Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

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JamesJames
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by JamesJames »

booji boy wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:40 am
JamesJames wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:03 am Its a rich white mans sport just like Formula 1, pro cycling, pro tennis etc. The odd token person of colour doesnt really change the narrative.
So it's a racial issue?

What a bizarre attitude.
Partly, why do 95% of elite athletes in these sports happen to be white?
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booji boy
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by booji boy »

A high percentage of elite athletes in boxing are black or Hispanic. Why would that make any difference to me as a fan of the sport?
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Rowdy
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Rowdy »

JamesJames wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:59 am
booji boy wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:40 am
JamesJames wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:03 am Its a rich white mans sport just like Formula 1, pro cycling, pro tennis etc. The odd token person of colour doesnt really change the narrative.
So it's a racial issue?

What a bizarre attitude.
Partly, why do 95% of elite athletes in these sports happen to be white?
Now do basketball, sprinting, NFL, baseball and football.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Gospel »

booji boy wrote:Call me old fashioned but I really like the fact a famous Brit like Ainslie is leading the UK challenge. The Yanks and Italians having a Kiwi and an Aussie at the helm doesn't seem right. Shame the Aussies don't have a challenger involved.
It does help frame the competition. The Aussies should always be represented given their pedigree - same with the French. But the levels of investment required are insane. Up until Christmas Ineos Team UK had spent something like £110 million to come last.
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Gospel
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Gospel »

JamesJames wrote:Its a rich white mans sport just like Formula 1, pro cycling, pro tennis etc. The odd token person of colour doesnt really change the narrative.
As a white man I have always seen sailing as a rich persons sport but most of the sailors involved from the UK came up through the Olympic programme where opportunity is very much dependent on location. Yacht Clubs are seriously snooty environments and the AC is no different. After the end of the competition all the sailors will be sent home early leaving the mega rich to party through the night.
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Rowdy wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:12 pm
JamesJames wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:59 am
booji boy wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:40 am
JamesJames wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:03 am Its a rich white mans sport just like Formula 1, pro cycling, pro tennis etc. The odd token person of colour doesnt really change the narrative.
So it's a racial issue?

What a bizarre attitude.
Partly, why do 95% of elite athletes in these sports happen to be white?
Now do basketball, sprinting, NFL, baseball and football.
Black dudes make up something like 60% of players across NBA, NFL, baseball despite coming from 13% national population.
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

JamesJames wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:59 am
booji boy wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:40 am
JamesJames wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:03 am Its a rich white mans sport just like Formula 1, pro cycling, pro tennis etc. The odd token person of colour doesnt really change the narrative.
So it's a racial issue?

What a bizarre attitude.
Partly, why do 95% of elite athletes in these sports happen to be white?
Why are white people not allowed to sail? GTFO.
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

AM appeared to have the wrong set up the last 2 days banking on expected forecasts and not current info. They seem under powered and made some critical errors in course navigation.

I love the boats but they are complete shit in little wind. Their vmg sucks.

I really don't understand the format of the Prada Cup. Why can't they sail 3 races in one day to complete a round? If the wind is on they're only 25 minutes races.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

JamesJames wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:59 am
booji boy wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:40 am
JamesJames wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:03 am Its a rich white mans sport just like Formula 1, pro cycling, pro tennis etc. The odd token person of colour doesnt really change the narrative.
So it's a racial issue?

What a bizarre attitude.
Partly, why do 95% of elite athletes in these sports happen to be white?
Because the opportunities in these sports for youngsters are going to be open to middleclass families. It's not a race thing so fuck off
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by terryfinch »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:13 pm AM appeared to have the wrong set up the last 2 days banking on expected forecasts and not current info. They seem under powered and made some critical errors in course navigation.

I love the boats but they are complete shit in little wind. Their vmg sucks.

I really don't understand the format of the Prada Cup. Why can't they sail 3 races in one day to complete a round? If the wind is on they're only 25 minutes races.
There are plenty of days to allow them to improve their boats between races too. Means the boat that wins the Prada should be pretty useful and not prone to capsizing.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by terryfinch »

JamesJames wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:03 am Its a rich white mans sport just like Formula 1, pro cycling, pro tennis etc. The odd token person of colour doesnt really change the narrative.
The greatest F1 driver ever happens to be black. Explain?
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by booji boy »

15-20 knots and relatively rough conditions. Should make for great racing. Looking forward to Ineos vs Prada after yesterday's results.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by CarrotGawks »

Ainslie is not doing well. He's far too twitchy on the helm and not handling either the sea state or any lifts or drops in the wind. Seems shook.

Edit: Maybe a bit overpowered for the conditions? Do they have more sail out than the Italians?

Second edit: And the Italians absolutely screwed by a wind shift following the brits down the course.
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booji boy
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

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Race abandoned! :shock: Holy crap it turned to shit on that last mark didn't it!
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Gospel »

booji boy wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:39 am Race abandoned! :shock: Holy crap it turned to shit on that last mark didn't it!
That was hilarious. 90 degree switch and they both fell off their foils.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Gospel »

CarrotGawks wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:27 am Ainslie is not doing well. He's far too twitchy on the helm and not handling either the sea state or any lifts or drops in the wind. Seems shook.

Edit: Maybe a bit overpowered for the conditions? Do they have more sail out than the Italians?

Second edit: And the Italians absolutely screwed by a wind shift following the brits down the course.
Poor start by Ainsle. Prada sailed better and looked to be more comfortable in conditions. I think Ineos are lucky to get another shot at it.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by jambanja »

CarrotGawks wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:27 am Ainslie is not doing well. He's far too twitchy on the helm and not handling either the sea state or any lifts or drops in the wind. Seems shook.

Edit: Maybe a bit overpowered for the conditions? Do they have more sail out than the Italians?

Second edit: And the Italians absolutely screwed by a wind shift following the brits down the course.
So he wins the replay convincingly.

The American Magic team have the worst of days and are now trying to save the boat, which started sinking, old Deano’s not going too well, this is now between the Poms and the Italians
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by mr bungle »

Dean will cop some abuse, but I don't think he was at the helm when it went over. Switching sides at the time.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by CarrotGawks »

jambanja wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:58 am
CarrotGawks wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:27 am Ainslie is not doing well. He's far too twitchy on the helm and not handling either the sea state or any lifts or drops in the wind. Seems shook.

Edit: Maybe a bit overpowered for the conditions? Do they have more sail out than the Italians?

Second edit: And the Italians absolutely screwed by a wind shift following the brits down the course.
So he wins the replay convincingly.
What's your point? The conditions changed and he raced better. Until the wind shift in the first race (which caused it to be abandoned) he was not doing well.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by jambanja »

CarrotGawks wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:11 am
jambanja wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:58 am
CarrotGawks wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:27 am Ainslie is not doing well. He's far too twitchy on the helm and not handling either the sea state or any lifts or drops in the wind. Seems shook.

Edit: Maybe a bit overpowered for the conditions? Do they have more sail out than the Italians?

Second edit: And the Italians absolutely screwed by a wind shift following the brits down the course.
So he wins the replay convincingly.
What's your point? The conditions changed and he raced better. Until the wind shift in the first race (which caused it to be abandoned) he was not doing well.
Did you actually watch the first race, he had overtaken the Italians before the wind shift, possibly because he’d correctly chosen the correct side of the course.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Monk Zombie »

these yachts are simply incredible

my only gripe is that one error sees you losing with the advantage it gives the other crew - takes so long to get up on the foils again
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Gospel »

Well fuck. After the first race was abandoned because of wind shift I sloped off to bed and missed all the drama. Very surprised to see Ineos pick up another win against the Italians. Then in the second race AM sailed brilliantly until they had that problem and capsized. It's so dramatic seeing these boats almost pin-wheel when shit goes side-ways but I am always reminded of Bart Simpson and you fear for those onboard.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by terryfinch »

Addicted to this event now! Every day is impossible to predict. Team UK looking most composed of the challengers but their grinders (only 6 versus 8 for the other crews) working very hard. Upside is more boat trimmers and tacticians which is paying dividends so far.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by CarrotGawks »

jambanja wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:28 am
CarrotGawks wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:11 am
jambanja wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:58 am
CarrotGawks wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:27 am Ainslie is not doing well. He's far too twitchy on the helm and not handling either the sea state or any lifts or drops in the wind. Seems shook.

Edit: Maybe a bit overpowered for the conditions? Do they have more sail out than the Italians?

Second edit: And the Italians absolutely screwed by a wind shift following the brits down the course.
So he wins the replay convincingly.
What's your point? The conditions changed and he raced better. Until the wind shift in the first race (which caused it to be abandoned) he was not doing well.
Did you actually watch the first race, he had overtaken the Italians before the wind shift, possibly because he’d correctly chosen the correct side of the course.
He didn't pick the correct side of the course, he brought the wind down with him the whole way that was in front of the wind shift.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Gospel »

I am really enjoying the close racing with the lead changing hands in these windier conditions. That capsize was insane though. Ineos pulled off a high speed tack and bear away against Prada but it seems Dean Barker was caught out in heavier wind and a more volatile sea state.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Gospel »

CarrotGawks wrote:He didn't pick the correct side of the course, he brought the wind down with him the whole way that was in front of the wind shift.
To be fair Ineos sailed themselves back into the lead before the race was abandoned.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by CarrotGawks »

Gospel wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:14 pm
CarrotGawks wrote:He didn't pick the correct side of the course, he brought the wind down with him the whole way that was in front of the wind shift.
To be fair Ineos sailed themselves back into the lead before the race was abandoned.
Because ahead of the wind shift the wind picked up and was brought down the course with them. Without the wind shift, and so the race being abandoned, they wouldn't have had that wind.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Gospel »

CarrotGawks wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:21 pm
Gospel wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:14 pm
CarrotGawks wrote:He didn't pick the correct side of the course, he brought the wind down with him the whole way that was in front of the wind shift.
To be fair Ineos sailed themselves back into the lead before the race was abandoned.
Because ahead of the wind shift the wind picked up and was brought down the course with them. Without the wind shift, and so the race being abandoned, they wouldn't have had that wind.
Listening to comms they predicted it and took advantage. For me the notable error was taking an unnecessary penalty at the start. Prada definitely seems to have an upwind advantage though they were a bit sloppy downwind at times.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

mr bungle wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:05 am Dean will cop some abuse, but I don't think he was at the helm when it went over. Switching sides at the time.
Yeah but he made the call to tack and bear away in the squall. Coms off the boat had the main trimmer advising Barker its going to be a difficult manoeuvre and should bear away to the right hand gate. I like DB but this one is probably on him.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by terryfinch »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:23 pm
mr bungle wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:05 am Dean will cop some abuse, but I don't think he was at the helm when it went over. Switching sides at the time.
Yeah but he made the call to tack and bear away in the squall. Coms off the boat had the main trimmer advising Barker its going to be a difficult manoeuvre and should bear away to the right hand gate. I like DB but this one is probably on him.
Time to replace him with Ben Ainsley. Ohhh.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Gospel »

terryfinch wrote:Time to replace him with Ben Ainsley. Ohhh.
Dean Barker is quality and has a much-much higher AC pedigree than Sir Ben.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by terryfinch »

Just saw an interview with one of the Mercedes F1 nerds helping Ineos Team UK. Sounds like they have provided an upgrade methodology like used in F1, data driven, ‘driver’ feedback driven.... fascinating. They also think they have massive improvements still to make.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

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terryfinch wrote:They also think they have massive improvements still to make.
They will need to. NZ are a class apart. Though it's promising to see Ineos beat Prada twice in contrasting conditions. As the challenger of record the Italian boat has a similar dev. advantage over the rest of the field as Team NZ.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Gospel wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:04 pm
terryfinch wrote:Time to replace him with Ben Ainsley. Ohhh.
Dean Barker is quality and has a much-much higher AC pedigree than Sir Ben.
As much as I like Deano, he's won one cup with TMZ when it was all over at the first cross, league one. He did a great job 2007 but hasn't won anything in 21 years.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

terryfinch wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:55 pm
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:23 pm
mr bungle wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:05 am Dean will cop some abuse, but I don't think he was at the helm when it went over. Switching sides at the time.
Yeah but he made the call to tack and bear away in the squall. Coms off the boat had the main trimmer advising Barker its going to be a difficult manoeuvre and should bear away to the right hand gate. I like DB but this one is probably on him.
Time to replace him with Ben Ainsley. Ohhh.
Do they have a back up helm? Maybe this is the crisis they need to face to get them back in the game. Something isn't clicking right now because they appear to have plenty of speed.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Fat Albert »

Without an autoclave big enough for the hull I suggest there's not enough time for the Aramid composite to go off to get back in the water for the next race...

What a way to blow off $100m!

I also suggest that the most important assistance given by the Mercedes F1 team to Ineos, as the acknowledged experts in the field, was how to fill sandbags :nod:
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Enzedder »

They automatically finish 3rd and enter the sailoff in that position - probably with Prada.

The winner of that will take on Enios (probably)

The winner of that challenges for the Auld Mug.

They can take a week to get it right (if they have the money to fix all the electronics) and still go on to win.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by booji boy »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:23 pm
mr bungle wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:05 am Dean will cop some abuse, but I don't think he was at the helm when it went over. Switching sides at the time.
Yeah but he made the call to tack and bear away in the squall. Coms off the boat had the main trimmer advising Barker its going to be a difficult manoeuvre and should bear away to the right hand gate. I like DB but this one is probably on him.
Just a question for you more knowledgeable sailing aficionados. Watching AM flying into that last mark I thought "Fuck they are coming in fast!" Then they rounded the mark and catastrophe struck. Did they really need to come in that fast or was that just reckless by Barker and they paid the ultimate price?
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