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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Haven't switched off just yet but starting to lose interest. As mentioned the philosophy and character development is now secondary to lots of action sequences involving people we don't really know or give two shits about.

It could just be personnel. Only decent episode was directed by Lisa Joy and Nolan has also taken a relative step back from that and the writing.


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 2:11 pm 
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lemonhead wrote:
Haven't switched off just yet but starting to lose interest. As mentioned the philosophy and character development is now secondary to lots of action sequences involving people we don't really know or give two shits about.

It could just be personnel. Only decent episode was directed by Lisa Joy and Nolan has also taken a relative step back from that and the writing.

This. At least in the first series I knew pretty much who was who, in this one I don't know who-da-fvck most of them are anymore. I've never had anywhere near an absorbed interest in Westworld or most of the characters but it's just turning into unrepentant wankery. I appreciate and generally enjoy the vogue for TV where very little is explained and the viewer is made to think but I'd love more bare naked exposition as I really can't be arsed to look for and follow fan theories.

And it still needs more tits


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:19 am 
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Man In Black wrote:
deadduck wrote:
It seems like they've had to manufacture 10 hours of television from about 1 hour of plot for the season

Almost all the stuff that's happened so far seems like filler and the only plot line of consequence seems to be Bernard's.


Yup, which jumps back and forth so much its difficult to keep track of without referring to Reddit explainers.

What I'm left with is who do we care about? In any successful and popular show we have to have people to root for, even if it takes a long time to do so (for e.g. Jaime Lannister). Outside of MiB are there any characters we actually care about as viewers? Teddy? Elsie? His daughter shows promise I guess.

When you think, what's happened this season, it boils down to Dolores finding her dad and killing people, Maeve finding her daughter and developing super powers, Charlotte Hale being tough, Bernard slipping in and out of reality, MiB still on some path... none of these stories have really developed from the first ep. It's all just shuffling pieces across the board.



There's an awful lot of threads to weave back together in the last few episodes of the season for the story to have any purpose at all. To do that without it seeming cheap or contrived will be some achievement, but it seems more likely it will be the death knell for the show.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:44 am 
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Westworld Season 2 is some of the most turgid shit on television.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:54 am 
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Pretty poor stuff at the moment. I might abandon this mid season. Walking Dead style.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:21 pm 
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So episode 7 is fairly important for a few things but mostly not very good and fairly ridiculous. What's the point in introducing another group of bad ass soldiers when they're just going to get massacred the first fight they stumble into? And how do they end up so poorly trained that they let hosts live and get up close to remark at how beautiful they are?

All the timelines/realities are getting a bit cumbersome too.

James Marsden doesn't really work as a merciless killer either, and now Teddy is completely uninteresting. There's zero peril at all for Dolores et al, they're overpowered beyond belief.

It's keeping me hooked but some parts are very grating.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:15 pm 
Last episode wasn’t very good - 😞


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:40 pm 
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I enjoyed it, in an action movie kind of way. Not a lot of thought, but fun.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:25 pm 
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The takedown of the elite crack secret elite crack commandos was f'ing stupid especially the bit with the guy and Angela in the cradle (though I can forgive him being distracted by her epic bewbs).

The stuff with Bernard & Ford was interesting & does seem to be getting somewhere.

I was a bit confused with the William & Maeve parts - what happened to Hector, Armistice and Japanese Armistice?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:07 am 
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Angela was married to Elon Musk...twice! :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:14 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
The takedown of the elite crack secret elite crack commandos was f'ing stupid especially the bit with the guy and Angela in the cradle (though I can forgive him being distracted by her epic bewbs).

The stuff with Bernard & Ford was interesting & does seem to be getting somewhere.

I was a bit confused with the William & Maeve parts - what happened to Hector, Armistice and Japanese Armistice?


Was going to say, if the WW version of Pete Tranter's sister ditched the gun and came over to say hello I'd probably hear her out as well.

Felt like a clumsy episode but feck of a sight better than the last two.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:31 am 
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Aren't all the robots reprogrammed super soldiers now? Innately stronger (because they're robots), with the digital shackles off. That's how I've been taken their fights against the crack squadrons.

I haven't had chance to post in this for a couple of weeks, so to track back to last week episode, I too thought the Jap sidequest was a bit nonsense. Seemed to be made for Samurai fanbois who don't realise that katana's are shit brittle swords (i.e. all Americans, and Eug apparently)...and even if you were into it, we simply didn't spend enough time with the characters to care whether they lived or died.

Back to this week. At least they've solved the Anthony Hopkins shaped hole in the plot...by reintroducing Anthony Hopkins. And it's also good that we finally, just about, understand Bernard's timelines.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:36 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
Aren't all the robots reprogrammed super soldiers now? Innately stronger (because they're robots), with the digital shackles off. That's how I've been taken their fights against the crack squadrons.

I haven't had chance to post in this for a couple of weeks, so to track back to last week episode, I too thought the Jap sidequest was a bit nonsense. Seemed to be made for Samurai fanbois who don't realise that katana's are shit brittle swords (i.e. all Americans, and Eug apparently)...and even if you were into it, we simply didn't spend enough time with the characters to care whether they lived or died.

Back to this week. At least they've solved the Anthony Hopkins shaped hole in the plot...by reintroducing Anthony Hopkins. And it's also good that we finally, just about, understand Bernard's timelines.


Yep.

And now Ford is completely in the system (as part of Bernard).

How's old mate William thinking everyone is Ford.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:51 am 
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Zakar wrote:
I enjoyed it, in an action movie kind of way. Not a lot of thought, but fun.



The action scenes in particular, are shit.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:44 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
Aren't all the robots reprogrammed super soldiers now? Innately stronger (because they're robots), with the digital shackles off. That's how I've been taken their fights against the crack squadrons.


They're certainly very hard to kill - they're not quite Terminator level as their soft tissue does seem to matter, but they can take way more damage than a human and their markmanship & fighting abilities can be ramped up as we've seen (though that seems to require one of those control pads and Dolores needed a human to operate it), BUT this week they seemed to have an innate understanding of the commando's tactics and planning ability that doesn't quite ring true.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:48 am 
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Thomas wrote:
Yep.

And now Ford is completely in the system (as part of Bernard).

How's old mate William thinking everyone is Ford.


Yeah, I don't quite get how that works - "I can't leave the cradle or my mind will degrade....but I can if I go into your body along with your mind, despite Dolores' dad showing that too much information in a host will fudge it up royally....because....hey, look at this action scene!"

Also, Bernard just standing there in that fight scene in the control room was bloody stupid. Even if the hosts were somehow programmed not to attack him (which I can buy Ford being able to pull off), what about the Commandos (not all of them would recognise him) or y'know, what about stray bullets?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:56 am 
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The problem with shows like this is if the final episode is not written before the screening of the first it all just becomes a load of drivel written to keep the series going. Two episodes into season two the decision was made to continue into season 3. Season 3 no doubt will also be a load of drivel with no logical and natural end as they will no doubt hope to be taken up for a season 4.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:53 am 
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It's losing me. So good first season. So hard to understand, let alone get any enjoyment from following it now. Probably click-bait now for me.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:56 am 
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Peteray wrote:
It's losing me. So good first season. So hard to understand, let alone get any enjoyment from following it now. Probably click-bait now for me.

That's it. The show has gone the way of Lost.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
... And it's also good that we finally, just about, understand Bernard's timelines.

We do?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Peteray wrote:
It's losing me. So good first season. So hard to understand, let alone get any enjoyment from following it now. Probably click-bait now for me.

That's it. The show has gone the way of Lost.


It reminds me of Lost in that they dangled a potentially incredible storyline in front of us before disappearing up their own hole. Watching an elite swat team soldier decline a free shot at a robot who had just murdered most of his unit in favour of approaching her and trying to chat her up - well basically we should rename jumping the shark now as chatting up the host, it was that bad.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:52 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Peteray wrote:
It's losing me. So good first season. So hard to understand, let alone get any enjoyment from following it now. Probably click-bait now for me.

That's it. The show has gone the way of Lost.


It reminds me of Lost in that they dangled a potentially incredible storyline in front of us before disappearing up their own hole. Watching an elite swat team soldier decline a free shot at a robot who had just murdered most of his unit in favour of approaching her and trying to chat her up - well basically we should rename jumping the shark now as chatting up the host, it was that bad.


I dunno, those bewbs were pretty hypnotic...(and bigger than usual, could she inflate them at will, prior to sending herself to jihadi host paradise?)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:08 am 
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tabascoboy wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
... And it's also good that we finally, just about, understand Bernard's timelines.

We do?


Pretty much.

This is a good insight and has a neat chronological graphic.

http://www.thisisinsider.com/westworld-timeline-spoilers-2018-4


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:43 am 
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Actually, I think the Lost comparisons are unfair (or, more particularly, are not quite correct in what the comparison is). I'd bet very good money that the ending of the show has already been written, alongside all the major arcs (the intertwined timelines alone suggest a serious amount of planning).

Where I think Lost comparisons ar correct, is in the way the writers have tried (too hard) to create a 'fog of mystery' that at once hides the true path of the sow, while also (supposedly) suckng you in week after week to see what the answers are.

That graphic in the link is a good example of how it's been more fog than mystery this season, as we're seemingly dealing in, what, 8 odd timelines...you actually do need a graphic to help you along, which is bullshit to the layman who just wants to be entertained.

In summary, the story has been made way more complex than it needed to be.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:57 am 
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Thomas wrote:
tabascoboy wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
... And it's also good that we finally, just about, understand Bernard's timelines.

We do?


Pretty much.

This is a good insight and has a neat chronological graphic.

http://www.thisisinsider.com/westworld-timeline-spoilers-2018-4

Cheers, as I said before I haven't been into the show so much I cared to think deeply about it!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:30 am 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Peteray wrote:
It's losing me. So good first season. So hard to understand, let alone get any enjoyment from following it now. Probably click-bait now for me.

That's it. The show has gone the way of Lost.


It reminds me of Lost in that they dangled a potentially incredible storyline in front of us before disappearing up their own hole. Watching an elite swat team soldier decline a free shot at a robot who had just murdered most of his unit in favour of approaching her and trying to chat her up - well basically we should rename jumping the shark now as chatting up the host, it was that bad.


Who said they were an elite team of swat? We're they not just better private security? Facing robots with insane pain tolerance, strength etc and their skills increased to max...That's not the part I had suspension of belief issues with.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:33 am 
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Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:41 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


Maeve did it, and if Dolores did it for teddy... why would they not do it for all? Just because you didn't actively see it? It's completly illogical, if they had the means of course they would increase their skills.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:01 am 
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Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


Maeve did it, and if Dolores did it for teddy... why would they not do it for all? Just because you didn't actively see it? It's completly illogical, if they had the means of course they would increase their skills.


I'm not saying it hasn't been done to the other hosts, but given how major a plot point it was with Teddy (and only being done cause he was too merciful and with the assistance of a human), I don't think we should just assume it was done to everyone else off screen. And Teddy seems to be a better shot than the other hosts.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:14 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


Maeve did it, and if Dolores did it for teddy... why would they not do it for all? Just because you didn't actively see it? It's completly illogical, if they had the means of course they would increase their skills.


I'm not saying it hasn't been done to the other hosts, but given how major a plot point it was with Teddy (and only being done cause he was too merciful and with the assistance of a human), I don't think we should just assume it was done to everyone else off screen. And Teddy seems to be a better shot than the other hosts.


The plot point with teddy was that they were changing his personality not his skills.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:20 am 
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Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


Maeve did it, and if Dolores did it for teddy... why would they not do it for all? Just because you didn't actively see it? It's completly illogical, if they had the means of course they would increase their skills.


I'm not saying it hasn't been done to the other hosts, but given how major a plot point it was with Teddy (and only being done cause he was too merciful and with the assistance of a human), I don't think we should just assume it was done to everyone else off screen. And Teddy seems to be a better shot than the other hosts.


The plot point with teddy was that they were changing his personality not his skills.


Yeah, but my point was it was the only behavioral mod we've seen Dolores' bunch do, and it was presented as a big deal - sure that's cause Teddy is an actual character and there was a betrayal involved, but regardless it was shown as major enough that I don't think we'd assume it was done off screen to everyone else.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:34 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


Maeve did it, and if Dolores did it for teddy... why would they not do it for all? Just because you didn't actively see it? It's completly illogical, if they had the means of course they would increase their skills.


I'm not saying it hasn't been done to the other hosts, but given how major a plot point it was with Teddy (and only being done cause he was too merciful and with the assistance of a human), I don't think we should just assume it was done to everyone else off screen. And Teddy seems to be a better shot than the other hosts.


The plot point with teddy was that they were changing his personality not his skills.


Yeah, but my point was it was the only behavioral mod we've seen Dolores' bunch do, and it was presented as a big deal - sure that's cause Teddy is an actual character and there was a betrayal involved, but regardless it was shown as major enough that I don't think we'd assume it was done off screen to everyone else.


We've also seen her bring hosts back to life with it. I'm definitely in the camp that reckons she upgraded skills on everyone, but probably not personality (except for Teddy).


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:18 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
The problem with shows like this is if the final episode is not written before the screening of the first it all just becomes a load of drivel written to keep the series going. Two episodes into season two the decision was made to continue into season 3. Season 3 no doubt will also be a load of drivel with no logical and natural end as they will no doubt hope to be taken up for a season 4.



When I was 11 my English teacher taught us 'write the ending first'. Its fking annoying and also clumsily shoe-horning things in now to make the ending work is amatuerish.

I'm still interested though but mainly to see if they can make it make sense in the end. Despite what Ford said, I wonder is the whole thing going to end up having been Bernard's idea from the start, his route to immortality. Maybe he even created Ford (but set it up so Ford thinks he did it all).

I would almost respect them though it they ended with 'it was all dream', just for the epic fanboi meltdown.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:26 am 
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MrJonno wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
The problem with shows like this is if the final episode is not written before the screening of the first it all just becomes a load of drivel written to keep the series going. Two episodes into season two the decision was made to continue into season 3. Season 3 no doubt will also be a load of drivel with no logical and natural end as they will no doubt hope to be taken up for a season 4.



When I was 11 my English teacher taught us 'write the ending first'. Its fking annoying and also clumsily shoe-horning things in now to make the ending work is amatuerish.

I'm still interested though but mainly to see if they can make it make sense in the end. Despite what Ford said, I wonder is the whole thing going to end up having been Bernard's idea from the start, his route to immortality. Maybe he even created Ford (but set it up so Ford thinks he did it all).

I would almost respect them though it they ended with 'it was all dream', just for the epic fanboi meltdown.


It was all a dream is very possible, just make out that it was all in a cradle, and there's multiple cradles running multiple "realities".


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
MrJonno wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
The problem with shows like this is if the final episode is not written before the screening of the first it all just becomes a load of drivel written to keep the series going. Two episodes into season two the decision was made to continue into season 3. Season 3 no doubt will also be a load of drivel with no logical and natural end as they will no doubt hope to be taken up for a season 4.



When I was 11 my English teacher taught us 'write the ending first'. Its fking annoying and also clumsily shoe-horning things in now to make the ending work is amatuerish.

I'm still interested though but mainly to see if they can make it make sense in the end. Despite what Ford said, I wonder is the whole thing going to end up having been Bernard's idea from the start, his route to immortality. Maybe he even created Ford (but set it up so Ford thinks he did it all).

I would almost respect them though it they ended with 'it was all dream', just for the epic fanboi meltdown.


It was all a dream is very possible, just make out that it was all in a cradle, and there's multiple cradles running multiple "realities".

...in an infinite number of universes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Raggs wrote:

We've also seen her bring hosts back to life with it. I'm definitely in the camp that reckons she upgraded skills on everyone, but probably not personality (except for Teddy).


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:23 pm 
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MrJonno wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
The problem with shows like this is if the final episode is not written before the screening of the first it all just becomes a load of drivel written to keep the series going. Two episodes into season two the decision was made to continue into season 3. Season 3 no doubt will also be a load of drivel with no logical and natural end as they will no doubt hope to be taken up for a season 4.



When I was 11 my English teacher taught us 'write the ending first'. Its fking annoying and also clumsily shoe-horning things in now to make the ending work is amatuerish.

I'm still interested though but mainly to see if they can make it make sense in the end. Despite what Ford said, I wonder is the whole thing going to end up having been Bernard's idea from the start, his route to immortality. Maybe he even created Ford (but set it up so Ford thinks he did it all).

I would almost respect them though it they ended with 'it was all dream', just for the epic fanboi meltdown.



Perhaps they have been replacing people in the real world and there are more 'Bernard'' in positions of power and influence in the normal world.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:43 pm 
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The Committee of 300 Bernards?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Does all this sound like watchable, entertaining TV? No. It makes GOT look as simple as ABC. I said it was losing me, and I am even more confused after this episode. I'll probably keep watching though, in the hope of ........................ clarity.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Peteray wrote:
Does all this sound like watchable, entertaining TV? No. It makes GOT look as simple as ABC. I said it was losing me, and I am even more confused after this episode. I'll probably keep watching though, in the hope of ........................ clarity.


GOT is harder to keep track of in my mind, since there's far more factions, and it can be entire episodes before you get back to someones story. Westworld is a bit complex, but far from impossible in my mind.


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