UK Airport Expansion Report chooses......Heathrow

[Sandstorm]

Good news, although that "new M25 tunnel" sounds ominous for drivers over the next 5 years it'll take to complete it.

[Plato'sCave]

Harmondsworth compensation package is pretty good.

[camroc1]

The motorway tunnel will only affect the existing M25 at the tie-ins, and that will probably be only a week either end if they do it properly.

They've a lot of property to purchase, and will have to go down the compulsory purchase route against people who won't want to sell. Some of them will go to court as will some of the objectors, so there'll be a long hiatus before construction.

Bar building a new airport south of Birmingham, or investing in a proper second runway for Manchester, probably the correct decision.

[Sandstorm]

Are they planning to build another Terminal beside the 3rd runway or will the planes have to taxi for 20 minutes back to the main site?

[Sandstorm]

The motorway tunnel will only affect the existing M25 at the tie-ins, and that will probably be only a week either end if they do it properly.

Well we're fugged then.

They've a lot of property to purchase, and will have to go down the compulsory purchase route against people who won't want to sell. Some of them will go to court as will some of the objectors, so there'll be a long hiatus before construction.

Bar building a new airport south of Birmingham, or investing in a proper second runway for Manchester, probably the correct decision.

Gatwick will also get another runway before those Northern oiks.

[tabascoboy]

And we can look forward to Boris Johnson being run over by bulldozers, if he is actually good with his promise.

Not really sure that funnelling even more passenger traffic from other parts of the country into/out of Heathrow is really a long term solution.

[danny_fitz]

Are they planning to build another Terminal beside the 3rd runway or will the planes have to taxi for 20 minutes back to the main site?

Plans I have seen involve a whole new terminal complex on the other side of the existing Terminal 5.

With any luck a few hundred protesting middle class crusties will be added to the foundations.

Also, I wonder if Zac Goldsmith will resign and run as an independent.

[Saint]

It's going to be 5+ years before they break ground on this at this rate.

12-18 months of consultation
Commons vote
The inevitable Judicial review due to local protests; probably taking over another hotel for 3-4 years and using the swimming pool as the file storage

Between T5 and this, we are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to airport expansion

[camroc1]

A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.

[danny_fitz]

It's going to be 5+ years before they break ground on this at this rate.

12-18 months of consultation
Commons vote
The inevitable Judicial review due to local protests; probably taking over another hotel for 3-4 years and using the swimming pool as the file storage

Between T5 and this, we are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to airport expansion

Don't forget the snails, there is always a rare endangered snail that holds up these kind of infrastructure projects.

[tc27]

Zac Goldsmith gooooone

[camroc1]

The motorway tunnel will only affect the existing M25 at the tie-ins, and that will probably be only a week either end if they do it properly.

Well we're fugged then.

They've a lot of property to purchase, and will have to go down the compulsory purchase route against people who won't want to sell. Some of them will go to court as will some of the objectors, so there'll be a long hiatus before construction.

Bar building a new airport south of Birmingham, or investing in a proper second runway for Manchester, probably the correct decision.

Gatwick will also get another runway before those Northern oiks.

Probably, but it would make more sense to serve that portion of the UK population that lives north of Watford Gap with their own hub airport. As it stands Dublin is becoming a hub for TA travellers from the north of England and Scotland, which whilst great for Dublin is actually money leaving the UK economy.

[Saint]

Are they planning to build another Terminal beside the 3rd runway or will the planes have to taxi for 20 minutes back to the main site?

Plans I have seen involve a whole new terminal complex on the other side of the existing Terminal 5.

With any luck a few hundred protesting middle class crusties will be added to the foundations.

Also, I wonder if Zac Goldsmith will resign and run as an independent.

They're talking about T6, an addition T5 hub, and a T2 hub.

T4 would be the only terminal with no quick access to the new runway, and T6 would have no quick access to the South runway

[Saint]

A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.

It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this

[danny_fitz]

Zac Goldsmith gooooone

by-election in Richmond Upon Thames then, I reckon he could probably win back his seat as an independent. He is quite well liked in the borough.

[danny_fitz]

It probably would have been cheaper to independently develop a commercial VTOL passenger aircraft then what the total cost of this expansion will end up being.

[TB63]

They should have used Greenham Common..

[RoseGarden]

It's going to be 5+ years before they break ground on this at this rate.

12-18 months of consultation
Commons vote
The inevitable Judicial review due to local protests; probably taking over another hotel for 3-4 years and using the swimming pool as the file storage

Between T5 and this, we are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to airport expansion

Way more than 5 years.

[Rugby2023]

It's going to be 5+ years before they break ground on this at this rate.

12-18 months of consultation
Commons vote
The inevitable Judicial review due to local protests; probably taking over another hotel for 3-4 years and using the swimming pool as the file storage

Between T5 and this, we are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to airport expansion

Way more than 5 years.

Time flies (pun intended)

[Azlan Roar]

And we can look forward to Boris Johnson being run over by bulldozers, if he is actually good with his promise.

[Lobby]

It's going to be 5+ years before they break ground on this at this rate.

12-18 months of consultation
Commons vote
The inevitable Judicial review due to local protests; probably taking over another hotel for 3-4 years and using the swimming pool as the file storage

Between T5 and this, we are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to airport expansion

Don't forget the Trustafarians protesting on behalf of Black Lives Matter.

[Rugby2023]

And we can look forward to Boris Johnson being run over by bulldozers, if he is actually good with his promise.

[Petros]

estimated cost of transport alterations is waaay above £8 m Ferrovial are not offering much of a contribution

[Glaston]

They just killed the small regional airports .
They were dying anyway I suppose.

Only flights to Rennes in the winter are from freaking Southend, I live in Somerset.

[Ramming Speed]

A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.

It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this

They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.

[camroc1]

A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.

It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this

I'd love to see their rate of return calculations. At the end of the day, the passenger will pay, I suppose, or choose to hub somewhere else if Heathrow prices rise too much.

Not comparing like with like I know, but the second runway at Dublin, commencing on site Spring 2017 is budgeted at € 320m. It does beg the question would a properly separated second runway at Manchester make a lot more economic sense.

[camroc1]

A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.

It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this

They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.

So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.

[merry!]

A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.

It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this

They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.

So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.

and folk wonder why we're leaving..

[camroc1]

I wouldn't fudge around with the EU on anything air travel related Merry, in case they push the UKs non membership of Euro open skies on Brexit.

[Saint]

A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.

It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this

They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.

So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.

Not sure why the transport links really should be part of their purview TBH. They are paying for their cost of contruction, including all the compulsory purchase stuff.

[theo]

Zac Goldsmith gooooone

by-election in Richmond Upon Thames then, I reckon he could probably win back his seat as an independent. He is quite well liked in the borough.

Although the borough voted 73% to Remain and he is an outer. He might struggle. However there is a very little competition as Susan Kramer is no longer running for the LD's and Labour are laughed at.

[merry!]

I wouldn't f**k around with the EU on anything air travel related Merry, in case they push the UKs non membership of Euro open skies on Brexit.

as long as they leave the leeds/schiphol hopper, as I prefer to connect from there if I can.

heathrow's a dump and they're so fecking rude.

[Sandstorm]

They should have used Greenham Common..

Watch it buster!
Actually the West is still waiting for the long-proposed Reading to Heathrow direct train link.

Me...I'm thinking bigger. Forget noisy, dirty jets, I want lots of these instead:

[Phredd]

Why didn't they choose the longer northern runway option? Cheaper to build, a lot less time to build, fewer residential properties to destroy.

In the meantime Gatwick has private funding to fully fund a new runway, and there is no reason why London couldn't have 2 hub airports.

[theo]

A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.

It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this

They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.

So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.

The Government are stumping up for the transport links, not the airport works. I'd suggest spending on publically owned transport infrastructure is outside of EU regs.

[Lobby]

Zac Goldsmith gooooone

by-election in Richmond Upon Thames then, I reckon he could probably win back his seat as an independent. He is quite well liked in the borough.

Although the borough voted 73% to Remain and he is an outer. He might struggle. However there is a very little competition as Susan Kramer is no longer running for the LD's and Labour are laughed at.

I expect the Lib Dems will try very hard to win this back. It used to be an LD seat, was strongly in favour of remaining in the EU, and the right wing vote is likely to be split between Goldsmith and whoever takes over as the Tory candidate. If the LDs pushes the remain and anti-Heathrow agenda strongly, it could be a good win for them.

[camroc1]

A question for any Brits in the know.

Heathrow is privately owned by Ferrovial/BAA. Are they making the £ 18bn (or whatever) investment themselves ? Or is it UK government money ? And will Heathrow lease the development from the UK government ? Or get to own the development on the chirpy chirpy cheap cheap.

One of my problems with the UK mo of privatisation of state assets, is that they sold the actual infrastructure, instead of just privatising operation and management whilst keeping ownership of the infrastructure itself in state hands.

It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this

They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.

So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.

Not sure why the transport links really should be part of their purview TBH. They are paying for their cost of contruction, including all the compulsory purchase stuff.

All the land acquisition etc ? And the M25 tunnel cost ?

If so, fine. As I said, it's the passenger who pays the cost in the end.

[Saint]

Why didn't they choose the longer northern runway option? Cheaper to build, a lot less time to build, fewer residential properties to destroy.

In the meantime Gatwick has private funding to fully fund a new runway, and there is no reason why London couldn't have 2 hub airports.

Gatwick's f**king miles outside of London. It's in an awful location

[theo]

Zac Goldsmith gooooone

by-election in Richmond Upon Thames then, I reckon he could probably win back his seat as an independent. He is quite well liked in the borough.

Although the borough voted 73% to Remain and he is an outer. He might struggle. However there is a very little competition as Susan Kramer is no longer running for the LD's and Labour are laughed at.

I expect the Lib Dems will try very hard to win this back. It used to be an LD seat, was strongly in favour of remaining in the EU, and the right wing vote is likely to be split between Goldsmith and whoever takes over as the Tory candidate. If the LDs pushes the remain and anti-Heathrow agenda strongly, it could be a good win for them.

No point pushing the anti-Heathrow stuff. It's a done deal and most in the borough are fine with it as it means the air traffic shifts further north, away from the constituency (we get the south runway traffic only).

I agree the Tory vote could split though I expect most will go with an anti Brexit vote and go LD's. That's probably what I will do.

[Saint]

It's up to BAA/Ferrovial to fund this

They've offered to chip in £1bn towards the £10-20bn cost of the necessary transport links. They've paid £32m in corporation tax and £486m in dividends year-to-date. Cnuts.

So it's essentially government funding for a private company. Are airports exempt from EU regulations ? If not, this decision will have to go to Madame Vestager for approval.

Not sure why the transport links really should be part of their purview TBH. They are paying for their cost of contruction, including all the compulsory purchase stuff.

All the land acquisition etc ? And the M25 tunnel cost ?

Heathrow's costs include the land acquisition. And I have yet to see a cost for the M25 tunnel that isn't just part of a bigger bundle of transport enhancements that frankly are long overdue anyway.