Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

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Fat Old Git
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

WHEW!!!!
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

YUSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
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Kiwias
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Kiwias »

5 - 3 to the good guys.

LR will be gutted.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Fat Old Git wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:43 am What happens with the boundary penalties?
Have to peel off 50 meters
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Eugenius »

Unbelievable stuff .
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Eugenius »

Unbelievable stuff .
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by guy smiley »

Forecast light winds tomorrow again... ahead of a change driving ahead of a front coming through.

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves lads, could lose those gains easily.
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Ted.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Ted. »

f**king phew!

I was leaning into every jibe.

Hard luck to the Italians.
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Monkey Magic
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Monkey Magic »

mr bungle wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:13 am
Kiwias wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:34 am
guy smiley wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:31 am
Kiwias wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:27 am
Jerome Manning wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:17 am So we've lost the first race today.
Peter Burling wants a word with you
Listening to the TVNZ commentary and reading that reminds me that we do tend to try and shoot our bolt early in sport.
We do it with the ABs too. One bad result and it is all doom and gloom.
It's not really comparable. This entire regatta, including the Prada Cup, had been a procession. Great to see that 3 potential wins from victory there is finally a race with 1 x pass and some close racing. While I've watched most of the racing, this isn't great sport. It's great hype (genuine), high end tech, big and fast boats, high expectation, just sadly not much competition within race. The money and expertise required isn't worth peservering with such one sided races. And we pretty much know these boats won't be around for the next one, no matter the winner.
Etnz completing the barn storming run and over taking would have made this wrong, the fact we then had absolutely mad scenes off the foils and then hoping like he'll they beat the time limit.

Today has been a great day of racing, hopefully more to come
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Ted.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Ted. »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:31 pm
deadduck wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:38 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:09 pm
deadduck wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:02 am For me it's a bit like when F1 cars started using TCS or ABS and other electronic stability systems and just became too easy

These boats are much more stable than anyone expected and I think to make the racing more interesting they have to do something to make them less stable e.g. reduce the allowable size of the foil wings
Assume the boats are near even in speed and one falls off the foils in 8-9ks TWS. Game is over. Personally I would like to see a 4km² course. Yes the boundaries keep the boats close together but in these light conditions the turbulent air from the lead is so great.
The increased risk of coming off the foils would be the same for all teams if it's in the class design rules. The current design rules allow a virtual box of particular dimensions that the foil wings must fit inside. They could just reduce that next time around. While it's true that if one comes off and the other doesn't it's game over. But if both come off at various times it make for more drama in the race, like we saw in the Christmas regatta.

Smaller foil sizes would make tacking manoeuvres more difficult but would actually increase the overall speed of the boat because of reduced drag in the water.
The impact you might see on racing is that the lead boat would have less incentive to cover the tailing boat at every tack because every tack becomes a risk of losing stability and coming off the foils. Boats might be encouraged to 'sail their own race' as a preferred tactic and then it becomes a race about picking the best parts of the course and managing your own boat speed rather than just sitting in front of the trailing boat and stalling their speed to the point where they can never pass.

There's been a lot of talk about the lack of match racing elements in this regatta upsetting the sailing purists but in my opinion the match racing elements are what is ruining the racing.

One of the reasons Luna Rossa have been so successful is that their larger foil wings allow more stability and a faster rate of turn in the tacks upwind compared to the other teams so they are always in a position to outmanoeuvre the trailing boat and stall their speed. It also means their boat is slower which is why they haven't been competitive in the high wind drag races or from a position behind.
This is not entirely accurate. ETNZ showed better numbers when in the lead than LR, their VMG was better, their tacks were cleaner and they carried more speed through them. In race 6 LR all but came off her foils despite larger surface area.
I think we saw it once where ETNZ and LR came off their foils at various stages.
DD right, but not necessarily for the right reasons. At least not in every respect. BMIJ putting up a reasoned argument, but not correct in every respect. :thumbup:
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Ted.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Ted. »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:01 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:43 am What happens with the boundary penalties?
Have to peel off 50 meters
It's 100, isn't it?

Well worth it for them to get back on their foils.
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Ted. wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:41 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:01 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:43 am What happens with the boundary penalties?
Have to peel off 50 meters
It's 100, isn't it?

Well worth it for them to get back on their foils.
They copped a double for not executing the 1st penalty.
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badmannotinjapan
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

Ted. wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:34 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:31 pm
deadduck wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:38 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:09 pm
deadduck wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:02 am For me it's a bit like when F1 cars started using TCS or ABS and other electronic stability systems and just became too easy

These boats are much more stable than anyone expected and I think to make the racing more interesting they have to do something to make them less stable e.g. reduce the allowable size of the foil wings
Assume the boats are near even in speed and one falls off the foils in 8-9ks TWS. Game is over. Personally I would like to see a 4km² course. Yes the boundaries keep the boats close together but in these light conditions the turbulent air from the lead is so great.
The increased risk of coming off the foils would be the same for all teams if it's in the class design rules. The current design rules allow a virtual box of particular dimensions that the foil wings must fit inside. They could just reduce that next time around. While it's true that if one comes off and the other doesn't it's game over. But if both come off at various times it make for more drama in the race, like we saw in the Christmas regatta.

Smaller foil sizes would make tacking manoeuvres more difficult but would actually increase the overall speed of the boat because of reduced drag in the water.
The impact you might see on racing is that the lead boat would have less incentive to cover the tailing boat at every tack because every tack becomes a risk of losing stability and coming off the foils. Boats might be encouraged to 'sail their own race' as a preferred tactic and then it becomes a race about picking the best parts of the course and managing your own boat speed rather than just sitting in front of the trailing boat and stalling their speed to the point where they can never pass.

There's been a lot of talk about the lack of match racing elements in this regatta upsetting the sailing purists but in my opinion the match racing elements are what is ruining the racing.

One of the reasons Luna Rossa have been so successful is that their larger foil wings allow more stability and a faster rate of turn in the tacks upwind compared to the other teams so they are always in a position to outmanoeuvre the trailing boat and stall their speed. It also means their boat is slower which is why they haven't been competitive in the high wind drag races or from a position behind.
This is not entirely accurate. ETNZ showed better numbers when in the lead than LR, their VMG was better, their tacks were cleaner and they carried more speed through them. In race 6 LR all but came off her foils despite larger surface area.
I think we saw it once where ETNZ and LR came off their foils at various stages.
DD right, but not necessarily for the right reasons. At least not in every respect. BMIJ putting up a reasoned argument, but not correct in every respect. :thumbup:
Again, ETNZ showed better numbers despite their smaller foils.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Whilst I appreciate all the excitement about foils etc I suspect 2 teams racing 49ers would be awesome as well.
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Ted.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Ted. »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:48 am
Ted. wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:34 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:31 pm
deadduck wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:38 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:09 pm

Assume the boats are near even in speed and one falls off the foils in 8-9ks TWS. Game is over. Personally I would like to see a 4km² course. Yes the boundaries keep the boats close together but in these light conditions the turbulent air from the lead is so great.
The increased risk of coming off the foils would be the same for all teams if it's in the class design rules. The current design rules allow a virtual box of particular dimensions that the foil wings must fit inside. They could just reduce that next time around. While it's true that if one comes off and the other doesn't it's game over. But if both come off at various times it make for more drama in the race, like we saw in the Christmas regatta.

Smaller foil sizes would make tacking manoeuvres more difficult but would actually increase the overall speed of the boat because of reduced drag in the water.
The impact you might see on racing is that the lead boat would have less incentive to cover the tailing boat at every tack because every tack becomes a risk of losing stability and coming off the foils. Boats might be encouraged to 'sail their own race' as a preferred tactic and then it becomes a race about picking the best parts of the course and managing your own boat speed rather than just sitting in front of the trailing boat and stalling their speed to the point where they can never pass.

There's been a lot of talk about the lack of match racing elements in this regatta upsetting the sailing purists but in my opinion the match racing elements are what is ruining the racing.

One of the reasons Luna Rossa have been so successful is that their larger foil wings allow more stability and a faster rate of turn in the tacks upwind compared to the other teams so they are always in a position to outmanoeuvre the trailing boat and stall their speed. It also means their boat is slower which is why they haven't been competitive in the high wind drag races or from a position behind.
This is not entirely accurate. ETNZ showed better numbers when in the lead than LR, their VMG was better, their tacks were cleaner and they carried more speed through them. In race 6 LR all but came off her foils despite larger surface area.
I think we saw it once where ETNZ and LR came off their foils at various stages.
DD right, but not necessarily for the right reasons. At least not in every respect. BMIJ putting up a reasoned argument, but not correct in every respect. :thumbup:
Again, ETNZ showed better numbers despite their smaller foils.
What I was alluding to, was your discussion was almost prescient. Impressive.
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Ted.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Ted. »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:49 am Whilst I appreciate all the excitement about foils etc I suspect 2 teams racing 49ers would be awesome as well.
Even you must surely admit Greg, 4 people and short arse yachts doing 20 kn doesn't quite cut it. :P
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Flockwitt »

Tremendous theatre that last race. Could we please have high winds tomorrow though. I don't need any more.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by deadduck »

badmannotinjapan wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:48 am
Again, ETNZ showed better numbers despite their smaller foils.
Despite their smaller foils? They are faster (in part) because of their smaller foils

Smaller foils mean less drag in the water. Drag in the water is the only thing slowing these boats down.

What we saw in the second race was a real dead zone at one end of the course after the course realignment, due to the island and the spectator fleet. Once LR came off their foils there wasn't enough wind for them to power back up. ETNZ were able to stay up at that end not because their foils were better, but because they were able to maintain their boat speed which maintains the apparent wind speed across the sails.
If they had come off in the same spot I think they would have struggled just like LR
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Grandpa »

JB1981 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:29 am I now have enough evidence to declare that I am the jinx. I follow remotely and we win, I watch and we lose. This has happened without exception.

I will take my leave from this event and wish TNZ all the best in their future endeavours.
Thank you for your selfless endeavour...

No sneaky peeking next race!
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by booji boy »

That was f**king weird. Watching these boats come off the foils and sail displacement is like watching a formula one race car run ou of gas and having to free wheel into the pits to gas up.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Gospel »

Really hard lines for the Italian team. They were sailing so well and got absolutely stuffed at the top mark and took 8 minutes to get going again. That was filthy.

ETNZ showing its class though. I think they have been out sailed for the most part but gain such an advantage in powering up their boat.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Auckman »

First time I watched these races properly today. Very excite!
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

deadduck wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:27 am
badmannotinjapan wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:48 am
Again, ETNZ showed better numbers despite their smaller foils.
Despite their smaller foils? They are faster (in part) because of their smaller foils

Smaller foils mean less drag in the water. Drag in the water is the only thing slowing these boats down.

What we saw in the second race was a real dead zone at one end of the course after the course realignment, due to the island and the spectator fleet. Once LR came off their foils there wasn't enough wind for them to power back up. ETNZ were able to stay up at that end not because their foils were better, but because they were able to maintain their boat speed which maintains the apparent wind speed across the sails.
If they had come off in the same spot I think they would have struggled just like LR
What we are seeing is ETNZ are showing better numbers in conditions that supposedly favoured LR.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by terryfinch »

Kiwias wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:55 am 5 - 3 to the good guys.

LR will be gutted.
LR threw away both those races through errors. Must be gutted!
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by booji boy »

That was some exciting and bizzarre racing. I had to go out during the racing but managed to see the start of race 1. We lost the start so I naturally thought "Bugger, we've lost this race!" Then I listened on the radio and heard as we passed LR for the first lead change in the series. Then I listened to the start of the second race which we also lost. Then we fell off the foils and last thing I heard was that we were 700m behind. I assumed we'd lost that race and stopped listening. A while later I turned the radio on and we were 2,000m ahead! WTF???

Came home and watched both races in full. Truly bizarre. I hope the wind is a bit stronger and steadier for the next couple of races. I hear more light winds are forecast today though.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

terryfinch wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:32 pm
Kiwias wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:55 am 5 - 3 to the good guys.

LR will be gutted.
LR threw away both those races through errors. Must be gutted!
I'm not sure threw away is the right term. Maybe they could have covered TNZ better in the first race, but TNZ definitely looked to have the faster boat in those conditions and it was going to be a big ask to hold them out fir the whole race. There wasn't the huge wind shadow created by the lead bost that we had seen in earlier races.

And while LR coming of the foils gave TNZ the second race, if they hadn't we would have been talking about TNZ's drop off having cost them the race just as it looked like they were going to fly past LR.

Race 2 really highlighted how quickly fortunes can change.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Monkey Magic »

Watching the press conference looks like Prada were a bit pissed at themselves for the first race.

Lot of comments about a strong review and also a comment from Bruni that they weren't going as fast as they were after 'for reasons I won't go into '

Maybe they had a bit of a glitch onboard whether human or mechanical
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Sail choice perhaps? Although the did say they were happy with their choice after race one.

Just seen someone predicting 10 to 15 knot wind speeds later today. Hope that's correct.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by badmannotinjapan »

terryfinch wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:32 pm
Kiwias wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:55 am 5 - 3 to the good guys.

LR will be gutted.
LR threw away both those races through errors. Must be gutted!
Yeah nah
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by guy smiley »

this is a radical change from yesterday :lol:
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Kiwias »

Neck and neck racing
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

LR in charge. But this is still anyones.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Defensive masterclass from LR.

Wimd is all over the place. The commentators description of it as a minefield seems appropriate.
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Big wind shift for TNZ sees them take the lead into the last leg.

I going back behind the couch!
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by guy smiley »

That was just savage
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Kiwias »

Spithill took the wrong side of the course there
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Kiwias »

guy smiley wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:08 am That was just savage
How many more gears does ETNZ have????
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Kiwias wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:09 am Spithill took the wrong side of the course there
I think the commentary team can hear the coms from the boats. They said something about LR deciding they didn't have space to tack over TNZ at that last split and keep control of that side.

Anyway, amazing race!
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by Kiwias »

Fat Old Git wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:13 am
Kiwias wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:09 am Spithill took the wrong side of the course there
I think the commentary team can hear the coms from the boats. They said something about LR deciding they didn't have space to tack over TNZ at that last split and keep control of that side.

Anyway, amazing race!
Burling called it "epic racing".
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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Post by guy smiley »

Kiwias wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:10 am
guy smiley wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:08 am That was just savage
How many more gears does ETNZ have????
I was thinking more about the tactic to hold that one side picking up the breeze that came out of nowhere... Spithill just couldn't make it in time to tack onto them.
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