Re: Cockers gooooooone
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:01 pm
Hah! Naturally.plum-pudding wrote:doubt Thacker will stick around- off to Worcester apparently
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Hah! Naturally.plum-pudding wrote:doubt Thacker will stick around- off to Worcester apparently
I thought Mele put in a decent enough stint at Leicester? And he was hardly big budget material any more than Shuster would have been although the latter was an odd one: did he play more than a handful of games?openclashXX wrote:guys like Croft and Tuilagi have been kept on reasonably large salaries despite delivering f*ck all over the past few years, there was the mismanagement of George Ford in favour of Toby Flood (who then f*cked off anyway), there's been signings like Jean de Villiers and JP Pietersen who were past their prime two World Cups ago let alone in 2016, some really odd signings like Opeti Fonua and those two French blokes Mele and Schuster (sp?), the constant chopping and changing at fly-half between Burns and Williams
the best signing for Tigers over the past few seasons is probably Veainu and that strikes me as one that Mauger made through his NZ links rather than Cockers, other than that it's been largely below-par or past-their-prime players with the odd permacrock thrown in
not really an issue if their academy was churning out players to compensate but Tigers' relationship with their academy has been tragic for a number of years
PR's takekornboy130 wrote:Honestly that's slightly less ridiculous than your initial assertion - and you've made this as an oh so insightful quip. Let me answer your initial question directly - no it would not be fair to label the "Leicester Way" as you had because it isn't supported by evidence.Chuckles1188 wrote:So the Leicester Way, fabled in song and story, is wanting to win games really really badly.
By the way, Leicester have topped the try-scoring charts and won the premiership in the same season exactly once under Cockerill. And the second time he won it they came in with a magisterial 46 tries, or two less than Wasps have scored halfway through this season. The stats don't exactly scream "all-singing all-dancing backline"
Different team environments have different tolerances for loss and different attitudes regarding openness about failure, being straight talking etc etc - Leicester classically has been towards the harder end of this.
I don't have time right this second to check the try scoring charts from year to year but will do later - though I believe in the Matt O'Connor years we topped it twice(?) Or atleast were pretty competitive in that area or not off the pace.
As for the comparison with Wasps this year - what even is the point of that comparison? If you can only support your point by selecting one historic year against another teams current year statistics which are of exactly no relevance then you've been spending too much time on the "post fact" threads on here.
Worse, their up-the-jumper-and-kick-at-the-sticks philosophy looks a little lumpen in this age of total rugby.
He did seem quite cheerful at the sarries match, and was chortling at the decision to kick instead of reset the scrum just before half time.Selim The Sot wrote: I think Cockerill knew the game was up, and though he made all the right noises he appeared to be almost reconciled to his fate and seemed to practically demob happy of late.
And mine.Chuckles1188 wrote:Every omitted comma, full stop and capitalised letter was like a set of steel fingernails scraping, agonisingly, down the blackboard of my soul
I have been. You've lost me now.Chuckles1188 wrote:Thacker and Roberts both appear to be good value.
I thought we were talking about Cockerill. Obviously it would be ridiculous to disparage the Tigers of the Richards era for being mindless boshers.
Yes.Smee wrote:Ken or another Leicester type, are the Tigers still training in Oadby?
"The Matt O'Connor years"kornboy130 wrote:I have been. You've lost me now.Chuckles1188 wrote:Thacker and Roberts both appear to be good value.
I thought we were talking about Cockerill. Obviously it would be ridiculous to disparage the Tigers of the Richards era for being mindless boshers.
grew up very close to the oval, tigers own that land don't they. worth a few bob, who ever does.kornboy130 wrote:Yes.Smee wrote:Ken or another Leicester type, are the Tigers still training in Oadby?
Interesting. Didnt realize that Gate sold their ground to Tigers. They play in Uppingham nowadays dont they? Was a merger with Jimmies ever mooted?Rugbyken wrote:part of the problem! the oval is still owned by junior club oadby-wiggs leased on a ground share deal although tigers have bought? the old stoneygate ground up covert lane , they have not been popular tenants at the oval and they wont let them off their lease without financial recompense, the covert lane ground is figuring in council plans to complete a ring road theoretically so of course not willing to develop it without clarity,
Mine also.globus wrote:And mine.Chuckles1188 wrote:Every omitted comma, full stop and capitalised letter was like a set of steel fingernails scraping, agonisingly, down the blackboard of my soul
Matt O'Connor was only ever a coach at Tigers during the Cockerill Era... are you confused or am I? Genuine question.Chuckles1188 wrote:"The Matt O'Connor years"kornboy130 wrote:I have been. You've lost me now.Chuckles1188 wrote:Thacker and Roberts both appear to be good value.
I thought we were talking about Cockerill. Obviously it would be ridiculous to disparage the Tigers of the Richards era for being mindless boshers.
Who gives a fudge about an Oxford comma.Chuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
That's more than a touch revisionist. They went 3 seasons from 10/11 scoring more TBPs than any other team in the league.Chuckles1188 wrote:Possibly both tbf. But Cockers' premiership wins were rarely, if ever, built on the back of tries scored
"WoodlandsRFC likes nothing more than to help his uncle jack off his horse"WoodlandsRFC wrote:Who gives a f**k about an Oxford comma.Chuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
OK own up who else googled, yahoo'd, and Binged the Oxford commaManInTheBar wrote:"WoodlandsRFC likes nothing more than to help his uncle jack off his horse"WoodlandsRFC wrote:Who gives a f**k about an Oxford comma.Chuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
Though that is more about capitals
Merci.Margin_Walker wrote:That's more than a touch revisionist. They went 3 seasons from 10/11 scoring more TBPs than any other team in the league.Chuckles1188 wrote:Possibly both tbf. But Cockers' premiership wins were rarely, if ever, built on the back of tries scored
Though it could have been the case, a mass of TBPs doesn't automatically mean that they were the end result of a particularly dynamic playing style. Waldrom has been the leading individual try scorer for that period but the raw stat says nothing about how they were obtained. Curiously, considering that RC was primarily a forwards coach, Leicester were never able to consistently exploit this ability to anywhere near the same extent, but that might have been because they were preoccupied with perfecting dazzling back play.kornboy130 wrote:Merci.Margin_Walker wrote:That's more than a touch revisionist. They went 3 seasons from 10/11 scoring more TBPs than any other team in the league.Chuckles1188 wrote:Possibly both tbf. But Cockers' premiership wins were rarely, if ever, built on the back of tries scored
Why would you need to have an internal debate regarding using an Oxford comma in a list where it would simply be a stylistic affectation? Such asChuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
I use them when it aids clarity, but not otherwise. I never have to debate this with myself.Chuckles1188 wrote:Every omitted comma, full stop and capitalised letter ...
Because said stylistic affectation would have emphasised the contrast between that post and the one entirely lacking in punctuation which preceded it.A5D5E5 wrote:Why would you need to have an internal debate regarding using an Oxford comma in a list where it would simply be a stylistic affectation? Such asChuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
I use them when it aids clarity, but not otherwise. I never have to debate this with myself.Chuckles1188 wrote:Every omitted comma, full stop and capitalised letter ...
Fair enough. Next time you post a joke though could you give me due warning so I don't make a twat of myself again. Should I set a reminder for 2019?Chuckles1188 wrote:Because said stylistic affectation would have emphasised the contrast between that post and the one entirely lacking in punctuation which preceded it.A5D5E5 wrote:Why would you need to have an internal debate regarding using an Oxford comma in a list where it would simply be a stylistic affectation? Such asChuckles1188 wrote:I genuinely spent a couple of seconds while composing that last post debating internally over whether to use the Oxford comma. It was like therapy.
I use them when it aids clarity, but not otherwise. I never have to debate this with myself.Chuckles1188 wrote:Every omitted comma, full stop and capitalised letter ...
Also, and I appreciate this is a bit of a shock, it was just a joke
Good article. It would be sad to see Tigers and other clubs go this way but with the top two as it is it seems the only way to be competitive. Be interesting to see if Exeter's players can resist the inevitable overtures from Bath, $aracen$ and Wasps.BurrowHill wrote:The financial situation was touched upon earlier in this thread so I thought I would post this, which sums it up pretty well. It seems if Leicester are to survive they are going to have to finally succumb and be dragged kicking and screaming into the land of club ownership. Thanks Bath/Sarries et al.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... CSPTEML866
Don't Tigers still have one of the largest turnovers out there? Even taking into account the debts other clubs build up?BurrowHill wrote:The financial situation was touched upon earlier in this thread so I thought I would post this, which sums it up pretty well. It seems if Leicester are to survive they are going to have to finally succumb and be dragged kicking and screaming into the land of club ownership. Thanks Bath/Sarries et al.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... CSPTEML866
I've had time to look at the stats now and when you compare their try scoring stats to those of other teams during Cockerill's time in charge - often they compare favourably. So again in answer to your initial question - yes it would be unfair given that under him the team has often outscored opponents on tries over the course of the season (and indeed topped the table in that sense on numerous occasions) and his success record speaks for itself. So "the tigers way" is most certainly not as you described.kornboy130 wrote:Honestly that's slightly less ridiculous than your initial assertion - and you've made this as an oh so insightful quip. Let me answer your initial question directly - no it would not be fair to label the "Leicester Way" as you had because it isn't supported by evidence.Chuckles1188 wrote:So the Leicester Way, fabled in song and story, is wanting to win games really really badly.
By the way, Leicester have topped the try-scoring charts and won the premiership in the same season exactly once under Cockerill. And the second time he won it they came in with a magisterial 46 tries, or two less than Wasps have scored halfway through this season. The stats don't exactly scream "all-singing all-dancing backline"
Different team environments have different tolerances for loss and different attitudes regarding openness about failure, being straight talking etc etc - Leicester classically has been towards the harder end of this.
I don't have time right this second to check the try scoring charts from year to year but will do later - though I believe in the Matt O'Connor years we topped it twice(?) Or atleast were pretty competitive in that area or not off the pace.
As for the comparison with Wasps this year - what even is the point of that comparison? If you can only support your point by selecting one historic year against another teams current year statistics which are of exactly no relevance then you've been spending too much time on the "post fact" threads on here.
If Tigers need a Sugar Daddy then god knows what Saints needRaggs wrote:Don't Tigers still have one of the largest turnovers out there? Even taking into account the debts other clubs build up?BurrowHill wrote:The financial situation was touched upon earlier in this thread so I thought I would post this, which sums it up pretty well. It seems if Leicester are to survive they are going to have to finally succumb and be dragged kicking and screaming into the land of club ownership. Thanks Bath/Sarries et al.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... CSPTEML866
Yes, I believe their turnover is still by quite some distance the best in England, maybe even Europe. However, I imagine they are still feeling the effects of building the new 10,000 capacity members stand (formerly CAT stand but called something else these days) in 2009ish, and have just built the new south stand a year ago as well. Plus they are looking at a new training ground and multi-story car park.Raggs wrote:Don't Tigers still have one of the largest turnovers out there? Even taking into account the debts other clubs build up?BurrowHill wrote:The financial situation was touched upon earlier in this thread so I thought I would post this, which sums it up pretty well. It seems if Leicester are to survive they are going to have to finally succumb and be dragged kicking and screaming into the land of club ownership. Thanks Bath/Sarries et al.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... CSPTEML866