olajuwon (ditto)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:31 am 
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mr bungle wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:

I agree. They are a contender for all time greats. But it's how they did it which greats. Don't get me wrong, it's great to see them revel in it for the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary


Extremely grating.


I disagree. The documentary was great. However it framed their achievements as underdogs, the blue collar working man vs these massive rich franchises and did it the only way they could. Now that isn't exactly a false narrative but it certainly is a glamorisation of their story, which was also "We got away with violence, overt physical aggression, rudeness and a nasty approach to success".


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:45 am 
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Tehui wrote:
My international team:

C- Hakeem Olajuwon
PF - Tim Duncan
SF - Giannis (Jay - thanks for the reminder!)
SG - Manu Ginobli
PG - Tim Parker.

Honourable mentions to Dirk and the Gasol brothers.

White American team:

C - Bill Walton
PF - Kevin McHale
SF - Larry Bird
SG - Jerry West (never seen him play, but Shaq raves about him)
PG - John Stockton

Honourable mention to the white dudes who played for the great Celtics side of the 60s. I just didn't see them play.

I reserve the right to change my mind if I've overlooked somebody. ;)



I'm not sure what your image is, but those Celtic 1960's side were as black as most teams. Bill Russell, Sam Jones, Satch Saunders, K.C. Jones where the main starters I believe and all black with Jon Havlicek as their main white starter.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:40 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:

I agree. They are a contender for all time greats. But it's how they did it which greats. Don't get me wrong, it's great to see them revel in it for the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary


Extremely grating.


I disagree. The documentary was great.


I enjoyed the Pistons documentary too. I like the team, I just dislike Bill Laimbeer.

eldanielfire wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Honourable mention to the white dudes who played for the great Celtics side of the 60s. I just didn't see them play.



I'm not sure what your image is, but those Celtic 1960's side were as black as most teams. Bill Russell, Sam Jones, Satch Saunders, K.C. Jones where the main starters I believe and all black with Jon Havlicek as their main white starter.


I told you I didn't see them play.

:P


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:07 pm 
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Tehui wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:

I agree. They are a contender for all time greats. But it's how they did it which greats. Don't get me wrong, it's great to see them revel in it for the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary


Extremely grating.


I disagree. The documentary was great.


I enjoyed the Pistons documentary too. I like the team, I just dislike Bill Laimbeer.

eldanielfire wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Honourable mention to the white dudes who played for the great Celtics side of the 60s. I just didn't see them play.



I'm not sure what your image is, but those Celtic 1960's side were as black as most teams. Bill Russell, Sam Jones, Satch Saunders, K.C. Jones where the main starters I believe and all black with Jon Havlicek as their main white starter.


I told you I didn't see them play.

:P


I know, neither did I. But I've seen photographs ;) :P


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:34 pm 
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fonzeee wrote:
PG - Luka (I've seen enough + not much competition...ah shit forgot Nash is Canadian, he goes here for now tbf)

Are you talking about Luka Dončić of the Mavericks? Because I think he's a 2/3, not point. (?), I guess he could play there though if you wanted him to.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:23 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Tehui wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:

I agree. They are a contender for all time greats. But it's how they did it which greats. Don't get me wrong, it's great to see them revel in it for the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary


Extremely grating.


I disagree. The documentary was great.


I enjoyed the Pistons documentary too. I like the team, I just dislike Bill Laimbeer.

eldanielfire wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Honourable mention to the white dudes who played for the great Celtics side of the 60s. I just didn't see them play.



I'm not sure what your image is, but those Celtic 1960's side were as black as most teams. Bill Russell, Sam Jones, Satch Saunders, K.C. Jones where the main starters I believe and all black with Jon Havlicek as their main white starter.


I told you I didn't see them play.

:P




I know, neither did I. But I've seen photographs ;) :P


Perhaps you have forgotten a Bob Cousy, Tommy Heinshon and Don Nelson?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:54 pm 
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Shrekles wrote:

Perhaps you have forgotten a Bob Cousy, Tommy Heinshon and Don Nelson?


I wasn't excluding them, I saw Bob Cousy was more of a 1950's legend and I was aware there were other white players, as well as other legendary black players.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 12:06 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
mr bungle wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:

I agree. They are a contender for all time greats. But it's how they did it which greats. Don't get me wrong, it's great to see them revel in it for the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary


Extremely grating.


I disagree.


You tried, bungle. You really did.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 4:58 am 
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A few random international NBA teams I thought up. Probably forgetting some names.

Canada
PG Nash
SG Barrett
SF Wiggins
PF Thompson
C Wennington

Aussie
PG Delly
SG Mills
SF Ingles
PF Simmons
C Bogut

Euro
PG Parker
SG Doncic
SF Giannis
PF Dirk
C Sabonis Sr

Latin America
PG Barea
SG Manu
SF Nocioni
PF Scola
C Horford


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 5:08 am 
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Bowens wrote:
A few random international NBA teams I thought up. Probably forgetting some names.

Canada
PG Nash
SG Barrett
SF Wiggins
PF Thompson
C Wennington

Aussie
PG Delly
SG Mills
SF Ingles
PF Simmons
C Bogut

Euro
PG Parker
SG Doncic
SF Giannis
PF Dirk
C Sabonis Sr

Latin America
PG Barea
SG Manu
SF Nocioni
PF Scola
C Horford


Shai Gilgous-Alexander over RJ Barrett for the Canadian team, for me. Similar stats but one is doing it in a harder conference for a winning team.

Also, KAT is also Dominican so you could move Horford to PF and chuck him in at centre.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 1:51 pm 
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A different feel to episodes 5 & 6 of the Last Dance. I enjoyed viewing behind the scenes of the Dream Team in E5. E6 was more about the price of fame - i'd hate to be famous like that. I'm too much of an introvert who enjoys my own space.

Episode 7 & 8 will surely be about MJ's father getting killed and MJ's subsequent 18 month hiatus from the game. Get the tissues ready.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 2:07 am 
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You can definitely see how it would have been exhausting and understand why mega stars like Jordan, Tendulkar in India, etc stay inside and away from the spotlight. Found it refreshing that his stance was 'I play a sport, I am not out here being an activist'.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 2:51 am 
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ElementFreak wrote:
You can definitely see how it would have been exhausting and understand why mega stars like Jordan, Tendulkar in India, etc stay inside and away from the spotlight. Found it refreshing that his stance was 'I play a sport, I am not out here being an activist'.


Agreed - Jordan is coming out of this with his reputation enhanced in my opinion. Thomas is looking very poor on the other hand.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 3:10 am 
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Shrekles wrote:
ElementFreak wrote:
You can definitely see how it would have been exhausting and understand why mega stars like Jordan, Tendulkar in India, etc stay inside and away from the spotlight. Found it refreshing that his stance was 'I play a sport, I am not out here being an activist'.


Agreed - Jordan is coming out of this with his reputation enhanced in my opinion. Thomas is looking very poor on the other hand.


I've seen criticisms of this series due to Jordan's control over what is in it. Jordan was worried it would make him look bad but perhaps some of the worst stuff has been left out or a rosier picture than the reality has been portrayed?
Whatever the case, Jordan is like a God to me and even if he was an asshole I don't care. To me he is the GOAT athlete in any sport.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 3:31 am 
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Davedj77 wrote:
Shrekles wrote:
ElementFreak wrote:
You can definitely see how it would have been exhausting and understand why mega stars like Jordan, Tendulkar in India, etc stay inside and away from the spotlight. Found it refreshing that his stance was 'I play a sport, I am not out here being an activist'.


Agreed - Jordan is coming out of this with his reputation enhanced in my opinion. Thomas is looking very poor on the other hand.


I've seen criticisms of this series due to Jordan's control over what is in it. Jordan was worried it would make him look bad but perhaps some of the worst stuff has been left out or a rosier picture than the reality has been portrayed?
Whatever the case, Jordan is like a God to me and even if he was an asshole I don't care. To me he is the GOAT athlete in any sport.


One of the previews I saw said that Jordan says later in the series 'people might not like who I was due to the way I behaved' or words to that effect. I have also read Halberstem's 'Playing for keeps: Michael Jordan and world he made' which was released just after he retired - that has a deal of the nastiness of Jordan in it. However, on viewing this series and the sort of shit he had to put up with 24/7 I am surprised he was not a lot worse - his explanations of his actions around Thomas and Kukoc for example stand the test of time whereas Thomas is looking like a back tracking weasel. In episode five Jordans says 'I respect Isaiah as a basketball player, he is the second best PG behind Magic, but he hates him as a person.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 4:46 am 
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Jordan was a pretty big villain in Cleveland over the years (knocked the Cavs out of the playoffs four times including this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p5WUOnTxwPw x( ) but I think he comes across well in the series. Straightforward and cared more about winning than fame or any other bullshit.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 6:10 am 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:
fonzeee wrote:
PG - Luka (I've seen enough + not much competition...ah shit forgot Nash is Canadian, he goes here for now tbf)

Are you talking about Luka Dončić of the Mavericks? Because I think he's a 2/3, not point. (?), I guess he could play there though if you wanted him to.

:?:

Doncic is absolutely a point guard. He plays point every game for the Mavs

He's a big boy and clearly versatile but he is undoubtedly the Mav's PG


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 7:04 am 
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Shrekles wrote:
Davedj77 wrote:
Shrekles wrote:
ElementFreak wrote:
You can definitely see how it would have been exhausting and understand why mega stars like Jordan, Tendulkar in India, etc stay inside and away from the spotlight. Found it refreshing that his stance was 'I play a sport, I am not out here being an activist'.


Agreed - Jordan is coming out of this with his reputation enhanced in my opinion. Thomas is looking very poor on the other hand.


I've seen criticisms of this series due to Jordan's control over what is in it. Jordan was worried it would make him look bad but perhaps some of the worst stuff has been left out or a rosier picture than the reality has been portrayed?
Whatever the case, Jordan is like a God to me and even if he was an asshole I don't care. To me he is the GOAT athlete in any sport.


One of the previews I saw said that Jordan says later in the series 'people might not like who I was due to the way I behaved' or words to that effect. I have also read Halberstem's 'Playing for keeps: Michael Jordan and world he made' which was released just after he retired - that has a deal of the nastiness of Jordan in it. However, on viewing this series and the sort of shit he had to put up with 24/7 I am surprised he was not a lot worse - his explanations of his actions around Thomas and Kukoc for example stand the test of time whereas Thomas is looking like a back tracking weasel. In episode five Jordans says 'I respect Isaiah as a basketball player, he is the second best PG behind Magic, but he hates him as a person.


The director of the documentary series said that Jordan didn't ask him to change anything (i.e. sanitise) in the documentary. I've pasted the link. However, the director did say that MJ recommended that he include Charles Oakley's trade in episode 2 though to strengthen the narrative of the moves the Bulls made in the late 80s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdxJ7XjQSMg


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 3:27 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Tehui wrote:
My international team:

C- Hakeem Olajuwon
PF - Tim Duncan
SF - Giannis (Jay - thanks for the reminder!)
SG - Manu Ginobli
PG - Tim Parker.

Honourable mentions to Dirk and the Gasol brothers.

White American team:

C - Bill Walton
PF - Kevin McHale
SF - Larry Bird
SG - Jerry West (never seen him play, but Shaq raves about him)
PG - John Stockton

Honourable mention to the white dudes who played for the great Celtics side of the 60s. I just didn't see them play.

I reserve the right to change my mind if I've overlooked somebody. ;)


Oh shit, I always forget Duncan is an overseas player. He'd be in over Dirk for me.

Good white team, I also never saw West play but given the way people talk about him...

Good call on Walton, I couldn't think of a really good white Centre other than guys I've heard about like Mikan back in the day.


Walton would've been an all-time great if it wasn't for his body betraying him all the time.

Mikan played in an era where the basketball was below the rim. When the game changed he struggled with it.

No love for Rick Barry?


Last edited by Flyin Ryan on Wed May 06, 2020 3:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 3:30 am 
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Tehui wrote:
fonzeee wrote:
It's actually funny how few white American centers there are among the greats, considering that was the poisition where you'd be most likely to find a white boi in my lifetime...I thought about Dan Issel (apparently was 4th all-time leading scorer when he retired in '85, some legend heaped praise on him but can't remember who), but he wasn't even a first ballot HoFer and evidently failed to make that Top 50 list.


It's also interesting how most of the top international players in the NBA predominantly feature in the center position.


Well talent requirements 1 through 17 for the center position is "be tall". There are some countries with China being the prime example where their front court is okay to solid because they bred tall players, but the guards are complete shit.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 5:05 am 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
Tehui wrote:
fonzeee wrote:
It's actually funny how few white American centers there are among the greats, considering that was the poisition where you'd be most likely to find a white boi in my lifetime...I thought about Dan Issel (apparently was 4th all-time leading scorer when he retired in '85, some legend heaped praise on him but can't remember who), but he wasn't even a first ballot HoFer and evidently failed to make that Top 50 list.


It's also interesting how most of the top international players in the NBA predominantly feature in the center position.


Well talent requirements 1 through 17 for the center position is "be tall". There are some countries with China being the prime example where their front court is okay to solid because they bred tall players, but the guards are complete shit.


There have been a number of quality 'white' centers (Dolph Schayes, Mark Eaton, Jack Sikma, Dave Cowens, Gasol, Sabonis, Smits et al) but they have all lacked in athleticism when compared to the greats like: Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jaabar, Ewing, Olajuwon and O'Neal


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 5:45 am 
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Shrekles wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote:
Tehui wrote:
fonzeee wrote:
It's actually funny how few white American centers there are among the greats, considering that was the poisition where you'd be most likely to find a white boi in my lifetime...I thought about Dan Issel (apparently was 4th all-time leading scorer when he retired in '85, some legend heaped praise on him but can't remember who), but he wasn't even a first ballot HoFer and evidently failed to make that Top 50 list.


It's also interesting how most of the top international players in the NBA predominantly feature in the center position.


Well talent requirements 1 through 17 for the center position is "be tall". There are some countries with China being the prime example where their front court is okay to solid because they bred tall players, but the guards are complete shit.


There have been a number of quality 'white' centers (Dolph Schayes, Mark Eaton, Jack Sikma, Dave Cowens, Gasol, Sabonis, Smits et al) but they have all lacked in athleticism when compared to the greats like: Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jaabar, Ewing, Olajuwon and O'Neal


Dave Cowens was known to be very athletic. Though granted he's the best of those named there and the only one of those that would probably qualify as an all-time great.

There have been other All-Star level tall white guys who were great athletes (Bobby Jones and Tom Chambers come to mind), but they were all power forwards and not really greats, though Jones got into the HoF last year after like 30 years.

(If you count far'ners, Sabonis Sr. was a freak as well, before the commies ruined him)


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