Cockers gooooooone

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Chuckles1188
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

plum-pudding wrote:doubt Thacker will stick around- off to Worcester apparently
Hah! Naturally.
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Torquemada 1420
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

openclashXX wrote:guys like Croft and Tuilagi have been kept on reasonably large salaries despite delivering f*ck all over the past few years, there was the mismanagement of George Ford in favour of Toby Flood (who then f*cked off anyway), there's been signings like Jean de Villiers and JP Pietersen who were past their prime two World Cups ago let alone in 2016, some really odd signings like Opeti Fonua and those two French blokes Mele and Schuster (sp?), the constant chopping and changing at fly-half between Burns and Williams

the best signing for Tigers over the past few seasons is probably Veainu and that strikes me as one that Mauger made through his NZ links rather than Cockers, other than that it's been largely below-par or past-their-prime players with the odd permacrock thrown in

not really an issue if their academy was churning out players to compensate but Tigers' relationship with their academy has been tragic for a number of years
I thought Mele put in a decent enough stint at Leicester? And he was hardly big budget material any more than Shuster would have been although the latter was an odd one: did he play more than a handful of games?
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globus
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by globus »

Looks like this is a "throwaway" year for Tiggers. I bet the "re-building" card will be played soon.

All clubs, back into eternity, go through this.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Selim The Sot »

This thread is chronically lacking Mr 4071, who would normally be expected to pop in to utterly refute/support Chuck/Korn with his big book of Tiger stats. WTF is the forensic Cockers detractor?
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

kornboy130 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:So the Leicester Way, fabled in song and story, is wanting to win games really really badly.

By the way, Leicester have topped the try-scoring charts and won the premiership in the same season exactly once under Cockerill. And the second time he won it they came in with a magisterial 46 tries, or two less than Wasps have scored halfway through this season. The stats don't exactly scream "all-singing all-dancing backline"
Honestly that's slightly less ridiculous than your initial assertion - and you've made this as an oh so insightful quip. Let me answer your initial question directly - no it would not be fair to label the "Leicester Way" as you had because it isn't supported by evidence.

Different team environments have different tolerances for loss and different attitudes regarding openness about failure, being straight talking etc etc - Leicester classically has been towards the harder end of this.

I don't have time right this second to check the try scoring charts from year to year but will do later - though I believe in the Matt O'Connor years we topped it twice(?) Or atleast were pretty competitive in that area or not off the pace.

As for the comparison with Wasps this year - what even is the point of that comparison? If you can only support your point by selecting one historic year against another teams current year statistics which are of exactly no relevance then you've been spending too much time on the "post fact" threads on here.
PR's take
Worse, their up-the-jumper-and-kick-at-the-sticks philosophy looks a little lumpen in this age of total rugby.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by pieman99 »

Selim The Sot wrote: I think Cockerill knew the game was up, and though he made all the right noises he appeared to be almost reconciled to his fate and seemed to practically demob happy of late.
He did seem quite cheerful at the sarries match, and was chortling at the decision to kick instead of reset the scrum just before half time.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Rugbyken »

after the munster game it was stated that 7 of the top ten earning players at the club were out injured , i know all clubs have to 'handle' the injury situation , but a couple of years ago the club or rather cohen made a statement regarding managing expectation meaning in the middle of building the new stand the old granby hall site next door was put up for sale , the club had to take the opportunity to aqquire this at the time , there are issues with the lease agreement on the training facilities running out and the earmarked alternative site has problems, this has meant without funds to compete tigers have lost quality players such as salvey waldron parting to exeter & rabeni to newcastle, crane to bristol etc
there was a comment earlier about uncertainty over burns or williams only couple of seasons ago same dilemma with flood and ford lost both of them , this from a club whose identity used to be the 'tigers family'most players that joined were developed and retired from there then went into the back rooms , with the advent of professionalism that all changed once deano got the sack & there were rumours of club politics causing his departure even back then,
the tigers since professional rugby was introduced have never finished below sixth while only glos bath and wasps have also never been relegated they have all flirted with relagation, wasps four years ago were only saved because the falcons did not beat them by enough to change points difference now they sit top of the pile , if your head is above the parapet for that long people are going to be queuing up to lop it off , tigers will still be here in ten or fifty years time will these clubs with a sugar daddy be able to say the same,
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

good post rugbyken i think the reality is that at most other clubs cockers would still be there until the day he drops dead but leicester demand a little extra so he had to go plus the backroom situation sounds awful they really need to sort out some decent squad depth and make sure they are using their resources well which sad to say probably means cutting manu and croft adrift simply on the grounds that both are expensive and barely contribute to the side they also need to take a look at their academy structure and output and decide whether it's really worth the investment if they're so concerned about overheads that they have had to jettison s and c staff then that certainly won't help with the injury crises
you mention waldrom but in reality he was never seen as a particularly major force when he was at tigers it was only when he went to chiefs and starting scoring tries for fun that it became clear just what he can offer it's funny really because at the moment chiefs are essentially what tigers want to be a club with a fiercely passionate local following a sturdy take no steps back pack and some invention out wide so if i was the new guy i would be taking a close look at how exeter are going about things and looking to emulate that as opposed for instance to scouring the back pages looking for a big name they might snap up to inject some pizzazz into the team because to be honest that doesn't really seem like a sustainable or even especially successful approach at this point
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

On reflection I should probably have inserted a spelling mistake or two in there
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Wendigo7 »

This the most incoherent rambling you've done on here Chuckles.

I'm pleased we are showing you the light.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Every omitted comma, full stop and capitalised letter was like a set of steel fingernails scraping, agonisingly, down the blackboard of my soul
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by globus »

Chuckles1188 wrote:Every omitted comma, full stop and capitalised letter was like a set of steel fingernails scraping, agonisingly, down the blackboard of my soul
And mine.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Smee »

Ken or another Leicester type, are the Tigers still training in Oadby?
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by kornboy130 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:Thacker and Roberts both appear to be good value.

I thought we were talking about Cockerill. Obviously it would be ridiculous to disparage the Tigers of the Richards era for being mindless boshers.
I have been. You've lost me now.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by kornboy130 »

Smee wrote:Ken or another Leicester type, are the Tigers still training in Oadby?
Yes.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

kornboy130 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Thacker and Roberts both appear to be good value.

I thought we were talking about Cockerill. Obviously it would be ridiculous to disparage the Tigers of the Richards era for being mindless boshers.
I have been. You've lost me now.
"The Matt O'Connor years"
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by fisgard792 »

kornboy130 wrote:
Smee wrote:Ken or another Leicester type, are the Tigers still training in Oadby?
Yes.
grew up very close to the oval, tigers own that land don't they. worth a few bob, who ever does.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Rugbyken »

part of the problem! the oval is still owned by junior club oadby-wiggs leased on a ground share deal although tigers have bought? the old stoneygate ground up covert lane , they have not been popular tenants at the oval and they wont let them off their lease without financial recompense, the covert lane ground is figuring in council plans to complete a ring road theoretically so of course not willing to develop it without clarity,
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Smee »

Rugbyken wrote:part of the problem! the oval is still owned by junior club oadby-wiggs leased on a ground share deal although tigers have bought? the old stoneygate ground up covert lane , they have not been popular tenants at the oval and they wont let them off their lease without financial recompense, the covert lane ground is figuring in council plans to complete a ring road theoretically so of course not willing to develop it without clarity,
Interesting. Didnt realize that Gate sold their ground to Tigers. They play in Uppingham nowadays dont they? Was a merger with Jimmies ever mooted?
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Flack »

globus wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Every omitted comma, full stop and capitalised letter was like a set of steel fingernails scraping, agonisingly, down the blackboard of my soul
And mine.
Mine also.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by kornboy130 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
kornboy130 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Thacker and Roberts both appear to be good value.

I thought we were talking about Cockerill. Obviously it would be ridiculous to disparage the Tigers of the Richards era for being mindless boshers.
I have been. You've lost me now.
"The Matt O'Connor years"
Matt O'Connor was only ever a coach at Tigers during the Cockerill Era... are you confused or am I? Genuine question.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Possibly both tbf. But Cockers' premiership wins were rarely, if ever, built on the back of tries scored
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by WoodlandsRFC »

Chuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
Who gives a fudge about an Oxford comma.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Margin_Walker »

Chuckles1188 wrote:Possibly both tbf. But Cockers' premiership wins were rarely, if ever, built on the back of tries scored
That's more than a touch revisionist. They went 3 seasons from 10/11 scoring more TBPs than any other team in the league.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by ManInTheBar »

WoodlandsRFC wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
Who gives a f**k about an Oxford comma.
"WoodlandsRFC likes nothing more than to help his uncle jack off his horse"

Though that is more about capitals
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Openside »

ManInTheBar wrote:
WoodlandsRFC wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
Who gives a f**k about an Oxford comma.
"WoodlandsRFC likes nothing more than to help his uncle jack off his horse"

Though that is more about capitals
OK own up who else googled, yahoo'd, and Binged the Oxford comma ;)
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by kornboy130 »

Margin_Walker wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Possibly both tbf. But Cockers' premiership wins were rarely, if ever, built on the back of tries scored
That's more than a touch revisionist. They went 3 seasons from 10/11 scoring more TBPs than any other team in the league.
Merci.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Selim The Sot »

kornboy130 wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:Possibly both tbf. But Cockers' premiership wins were rarely, if ever, built on the back of tries scored
That's more than a touch revisionist. They went 3 seasons from 10/11 scoring more TBPs than any other team in the league.
Merci.
Though it could have been the case, a mass of TBPs doesn't automatically mean that they were the end result of a particularly dynamic playing style. Waldrom has been the leading individual try scorer for that period but the raw stat says nothing about how they were obtained. Curiously, considering that RC was primarily a forwards coach, Leicester were never able to consistently exploit this ability to anywhere near the same extent, but that might have been because they were preoccupied with perfecting dazzling back play. :D
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Rugbyken »

a merger had been discussed almost since leagues first started , but most were of the opinion that there were so many old school around that we would end up with three clubs not one, both clubs in the eighties used to run 4/5 sides now jimmies only get two and gate one, the old gate would number a side by some mythical standard so as a fourth team you would be facing their ninth team, they would only have three other sides out but the team would be judged to be of that standard ! bizarre, although locally most of the bigger clubs are reduced in numbers because they have to commit subs to league games etc we do have a few more village clubs i.e. newly started ,instead of the normal cycles of dominant teams the better players now gravitate to the highest standing team i appreciate the day's of teams staying in clubs socialising and singing after games has gone but for me that was the majic in rugby!
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by BurrowHill »

The financial situation was touched upon earlier in this thread so I thought I would post this, which sums it up pretty well. It seems if Leicester are to survive they are going to have to finally succumb and be dragged kicking and screaming into the land of club ownership. Thanks Bath/Sarries et al. :?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... CSPTEML866
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by A5D5E5 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
Why would you need to have an internal debate regarding using an Oxford comma in a list where it would simply be a stylistic affectation? Such as
Chuckles1188 wrote:Every omitted comma, full stop and capitalised letter ...
I use them when it aids clarity, but not otherwise. I never have to debate this with myself.
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Chuckles1188
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

A5D5E5 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
Why would you need to have an internal debate regarding using an Oxford comma in a list where it would simply be a stylistic affectation? Such as
Chuckles1188 wrote:Every omitted comma, full stop and capitalised letter ...
I use them when it aids clarity, but not otherwise. I never have to debate this with myself.
Because said stylistic affectation would have emphasised the contrast between that post and the one entirely lacking in punctuation which preceded it.

Also, and I appreciate this is a bit of a shock, it was just a joke
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by A5D5E5 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
Why would you need to have an internal debate regarding using an Oxford comma in a list where it would simply be a stylistic affectation? Such as
Chuckles1188 wrote:Every omitted comma, full stop and capitalised letter ...
I use them when it aids clarity, but not otherwise. I never have to debate this with myself.
Because said stylistic affectation would have emphasised the contrast between that post and the one entirely lacking in punctuation which preceded it.

Also, and I appreciate this is a bit of a shock, it was just a joke
Fair enough. Next time you post a joke though could you give me due warning so I don't make a twat of myself again. Should I set a reminder for 2019?
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Chuckles1188
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Chuckles1188 »

On the basis that it's a good idea to have a reminder at least three years before the event itself occurs, yes
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Petej »

BurrowHill wrote:The financial situation was touched upon earlier in this thread so I thought I would post this, which sums it up pretty well. It seems if Leicester are to survive they are going to have to finally succumb and be dragged kicking and screaming into the land of club ownership. Thanks Bath/Sarries et al. :?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... CSPTEML866
Good article. It would be sad to see Tigers and other clubs go this way but with the top two as it is it seems the only way to be competitive. Be interesting to see if Exeter's players can resist the inevitable overtures from Bath, $aracen$ and Wasps.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Raggs »

BurrowHill wrote:The financial situation was touched upon earlier in this thread so I thought I would post this, which sums it up pretty well. It seems if Leicester are to survive they are going to have to finally succumb and be dragged kicking and screaming into the land of club ownership. Thanks Bath/Sarries et al. :?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... CSPTEML866
Don't Tigers still have one of the largest turnovers out there? Even taking into account the debts other clubs build up?
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by kornboy130 »

kornboy130 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:So the Leicester Way, fabled in song and story, is wanting to win games really really badly.

By the way, Leicester have topped the try-scoring charts and won the premiership in the same season exactly once under Cockerill. And the second time he won it they came in with a magisterial 46 tries, or two less than Wasps have scored halfway through this season. The stats don't exactly scream "all-singing all-dancing backline"
Honestly that's slightly less ridiculous than your initial assertion - and you've made this as an oh so insightful quip. Let me answer your initial question directly - no it would not be fair to label the "Leicester Way" as you had because it isn't supported by evidence.

Different team environments have different tolerances for loss and different attitudes regarding openness about failure, being straight talking etc etc - Leicester classically has been towards the harder end of this.

I don't have time right this second to check the try scoring charts from year to year but will do later - though I believe in the Matt O'Connor years we topped it twice(?) Or atleast were pretty competitive in that area or not off the pace.

As for the comparison with Wasps this year - what even is the point of that comparison? If you can only support your point by selecting one historic year against another teams current year statistics which are of exactly no relevance then you've been spending too much time on the "post fact" threads on here.
I've had time to look at the stats now and when you compare their try scoring stats to those of other teams during Cockerill's time in charge - often they compare favourably. So again in answer to your initial question - yes it would be unfair given that under him the team has often outscored opponents on tries over the course of the season (and indeed topped the table in that sense on numerous occasions) and his success record speaks for itself. So "the tigers way" is most certainly not as you described.

I'm sad I had to dedicate time to that.
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by Saint »

Raggs wrote:
BurrowHill wrote:The financial situation was touched upon earlier in this thread so I thought I would post this, which sums it up pretty well. It seems if Leicester are to survive they are going to have to finally succumb and be dragged kicking and screaming into the land of club ownership. Thanks Bath/Sarries et al. :?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... CSPTEML866
Don't Tigers still have one of the largest turnovers out there? Even taking into account the debts other clubs build up?
If Tigers need a Sugar Daddy then god knows what Saints need
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Re: Cockers gooooooone

Post by BurrowHill »

Raggs wrote:
BurrowHill wrote:The financial situation was touched upon earlier in this thread so I thought I would post this, which sums it up pretty well. It seems if Leicester are to survive they are going to have to finally succumb and be dragged kicking and screaming into the land of club ownership. Thanks Bath/Sarries et al. :?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... CSPTEML866
Don't Tigers still have one of the largest turnovers out there? Even taking into account the debts other clubs build up?
Yes, I believe their turnover is still by quite some distance the best in England, maybe even Europe. However, I imagine they are still feeling the effects of building the new 10,000 capacity members stand (formerly CAT stand but called something else these days) in 2009ish, and have just built the new south stand a year ago as well. Plus they are looking at a new training ground and multi-story car park.

This sacking has, for some reason, strengthened discontent amongst supporters that the board are treating the club more and more like a business rather than a club. Not to mention the frankly bizarre hastily held "supporters forum" earlier this week where a select number of fans were invited to a meeting with CEO Simon Cohen to discuss the situation. The line is that they were given the "blunt" answers to their questions but were sworn to secrecy. This has really riled up a lot of fans. Particularly when you think that the club is a plc and many fans, including myself, who weren't at this "meeting" are actually shareholders.
Last edited by BurrowHill on Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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