One sentence to best sum up current-day rugby fans...

Demilich · Post by **Demilich** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:23 am

SilverGrin wrote:A bit rough calling me a shitcunt, my post was chiefly to applaud Harbour and how they deserved to win.

No it wasn't. It was to be a ref-blaming shitcunt, thinly disguised as a "congratulations to the opposition" thread. Which are a very popular way of trying to appear like you aren't actually a ref-blaming shitcunt.

Ali's Choice wrote:I believe we should just accept the fact that Rugby is a highly technical game with lots of rules that are open to interpretation. Moaning about the referee is now an accepted part of our game and will only get worse. We either accept that fact or try and simplify the laws.

It will get worse. There is a third option - try to encourage a culture where being a ref-blaming shitcunt is called out and frowned upon at all levels. It won't eliminate the problem, but it might reduce it.

Ali's Choice · Post by **Ali's Choice** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:27 am

Demilich wrote:
SilverGrin wrote:A bit rough calling me a shitcunt, my post was chiefly to applaud Harbour and how they deserved to win.
No it wasn't. It was to be a ref-blaming shitcunt, thinly disguised as a "congratulations to the opposition" thread. Which are a very popular way of trying to appear like you aren't actually a ref-blaming shitcunt.

Ali's Choice wrote:I believe we should just accept the fact that Rugby is a highly technical game with lots of rules that are open to interpretation. Moaning about the referee is now an accepted part of our game and will only get worse. We either accept that fact or try and simplify the laws.
It will get worse. There is a third option - try to encourage a culture where being a ref-blaming shitcunt is called out and frowned upon at all levels. It won't eliminate the problem, but it might reduce it.

I don't think that's possible on a global scale. Nope, we have just two options, we accept that moaning about the ref is a huge part of Rugby's culture in the pro-era or we try and simplify the game.

Demilich · Post by **Demilich** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:29 am

Ali's Choice wrote:
Demilich wrote:
SilverGrin wrote:A bit rough calling me a shitcunt, my post was chiefly to applaud Harbour and how they deserved to win.
No it wasn't. It was to be a ref-blaming shitcunt, thinly disguised as a "congratulations to the opposition" thread. Which are a very popular way of trying to appear like you aren't actually a ref-blaming shitcunt.

Ali's Choice wrote:I believe we should just accept the fact that Rugby is a highly technical game with lots of rules that are open to interpretation. Moaning about the referee is now an accepted part of our game and will only get worse. We either accept that fact or try and simplify the laws.
It will get worse. There is a third option - try to encourage a culture where being a ref-blaming shitcunt is called out and frowned upon at all levels. It won't eliminate the problem, but it might reduce it.
I don't think that's possible on a global scale. Nope, we have just two options, we accept that moaning about the ref is a huge part of Rugby's culture in the pro-era or we try and simplify the game.

Then the above sentence as a good way to describe rugby fans shall remain.

Ali's Choice · Post by **Ali's Choice** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:34 am

Demilich wrote:Then the above sentence as a good way to describe rugby fans shall remain.

Unfortunately

JB1981 · Post by **JB1981** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:42 am

I'd add inconsistent to the description. A lot of the time people blame the referee, they would probably defend the offending decision if it had been made in favour of their team. There are exceptions but there's definitely an element of "it was wrong because it was against us".

Jackal79 · Post by **Jackal79** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:38 am

Ali's Choice wrote:I believe we should just accept the fact that Rugby is a highly technical game with lots of rules that are open to interpretation. Moaning about the referee is now an accepted part of our game and will only get worse. We either accept that fact or try and simplify the laws.

Yep. Trouble is to a lot of RU fans the mere thought of that phrase brings them out in a cold sweat. Doing it would make the game too much like rugby league apparently.

Personally I'd like World Rugby to just instruct their refs to take the pea out of their whistles a little bit. Let the game breathe. Nothing like an over-zealous official to strangle a game, sadly RU's full of them atm.

guy smiley · Post by **guy smiley** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:12 am

Demilich, you know I have the deepest respect for you as a poster, person, player and global traveller...

So please don't take it personally when I disagree with your proposition and suggest you are projecting your own deepest insecurities and personal flaws into the collective rugby fan world wide.

We've always debated the performance of the ref and his influence on a game. Recently increased coverage has added accelerant to the debate helped along by the increased levels of entitlement expectation so favoured by your disgusting generation.

Demilich · Post by **Demilich** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:53 am

guy smiley wrote:Demilich, you know I have the deepest respect for you as a poster, person, player and global traveller...

Starting your post off with such statements renders the entire rest of it not worth reading, as you are obviously a terrible judge of character.

I'll just assume it defends the fact that the modern day rugby fan-base is fast descending to the base level of the "soccer-chavs" it has often professed to pity and despise. One suspects it has always been at that level, but our carefully applied layers of make-up are clearly starting to run.

guy smiley · Post by **guy smiley** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:58 am

It saddens me to see you condone the attitudes of a generation determined to trample everything in reach to satisfy their gratification impulse.

A generation that grew up with the internet and considers themselves all knowing and entitled to whatever they see as a result, devaluing or defacing as a matter of course.

Anonymous 1 · Post by **Anonymous 1** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:53 am

Demilich wrote:One sentence to best sum up current-day rugby fans

Not dead yet

SilverGrin · Post by **SilverGrin** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:44 am

Demilich wrote:
SilverGrin wrote:A bit rough calling me a shitcunt, my post was chiefly to applaud Harbour and how they deserved to win.
No it wasn't. It was to be a ref-blaming shitcunt, thinly disguised as a "congratulations to the opposition" thread. Which are a very popular way of trying to appear like you aren't actually a ref-blaming shitcunt.

Ali's Choice wrote:I believe we should just accept the fact that Rugby is a highly technical game with lots of rules that are open to interpretation. Moaning about the referee is now an accepted part of our game and will only get worse. We either accept that fact or try and simplify the laws.
It will get worse. There is a third option - try to encourage a culture where being a ref-blaming shitcunt is called out and frowned upon at all levels. It won't eliminate the problem, but it might reduce it.

Well, it's fortunate that we've got you and your moral high horse to tell us what we really mean. Here's me thinking that Harbour played well and deserved their win. Boy was I wrong.

AND-y · Post by **AND-y** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:55 am

Sometimes your team may lose due to a call that you consider dodgy, deal with it is the best mantra for me. I know it's all very emotional and tribal but just take a step back, it doesn't actually matter.

Unless it's Alain "Irish" Rolland of course.

Yourmother · Post by **Yourmother** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:43 am

When I used to watch rugby over a decade ago, I never noticed reffing decisions. Generally felt the refs applied the principles of awarding the go forward team fairly. I despised those who blamed the ref. Especially when I watched chavball and saw how bad it had become. Not just the fans, but the players agressively mobbing the ref over decisions. But it didn't stop there, the managers were outright blaming the refs in press interviews.

But then 2007 happened, and that shitcunt Wayne Barnes

Fast forward to now. We have former players and former refs publically slating the refereeing. We have head coaches questioning ref decisions in post match interviews. It's heading the wrong way, and we're all part of it

mr bungle · Post by **mr bungle** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:30 am

SilverGrin wrote:
Demilich wrote:
SilverGrin wrote:A bit rough calling me a shitcunt, my post was chiefly to applaud Harbour and how they deserved to win.
No it wasn't. It was to be a ref-blaming shitcunt, thinly disguised as a "congratulations to the opposition" thread. Which are a very popular way of trying to appear like you aren't actually a ref-blaming shitcunt.

Ali's Choice wrote:I believe we should just accept the fact that Rugby is a highly technical game with lots of rules that are open to interpretation. Moaning about the referee is now an accepted part of our game and will only get worse. We either accept that fact or try and simplify the laws.
It will get worse. There is a third option - try to encourage a culture where being a ref-blaming shitcunt is called out and frowned upon at all levels. It won't eliminate the problem, but it might reduce it.
Well, it's fortunate that we've got you and your moral high horse to tell us what we really mean. Here's me thinking that Harbour played well and deserved their win. Boy was I wrong.

It was a bit of a sooky congrats OP, tbf. But not worth starting this thread over.

SilverGrin · Post by **SilverGrin** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:43 am

Fknell, I give up. I won't bother in future.

indomite · Post by **indomite** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:01 am

I think we'd be served well if refs weren't mic'd.

The thing that's worse than a ref making a poor call, is him then giving a reason that describes a scenario that patently didn't happen.

I also think that when a ref calls "ruck" all players should release the ball, too often we see a player who has been contesting the ball with their hands continue to do so, and not be penalised.

But as to the original question: a cohort divided into those who support the ABs; and those who lack discrimination, an understanding of the game, and good personal hygiene.

749a · Post by **749a** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:27 am

indomite wrote: I also think that when a ref calls "ruck" all players should release the ball, too often we see a player who has been contesting the ball with their hands continue to do so, and not be penalised.

indomite wrote: Unless you're suggesting a law change, if they have their hands on the ball before the ruck forms (ie when the ref calls ruck), then they don't have to let go of the ball.

Demilich · Post by **Demilich** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:33 am

SilverGrin wrote:Fknell, I give up. I won't bother in future.

There we go, progress. And AC said it couldn't be done! PR - improving the game, one ref-blaming shitcunt at a time.

Nieghorn · Post by **Nieghorn** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:49 am

749a wrote:
indomite wrote: I also think that when a ref calls "ruck" all players should release the ball, too often we see a player who has been contesting the ball with their hands continue to do so, and not be penalised.

indomite wrote: Unless you're suggesting a law change, if they have their hands on the ball before the ruck forms (ie when the ref calls ruck), then they don't have to let go of the ball.

Not in possession, but having a second and third grab at it. That's not allowed. And too often you see tiny knock-ons there that get ignored... no, we don't want the game killed by scrums and penalties, but they've given players an inch and they've taken a mile at the breakdown. Let them know early that it won't be tolerated.

... but then again, didn't they try and police this in the Mitre 10, only to have teams stay out of rucks? The game's fecked, I feel.

fisgard792 · Post by **fisgard792** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:45 am

if a ref cant ensure the most basic and easiest law to adjudge, of the ball going into the scrum straight, hes got to accept on more difficult laws hes going to be questioned. help the people who love the game to help you

too many fans have never played to a level, and some of those that have, have taken bumps to their napper, and just forgotten the characteristic of playing. i have never been near a team that didnt go out to win the game, by the best means for them, if that meant stuffing it up their jumper for 80 mins, so be it

also, too many rugby fans attach the glory, skill and experience a team generates to themselves on a line as tenuous as they were born in the same country as some of the players, whom they have never come close to meeting. again they are generally not ex-players

demanding to let the 'game flow' can equal, 'ignore some of the laws', who's now drawing this line

SilverGrin · Post by **SilverGrin** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:11 am

Demilich wrote:
SilverGrin wrote:Fknell, I give up. I won't bother in future.
There we go, progress. And AC said it couldn't be done! PR - improving the game, one ref-blaming shitcunt at a time.

Go fuck yourself you sanctimonious cock.

MungoMan · Post by **MungoMan** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:17 am

SilverGrin wrote:
Demilich wrote:
SilverGrin wrote:Fknell, I give up. I won't bother in future.
There we go, progress. And AC said it couldn't be done! PR - improving the game, one ref-blaming shitcunt at a time.
Go fuck yourself you sanctimonious cock.

Jeeze SilverGrin, you haven't quite got the hang of this whole giving up thing.

You'd be the sort of fella who'd give immediate notice on Wednesday and see nothing odd about turning up on Thursday.

Demilich · Post by **Demilich** » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:02 am

Bump.

Another international season underway, where we get to enjoy rugby fans of all nations cover themselves and rugby in general in glorious ref-blaming-shit-plum.

Post by **kovana** » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:11 am

Refs are ruining rugby.

They are fcuken useless.

Hoping Rugby dies on its arse soon. So many dumb fcuken games ruined by poor reffing.

Flametop · Post by **Flametop** » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:18 am

Vahian wrote:To be fair rugby's rules are open to interpretation to the point where we all acknowledge that different referees rule on the game differently. Which in turn has created players in the pro era to play to the ref and push every boundary they can.

This.

The laws need to be enforced and not interpreted.

Yer Man · Post by **Yer Man** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:09 am

Ted. wrote:I'd rather more effort went into respecting the refs.

I do wish refs would hit dissent with the automatic 10 meters back of days of yore.
And keep going until the mouth cünt gets smacked by his own teammate.

globus · Post by **globus** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:33 am

Ali's Choice wrote:I believe we should just accept the fact that Rugby is a highly technical game with lots of rules that are open to interpretation. Moaning about the referee is now an accepted part of our game and will only get worse. We either accept that fact or try and simplify the laws.

I never, ever, moaned about the ref. Even if he was blatantly wrong. They cannot see everything. I've been blatted way off the ball and sought retaliation. I was the one who got sent off.

Nice drink in the bar afterwards with him and the bloke who admitted he given me a short arm off the ball.

We send each other Christmas cards and I'm godparent to his daughter. That's the spirit of Rugby. Hope it never changes.

Kiwias · Post by **Kiwias** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:38 am

Duff Paddy wrote:
Backwoodsman1 wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:Rugby is reasonably complicated. At any given point you can have players from both sides infringing (mostly timing errors or genuine mistakes rather than deliberate cheating) so no matter which way a ref calls it one side will probably feel hard done by.
Life is complicated. I would really not like to see the game dumbed down to suit a few of the less capable and discerning fans or as a reaction to referees copping it. I'd rather more effort went into respecting the refs.
I agree completely. Those who don't understand the situation above and as a result can't respect the refs and the difficulties they face should bugger off to another sport as far as I'm concerned.

This, just this. Also should be stipulated by the various Unions that broadcasters have a duty of care to ensure their individual commentators respect the ethos of the game in the commentary.
Possibly the best 4 posts I've ever read on this forum

Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes to each of the four posts.

Was it just me that noticed that Pearse referred to players by their number even when calling them out? He did not seem to use their first names very much. I am not sure the trend for familiarity is helpful in maintaining a sense of respect toward referees.

THough I may just be a curmudgeonly old bugger pining for the old days.

Adrianmole · Post by **Adrianmole** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:42 am

Personally I like it when opposition fans are complaining about the ref. It means we have won again. Their salty bitter tears are sweet to my lips.

Kiwias · Post by **Kiwias** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:48 am

kovana wrote:Refs are ruining rugby.

They are fcuken useless.

Hoping Rugby dies on its arse soon. So many dumb fcuken games ruined by poor reffing.

SpecialK

Good to see you back.

Plato'sCave · Post by **Plato'sCave** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:55 am

Demilich wrote:Just reading Silvergrin's "congrats North Harbour" post, and it strikes me the as rather sad that the most fitting description for modern day rugby fans seems to be:

"A bunch of ref-blaming shitcunts."

Now it's obviously not limited to rugby (it is becoming more prevalent across all sports) and it has always been around to some degree. But it is now drowning all other analysis of rugby. The number one fan theme after games at every level, be they kids, school-boy, grass roots, club, province, franchise or international is to pan the ref.

Rather sad really.

Not just the fans either, the press do a good line in ref blaming.

Andalu · Post by **Andalu** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:17 am

Timely thread.

Diego · Post by **Diego** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:26 am

I have no issue with refs making mistakes. It happens, they're human and it's a tough job.

TMOs and citing officers have absolutely no excuse though, and that's where the problem is.

Crash_12 · Post by **Crash_12** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:30 am

Diego wrote:I have no issue with refs making mistakes. It happens, they're human and it's a tough job.

TMOs and citing officers have absolutely no excuse though, and that's where the problem is.

The inconsistency in the citing process is baffling.

globus · Post by **globus** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:32 am

Crash_12 wrote:
Diego wrote:I have no issue with refs making mistakes. It happens, they're human and it's a tough job.

TMOs and citing officers have absolutely no excuse though, and that's where the problem is.
The inconsistency in the citing process is baffling.

I agree.

Andalu · Post by **Andalu** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:36 am

TMOs and citing commissioners rarely get the flack that refs get because they are faceless and often (relatively) nameless. I would have no problem at people questioning a citing commissioner's decision by name if it is egregious but it almost never happens.

Diego · Post by **Diego** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:43 am

Crash_12 wrote:
Diego wrote:I have no issue with refs making mistakes. It happens, they're human and it's a tough job.

TMOs and citing officers have absolutely no excuse though, and that's where the problem is.
The inconsistency in the citing process is baffling.

It's a total lottery.

hermie · Post by **hermie** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:02 pm

Diego wrote:I have no issue with refs making mistakes. It happens, they're human and it's a tough job.

TMOs and citing officers have absolutely no excuse though, and that's where the problem is.

+1

Refs can't win. If they're pernickity and blow for everything they have "no feel for the game". If they let the game flow and only callback the more blatant and cycnical offenses they'll be jumped on for missing this, that and the other.

I genuinely feel the game was better off without the TMO. So often they spend 10 mins looking at an incident and still get it wrong. Or calling back play for increasingly small misdemeanors. It's so disruptive. It's hard to go back now but they ought to be reigned in.

argus · Post by **argus** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:12 pm

The viewing experience and multiple camera angles in HD have contributed to the arm chair fans complaining about marginal decisions.

If one actually watches and listens to the refs and assistants , it is obvious how hard they work and concentrate.

Real time communication with the video ref as well for could play, etc

Play can sweep from end to end and side to side and the refs as expected and do keep up with the play and monitor every point of contact

Refs from 15 years ago would probably struggle to ref today

Demilich · Post by **Demilich** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:26 pm

Yes, the improved coverage certainly highlights it and the media certainly shovels it down the fan's throats. But only because that is what fans want shoveled down their throats.

Because they are ref-blaming-shit-cunts.

Refs have always made mistakes. They always will. It doesn't matter how much technology and assistance there is, it will happen. It's up to individual rugby fans deciding not to be little cry-baby bitches and setting an example that hopefully spreads.