Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

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Leffe
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Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Leffe »

So, I need to hang a record deck shelf to a plasterboard wall. The shelf itself is heavy (9 kg) and the record player 8kg.

This is the shelf: http://www.project-audio.com/inhalt/en/ ... untit5.pdf

Initially I thought about the Snaptoggle things, which require 50mm gap between the plasterboard and brick, I reckon I've 20mm. So can't use them.

Any ideas, other than handinng in my man-card (done) and hiring a handy-man, who could take my man-card from my missus...

Ta!
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Cartman
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Cartman »

Just use those L-shaped supports for extra umm support.
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Leffe
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Leffe »

Cartman wrote:Just use those L-shaped supports for extra umm support.
The problem is more the plaster fixings Cartman.... I can't use rawl plugs and I can't use Snaptoggles. How do I screw it in place?
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Odval
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Odval »

Try and find those:

Image
Market Square Hero
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Market Square Hero »

Use a stud finder and fix into the wood? Or these:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/rawlplug-holl ... _container

That's just an example, but they come in different sizes, so should be one to suit your purposes. I've used them plenty and they stay put no problem. Comments show that 4 anchors will carry up to 114kgs, so those should see you right.
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Sandstorm
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Sandstorm »

Apparently a single plasterboard fixing will fail around 12kg load, so spread the load over 3-4 fixings and you'll be ok. Of course finding the studs and fixing to those is much better.

You can always spend £400 on this:

Image
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earl the beaver
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by earl the beaver »

Easiest answer is find the stud and mount it there or even put a timber brace between the studs at the height you want (well secured to the stud) and mount your self onto that.

If you don't want to do that then you're left with standard fixings but I see what you mean about the 20mm gap from board to brick, pushing a rawl plug in will leave a 20mm gap for the screw to bend while a cavity wall fixing won't have room in the 20mm gap before hitting the brick.

Potentially cut out the sections of plasterboard you need to fix to and mount directly to the brick or build out with a solid fixing material, eg, Timber).

There are specific fixings for dot and dab walls which could do the job (rigifix, drylinepro) but they aren't really designed for a gap as big as 20mm
Heymans
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Heymans »

Odval wrote:Try and find those:

Image
Or those, designed for plasterboards:

Image
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Leinster in London
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Leinster in London »

There is zero chance the plasterboard will permanently hold a shelf that is being constantly used.
Also you have identified it's weight, but not accounted for the distance out from the wall the shelf will overhang.
As has already been identified you should find the wooden stud then screw into that.
Ideally you will use two studs, but you might get away with one if your shelf is around the same width as a record player.
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earl the beaver
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by earl the beaver »

Heymans wrote:
Odval wrote:Try and find those:

Image
Or those, designed for plasterboards:

Image
Won't work given there's only a 20mm gap from board to wall.
fisgard792
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by fisgard792 »

Leinster in London wrote:There is zero chance the plasterboard will permanently hold a shelf that is being constantly used.
Also you have identified it's weight, but not accounted for the distance out from the wall the shelf will overhang.
As has already been identified you should find the wooden stud then screw into that.
Ideally you will use two studs, but you might get away with one if your shelf is around the same width as a record player.
this and what EtB said, no matter how thick the Gyproc is
Magpie26
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Magpie26 »

Leinster in London wrote:There is zero chance the plasterboard will permanently hold a shelf that is being constantly used.
Also you have identified it's weight, but not accounted for the distance out from the wall the shelf will overhang.
As has already been identified you should find the wooden stud then screw into that.
Ideally you will use two studs, but you might get away with one if your shelf is around the same width as a record player.
Good enough for the Dragons, good enough for me.
http://www.gripitfixings.co.uk/what-is-a-gripit/
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by grubberkick »

Could you drill through the plasterboard at your desired shelf anchoring points, fill the immediate area behind the plasterboard with an expanding, solidifying, foam resin and then drill though the set foam and into the wall beyond?
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earl the beaver
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by earl the beaver »

grubberkick wrote:Could you drill through the plasterboard at your desired shelf anchoring points, fill the immediate area behind the plasterboard with an expanding, solidifying, foam resin and then drill though the set foam and into the wall beyond?
A possibility but not sure I'd trust the expanding foam not to move as the fixing bends.
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Leffe
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Leffe »

Magpie26 wrote:
Leinster in London wrote:There is zero chance the plasterboard will permanently hold a shelf that is being constantly used.
Also you have identified it's weight, but not accounted for the distance out from the wall the shelf will overhang.
As has already been identified you should find the wooden stud then screw into that.
Ideally you will use two studs, but you might get away with one if your shelf is around the same width as a record player.
Good enough for the Dragons, good enough for me.
http://www.gripitfixings.co.uk/what-is-a-gripit/
These are the most likely candidate atm. The 20mm brown ones. Their specs take into account different angles of force (a shelf is a cantilever load) and they should be no problems with the small gap at the rear of the board.

I've already on 20mm hole in my wall and am keen to make use of it ;). I'm going to use 6 of them.... hopefully enough!
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goose81
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by goose81 »

None of those fixings shown will hold the weight of your shelf and record player.

You either need to mount it to a brick wall

Find the studs in the plasterboard wall and screw into them, you do this by tapping the wall you will hear a noise change

If there is no studs in the wall where you want to mount you are talking about ripping the wall to pieces to build a stud frame and replaster

edit I see those grip it things, tested on 15mm plasterboard, I would doubt yours is 15mm thick. Did you even check for studs yet? thats the easiest and best option by a mile
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sewa
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by sewa »

Put record player on top of a white unit such a washing machine, its the most efficient use of space :thumbup:
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Torquemada 1420
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

Try these for plasterboard:
http://www.gripitfixings.co.uk/what-is-a-gripit/

Have used them with an extremely heavy mirror with no issues.

{EDIT} Seen goose81's post. It's a good point. My plasterboard was double thickness for sound insulation.

Also, I'd be wary of putting a turntable on something that is likely to vibrate (worse: in harmony with noise/speaker output) like a plaster wall.
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Torquemada 1420
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

earl the beaver wrote:Easiest answer is find the stud and mount it there or even put a timber brace between the studs at the height you want (well secured to the stud) and mount your self onto that.
Yeah. Finding the studs is always fun! Tap and listen test followed by pilot holes somewhere unobtrusive?
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earl the beaver
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by earl the beaver »

Torquemada 1420 wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:Easiest answer is find the stud and mount it there or even put a timber brace between the studs at the height you want (well secured to the stud) and mount your self onto that.
Yeah. Finding the studs is always fun! Tap and listen test followed by pilot holes somewhere unobtrusive?
Buy a stud detector for £25 quid from B&Q
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by grubberkick »

earl the beaver wrote:
grubberkick wrote:Could you drill through the plasterboard at your desired shelf anchoring points, fill the immediate area behind the plasterboard with an expanding, solidifying, foam resin and then drill though the set foam and into the wall beyond?
A possibility but not sure I'd trust the expanding foam not to move as the fixing bends.
Some foams set like ... hmmmm... concrete (almost) ;)
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Torquemada 1420
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

earl the beaver wrote:
Torquemada 1420 wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:Easiest answer is find the stud and mount it there or even put a timber brace between the studs at the height you want (well secured to the stud) and mount your self onto that.
Yeah. Finding the studs is always fun! Tap and listen test followed by pilot holes somewhere unobtrusive?
Buy a stud detector for £25 quid from B&Q
Found they worked okay in commercial studs (lots of metal) but not so great in modern houses. I have heard there are density meters now? But assumed they would be expensive (unless building is your trade and you'll use it more than twice!).
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DragsterDriver
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by DragsterDriver »

Centre it on a stud and stick two hefty screws into it, the others can be the metal spiral plasterboard fixings. It won't fall :)

To find the stud try tapping the wall, if you have no luck offer up the shelf bracket where you want it and draw around it. Start in the centre with a drill and work your way outwards hopefully finding. Stud and being able to cover the holes.

Live dangerously.
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Ewinkum
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Ewinkum »

20mm between plasterboard and brick sounds like there are no studs.
Boards are often fixed using dabs of bonding material on the back before pressing them into place.
In any case I wouldn't hang that shelf on the plasterboard.
Get some decent 6 inch wall anchors and drill them into the brick behind. 8 mm diameter should be grand. The brick will carry the load no problem.
Nolanator
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Nolanator »

Odval wrote:Try and find those:
Spoiler: show
Image


They're shit, don't use them. My last apartment had blinds which were attached to the top of the window recess with plaster screws like that. Four of the blinds pulled straight from the plaster when guests were opening the blinds by pulling on the string.
Normal rawl plugs worked fine.

Can't see anything like that working well with the load at 90degrees to the screw, either.
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earl the beaver
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by earl the beaver »

Ewinkum wrote:20mm between plasterboard and brick sounds like there are no studs.
Boards are often fixed using dabs of bonding material on the back before pressing them into place.
In any case I wouldn't hang that shelf on the plasterboard.
Get some decent 6 inch wall anchors and drill them into the brick behind. 8 mm diameter should be grand. The brick will carry the load no problem.
The screw can bend in the void and pull through the plasterboard though.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by DragsterDriver »

Didn't read :blush:

Dot and dab wall id stick a couple of chemfix Studs in or cut a slot and screw a timber to the brickwork and the bracket to that.
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Sandstorm
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Sandstorm »

DragsterDriver wrote:
To find the stud try tapping the wall, if you have no luck offer up the shelf bracket where you want it and draw around it. Start in the centre with a drill and work your way outwards hopefully finding. Stud and being able to cover the holes.

Live dangerously.
Yeah, nothing keeps a plasterboard sheet strong like 17 holes in a line. :lol:
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Ewinkum
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Ewinkum »

earl the beaver wrote:
Ewinkum wrote:20mm between plasterboard and brick sounds like there are no studs.
Boards are often fixed using dabs of bonding material on the back before pressing them into place.
In any case I wouldn't hang that shelf on the plasterboard.
Get some decent 6 inch wall anchors and drill them into the brick behind. 8 mm diameter should be grand. The brick will carry the load no problem.
The screw can bend in the void and pull through the plasterboard though.
Yes, but an 8mm bolt shouldn't bend unless the load is absolutely massive. Could always go to 10mm.
4 bolts. 4 inches in the brick wall. 2 inches protruding. No worries.
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Ewinkum
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Ewinkum »

DragsterDriver wrote:Didn't read :blush:

Dot and dab wall id stick a couple of chemfix Studs in or cut a slot and screw a timber to the brickwork and the bracket to that.
My name is Ewinkum and I endorse this message.
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Sandstorm
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Sandstorm »

Ewinkum wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
Ewinkum wrote:20mm between plasterboard and brick sounds like there are no studs.
Boards are often fixed using dabs of bonding material on the back before pressing them into place.
In any case I wouldn't hang that shelf on the plasterboard.
Get some decent 6 inch wall anchors and drill them into the brick behind. 8 mm diameter should be grand. The brick will carry the load no problem.
The screw can bend in the void and pull through the plasterboard though.
Yes, but an 8mm bolt shouldn't bend unless the load is absolutely massive. Could always go to 10mm.
4 bolts. 4 inches in the brick wall. 2 inches protruding. No worries.
Jesus, he using the shelf for a turntable, not an elephant!
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Ewinkum
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Ewinkum »

Sandstorm wrote:
Ewinkum wrote:
earl the beaver wrote:
Ewinkum wrote:20mm between plasterboard and brick sounds like there are no studs.
Boards are often fixed using dabs of bonding material on the back before pressing them into place.
In any case I wouldn't hang that shelf on the plasterboard.
Get some decent 6 inch wall anchors and drill them into the brick behind. 8 mm diameter should be grand. The brick will carry the load no problem.
The screw can bend in the void and pull through the plasterboard though.
Yes, but an 8mm bolt shouldn't bend unless the load is absolutely massive. Could always go to 10mm.
4 bolts. 4 inches in the brick wall. 2 inches protruding. No worries.
Jesus, he using the shelf for a turntable, not an elephant!
Do you want an Alpha shelf or a wanky beta shelf?
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Leinster in London
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Leinster in London »

I assume you used them professionally ?
If you've had no complaints then furry muff.
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slick
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by slick »

If you had paid someone it would have been done by now.
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Torquemada 1420
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Torquemada 1420 »

DragsterDriver wrote:Centre it on a stud and stick two hefty screws into it, the others can be the metal spiral plasterboard fixings. It won't fall :)

To find the stud try tapping the wall, if you have no luck offer up the shelf bracket where you want it and draw around it. Start in the centre with a drill and work your way outwards hopefully finding. Stud and being able to cover the holes.

Live dangerously.
:lol:
That's the trouble. Pipes and wires. Conversely, stud detectors would pick them up. Errant/lazy builders placement of the dreaded micro-bore acting as a delightful trap.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by DragsterDriver »

Torquemada 1420 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:Centre it on a stud and stick two hefty screws into it, the others can be the metal spiral plasterboard fixings. It won't fall :)

To find the stud try tapping the wall, if you have no luck offer up the shelf bracket where you want it and draw around it. Start in the centre with a drill and work your way outwards hopefully finding. Stud and being able to cover the holes.

Live dangerously.
:lol:
That's the trouble. Pipes and wires. Conversely, stud detectors would pick them up. Errant/lazy builders placement of the dreaded micro-bore acting as a delightful trap.
I put a towel rail up one Boxing Day as a surprise for the missus and hit a buried speedfit heating pipe. It was a surprise when she came home and the carpets were all in the front garden...

It happens though, last week I went through an iron gas pipe lifting a floor board..the customer assured me 'there are no pipes under there- the plumber checked last week'


Just nicked it with the saw :x

The customer said 'is it water?'

'Does it smell like f**king water?'
C69
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by C69 »

Buy a better house that you can hang stuff on the walls in.
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happyhooker
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by happyhooker »

c69 wrote:Buy a better house that you can hang stuff on the walls in.
We've seen what passes for wallpaper in your house
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Sefton
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Re: Hanging a heavy shelf - advice needed

Post by Sefton »

happyhooker wrote:
c69 wrote:Buy a better house that you can hang stuff on the walls in.
We've seen what passes for wallpaper in your house
It's all very twee in his corner of the world.
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