UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

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Sandstorm
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UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Sandstorm »

Good news, although that "new M25 tunnel" sounds ominous for drivers over the next 5 years it'll take to complete it. :uhoh:

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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Plato'sCave »

Harmondsworth compensation package is pretty good.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by camroc1 »

The motorway tunnel will only affect the existing M25 at the tie-ins, and that will probably be only a week either end if they do it properly.

They've a lot of property to purchase, and will have to go down the compulsory purchase route against people who won't want to sell. Some of them will go to court as will some of the objectors, so there'll be a long hiatus before construction.

Bar building a new airport south of Birmingham, or investing in a proper second runway for Manchester, probably the correct decision.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Sandstorm »

Are they planning to build another Terminal beside the 3rd runway or will the planes have to taxi for 20 minutes back to the main site?
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Sandstorm »

camroc1 wrote:The motorway tunnel will only affect the existing M25 at the tie-ins, and that will probably be only a week either end if they do it properly.
Well we're fugged then. :(
They've a lot of property to purchase, and will have to go down the compulsory purchase route against people who won't want to sell. Some of them will go to court as will some of the objectors, so there'll be a long hiatus before construction.

Bar building a new airport south of Birmingham, or investing in a proper second runway for Manchester, probably the correct decision.
Gatwick will also get another runway before those Northern oiks. :nod:
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by tabascoboy »

And we can look forward to Boris Johnson being run over by bulldozers, if he is actually good with his promise.

Not really sure that funnelling even more passenger traffic from other parts of the country into/out of Heathrow is really a long term solution.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by danny_fitz »

Sandstorm wrote:Are they planning to build another Terminal beside the 3rd runway or will the planes have to taxi for 20 minutes back to the main site?
Plans I have seen involve a whole new terminal complex on the other side of the existing Terminal 5.

With any luck a few hundred protesting middle class crusties will be added to the foundations.

Also, I wonder if Zac Goldsmith will resign and run as an independent.
Last edited by danny_fitz on Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Saint »

It's going to be 5+ years before they break ground on this at this rate.

12-18 months of consultation
Commons vote
The inevitable Judicial review due to local protests; probably taking over another hotel for 3-4 years and using the swimming pool as the file storage

Between T5 and this, we are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to airport expansion
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by camroc1 »

A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by danny_fitz »

Saint wrote:It's going to be 5+ years before they break ground on this at this rate.

12-18 months of consultation
Commons vote
The inevitable Judicial review due to local protests; probably taking over another hotel for 3-4 years and using the swimming pool as the file storage

Between T5 and this, we are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to airport expansion
Don't forget the snails, there is always a rare endangered snail that holds up these kind of infrastructure projects.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by tc27 »

Zac Goldsmith gooooone
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by camroc1 »

Sandstorm wrote:
camroc1 wrote:The motorway tunnel will only affect the existing M25 at the tie-ins, and that will probably be only a week either end if they do it properly.
Well we're fugged then. :(
They've a lot of property to purchase, and will have to go down the compulsory purchase route against people who won't want to sell. Some of them will go to court as will some of the objectors, so there'll be a long hiatus before construction.

Bar building a new airport south of Birmingham, or investing in a proper second runway for Manchester, probably the correct decision.
Gatwick will also get another runway before those Northern oiks. :nod:
Probably, but it would make more sense to serve that portion of the UK population that lives north of Watford Gap with their own hub airport. As it stands Dublin is becoming a hub for TA travellers from the north of England and Scotland, which whilst great for Dublin is actually money leaving the UK economy.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Saint »

danny_fitz wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:Are they planning to build another Terminal beside the 3rd runway or will the planes have to taxi for 20 minutes back to the main site?
Plans I have seen involve a whole new terminal complex on the other side of the existing Terminal 5.

With any luck a few hundred protesting middle class crusties will be added to the foundations.

Also, I wonder if Zac Goldsmith will resign and run as an independent.
They're talking about T6, an addition T5 hub, and a T2 hub.

T4 would be the only terminal with no quick access to the new runway, and T6 would have no quick access to the South runway
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Saint »

camroc1 wrote:A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.
It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by danny_fitz »

tc27 wrote:Zac Goldsmith gooooone
by-election in Richmond Upon Thames then, I reckon he could probably win back his seat as an independent. He is quite well liked in the borough.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by danny_fitz »

It probably would have been cheaper to independently develop a commercial VTOL passenger aircraft then what the total cost of this expansion will end up being.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by TB63 »

They should have used Greenham Common..
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by RoseGarden »

Saint wrote:It's going to be 5+ years before they break ground on this at this rate.

12-18 months of consultation
Commons vote
The inevitable Judicial review due to local protests; probably taking over another hotel for 3-4 years and using the swimming pool as the file storage

Between T5 and this, we are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to airport expansion
Way more than 5 years.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Rugby2023 »

RoseGarden wrote:
Saint wrote:It's going to be 5+ years before they break ground on this at this rate.

12-18 months of consultation
Commons vote
The inevitable Judicial review due to local protests; probably taking over another hotel for 3-4 years and using the swimming pool as the file storage

Between T5 and this, we are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to airport expansion
Way more than 5 years.
Time flies (pun intended) :)
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Azlan Roar »

tabascoboy wrote:And we can look forward to Boris Johnson being run over by bulldozers, if he is actually good with his promise.
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Post by Lobby »

Saint wrote:It's going to be 5+ years before they break ground on this at this rate.

12-18 months of consultation
Commons vote
The inevitable Judicial review due to local protests; probably taking over another hotel for 3-4 years and using the swimming pool as the file storage

Between T5 and this, we are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to airport expansion
Don't forget the Trustafarians protesting on behalf of Black Lives Matter.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Rugby2023 »

Azlan Roar wrote:
tabascoboy wrote:And we can look forward to Boris Johnson being run over by bulldozers, if he is actually good with his promise.
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:lol:
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Petros »

estimated cost of transport alterations is waaay above £8 m Ferrovial are not offering much of a contribution
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Glaston »

They just killed the small regional airports .
They were dying anyway I suppose.

Only flights to Rennes in the winter are from freaking Southend, I live in Somerset. :?
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Ramming Speed »

Saint wrote:
camroc1 wrote:A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.
It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this
They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.
Last edited by Ramming Speed on Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

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Saint wrote:
camroc1 wrote:A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.
It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this
I'd love to see their rate of return calculations. At the end of the day, the passenger will pay, I suppose, or choose to hub somewhere else if Heathrow prices rise too much.

Not comparing like with like I know, but the second runway at Dublin, commencing on site Spring 2017 is budgeted at € 320m. It does beg the question would a properly separated second runway at Manchester make a lot more economic sense.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by camroc1 »

Ramming Speed wrote:
Saint wrote:
camroc1 wrote:A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.
It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this
They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.
So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by merry! »

camroc1 wrote:
Ramming Speed wrote:
Saint wrote:
camroc1 wrote:A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.
It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this
They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.
So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.
:lol:

and folk wonder why we're leaving..
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Post by camroc1 »

I wouldn't fudge around with the EU on anything air travel related Merry, in case they push the UKs non membership of Euro open skies on Brexit.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Saint »

camroc1 wrote:
Ramming Speed wrote:
Saint wrote:
camroc1 wrote:A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.
It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this
They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.
So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.
Not sure why the transport links really should be part of their purview TBH. They are paying for their cost of contruction, including all the compulsory purchase stuff.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by theo »

danny_fitz wrote:
tc27 wrote:Zac Goldsmith gooooone
by-election in Richmond Upon Thames then, I reckon he could probably win back his seat as an independent. He is quite well liked in the borough.
Although the borough voted 73% to Remain and he is an outer. He might struggle. However there is a very little competition as Susan Kramer is no longer running for the LD's and Labour are laughed at.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by merry! »

camroc1 wrote:I wouldn't f**k around with the EU on anything air travel related Merry, in case they push the UKs non membership of Euro open skies on Brexit.
as long as they leave the leeds/schiphol hopper, as I prefer to connect from there if I can.

heathrow's a dump and they're so fecking rude.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Sandstorm »

TB63 wrote:They should have used Greenham Common..
Watch it buster! :x
Actually the West is still waiting for the long-proposed Reading to Heathrow direct train link.

Me...I'm thinking bigger. Forget noisy, dirty jets, I want lots of these instead:

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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Phredd »

Why didn't they choose the longer northern runway option? Cheaper to build, a lot less time to build, fewer residential properties to destroy.

In the meantime Gatwick has private funding to fully fund a new runway, and there is no reason why London couldn't have 2 hub airports.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by theo »

camroc1 wrote:
Ramming Speed wrote:
Saint wrote:
camroc1 wrote:A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.
It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this
They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.
So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.
The Government are stumping up for the transport links, not the airport works. I'd suggest spending on publically owned transport infrastructure is outside of EU regs.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Lobby »

theo wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:
tc27 wrote:Zac Goldsmith gooooone
by-election in Richmond Upon Thames then, I reckon he could probably win back his seat as an independent. He is quite well liked in the borough.
Although the borough voted 73% to Remain and he is an outer. He might struggle. However there is a very little competition as Susan Kramer is no longer running for the LD's and Labour are laughed at.
I expect the Lib Dems will try very hard to win this back. It used to be an LD seat, was strongly in favour of remaining in the EU, and the right wing vote is likely to be split between Goldsmith and whoever takes over as the Tory candidate. If the LDs pushes the remain and anti-Heathrow agenda strongly, it could be a good win for them.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by camroc1 »

Saint wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Ramming Speed wrote:
Saint wrote:
camroc1 wrote:A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.
It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this
They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.
So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.
Not sure why the transport links really should be part of their purview TBH. They are paying for their cost of contruction, including all the compulsory purchase stuff.
All the land acquisition etc ? And the M25 tunnel cost ?

If so, fine. As I said, it's the passenger who pays the cost in the end.
Last edited by camroc1 on Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Saint »

Phredd wrote:Why didn't they choose the longer northern runway option? Cheaper to build, a lot less time to build, fewer residential properties to destroy.

In the meantime Gatwick has private funding to fully fund a new runway, and there is no reason why London couldn't have 2 hub airports.
Gatwick's f**king miles outside of London. It's in an awful location
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Post by theo »

Lobby wrote:
theo wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:
tc27 wrote:Zac Goldsmith gooooone
by-election in Richmond Upon Thames then, I reckon he could probably win back his seat as an independent. He is quite well liked in the borough.
Although the borough voted 73% to Remain and he is an outer. He might struggle. However there is a very little competition as Susan Kramer is no longer running for the LD's and Labour are laughed at.
I expect the Lib Dems will try very hard to win this back. It used to be an LD seat, was strongly in favour of remaining in the EU, and the right wing vote is likely to be split between Goldsmith and whoever takes over as the Tory candidate. If the LDs pushes the remain and anti-Heathrow agenda strongly, it could be a good win for them.
No point pushing the anti-Heathrow stuff. It's a done deal and most in the borough are fine with it as it means the air traffic shifts further north, away from the constituency (we get the south runway traffic only).

I agree the Tory vote could split though I expect most will go with an anti Brexit vote and go LD's. That's probably what I will do.
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Re: UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

Post by Saint »

camroc1 wrote:
Saint wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Ramming Speed wrote:
Saint wrote:
It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this
They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.
So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.
Not sure why the transport links really should be part of their purview TBH. They are paying for their cost of contruction, including all the compulsory purchase stuff.
All the land acquisition etc ? And the M25 tunnel cost ?
Heathrow's costs include the land acquisition. And I have yet to see a cost for the M25 tunnel that isn't just part of a bigger bundle of transport enhancements that frankly are long overdue anyway.
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