Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

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Peteray
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Peteray »

Raggs wrote:
Peteray wrote:Does all this sound like watchable, entertaining TV? No. It makes GOT look as simple as ABC. I said it was losing me, and I am even more confused after this episode. I'll probably keep watching though, in the hope of ........................ clarity.
GOT is harder to keep track of in my mind, since there's far more factions, and it can be entire episodes before you get back to someones story. Westworld is a bit complex, but far from impossible in my mind.
It is entirely possible of course, that I'm just dumb, but a couple of good UK universities seemed to think I had a few brains. It just seems a bit like a multi-level, multi-dimensional, psychotic, hypochondriac, claustrophobic, bloody car-park ................. in the sky! I'm so confused :roll:
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Raggs
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Raggs »

Peteray wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Peteray wrote:Does all this sound like watchable, entertaining TV? No. It makes GOT look as simple as ABC. I said it was losing me, and I am even more confused after this episode. I'll probably keep watching though, in the hope of ........................ clarity.
GOT is harder to keep track of in my mind, since there's far more factions, and it can be entire episodes before you get back to someones story. Westworld is a bit complex, but far from impossible in my mind.
It is entirely possible of course, that I'm just dumb, but a couple of good UK universities seemed to think I had a few brains. It just seems a bit like a multi-level, multi-dimensional, psychotic, hypochondriac, claustrophobic, bloody car-park ................. in the sky! I'm so confused :roll:
Oh it's not completely straight forward by any means, but it's all basically focused around the park, with a few key players to keep track of. GoT for me at least, has a ton of players, in different locations with different story arcs, that sometimes never interact, whilst also having some timeline issues. I guess because Westworld is deliberately trying to confuse with the timeline stuff (William/man in black, Bernard/Arnold, Bernard/Memories etc) I actually find it a bit easier, I'm not supposed to understand everything, and the story leads me through, giving me points at which it becomes clear as to what was actually going on before. GoT mostly seems to expect me to keep track of all the different factions and their offspring, the interactions each causes on the reasonably fluid alliances, whilst spread over several major stories that have only just started to come together a little.
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Peteray
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Peteray »

Raggs wrote:
Peteray wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Peteray wrote:Does all this sound like watchable, entertaining TV? No. It makes GOT look as simple as ABC. I said it was losing me, and I am even more confused after this episode. I'll probably keep watching though, in the hope of ........................ clarity.
GOT is harder to keep track of in my mind, since there's far more factions, and it can be entire episodes before you get back to someones story. Westworld is a bit complex, but far from impossible in my mind.
It is entirely possible of course, that I'm just dumb, but a couple of good UK universities seemed to think I had a few brains. It just seems a bit like a multi-level, multi-dimensional, psychotic, hypochondriac, claustrophobic, bloody car-park ................. in the sky! I'm so confused :roll:
Oh it's not completely straight forward by any means, but it's all basically focused around the park, with a few key players to keep track of. GoT for me at least, has a ton of players, in different locations with different story arcs, that sometimes never interact, whilst also having some timeline issues. I guess because Westworld is deliberately trying to confuse with the timeline stuff (William/man in black, Bernard/Arnold, Bernard/Memories etc) I actually find it a bit easier, I'm not supposed to understand everything, and the story leads me through, giving me points at which it becomes clear as to what was actually going on before. GoT mostly seems to expect me to keep track of all the different factions and their offspring, the interactions each causes on the reasonably fluid alliances, whilst spread over several major stories that have only just started to come together a little.
Egzakery :lol:
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by lemonhead »

Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:Yeah, but my point was it was the only behavioral mod we've seen Dolores' bunch do, and it was presented as a big deal - sure that's cause Teddy is an actual character and there was a betrayal involved, but regardless it was shown as major enough that I don't think we'd assume it was done off screen to everyone else.
We've also seen her bring hosts back to life with it. I'm definitely in the camp that reckons she upgraded skills on everyone, but probably not personality (except for Teddy).
There is also the question of how well Wyatt's cult soldiers were kitted out in the first place, if we presume Ford was planning for the war ahead.

Never quite got why Teddy, the guest girl and sheriff's bullets all had no effect on them in Season 1, which had me thinking whether they were ever under the cradle's control or partly off grid like his happy host family living in the log cabin.
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Bullettyme
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Bullettyme »

Just watches s2 e8. Probably the best episode thus far in the season, and I'd wager that it would be up there with one of the best episodes over the entire 2 seasons, well acted, well shot, well scored, explains a few things. Brilliant.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by MrJonno »

Bullettyme wrote:Just watches s2 e8. Probably the best episode thus far in the season, and I'd wager that it would be up there with one of the best episodes over the entire 2 seasons, well acted, well shot, well scored, explains a few things. Brilliant.
Anything with the Cool Irish Injun from Fargo is always going to work
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Bullettyme
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Bullettyme »

I didn't realise he was Irish too, that is indeed cool.
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Mr. Very Popular
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Mr. Very Popular »

Didn’t realise there was a thread for this, last episode was just unreal, I normally half watch it while arsing about on my phone, didn’t touch the phone during this episode as I didn’t want to miss a second, the screen presence of the Indian lad was mesmerising.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by MrJonno »

Bullettyme wrote:I didn't realise he was Irish too, that is indeed cool.

Not just Irish, but proud of it
Yeah, well I’m proud of my Irish heritage just as I’m proud of my Native heritage. I’m proud of both.
https://uproxx.com/tv/zahn-mcclarnon-ha ... interview/


I now want him to win Westworld with Thandie Newton to come in second
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Bullettyme
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Bullettyme »

After that amazing episode he's winning in our hearts and may even have the moral victory sown up too.
Sonny Blount
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Sonny Blount »

Again, latest episode absolute garbage.

I do not care to meet new characters that do not materially advance the plot.

Are they simple over budget on their actors salaries and they are giving feature episodes to everyone they can think of?
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Thomas
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Thomas »

Sonny Blount wrote:Again, latest episode absolute garbage.

I do not care to meet new characters that do not materially advance the plot.

Are they simple over budget on their actors salaries and they are giving feature episodes to everyone they can think of?
New characters? Have you even watched the show? Aketcha has been a part of the show since Season 1 (with Maeve having flashbacks etc). And that episode didn't materially advance the plot....it explained the whole premise. Ake is a tool of Ford and he has a higher purpose. Also Maeve is the goddamn wi-fi queen.

Personally, I thought that was one of the best episodes of TV I have watched in a long, long time. It completely drew me in. To me it was perfectly acted and shot and the ending...yeah, that was so, so good.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Sonny Blount »

Thomas wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:Again, latest episode absolute garbage.

I do not care to meet new characters that do not materially advance the plot.

Are they simple over budget on their actors salaries and they are giving feature episodes to everyone they can think of?
New characters? Have you even watched the show? Aketcha has been a part of the show since Season 1 (with Maeve having flashbacks etc). And that episode didn't materially advance the plot....it explained the whole premise.
Yes I've watched every episode of the show and the first season twice.

It was a new focus on Aketcha and we have not met his family before.

I distrust it like the episode on the Samurais, introduced and discarded simply to bloat out another episode.
Ake is a tool of Ford and he has a higher purpose.
Which is plot wise absolutely nothing.
Also Maeve is the goddamn wi-fi queen.
Not new and boring.

The whole 10 episodes so far this season could have been done in 1 episode.
Personally, I thought that was one of the best episodes of TV I have watched in a long, long time. It completely drew me in. To me it was perfectly acted and shot and the ending...yeah, that was so, so good.
It was weak sauce. The premise behind the characters motivations are weak sauce.


Thankfully, my friend has The Expanse season 3 and that show actually scales through the seasons.
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Thomas
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Thomas »

We now know who Aketcha is and what his motivation is. The fact he's running a mysterious sect of other Ghost Nation warriors who Ford has told will need to stop the Deathbringer (Dolores) means a hell of a lot. They're saving both hosts and guests.

The whole story of his family may seem like pap to you but it's given us an understanding that the hosts can remember ALL of their previous lives and goes some way to explaining their savagery towards guests. It was heartbreaking.

The bit towards the end with Maeve was great. He wasn't talking to the little girl, he was talking to Maeve. He's going to look after her daughter. Now Maeve doesn't need to waste time searching for her girl, she's going to go on a rampage.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Sonny Blount »

Thomas wrote:We now know who Aketcha is and what his motivation is. The fact he's running a mysterious sect of other Ghost Nation warriors who Ford has told will need to stop the Deathbringer (Dolores) means a hell of a lot. They're saving both hosts and guests.

The whole story of his family may seem like pap to you but it's given us an understanding that the hosts can remember ALL of their previous lives and goes some way to explaining their savagery towards guests. It was heartbreaking.

The bit towards the end with Maeve was great. He wasn't talking to the little girl, he was talking to Maeve. He's going to look after her daughter. Now Maeve doesn't need to waste time searching for her girl, she's going to go on a rampage.

Hosts remembering trauma from past 'lives' for emotive effect has been going on since episode 2 of season 1 or thereabouts right?

So we're at hosts and guests killing various and sundry with no stakes apparent for the viewer, Ford uploaded to the cradle, and certain actors trying to obtain a maguffin (access to data). As we were at the final episode of season 1.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by tabascoboy »

I just wish this was all leading to a definite conclusion at the end of this season instead of going on for another one...and then maybe another and another.

I can fully understand why this episode was appreciated ( and having read reviews which explain the story's significance in terms of the whole ) but it didn't do a lot for me no matter how well acted and directed. I just cant really engage and get into this series at all even though I have tried. If season 3 is the final one I'll grind it out but otherwise it's surely just going to be rinse and repeat ad infinitum until the network pulls the plug and they're forced to wrap it up.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Brazil »

tabascoboy wrote:I just wish this was all leading to a definite conclusion at the end of this season instead of going on for another one...and then maybe another and another.

I can fully understand why this episode was appreciated ( and having read reviews which explain the story's significance in terms of the whole ) but it didn't do a lot for me no matter how well acted and directed. I just cant really engage and get into this series at all even though I have tried. If season 3 is the final one I'll grind it out but otherwise it's surely just going to be rinse and repeat ad infinitum until the network pulls the plug and they're forced to wrap it up.
I think it's got a lifespan of three series realistically. There have been a lot of comparisons to Lost, but at least with Westworld there's a thematic and structural consistency across the series that suggests there's a coherent arc to the story rather than the writers making it up on the hoof.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Boobs not Moobs »

THis is a good up to date summary. The Arnold bit at the end should have been put in earlier but other than that it's good. Has spoilers for yesterday's episode if you haven't seen it.

https://screenrant.com/westworld-season ... explained/
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Traveller »

Brazil wrote:I think it's got a lifespan of three series realistically.
You could very well be right, but it's hard to imagine it not suffering the same fate as so many other US TV shows. As long as it's still making money, they'll keep making more series, regardless of the effect that has on the quality.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Nolanator »

Finally up to date with this. That last episode (8?, the one that explains loads) was good. I certainly appreciated some direct "this is what's happening" after jumping all over the place with timelines etc.

Still confused as hell, though. :thumbup:
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Traveller »

Just watched the last episode, not going to leave any spoilers here as I guess most folk haven't seen it yet but fark me! If there's a third season I'm out...
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nardol
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by nardol »

screw this shite im out.

That last episode cleared up nothing and im now more confused than I have been at any stage.



Done with this.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Bullettyme »

I was pretty underwhelmed with that final episode.

So now the Man in Black timeline is a completely other time in the distant future and/or another world.

I hate Dolores. Really hate her. Even the whole mannerisms and cliches she comes out with. They even had the Hale/Dolores host speak that shite. And the whole "not killing Bernard" thing was a cop out imo, anyway, sets it up for future seasons.

Meh. See you next season.
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Boobs not Moobs
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Boobs not Moobs »

THat was really unsatisfying, what a crap reveal, wasn't really a reveal. It was a mess.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by C69 »

The lack of flesh this season was a minor irritant compared with with the schizoid time frame and psuedo-intellectual paradigm shifts.
Get fecked HBO.


I will of course watch the next season :blush:
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by eugenius »

Enjoyed it thoroughly- silly as it often was.
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Post by Jeff the Bear »

So, I'm not entirely sure how to take the last episode. One thing that seemed to stand out to me, was after an entire season of time-frame fuckery, and coy asides...the exposition became very on the nose. Everything was spelt out by one character or another. Given how confusing it's been, I wasn't sure whether to be happy or a bit sad.

Although I liked the idea of the reveal, I'm not entirely happy with the way it was done. Still tricksy, as per the rest of the season...and the ending was a bit underwhelming. Doleres' sudden conversion to merciful robot didnt seeem to hold much weight.
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Post by Thomas »

Everyone watched the 3-4 minute clip after the credits, right?
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Post by Jeff the Bear »

Thomas wrote:Everyone watched the 3-4 minute clip after the credits, right?
Say wot now?
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Thomas »

Jeff the Bear wrote:
Thomas wrote:Everyone watched the 3-4 minute clip after the credits, right?
Say wot now?

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Holy shit.

There's a MASSIVE reveal after the credits. About 3 minutes of footage and dialogue with two characters.

I lost my shit.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

The thing about the jumbled time frames is that it didn't actually pay off all that much - especially compared to season 1.

I mean, we got one significant reveal from it - the
Spoiler: show
Dolores/Charlotte thing
and that's it.

It was still pretty good overall but nowhere near as good as S1 and there seemed to be a shitload of unnecessarily mysterious scenes throughout.
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Post by deadduck »

Maeve's gang seemed to reappear from absolutely nowhere at a convenient time for some tedious slow motion gunplay

And what was the point of Man in Black's story arc in Season 2? It seemed entirely inconsequential, other than the fact that he's now completely f**ked up his life. But he was never a sympathetic character anyway
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Post by Thomas »

deadduck wrote:Maeve's gang seemed to reappear from absolutely nowhere at a convenient time for some tedious slow motion gunplay

And what was the point of Man in Black's story arc in Season 2? It seemed entirely inconsequential, other than the fact that he's now completely f**ked up his life. But he was never a sympathetic character anyway
You've seen the clip at the end of the episode, right?
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Post by Raggs »

Bullettyme wrote:I was pretty underwhelmed with that final episode.

So now the Man in Black timeline is a completely other time in the distant future and/or another world.

I hate Dolores. Really hate her. Even the whole mannerisms and cliches she comes out with. They even had the Hale/Dolores host speak that shite. And the whole "not killing Bernard" thing was a cop out imo, anyway, sets it up for future seasons.

Meh. See you next season.
I'd say it was more that his fidelity testing told us the story of the park, with filled in details from Dolores and Bernard. It clearly hasn't been that long since the park ended though, since his daughter hasn't aged that much.

Not killing Bernard seemed to be about trying to differentiate between what a human would have done, and what a host would do. Dolores might be thinking that even if she get's wiped out, Bernard may survive due to him trying to stop her and being on the other side.

I do wonder who the other hosts that Dolores brought with her are though. Teddy is in the valley beyond. Maeve? She's clearly put someone new into Hale's body.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by deadduck »

Thomas wrote:
deadduck wrote:Maeve's gang seemed to reappear from absolutely nowhere at a convenient time for some tedious slow motion gunplay

And what was the point of Man in Black's story arc in Season 2? It seemed entirely inconsequential, other than the fact that he's now completely f**ked up his life. But he was never a sympathetic character anyway
You've seen the clip at the end of the episode, right?
Just watched it .

Still not sure about what it means.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Thomas »

Raggs wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:I was pretty underwhelmed with that final episode.

So now the Man in Black timeline is a completely other time in the distant future and/or another world.

I hate Dolores. Really hate her. Even the whole mannerisms and cliches she comes out with. They even had the Hale/Dolores host speak that shite. And the whole "not killing Bernard" thing was a cop out imo, anyway, sets it up for future seasons.

Meh. See you next season.
I'd say it was more that his fidelity testing told us the story of the park, with filled in details from Dolores and Bernard. It clearly hasn't been that long since the park ended though, since his daughter hasn't aged that much.
Uh, she's dead. That's a host, I'm pretty sure.

The Forge is run down and everything is in ruin. That scene was set a long time in the future, possibly after the hosts take control. Lisa Joy (executive producer and co-creator) has said that scene is in the far, far future.

I loved the bit between Hale and Stubbs at the end. Either he knows she's a host, he's a host as well or both.
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Raggs »

Thomas wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:I was pretty underwhelmed with that final episode.

So now the Man in Black timeline is a completely other time in the distant future and/or another world.

I hate Dolores. Really hate her. Even the whole mannerisms and cliches she comes out with. They even had the Hale/Dolores host speak that shite. And the whole "not killing Bernard" thing was a cop out imo, anyway, sets it up for future seasons.

Meh. See you next season.
I'd say it was more that his fidelity testing told us the story of the park, with filled in details from Dolores and Bernard. It clearly hasn't been that long since the park ended though, since his daughter hasn't aged that much.
Uh, she's dead. That's a host, I'm pretty sure.

The Forge is run down and everything is in ruin. That scene was set a long time in the future, possibly after the hosts take control.

I loved the bit between Hale and Stubbs at the end. Either he knows she's a host, he's a host as well or both.
She did get shot up didn't she... you could be right, but then why continue to try and bring back a human if the hosts are in control?

He knows she's a host, he just kept making the point too often for it not to be the case. I do wonder about him being a host as well though, was he just using host specific language to make the point to her that he knew, or was it trying to include himself in it.
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Post by Raggs »

Just seen your edit about it being far in the future. Interesting... why would the hosts want him back though? They can read his story if they want to know how he thinks. Could be the humans fighting back? Getting back one of the irredeemables (that was the word the system used right?), safe in the knowledge that even in a hosts body he'll not think like a host, and try and fight them?
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Post by deadduck »

The time line only makes sense if William is long dead and his mind is already in a host body
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Re: Official Westworld Thread - Spoilers everywhere!

Post by Thomas »

Raggs wrote:Just seen your edit about it being far in the future. Interesting... why would the hosts want him back though? They can read his story if they want to know how he thinks. Could be the humans fighting back? Getting back one of the irredeemables (that was the word the system used right?), safe in the knowledge that even in a hosts body he'll not think like a host, and try and fight them?
She didn't look too unhappy that he wasn't doing too good.

Maybe this is his punishment for his sins? His purgatory?
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