Americanisms in UK English

All things Rugby
Gwenno
Posts: 7870
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Americanisms in UK English

Post by Gwenno »

Standard friday PM subject before we get on to drink, arse wiping, and Rugby. This is an observation, not a complaint. Language change is inevitable, I know.
When I was 17 I filled IN a form for a DRIVING licence, and when asked if I'd got it I replied, 'Yes, I have' whereas I have heard 17 year olds today in a similar situation say 'filled OUT, DRIVER'S licence, and would reply to the question 'Yes, I DO'
I've always assumed that these are Americanisms, but am prepared for someone to show me where Shakespear used a similar construction - difficult as there were no cars then, i know.
User avatar
Chuckles1188
Posts: 40610
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:54 am
Location: Joint No. 3 to Cyprus

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Generally speaking American English is closer to the form of English spoken in Britain during the 15th-17th centuries than modern British English is. The reason their version of the language sounds different to ours is that it has mutated less, not more. The classic example is aluminum/aluminium. When discovered it was named aluminum by its discoverer, but was then altered to be aluminium later because it fit better with the rest of the elements in its column of the periodic table. Aluminum is the older version, aluminium newer
User avatar
Gavin Duffy
Posts: 15951
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Image
pandion
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:12 pm

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by pandion »

But
User avatar
message #2527204
Posts: 12853
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Ultracrepidaria

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by message #2527204 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:Generally speaking American English is closer to the form of English spoken in Britain during the 15th-17th centuries than modern British English is. The reason their version of the language sounds different to ours is that it has mutated less, not more. The classic example is aluminum/aluminium. When discovered it was named aluminum by its discoverer, but was then altered to be aluminium later because it fit better with the rest of the elements in its column of the periodic table. Aluminum is the older version, aluminium newer
bollocks.
there were a dozen '-iums' discovered before aluminium
Gwenno
Posts: 7870
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Gwenno »

message #2527204 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Generally speaking American English is closer to the form of English spoken in Britain during the 15th-17th centuries than modern British English is. The reason their version of the language sounds different to ours is that it has mutated less, not more. The classic example is aluminum/aluminium. When discovered it was named aluminum by its discoverer, but was then altered to be aluminium later because it fit better with the rest of the elements in its column of the periodic table. Aluminum is the older version, aluminium newer
bollocks.
there were a dozen '-iums' discovered before aluminium
The Aluminum statement is correct, so I've heard too.
User avatar
message #2527204
Posts: 12853
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Ultracrepidaria

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by message #2527204 »

message #2527204 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Generally speaking American English is closer to the form of English spoken in Britain during the 15th-17th centuries than modern British English is. The reason their version of the language sounds different to ours is that it has mutated less, not more. The classic example is aluminum/aluminium. When discovered it was named aluminum by its discoverer, but was then altered to be aluminium later because it fit better with the rest of the elements in its column of the periodic table. Aluminum is the older version, aluminium newer
bollocks.
there were a dozen '-iums' discovered before aluminium
*The really annoying ones are that sloth has now become slarth, and haiti is now hatey
User avatar
message #2527204
Posts: 12853
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Ultracrepidaria

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by message #2527204 »

Gwenno wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Generally speaking American English is closer to the form of English spoken in Britain during the 15th-17th centuries than modern British English is. The reason their version of the language sounds different to ours is that it has mutated less, not more. The classic example is aluminum/aluminium. When discovered it was named aluminum by its discoverer, but was then altered to be aluminium later because it fit better with the rest of the elements in its column of the periodic table. Aluminum is the older version, aluminium newer
bollocks.
there were a dozen '-iums' discovered before aluminium
The Aluminum statement is correct, so I've heard too.
The power of the internet
User avatar
Gavin Duffy
Posts: 15951
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Controversy turning into controvussy in the uk is another one.
User avatar
Chuckles1188
Posts: 40610
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:54 am
Location: Joint No. 3 to Cyprus

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Chuckles1188 »

message #2527204 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Generally speaking American English is closer to the form of English spoken in Britain during the 15th-17th centuries than modern British English is. The reason their version of the language sounds different to ours is that it has mutated less, not more. The classic example is aluminum/aluminium. When discovered it was named aluminum by its discoverer, but was then altered to be aluminium later because it fit better with the rest of the elements in its column of the periodic table. Aluminum is the older version, aluminium newer
bollocks.
there were a dozen '-iums' discovered before aluminium
And my post did not contradict that. But Humphrey Davey named it "aluminum" several decades before Mendeleev devised the periodic table, and it was after the table was devised that aluminum was renamed aluminium in light of where it lay in said table.


Anyway the point is that you can't prove something is valid British English by having it appear in Shakespeare. Prior to the development of the "talkies" and until you hit Middle English, the further back you go the more like American English you find things become.
User avatar
Chuckles1188
Posts: 40610
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:54 am
Location: Joint No. 3 to Cyprus

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Gavin Duffy wrote:Controversy turning into controvussy in the uk is another one.
"Shedule" (the correct pronunciation) turning into "skedule", and "wroth" turning into "rath" are the two I keep bumping into most often
User avatar
Bobless
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Bobless »

Chuckles1188 wrote:Generally speaking American English is closer to the form of English spoken in Britain during the 15th-17th centuries than modern British English is. The reason their version of the language sounds different to ours is that it has mutated less, not more. The classic example is aluminum/aluminium. When discovered it was named aluminum by its discoverer, but was then altered to be aluminium later because it fit better with the rest of the elements in its column of the periodic table. Aluminum is the older version, aluminium newer
Originally was called Alumium rather than Aluminum when first discovered.

Aluminium and Aluminum were actually used almost concurrently (within same year) and given that the element was first discovered in early 19th century has nothing to do with whether or not American English is closer to 16th century English or if it has mutated more.
User avatar
message #2527204
Posts: 12853
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Ultracrepidaria

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by message #2527204 »

I british english it's normal to hear allaminium now, anyway.
User avatar
Chuckles1188
Posts: 40610
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:54 am
Location: Joint No. 3 to Cyprus

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Bobless wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Generally speaking American English is closer to the form of English spoken in Britain during the 15th-17th centuries than modern British English is. The reason their version of the language sounds different to ours is that it has mutated less, not more. The classic example is aluminum/aluminium. When discovered it was named aluminum by its discoverer, but was then altered to be aluminium later because it fit better with the rest of the elements in its column of the periodic table. Aluminum is the older version, aluminium newer
Originally was called Alumium rather than Aluminum when first discovered.

Aluminium and Aluminum were actually used almost concurrently (within same year) and given that the element was first discovered in early 19th century has nothing to do with whether or not American English is closer to 16th century English or if it has mutated more.
Discovered a lot earlier than that technically, but fair point all the same.
User avatar
Frodder
Posts: 10546
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:25 pm
Location: Leafy Cheshire (West)

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Frodder »

Enough already
User avatar
Chuckles1188
Posts: 40610
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:54 am
Location: Joint No. 3 to Cyprus

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Frodder wrote:Enough already
Yeah that one's really irritating as well, good contribution :thumbup:
User avatar
danny_fitz
Posts: 12173
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Mostly London........Mostly

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by danny_fitz »

I am a freelance engineer in the oil and gas industry and work with lots of Americans and as a consequence exposed to the worse excesses of their corporate bullshit lingo.

'low hanging fruit'
'get amongst the weeds'
'let me quarter back this'
'we need to incentivise'
'lets light a fire under this'

and my pet hate

'granularity'
User avatar
globus
Posts: 52703
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Oundle

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by globus »

danny_fitz wrote:I am a freelance engineer in the oil and gas industry and work with lots of Americans and as a consequence exposed to the worse excesses of their corporate bullshit lingo.

'low hanging fruit'
'get amongst the weeds'
'let me quarter back this'
'we need to incentivise'
'lets light a fire under this'

and my pet hate

'granularity'
Cheers DF. Added four of those to my "Bullshit Bingo" card.

I now have quite a few.

I was in a meeting when someone said "We have to shoot the moon". Still not worked that one out.
User avatar
danny_fitz
Posts: 12173
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Mostly London........Mostly

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by danny_fitz »

globus wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:I am a freelance engineer in the oil and gas industry and work with lots of Americans and as a consequence exposed to the worse excesses of their corporate bullshit lingo.

'low hanging fruit'
'get amongst the weeds'
'let me quarter back this'
'we need to incentivise'
'lets light a fire under this'

and my pet hate

'granularity'
Cheers DF. Added four of those to my "Bullshit Bingo" card.

I now have quite a few.

I was in a meeting when someone said "We have to shoot the moon". Still not worked that one out.
I believe it is in reference to The Who's late drummer Keith Moon who was known for his noisy antics of setting off home made explosives during gigs or in hotel room toilets. Shooting the Moon is an abstract way of telling people to calm down if a meeting gets a bit feisty with too many alphas trying to boss proceedings.
User avatar
tabascoboy
Posts: 10801
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: 曇りの街

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by tabascoboy »

I'm like, whatever
User avatar
Gazzamonster
Posts: 6958
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Gazzamonster »

danny_fitz wrote:I am a freelance engineer in the oil and gas industry and work with lots of Americans and as a consequence exposed to the worse excesses of their corporate bullshit lingo.

'low hanging fruit'
'get amongst the weeds'
'let me quarter back this'
'we need to incentivise'
'lets light a fire under this'

and my pet hate

'granularity'
As well as:

'Coming off the bench'
'Moving forward'
'Touch base'
'360 degree thinking'
'Focused Imagining' (instead of brainstorming)
'Let's take a birds eye look at this'

And the new one that seems to be going around - the 'Strategic Staircase'
User avatar
globus
Posts: 52703
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Oundle

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by globus »

danny_fitz wrote:
globus wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:I am a freelance engineer in the oil and gas industry and work with lots of Americans and as a consequence exposed to the worse excesses of their corporate bullshit lingo.

'low hanging fruit'
'get amongst the weeds'
'let me quarter back this'
'we need to incentivise'
'lets light a fire under this'

and my pet hate

'granularity'
Cheers DF. Added four of those to my "Bullshit Bingo" card.

I now have quite a few.

I was in a meeting when someone said "We have to shoot the moon". Still not worked that one out.
I believe it is in reference to The Who's late drummer Keith Moon who was known for his noisy antics of setting off home made explosives during gigs or in hotel room toilets. Shooting the Moon is an abstract way of telling people to calm down if a meeting gets a bit feisty with too many alphas trying to boss proceedings.
Not twigged that. I booked The Who years ago. I've posted the antics before. Moon was a nightmare.

I am friends with Pete's PA.
Gwenno
Posts: 7870
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Gwenno »

Burglarize.
User avatar
message #2527204
Posts: 12853
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Ultracrepidaria

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by message #2527204 »

danny_fitz wrote:
globus wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:I am a freelance engineer in the oil and gas industry and work with lots of Americans and as a consequence exposed to the worse excesses of their corporate bullshit lingo.

'low hanging fruit'
'get amongst the weeds'
'let me quarter back this'
'we need to incentivise'
'lets light a fire under this'

and my pet hate

'granularity'
Cheers DF. Added four of those to my "Bullshit Bingo" card.

I now have quite a few.

I was in a meeting when someone said "We have to shoot the moon". Still not worked that one out.
I believe it is in reference to The Who's late drummer Keith Moon who was known for his noisy antics of setting off home made explosives during gigs or in hotel room toilets. Shooting the Moon is an abstract way of telling people to calm down if a meeting gets a bit feisty with too many alphas trying to boss proceedings.
I've heard 'shoot the moon' in relation to taking all the points in a game of chase the lady.
User avatar
Tony Blair's Therapist
Posts: 1153
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Tony Blair's Therapist »

When I was working in the states, I had to start describing what I was doing as "brokering" because when I said "broking" they had no idea what I was on about.
User avatar
crash 669
Posts: 3695
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by crash 669 »

Gazzamonster wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:I am a freelance engineer in the oil and gas industry and work with lots of Americans and as a consequence exposed to the worse excesses of their corporate bullshit lingo.

'low hanging fruit'
'get amongst the weeds'
'let me quarter back this'
'we need to incentivise'
'lets light a fire under this'

and my pet hate

'granularity'
As well as:

'Coming off the bench'
'Moving forward'
'Touch base'
'360 degree thinking'
'Focused Imagining' (instead of brainstorming)
'Let's take a birds eye look at this'

And the new one that seems to be going around - the 'Strategic Staircase'
"I'm going to ask the question" has always driven me up the fucking wall.

When I was working as a temp a fellow temp came over in the first week to ask if "we could have a knowledge share?" I told him to fuck off and he seemed genuinely confused about what he'd said wrong.
User avatar
Gospel
Posts: 14080
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: West of Londinium

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Gospel »

Granularity an Americanism? I thought it was a pretty standard technical term. :?
User avatar
message #2527204
Posts: 12853
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Ultracrepidaria

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by message #2527204 »

Pants. Sorry kids, but pants are pants.
User avatar
Chuckles1188
Posts: 40610
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:54 am
Location: Joint No. 3 to Cyprus

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Gospel wrote:Granularity an Americanism? I thought it was a pretty standard technical term. :?
It is. Wasn't aware "low-hanging fruit" was either an American phrase or a corporate bullshit term, either
User avatar
dr dre2
Posts: 5187
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:48 pm

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by dr dre2 »

globus wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:I am a freelance engineer in the oil and gas industry and work with lots of Americans and as a consequence exposed to the worse excesses of their corporate bullshit lingo.

'low hanging fruit'
'get amongst the weeds'
'let me quarter back this'
'we need to incentivise'
'lets light a fire under this'

and my pet hate

'granularity'
Cheers DF. Added four of those to my "Bullshit Bingo" card.

I now have quite a few.

I was in a meeting when someone said "We have to shoot the moon". Still not worked that one out.
It's a strategy in the card game hearts (the game that used to ship free with windows along with solitaire etc), the aim of that game is to obtain the lowest point score by avoiding winning hands, unless you feel you have the chance of winning every single hand then you score a zero and give your opponents the max score. It's a risky strategy because if you fail to win just one hand you are going to get a massive score. So it's akin to going for broke, all or nothing. Or "lets not be cautious on this one, if we go for the throat we can take it all and leave nothing for anyone else because we have a great hand".
Last edited by dr dre2 on Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Benthos
Posts: 1051
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Benthos »

message #2527204 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Generally speaking American English is closer to the form of English spoken in Britain during the 15th-17th centuries than modern British English is. The reason their version of the language sounds different to ours is that it has mutated less, not more. The classic example is aluminum/aluminium. When discovered it was named aluminum by its discoverer, but was then altered to be aluminium later because it fit better with the rest of the elements in its column of the periodic table. Aluminum is the older version, aluminium newer
bollocks.
there were a dozen '-iums' discovered before aluminium
Isn't that Chooks' point - that the 'i'-less version chosen by the geek who stumbled across it, was then tweaked by others presumably without the unquestioned global power to tweak such things (or there wouldn't be a debate beyond him throwing his Bunsen burner out of his cot and uncorking the diacetyl morphine), to resemble the extant elements ending in '-ium'..?
User avatar
JM2K6
Posts: 37186
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by JM2K6 »

Gospel wrote:Granularity an Americanism? I thought it was a pretty standard technical term. :?
You have to account for an element of "old man shouts at clouds" in threads like these
User avatar
Sandstorm
Posts: 28609
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Chickenrunning...

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Sandstorm »

danny_fitz wrote:
globus wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:I am a freelance engineer in the oil and gas industry and work with lots of Americans and as a consequence exposed to the worse excesses of their corporate bullshit lingo.

'low hanging fruit'
'get amongst the weeds'
'let me quarter back this'
'we need to incentivise'
'lets light a fire under this'

and my pet hate

'granularity'
Cheers DF. Added four of those to my "Bullshit Bingo" card.

I now have quite a few.

I was in a meeting when someone said "We have to shoot the moon". Still not worked that one out.
I believe it is in reference to The Who's late drummer Keith Moon who was known for his noisy antics of setting off home made explosives during gigs or in hotel room toilets. Shooting the Moon is an abstract way of telling people to calm down if a meeting gets a bit feisty with too many alphas trying to boss proceedings.
Your friend should have said "Shooting for the moon" :roll:

It's a term from 60s NASA rocket engineers
Last edited by Sandstorm on Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Benthos
Posts: 1051
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Benthos »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
Bobless wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Generally speaking American English is closer to the form of English spoken in Britain during the 15th-17th centuries than modern British English is. The reason their version of the language sounds different to ours is that it has mutated less, not more. The classic example is aluminum/aluminium. When discovered it was named aluminum by its discoverer, but was then altered to be aluminium later because it fit better with the rest of the elements in its column of the periodic table. Aluminum is the older version, aluminium newer
Originally was called Alumium rather than Aluminum when first discovered.

Aluminium and Aluminum were actually used almost concurrently (within same year) and given that the element was first discovered in early 19th century has nothing to do with whether or not American English is closer to 16th century English or if it has mutated more.
Discovered a lot earlier than that technically, but fair point all the same.
...or what he then said and I didn't see..
User avatar
Benthos
Posts: 1051
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Benthos »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
Gospel wrote:Granularity an Americanism? I thought it was a pretty standard technical term. :?
It is. Wasn't aware "low-hanging fruit" was either an American phrase or a corporate bullshit term, either
First time I heard the latter, I was due to present for the first time to the board of the company I had just joined (by convincing them I could make them shedloads of cash by doing something that they'd spent literally centuries deciding not to do), and when I walked in with a devastating hangover, having just hurriedly pulled on the only cleanish suit I had, but which had a little hole in the crotch, the extraordinarily up-his-arse Strategy Director, in a really strong Norn Iron accent, said "be-wer loo-honging frut"

Having never heard the expression, I immediately assumed he could see my tackle through the hole in my strides (plums = fruit..?), blushed, pulled my tie down as much as possible and presented with a slight stoop.

The lightbulb moment only came that evening in the pub when I was asking colleagues if they could see my 'low-hanging fruit' - of course he was voicing, in exactly the corporate bullshitty way he would, concern about what he thought were the dangers of the 'easy money' ideas I had
User avatar
Fangle
Posts: 3143
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Fangle »

Gifted, which somehow over the last thirty years snuck its way out of America. Check any older dictionary.
User avatar
AND-y
Posts: 16223
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by AND-y »

I know, right.
User avatar
message #2527204
Posts: 12853
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Ultracrepidaria

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by message #2527204 »

Fangle wrote:Gifted, which somehow over the last thirty years snuck its way out of America. Check any older dictionary.
Snuck

oh ... and gotten
User avatar
JM2K6
Posts: 37186
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by JM2K6 »

Gotten is a great word 8)
User avatar
Plato'sCave
Posts: 15390
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:36 pm

Re: Americanisms in UK English

Post by Plato'sCave »

Talking American is where it's at, English is dying a dying language.
Post Reply