AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

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Mick Mannock
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Mick Mannock »

iarmhiman wrote:Ah here comes Mick with a grammar correction. Great stuff.
I wouldn't bother with most people on here, but you are one of the brighter ones.

Don't let your standards slip.
rfurlong

Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by rfurlong »

SilverGrin wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:Last time NZ had a player sent off?..........1967 :lol:

World rugby in their pocket.

Unreal cynicism. ABs basically daring ref not to be a pussy.
I would love to know how many times the cheating plum have had concurrent yellows as well.
Wow. That's some pretty sour grapes right there. You lost, so it's because the AB's cheated and the ref was bent. Just wow.

You dogs should just fuck off to a soccer site where this shit is the norm. You really do bring the fans down.
Relax there fella ..... armchair in particular is a troll
pigaaaa
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by pigaaaa »

rfurlong wrote:
pigaaaa wrote:There are some classless Irish on display here :(
Sad really. I used to think you lot were better than this.
In the words of our bard Everready, "get fvcked"
Poor sod. Do you feel better now kid?
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Demilich
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Demilich »

SilverGrin wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:Last time NZ had a player sent off?..........1967 :lol:

World rugby in their pocket.

Unreal cynicism. ABs basically daring ref not to be a pussy.
I would love to know how many times the cheating plum have had concurrent yellows as well.
Wow. That's some pretty sour grapes right there. You lost, so it's because the AB's cheated and the ref was bent. Just wow.

You dogs should just fuck off to a soccer site where this shit is the norm. You really do bring the fans down.
This shit IS the norm for rugby fans now. No better than soccer fans.

We are one great big collective of ref-blaming shitcunts.
rfurlong

Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by rfurlong »

pigaaaa wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
pigaaaa wrote:There are some classless Irish on display here :(
Sad really. I used to think you lot were better than this.
In the words of our bard Everready, "get fvcked"
Poor sod. Do you feel better now kid?
:lol: :roll:
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RWC2015
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by RWC2015 »

The Native wrote:Ireland were sinfully wasteful with their territory and possession advantage. Not to mention they had a man advantage for a quarter of the game.
Yeah I agree, and the best team won :thumbup:

Night all *blows kiss*
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Tehui
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Tehui »

indomite wrote:
MrDominator wrote:
Dukie wrote:
SecretAgentMan wrote:
naki wrote:A couple of weeks ago every kiwi in the world gave a masterclass in losing with grace and humility.

They might have purchased many of our coaches, players and philosophies about the game, but it seems there are some qualities the Irish have yet to truly absorb

A shame, really :thumbdown:
They're just following the lead of their miserable home commentators, who spent the entire game bitching about the ABs' "illegalities". At one point the idiots completely ignored an entire passage of play while they waffled on about all the "deserved" post-match citings and sanctions they were certain the ABs would be facing. Pathetic.
It literally was the worst commentary of a game I have ever heard.
It's always a delight when one chippy, parochial, insular culture encounters another.

Like two autistic spackers meeting for the first time.
Good on Churchill for writing The Island Race....

You're the cartoon pigeon in a Disney movie, puffing out your chest more and more, as you wander round in circles.
:lol:
ZappaMan
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by ZappaMan »

Time for a Kiwi/Mick group hug?
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indomite
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by indomite »

ZappaMan wrote:Time for a Kiwi/Mick group hug?
Always, you beautiful thing.
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Tehui
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Tehui »

Clouseau wrote:I was cheering on Ireland this afternoon before I had a look at this thread.

Congratulations All Blacks.
:lol:
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Ted.
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Ted. »

There's more than a few fuckwits stinking the place up. I suspect it is just disappointment that has got them going, but it seems to be the same ones that react poorly. It's a shame, but there will always be a few from every side, we are certainly not immune.
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Demilich
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Demilich »

ZappaMan wrote:Time for a Kiwi/Mick group hug?
There was an Irish/Kiwi boxing event in Auckland last night. I even cheered on an Irish fighter. Relations are at an all time high. :thumbup:
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indomite
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by indomite »

Ted. wrote:There's more than a few fuckwits stinking the place up. I suspect it is just disappointment that has got them going, but it seems to be the same ones that react poorly. It's a shame, but there will always be a few from every side, we are certainly not immune.
You win one game a century and you get a sense of entitlement. :P
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Ted.
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Ted. »

Tehui wrote:
indomite wrote:
MrDominator wrote: It's always a delight when one chippy, parochial, insular culture encounters another.

Like two autistic spackers meeting for the first time.
Good on Churchill for writing The Island Race....

You're the cartoon pigeon in a Disney movie, puffing out your chest more and more, as you wander round in circles.
:lol:
Now that is just beautiful. :thumbup:
ZappaMan
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by ZappaMan »

indomite wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:Time for a Kiwi/Mick group hug?
Always, you beautiful thing.
I watched the match today at an extremely enjoyable Kiwi/Mick party. I was lucky enough to be in Chicago a fortnight ago where every single Kiwi I met joined us in celebration.

The internet can suck my balls.
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SilverGrin
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by SilverGrin »

Demilich wrote:
SilverGrin wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:Last time NZ had a player sent off?..........1967 :lol:

World rugby in their pocket.

Unreal cynicism. ABs basically daring ref not to be a pussy.
I would love to know how many times the cheating plum have had concurrent yellows as well.
Wow. That's some pretty sour grapes right there. You lost, so it's because the AB's cheated and the ref was bent. Just wow.

You dogs should just fuck off to a soccer site where this shit is the norm. You really do bring the fans down.
This shit IS the norm for rugby fans now. No better than soccer fans.

We are one great big collective of ref-blaming shitcunts.
Speak for yourself.

Again you single me out with that ridiculously sanctimonious POV. I don't usually blame the ref if my team loses but if they makes errors I'm quite entitled to be critical and I will say so, despite you getting your panties in a bunch.

However, this spotty little herbert RWC2015 has done nothing but whine post-game and outright accused not only Peyper, but all refs of being bent. Maybe your opprobrium should be directed towards him and some of the others fucking this cat.
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indomite
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by indomite »

ZappaMan wrote:
indomite wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:Time for a Kiwi/Mick group hug?
Always, you beautiful thing.
I watched the match today at an extremely enjoyable Kiwi/Mick party. I was lucky enough to be in Chicago a fortnight ago where every single Kiwi I met joined us in celebration.

The internet can suck my balls.
:thumbup:
acenas of the day
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by acenas of the day »

Ted. wrote:There's more than a few fuckwits stinking the place up. I suspect it is just disappointment that has got them going, but it seems to be the same ones that react poorly. It's a shame, but there will always be a few from every side, we are certainly not immune.
Shut up you are so up yourself, you aint G Henry or S Hansen. Arrogant, boring poster. A wannabe humble bum stuck in the 1970s. And no one says pull your head in. Dont like you at all. You are Like a follower or seneca of the night. When I see your , turbogoat and yoyrmothers posts you always see arrogant , patronising post needlessly praising opposition when they cant even score s try vs 14 men for 20 mins. It makes you look arrogant.
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SilverGrin
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by SilverGrin »

acenas of the day wrote:
Ted. wrote:There's more than a few fuckwits stinking the place up. I suspect it is just disappointment that has got them going, but it seems to be the same ones that react poorly. It's a shame, but there will always be a few from every side, we are certainly not immune.
Shut up you are so up yourself, you aint G Henry or S Hansen. Arrogant, boring poster. A wannabe humble bum stuck in the 1970s. And no one says pull your head in. Dont like you at all. You are Like a follower or seneca of the night. When I see your , turbogoat and yoyrmothers posts you always see arrogant , patronising post needlessly praising opposition when they cant even score s try vs 14 men for 20 mins. It makes you look arrogant.
Do fuck off.
Dukie
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Dukie »

YOYO wrote:Want to see Read and Retallick get sat down with some brute strength?! Was that Owen Franks who was bounced prior to the sit downs?

I bring you tighthead prop Taghe Furlong. Serious bit of play.

https://twitter.com/threeredkings/statu ... 0519970816
Show's that how underated the fend is, him being able to use his arm to push away tacklers coming in high is key to that run.
If he had of led with his shoulder he would have been grappled down.

Great run.
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by iarmhiman »

Chris Rattue's ratings:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11751676
Chris Rattue Chris Rattue is a sports columnist for the New Zealand Herald.
Player Ratings: All Blacks v Ireland

Chris Rattue rates the players following the All Blacks' 21-9 win over Ireland this morning in Dublin.

New Zealand

Ben Smith 7
From fullback, to halfback - where he did a smart job - to wing. Efficient, not startling.

Israel Dagg 8
From unwanted fullback to NZ's best wing. All class as runner and playmaker.

Malakai Fekitoa 7
One nice finish. Stupid high tackle meant costly yellow card. Awkward and enthusiastic.

Anton Lienert-Brown 7
Needed a better platform. Classy moments, neat defending, but with the odd blooper.

Julian Savea 6
Useless with the high ball. One decent charge but too much lost or spilled ball.

Beauden Barrett 9
But for two poor passes, probably worth a 10. Magnificent in attack, defence, and goals. Saved the day as Ireland hammered the All Blacks.


Aaron Smith 4
Brave tackling his only saviour. Horrible, including string of bad second half kicks. Not even NZ's best halfback anymore. Debilitating yellow card as well.

Kieran Read 6
Top start but faded. Lack of punch with the ball a major problem, highlighted by comparison to Irish loosies' fabulous stampede. Also missed tackles, but made quite a few.

Sam Cane 5
Departed early with leg injury after haphazard start.

Liam Squire 8
Stood out, without the necessary support or physical impact to turn back Irish tide.

Sam Whitelock 6
Virtually nothing with the ball, so had to do plenty without it, which he did. Manly grasping tackles though.

Brodie Retallick 8
Big work rate. Some smashing tackles and tried to get his side on front foot. One fine kick off take.

Owen Franks 6
Scrums were a toss up, but he was clearly outplayed around the field.

Dane Coles 6
The magic wasn't quite happening. Lineouts strong, enthusiastic tackling. One great lineout move.

Joe Moody 7
Put in huge defensive shift, a good run, a little clumsy at times.

Reserves
Codie Taylor (Coles, 67m) 5
All Blacks need a muscular hooker option. Coaches' faith not there yet.

Wyatt Crockett (Moody, 49m) 5
Didn't get into the game. Rome might have tired him out.

Charlie Faumuina (Franks, 52m) 6
Got involved and snaffled a loose ball late.

Scott Barrett (Squire, 67m) 6
Busy defensively and one good contest.

Ardie Savea (Cane, 17m) 7
All that wild fury needs more direction, but he did impress as the All Blacks clung on.

TJ Perenara (Smith, 58m) 8
Made big difference. Terrific pass created try. Caused problems to the end.

Aaron Cruden (J. Savea, 58m) 6
Okay cameo, and tackled aggressively.

Waisake Naholo (B. Smith, 74m) 5
A couple of runs. Thanks coach.

Ireland
Rob Kearney 6
Did some running but without posing many questions.

Andrew Trimble 7
Low involvement, high class. HIs outstretched hand prevented one try, and probably another.

Jared Payne 6
A clever game, but the Irish forwards will wonder why their efforts didn't bring victory.

Robbie Henshaw 5
His departure after an 11th minutes head clash with Cane a bitter blow to Irish hopes.

Simon Zebo 6
Nifty moves, but they didn't produce much.

Johnny Sexton 5
Hadn't done a lot but his 17th minute departure was probably a turning point in retrospect.

Conor Murray 6
Left best work in Chicago - highly involved, didn't make much happen. Missed Barrett on try run.

Jamie Heaslip 8
Powered through Read early on, kept hammering away, and part of some midfield ploys.

Sean O'Brien 9
Every bit Barrett's equal as man of the match. Stupendous amount of running, decent defence. If only he had held the ball with the tryline begging.

CJ Stander 8
A belligerent 22 minutes of work with the ball helped set the stage.

Donnacha Ryan 6
A toiler in this company but he made a few short charges.

Devin Toner 7
A lineout colossus. Resolute elsewhere.

Tadhg Furlong 9
Magnificent, starting with tackle on wing Savea. Loads of carries - brushed off Franks, Read and Retallick with one. Even smart short pass to van der Flier.

Rory Best 7
Yap, yap, yap. Some lineout misses aside, strong. But cut the referee inquisitions please.

Jack McGrath 7
Very busy, as he was in the Chicago game.

Reserves
Sean Cronin (Best, 67m) 5
Vigorous but one crucial dropped ball.

Cian Healy (McGrath, 58m) 5
There or there abouts. One poor long pass.

Finlay Bealham (Furlong, 67m) 5
Big shoes to fill and didn't get close.

Iain Henderson (Ryan, 58m) 5
Not much going on here.

Josh van der Flier (Stander, 22m) 8
Brilliant match - still making big runs in the final 10 minutes.

Kieran Marmion (Zebo, 78m) -
Unwanted in his true position at halfback.

Paddy Jackson (Sexton, 17m) 4
Aimless. Terrible kick led to Fekitoa's match-sealer. Wasted forwards dominance.

Garry Ringrose (Henshaw, 11m) 6
Lively but not very threatening.
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waguser
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by waguser »

not read thread

but if we had won it that way I for one would be embarrassed

deliberate targetting with clothesline

poor show

weak ref
acenas of the day
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by acenas of the day »

SilverGrin wrote:
acenas of the day wrote:
Ted. wrote:There's more than a few fuckwits stinking the place up. I suspect it is just disappointment that has got them going, but it seems to be the same ones that react poorly. It's a shame, but there will always be a few from every side, we are certainly not immune.
Shut up you are so up yourself, you aint G Henry or S Hansen. Arrogant, boring poster. A wannabe humble bum stuck in the 1970s. And no one says pull your head in. Dont like you at all. You are Like a follower or seneca of the night. When I see your , turbogoat and yoyrmothers posts you always see arrogant , patronising post needlessly praising opposition when they cant even score s try vs 14 men for 20 mins. It makes you look arrogant.
Do fuck off.
NO. Go back to your crazy posts "silver"
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Kiwias
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Kiwias »

Tschussie wrote:
Gospel wrote:But then I was also chortling at Barrett bringing down a full bore SOB 5m from the try line.
Heaslip's pass was a little low so SOB had to check himself to gather but that was still a mightly impressive piece of defence.
From the subsequent scrum, BB tackled Heaslip head on and brought him down in front of the posts. He is a tough bugger
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by wamberal99 »

Ted. wrote:There's more than a few fuckwits stinking the place up. We are certainly not immune.

That is the understatement of the millennium.
SecretAgentMan
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by SecretAgentMan »

indomite wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:
indomite wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:Time for a Kiwi/Mick group hug?
Always, you beautiful thing.
I watched the match today at an extremely enjoyable Kiwi/Mick party. I was lucky enough to be in Chicago a fortnight ago where every single Kiwi I met joined us in celebration.

The internet can suck my balls.
:thumbup:
:nod:
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vh5150
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by vh5150 »

SecretAgentMan wrote:
indomite wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:
indomite wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:Time for a Kiwi/Mick group hug?
Always, you beautiful thing.
I watched the match today at an extremely enjoyable Kiwi/Mick party. I was lucky enough to be in Chicago a fortnight ago where every single Kiwi I met joined us in celebration.

The internet can suck my balls.
:thumbup:
:nod:
:thumbup:
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Fat Old Git
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Sad to see so much whinging after what was a pretty enjoyable hard fought match. It's only a relatively few posters doing it, but they're doing a good job of making it the main after match focus.

:(
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maxbox
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by maxbox »

SilverGrin wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:Last time NZ had a player sent off?..........1967 :lol:

World rugby in their pocket.

Unreal cynicism. ABs basically daring ref not to be a pussy.
I would love to know how many times the cheating plum have had concurrent yellows as well.
Wow. That's some pretty sour grapes right there. You lost, so it's because the AB's cheated and the ref was bent. Just wow.

You dogs should just fuck off to a soccer site where this shit is the norm. You really do bring the fans down.
Yeah I lost it at the "cheating plum" part, Armchair superstar get a grip, 2116 looks like another doozey :P
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vh5150
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by vh5150 »

If the (very few) Irish want to whinge about the result at least whinge if winning tries came from forward passes or the ref not bowling you penalties. But to lose when the ref blew a homer, you had territory and procession stats and against 14 for 1/4 of the match then at a) acknowledge a fearsome and gutsy NZ defensive effort and b) go look in the mirror. Your team wasn't good enough today. But you have a decent team and good luck for the rest of your season.
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by MungoMan »

acenas of the day wrote:
SilverGrin wrote:
acenas of the day wrote:
Ted. wrote:There's more than a few fuckwits stinking the place up. I suspect it is just disappointment that has got them going, but it seems to be the same ones that react poorly. It's a shame, but there will always be a few from every side, we are certainly not immune.
Shut up you are so up yourself, you aint G Henry or S Hansen. Arrogant, boring poster. A wannabe humble bum stuck in the 1970s. And no one says pull your head in. Dont like you at all. You are Like a follower or seneca of the night. When I see your , turbogoat and yoyrmothers posts you always see arrogant , patronising post needlessly praising opposition when they cant even score s try vs 14 men for 20 mins. It makes you look arrogant.
Do fuck off.
NO. Go back to your crazy posts "silver"
Do fúck off X 2.
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by jdogscoop »

maxbox wrote:
SilverGrin wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:Last time NZ had a player sent off?..........1967 :lol:

World rugby in their pocket.

Unreal cynicism. ABs basically daring ref not to be a pussy.
I would love to know how many times the cheating plum have had concurrent yellows as well.
Wow. That's some pretty sour grapes right there. You lost, so it's because the AB's cheated and the ref was bent. Just wow.

You dogs should just fuck off to a soccer site where this shit is the norm. You really do bring the fans down.
Yeah I lost it at the "cheating plum" part, Armchair superstar get a grip, 2116 looks like another doozey :P
15 penalties to 4 and two yellow cards, and the cvnt still has the audacity to cry. Unbelievable.
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The Native
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by The Native »

If you read some of the tripe written thats coming out of Ireland about the game you can understand how the Irish lads on the bored believe the shite they're saying.
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RuggaBugga
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by RuggaBugga »

iarmhiman wrote:A few of the lads have been classless alright. Disappointing as the Kiwis were gracious after the game two weeks ago. I'm putting it down to alcohol. At the same time all you Kiwis are sober due to the early start. Never a good contrast.
I was on the piss like a trooper :thumbup:

Really enjoyed these two tests, easily the best of the year.

Ireland played with intent, competed hard at the ruck, strung phases together and ran hard at space. I love watching games where both teams are out to play attacking rugby.

Some of those tackles today were disappointing no doubt but I put it down to a combination of being too geed up after the loss and accidents. We don't generally play dirty rugby (anymore).

Some of the Irish twats on here though. Jesus Christ, show some f**king dignity you whining pussies. As sure as night follows day the conspiracy theories come out after a loss to the AB's, it's f**king pathetic :?
acenas of the day
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by acenas of the day »

Ive said some shocking things here that now I feel bad about although its just a internet forum. Well done to.both teams it was a great 2 games. Too much whinging from irish tho despite the ref letting them waste time in first test and no complaints from nz but now even though the ref helped ireland stay in the game most of the irish cant accept that their attack wasnt good enough vs 14 players.
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by jdogscoop »

waguser wrote:not read thread

but if we had won it that way I for one would be embarrassed

deliberate targetting with clothesline

poor show

weak ref
Jesus H. Christ. Lets hope this senior poster has had a ton of Guinness because that is fvcking embarrassing.
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RuggaBugga
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by RuggaBugga »

ZappaMan wrote:
indomite wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:Time for a Kiwi/Mick group hug?
Always, you beautiful thing.
I watched the match today at an extremely enjoyable Kiwi/Mick party. I was lucky enough to be in Chicago a fortnight ago where every single Kiwi I met joined us in celebration.

The internet can suck my balls.
Awesome. I'd be straight on the pron stars thread if I were you :thumbup:
Last edited by RuggaBugga on Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RuggaBugga
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by RuggaBugga »

acenas of the day wrote:
Ted. wrote:There's more than a few fuckwits stinking the place up. I suspect it is just disappointment that has got them going, but it seems to be the same ones that react poorly. It's a shame, but there will always be a few from every side, we are certainly not immune.
Shut up you are so up yourself, you aint G Henry or S Hansen. Arrogant, boring poster. A wannabe humble bum stuck in the 1970s. And no one says pull your head in. Dont like you at all. You are Like a follower or seneca of the night. When I see your , turbogoat and yoyrmothers posts you always see arrogant , patronising post needlessly praising opposition when they cant even score s try vs 14 men for 20 mins. It makes you look arrogant.
And here's one of our spackers to even up the ledger :roll:
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Botha Boy
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Botha Boy »

acenas of the day wrote:Ive said some shocking things here that now I feel bad about although its just a internet forum. Well done to.both teams it was a great 2 games. Too much whinging from irish tho despite the ref letting them waste time in first test and no complaints from nz but now even though the ref helped ireland stay in the game most of the irish cant accept that their attack wasnt good enough vs 14 players.


Yeah, indeed.

Gobshite ! :lol:
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Re: AIs: Ireland V New Zealand II Official Match Thread

Post by Lenny »

I take NZs indiscipline as a compliment to hard we made them play, and don't believe for a moment that they went out with some dastardly plan to injure any one. Generally tbey concede strategic penalties on their terms, but I think Ireland surprised them a bit today with their resilience, and by their refusal to fcuk off and die after the ABs whirlwind start. I think our limitations in attack were exposed by the pressure the ABs ultra aggressive defence exerted but we still had a chance at 14-9 to win the game. The difference between today and Chicago, outside of a much better AB performance, was that everything stuck for us in Chicago, and todayvery little stuck for us, but to a large extent we were as good as we were allowed to be.
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