NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 15:15

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DragsterDriver
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by DragsterDriver »

CM11 wrote:How Furlong goes in the scrums will be largely irrelevant. He's shown he can scrum well and against the ABs. The ABs themselves aren't a scrummaging side and won't learn how to become one in 6 months. As such, Furlong's power, workrate and mobility will be a vital cog if the Lions are to stand a chance.
I'm all aboard the hype train :thumbup:

Mcgrath and furlong.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by redderneck »

Just in the door. I would just like it to be known that I don't have a gin &tonic on me at the moment t. Which is unusual.

Not a fit state to muse on anything specific but will.say that I never thought I'd see the day when a Tigers side would be so dam n passive. I'm a bit gobsmacked tbh.

Never a pen try for me BTW. Don't think Taute would have got there.

Need a cup of team. Bye.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by nuffsaid »

Well played Munster - excellent energy and application.

Tiggers very poor and brainless today, but could have played well and still lost - they were well beaten by a superb team effort, but I thought Stander was, err.... outstanding.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Lazy Couch potato »

Just home myself. What a performance but I was surprised how poor tigers were. We played poite like a violin..... great to see the nous returning. What impressed me most was the intensity of rucking and the ferocity of the defence.


I'd probably agree on the penalty try. Thems the breaks I suppose
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Larry Murphy »

redderneck wrote:Just in the door. I would just like it to be known that I don't have a gin &tonic on me at the moment t. Which is unusual.

Not a fit state to muse on anything specific but will.say that I never thought I'd see the day when a Tigers side would be so dam n passive. I'm a bit gobsmacked tbh.

Never a pen try for me BTW. Don't think Taute would have got there.

Need a cup of team. Bye.
They were shit..... But next week is another week. Win that and I think we will qualify. Our pack/9/10 are on fire...... Warms the cockles
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Lazy Couch potato »

We really strangled them but they didn't turn up at all. It's one thing winning at home (fantastic to feel the buzz back btw) but I'd don't feel we'll go anywhere if we can't back it up and win in welford road now.


Hard to know what'll happen with racing now.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Regarding Youngs v Murray, Youngs' last two tests were excellent and he's had a few other corkers in the last year and a bit - his MOTM for the crazy game last time we were at Twickenham for France was entirely deserved. Having said that the majority of Lions teams I've seen have been working on the assumption that Murray would start, rightly IMO.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Chuckles1188 »

:lol:
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fishfoodie
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by fishfoodie »

Chuckles1188 wrote:Regarding Youngs v Murray, Youngs' last two tests were excellent and he's had a few other corkers in the last year and a bit - his MOTM for the crazy game last time we were at Twickenham for France was entirely deserved. Having said that the majority of Lions teams I've seen have been working on the assumption that Murray would start, rightly IMO.
I think Murray is 100% Gatlands preferred model of SH. Youngs is excellent when he clicks, but there have been just too many games in the last couple of years when he hasn't.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Dork Lard »

Congratulations to the Munster fans. I've got personal ties with that province, have known to genuinely appreciate the people there whenever I've gone. Very real, simple, no bullshiit. No nonsense, non-pretentious. It's great to see the Rugby over there thrive when things seemed a bit bleak lately. This year marks a huge comeback for sure. Well done :thumbup:
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by IBWT »

fishfoodie wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Regarding Youngs v Murray, Youngs' last two tests were excellent and he's had a few other corkers in the last year and a bit - his MOTM for the crazy game last time we were at Twickenham for France was entirely deserved. Having said that the majority of Lions teams I've seen have been working on the assumption that Murray would start, rightly IMO.
I think Murray is 100% Gatlands preferred model of SH. Youngs is excellent when he clicks, but there have been just too many games in the last couple of years when he hasn't.
As Gatland said himself, Murray started the last Lions tour as 3rd choice and ended it as 1st choice. Gatland really likes him. Long way to go though.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Brumby_in_Vic »

Never a pen try for me BTW. Don't think Taute would have got there.
Yeah it was. Taute was tackled off the ball and wasn't given a chance to ground it. The Laws take the offending player out of the equation as if he/she wasn't there. That's what occurred in the Munster v NZ Maori match.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Brumby_in_Vic »

lemonhead wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:
RWC2015 wrote:
Premier Red wrote:With Sailli off contract at season end, it wouldn't surprise me to see Jaco back at start of next year (there's no doubt they've tried to get a pass from the irfu on this already I believe) particularly, if i'm not mistaken, western province are in big financial difficulty and in liquidation......he's the new Halstead and has really bought into Munster big time.
Munster + Taute. It just works.
Like boiled ham and cabbage :thumbup:
Didn't hear the interviews with Rassie but looks like it's no secret.

http://www.the42.ie/jaco-taute-munster- ... 3-Dec2016/
and that his surname doesn't rhyme with Sauté

WP/Stormers are better off releasing him from his contract, financially and regular playing opportunities. Might not be good news for Farrell and Arnold having moved to Munster out of a backlog at Ulster then find themselves fighting for a bench spot.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Nieghorn »

Just watching the highlights, and I wondered if Austin is a fan of Community. He said Munster were "streets ahead"! :D https://youtu.be/g5TTwN7vsjs?t=7m52s

... if you have to ask, you're streets behind.
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Boxcar Ira
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Boxcar Ira »

Chuckles1188 wrote:Regarding Youngs v Murray, Youngs' last two tests were excellent and he's had a few other corkers in the last year and a bit - his MOTM for the crazy game last time we were at Twickenham for France was entirely deserved. Having said that the majority of Lions teams I've seen have been working on the assumption that Murray would start, rightly IMO.
Whoever is picked it won't be based on a head to head between the two where one pack was completely on top. I like Youngs but can't judge him on yesterday's performance.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Crash_12 »

CM11 wrote:How Furlong goes in the scrums will be largely irrelevant. He's shown he can scrum well and against the ABs. The ABs themselves aren't a scrummaging side and won't learn how to become one in 6 months. As such, Furlong's power, workrate and mobility will be a vital cog if the Lions are to stand a chance.
Well, never thought I'd see such nonsense from you.

Emabarrassing performance from Leicester, back to the drawing board for them. I think the players and management should be taking a good hard look at themselves. You have to feel Cockerill is on borrowed time, the gameplan he's implementing is making good players like Cole, Youngs et al look like muck.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Munster-fogs »

Dork Lard wrote:Congratulations to the Munster fans. I've got personal ties with that province, have known to genuinely appreciate the people there whenever I've gone. Very real, simple, no bullshiit. No nonsense, non-pretentious. It's great to see the Rugby over there thrive when things seemed a bit bleak lately. This year marks a huge comeback for sure. Well done :thumbup:
:thumbup:
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by CM11 »

Crash_12 wrote:
CM11 wrote:How Furlong goes in the scrums will be largely irrelevant. He's shown he can scrum well and against the ABs. The ABs themselves aren't a scrummaging side and won't learn how to become one in 6 months. As such, Furlong's power, workrate and mobility will be a vital cog if the Lions are to stand a chance.
Well, never thought I'd see such nonsense from you.

Emabarrassing performance from Leicester, back to the drawing board for them. I think the players and management should be taking a good hard look at themselves. You have to feel Cockerill is on borrowed time, the gameplan he's implementing is making good players like Cole, Youngs et al look like muck.
Wut?

I never said they couldn't scrum, just that they're not a side which would be renowned for aggressive scrummaging. They do enough to make sure they can get the ball out quickly and securely but don't usually go after opposition scrums. They're unlikely to unveil a scrummager in the next 6 months who's going to be so good that they can take advantage of Furlong's relative inexperience.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Crash_12 »

They're the most complete side I've seen in my lifetime. They can do everything, include shove teams off their own scrum ball. They've dished out several pastings to the Argie and Staffa units over the last 2/3 years.

I feel your unintentionally crafting a rod for Furlong's back.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Lenny »

Crash_12 wrote:They're the most complete side I've seen in my lifetime. They can do everything, include shove teams off their own scrum ball. They've dished out several pastings to the Argie and Staffa units over the last 2/3 years.

I feel your unintentionally crafting a rod for Furlong's back.
I must admit that when I think of the current ABs scrummaging is way down the list of potential threats they possess. Neither Franks nor Moody is a destructive scrummager, and Ireland dealt with them comfortably in both games. I'm not convinced that SAs scrum is the benchmark it was in the past so I wouldn't be relying on them to measure the quality of the ABs scrum.

If the Lions had a truly destructive tighthead then I would go with him against what I think is a potential weakness in the ABs armoury, but Cole isnt that man, and while Nel has shown signs of it in the past year he has been fairly unconvincing, for a number of reasons, this season.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by grimoald »

Nieghorn wrote:Just watching the highlights, and I wondered if Austin is a fan of Community. He said Munster were "streets ahead"! :D https://youtu.be/g5TTwN7vsjs?t=7m52s

... if you have to ask, you're streets behind.
Streets ahead is a common term, Harmon was a dick/moron in that interaction.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

If questions needed to be asked of Jim Mallinder following Northampton’s heavy defeat by Leinster at Franklins Gardens on Friday night, they certainly do of Richard Cockerill following this humbling defeat for his Leicester Tigers team at the hands of a resurgent Munster at Thomond Park.

What a rout. The gulf in class, in intensity, was eye-watering, and it ended up yielding a couple of unwanted records, at least from Leicester’s perspective. This was the two-time champion’s heaviest margin of defeat in their proud European history. It was also the first time they had failed to register a point in a match in 13 years.
Torygraph.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by lorcanoworms »

Crash_12 wrote:
CM11 wrote:How Furlong goes in the scrums will be largely irrelevant. He's shown he can scrum well and against the ABs. The ABs themselves aren't a scrummaging side and won't learn how to become one in 6 months. As such, Furlong's power, workrate and mobility will be a vital cog if the Lions are to stand a chance.
Well, never thought I'd see such nonsense from you.

Emabarrassing performance from Leicester, back to the drawing board for them. I think the players and management should be taking a good hard look at themselves. You have to feel Cockerill is on borrowed time, the gameplan he's implementing is making good players like Cole, Youngs et al look like muck.
Furlong suffered a bit in SA when without Quin Roux's bulk and yet had no real trouble against NZ in fact Ireland should have been awarded a penalty try and not just a penalty from one scrum.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by redderneck »

Lads, in the cold light of a gin hangover day, and taking the scorelines of Tigers v Glasgow and ourselves; I find myself reluctantly concluding that Cockerill is doing a French style 'fulfil the fixture' job on the Euro competition. He's choosing to fight his bread and butter fight. Husband his resources for one front as his rebuilding phase moves along.

I just cannot process the passivity yesteday in any other way which makes sense.

I reckon the AP sides bar Sarries who have the resources to service two campaigns, have followed the ruthlessly logical French approach...???
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Rumham »

lorcanoworms wrote:
Crash_12 wrote:
CM11 wrote:How Furlong goes in the scrums will be largely irrelevant. He's shown he can scrum well and against the ABs. The ABs themselves aren't a scrummaging side and won't learn how to become one in 6 months. As such, Furlong's power, workrate and mobility will be a vital cog if the Lions are to stand a chance.
Well, never thought I'd see such nonsense from you.

Emabarrassing performance from Leicester, back to the drawing board for them. I think the players and management should be taking a good hard look at themselves. You have to feel Cockerill is on borrowed time, the gameplan he's implementing is making good players like Cole, Youngs et al look like muck.
Furlong suffered a bit in SA when without Quin Roux's bulk and yet had no real trouble against NZ in fact Ireland should have been awarded a penalty try and not just a penalty from one scrum.
He is growing very quickly as excellent young players do. It is less than 12 months since he was dicked over in Paris playing a big part in the loss.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Boxcar Ira »

redderneck wrote:Lads, in the cold light of a gin hangover day, and taking the scorelines of Tigers v Glasgow and ourselves; I find myself reluctantly concluding that Cockerill is doing a French style 'fulfil the fixture' job on the Euro competition. He's choosing to fight his bread and butter fight. Husband his resources for one front as his rebuilding phase moves along.

I just cannot process the passivity yesteday in any other way which makes sense.

I reckon the AP sides bar Sarries who have the resources to service two campaigns, have followed the ruthlessly logical French approach...???
Yeah they didn't look remotely interested. How many high balls did they not even bother contesting? You could be right that it is only Sarries who have any interest in fighting on two fronts here.

But next week should be different. On their home patch and a lot of wounded pride it will a different side hopefully.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by redderneck »

Boxcar Ira wrote:
redderneck wrote:Lads, in the cold light of a gin hangover day, and taking the scorelines of Tigers v Glasgow and ourselves; I find myself reluctantly concluding that Cockerill is doing a French style 'fulfil the fixture' job on the Euro competition. He's choosing to fight his bread and butter fight. Husband his resources for one front as his rebuilding phase moves along.

I just cannot process the passivity yesteday in any other way which makes sense.

I reckon the AP sides bar Sarries who have the resources to service two campaigns, have followed the ruthlessly logical French approach...???
Yeah they didn't look remotely interested. How many high balls did they not even bother contesting? You could be right that it is only Sarries who have any interest in fighting on two fronts here.

But next week should be different. On their home patch and a lot of wounded pride it will a different side hopefully.
Oh next week will be a dogfight for sure. Even the 'not bothered' French sides fight to protect their home records and keep their punters sweet. It's just it seems clear to me Tigers didn't really give a shit; much and all as I'd like to think they did and we were just that good. This simply ain't the case...
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DragsterDriver
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by DragsterDriver »

For me, tigers weren't trying. The return game should show if they're genuinely trying to get Cockhead sacked.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by redderneck »

DragsterDriver wrote:For me, tigers weren't trying. The return game should show if they're genuinely trying to get Cockhead sacked.
I have a problem generally with player power muscle flexing. Rarely ends well and it's a shit sign when something gets so bad that it seems the logical solution. But I'd almost hope this might be the case here because the alternative is less palatable for Irish sides:

The English clubs have gone the way of the French, with only one Sarries/Toulon fully intent 9n fighting on two fronts; perhaps 2 more who will give it a.crack early on and reevaluate mid - group. The rest ticking boxes on away games and only caring about home fixtures.

My belief has been that the Spivs had zero intention of improving the European tournament nor of making it more fair or balanced. My gut feel is that they wanted most of all to depower and depopularise it so that the primacy of their domestic competition would go unchallenged. Pure and simple.

Shower of qweents.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by JM2K6 »

redderneck wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:For me, tigers weren't trying. The return game should show if they're genuinely trying to get Cockhead sacked.
I have a problem generally with player power muscle flexing. Rarely ends well and it's a shit sign when something gets so bad that it seems the logical solution. But I'd almost hope this might be the case here because the alternative is less palatable for Irish sides:

The English clubs have gone the way of the French, with only one Sarries/Toulon fully intent 9n fighting on two fronts; perhaps 2 more who will give it a.crack early on and reevaluate mid - group. The rest ticking boxes on away games and only caring about home fixtures.

My belief has been that the Spivs had zero intention of improving the European tournament nor of making it more fair or balanced. My gut feel is that they wanted most of all to depower and depopularise it so that the primacy of their domestic competition would go unchallenged. Pure and simple.

Shower of qweents.
I love how you've gone from your totally unsupported pet theory about Leicester's woes into a full power conspiracy theory whinge :lol:
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by redderneck »

But of course. It's a Sunday. Another week another winday and I have a gin hangover.

What else is there left to do?

The dog is walked. The shit is shat. Thoughts naturally turn to a spiv spitroast.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Boxcar Ira »

Wasps seem keen to be fair. I'd almost forgotten about them.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by SamShark »

redderneck wrote:But of course. It's a Sunday. Another week another winday and I have a gin hangover.

What else is there left to do?

The dog is walked. The shit is shat. Thoughts naturally turn to a spiv spitroast.
I see your problem - your list doesn't feature masturbation (or cold remedies) which would alleviate some of the need for conspiracy, as long as it wasn't a very angry wank looking at a picture of Bruce Craig.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by redderneck »

SamShark wrote:
redderneck wrote:But of course. It's a Sunday. Another week another winday and I have a gin hangover.

What else is there left to do?

The dog is walked. The shit is shat. Thoughts naturally turn to a spiv spitroast.
I see your problem - your list doesn't feature masturbation (or cold remedies) which would alleviate some of the need for conspiracy, as long as it wasn't a very angry wank looking at a picture of Bruce Craig.
Thank you Dr.Sam. I trust you'll take a bunch of unwashed sold clagged carrots by way of payment? I'm waiting on my medical card.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by JM2K6 »

Boxcar Ira wrote:Wasps seem keen to be fair. I'd almost forgotten about them.
Wasps, Leicester and Northampton have great history with European rugby - no chance they'd just decide to downplay it. The simple truth is both Tigers and Saints have been sliding for a while. It just gets exposed harder at European level, which is exactly how it should be.

I'd also say it's hardly a vintage year for the English league either; while we've seen Newcastle and Worcs improve it's not really making up for Saints / Tigers / Quins / Glaws / Exeter all being a bit pony and Bath still not back to the form of 2 years ago.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Petej »

redderneck wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:For me, tigers weren't trying. The return game should show if they're genuinely trying to get Cockhead sacked.
I have a problem generally with player power muscle flexing. Rarely ends well and it's a shit sign when something gets so bad that it seems the logical solution. But I'd almost hope this might be the case here because the alternative is less palatable for Irish sides:

The English clubs have gone the way of the French, with only one Sarries/Toulon fully intent 9n fighting on two fronts; perhaps 2 more who will give it a.crack early on and reevaluate mid - group. The rest ticking boxes on away games and only caring about home fixtures.

My belief has been that the Spivs had zero intention of improving the European tournament nor of making it more fair or balanced. My gut feel is that they wanted most of all to depower and depopularise it so that the primacy of their domestic competition would go unchallenged. Pure and simple.

Shower of qweents.
I think that is rubbish i don't think there is an intention to make European competition worse. Tigers just aren't very good this year plus a long list of injuries (JP Pietersen, Toomua, Tait Vieanu, Cole, Ayerza, Barrow, M Williams) and an uninspiring director of rugby. I'm not sure the decision to have an additional autumn international helps the English sides with their preparation either.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Boxcar Ira »

JM2K6 wrote:
Boxcar Ira wrote:Wasps seem keen to be fair. I'd almost forgotten about them.
Wasps, Leicester and Northampton have great history with European rugby - no chance they'd just decide to downplay it. The simple truth is both Tigers and Saints have been sliding for a while. It just gets exposed harder at European level, which is exactly how it should be.

I'd also say it's hardly a vintage year for the English league either; while we've seen Newcastle and Worcs improve it's not really making up for Saints / Tigers / Quins / Glaws / Exeter all being a bit pony and Bath still not back to the form of 2 years ago.
Good to hear they wouldn't be down playing it. Clubs like that losing interest would be dreadful for rugby in Europe. I fully expect Leicester to come out swinging next week anyway. They seemed to be missing a few quality players as well most notably Cole.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by Chuckles1188 »

It's just conceivable that Cockers decided this game wasn't worth taking too seriously but I do find it hard to believe given Leicester's history and the expectations of the fanbase, and he would have wanted them to be reasonably tough to crack instead of a total pushover. Northampton are just in the middle of a humongous slide, Chiefs haven't quite got back up to the level they were operating at last season (where they were a bit of an outside shot for qualification in any event at this stage of the season), and Sale are... well they are Sale. I don't think there's much of an issue around spivvery, just teams underperforming which is hardly a novel development for any nation, never mind England
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by redderneck »

Relax gentlemen. I'm too fecking hungover to spin this line out any further today :blush:

I have no doubt the backlash will be savage.
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Re: NTHCBSBH Munster v Leicester Tigers, Sat Dec 10th, KO 1

Post by fisgard792 »

tigers have been beaten heavily in ireland before and won the return, although well behind on the 2 games aggregate

indeed, deano lost his job after a heavy defect at ulster back in '04

it happens. the issue for me, is that i dont see many players in the team, that i would call tigers players. you never hear of the wednesday bust up's at the oval anymore.
perhaps its unfair, but the recent imports don't seem to fully there
maybe everybody else has gone well past, in the physicality stakes, and the game has moved on. saracens have whatever 'it' is, and a lot of times, wasps too.

they miss stand out players in certain positions. some players just havent kicked on, couple of years ago, they supposedly had 3 england locks.
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