Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Rise UP

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Lorthern Nights

Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by Lorthern Nights »

kevinm500 wrote:
Lorthern Nights wrote:I dont mind Blair but then I'm not that fussed over Iraq. Mistake for sure but a hell of a lot of what is written about it now is with the benefit of hindsight.

Not surprised IDS is bitching but then he is just bitter that Blair kept handing him his arse when he was leader of the opposition
Bit unfair on IDS? Like or dislike his politics he is one of the few principled politicians we have, a sort of pragmatic version of Tony Benn for me, who was a great parliamentarian.
I'm right of Genghis politically and I have no time for the man and certainly don't view him as principled, the tories would be well shot of him as he just stinks up the place.
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by C69 »

kevinm500 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
kevinm500 wrote:
Lorthern Nights wrote:I dont mind Blair but then I'm not that fussed over Iraq. Mistake for sure but a hell of a lot of what is written about it now is with the benefit of hindsight.

Not surprised IDS is bitching but then he is just bitter that Blair kept handing him his arse when he was leader of the opposition
Bit unfair on IDS? Like or dislike his politics he is one of the few principled politicians we have, a sort of pragmatic version of Tony Benn for me, who was a great parliamentarian.
He's human pondscum and spectacularly inept. Fuck him.
I'm sure this considered opinion is based on your long history of meeting him for coffee each morning...
Or perhaps on his failed social experiment when he was at the DWP?
Universal Credit; failure
The Work Programme; spectacular failure, so much so that the audit office reported that “flawed contractual performance measures mean the Department will have to make incentive payments to even the worst performing contractors.”
Or even the Bed room tax.

He was an arse clown who hurt the poorest in society and tried to make out that there are millions of feckless individuals out there scamming the system
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by kevinm500 »

c69 wrote:
kevinm500 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
kevinm500 wrote:
Lorthern Nights wrote:I dont mind Blair but then I'm not that fussed over Iraq. Mistake for sure but a hell of a lot of what is written about it now is with the benefit of hindsight.

Not surprised IDS is bitching but then he is just bitter that Blair kept handing him his arse when he was leader of the opposition
Bit unfair on IDS? Like or dislike his politics he is one of the few principled politicians we have, a sort of pragmatic version of Tony Benn for me, who was a great parliamentarian.
He's human pondscum and spectacularly inept. Fuck him.
I'm sure this considered opinion is based on your long history of meeting him for coffee each morning...
Or perhaps on his failed social experiment when he was at the DWP?
Universal Credit; failure
The Work Programme; spectacular failure, so much so that the audit office reported that “flawed contractual performance measures mean the Department will have to make incentive payments to even the worst performing contractors.”
Or even the Bed room tax.

He was an arse clown who hurt the poorest in society and tried to make out that there are millions of feckless individuals out there scamming the system
Which would be outrageous, if there weren't millions of feckless individuals scamming the system.
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
croyals wrote:Will be interesting to see how this goes down in Stoke and Copeland, I dare say it wasn't a brilliantly timed speech
People in both constituencies are loudly (and, in my opinion, foolishly, given how they voted in the referendum and what it was they actually did vote for) complaining about Brexit being the topic of discussion. I can easily see it being rendered largely irrelevant.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/th ... xk8veJ3XyY

Looks like the race to discredit one's own party in Stoke is heating up, and Nuttall has a commanding lead at the halfway-ish mark
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by Chuckles1188 »

kevinm500 wrote:
c69 wrote: Or perhaps on his failed social experiment when he was at the DWP?
Universal Credit; failure
The Work Programme; spectacular failure, so much so that the audit office reported that “flawed contractual performance measures mean the Department will have to make incentive payments to even the worst performing contractors.”
Or even the Bed room tax.

He was an arse clown who hurt the poorest in society and tried to make out that there are millions of feckless individuals out there scamming the system
Which would be outrageous, if there weren't millions of feckless individuals scamming the system.
No, actually it's outrageous regardless of whether that's the case. And I am deeply sceptical of the claim as well
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by kevinm500 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
kevinm500 wrote:
c69 wrote: Or perhaps on his failed social experiment when he was at the DWP?
Universal Credit; failure
The Work Programme; spectacular failure, so much so that the audit office reported that “flawed contractual performance measures mean the Department will have to make incentive payments to even the worst performing contractors.”
Or even the Bed room tax.

He was an arse clown who hurt the poorest in society and tried to make out that there are millions of feckless individuals out there scamming the system
Which would be outrageous, if there weren't millions of feckless individuals scamming the system.
No, actually it's outrageous regardless of whether that's the case. And I am deeply sceptical of the claim as well
Let me just get this straight, your position is that if we accept the claim that there are millions of feckless individuals scamming the system, it is outrageous that IDS should have the temerity to mention it.

Okay then...
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by Chuckles1188 »

No, my position is that, even if we do accept that there is a serious problem, ruining the lives of thousands of perfectly innocent people in an attempt to rectify that problem is unacceptable
Lorthern Nights

Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by Lorthern Nights »

kevinm500 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
kevinm500 wrote:
c69 wrote: Or perhaps on his failed social experiment when he was at the DWP?
Universal Credit; failure
The Work Programme; spectacular failure, so much so that the audit office reported that “flawed contractual performance measures mean the Department will have to make incentive payments to even the worst performing contractors.”
Or even the Bed room tax.

He was an arse clown who hurt the poorest in society and tried to make out that there are millions of feckless individuals out there scamming the system
Which would be outrageous, if there weren't millions of feckless individuals scamming the system.
No, actually it's outrageous regardless of whether that's the case. And I am deeply sceptical of the claim as well
Let me just get this straight, your position is that if we accept the claim that there are millions of feckless individuals scamming the system, it is outrageous that IDS should have the temerity to mention it.

Okay then...
If he went after our pensioners with the same vigour I would applaud him, they are the biggest bunch of spongers we have. Time to drain the swamp
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by JM2K6 »

I can't believe there's any argument in favour of IDS and what he's done. Wow.
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by Chuckles1188 »

That and the existence of the Flat Earth Society are incontrovertible proof that nothing is sacred
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by C69 »

JM2K6 wrote:I can't believe there's any argument in favour of IDS and what he's done. Wow.
It's alternate truths
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by kevinm500 »

c69 wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:I can't believe there's any argument in favour of IDS and what he's done. Wow.
It's alternate truths
Not really, There is a significant scamming problem and the only way to get benefits up to a decent level is to tackle the problem. You can't magically discover the scammers, you need to re-evaluate all and the scammers drop out the bottom. I accept this inconveniences genuine claimants, but should this not be viewed as just cause to prove they genuinely have a case to receive the benefit.
I don't buy the argument that the benefit money should just keep rolling through the door, there is no reason why some hoops shouldn't be jumped to receive it. Bearing in mind that someone else earnt the money and then passed it along to the treasury for redistribution.
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by JM2K6 »

kevinm500 wrote:There is a significant scamming problem
We're going to have to start from the beginning here. Can you provide some solid data on this?
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by C69 »

kevinm500 wrote:
c69 wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:I can't believe there's any argument in favour of IDS and what he's done. Wow.
It's alternate truths
Not really, There is a significant scamming problem and the only way to get benefits up to a decent level is to tackle the problem. You can't magically discover the scammers, you need to re-evaluate all and the scammers drop out the bottom. I accept this inconveniences genuine claimants, but should this not be viewed as just cause to prove they genuinely have a case to receive the benefit.
I don't buy the argument that the benefit money should just keep rolling through the door, there is no reason why some hoops shouldn't be jumped to receive it. Bearing in mind that someone else earnt the money and then passed it along to the treasury for redistribution.
So what did IDS do that was susccesssful?
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by kevinm500 »

JM2K6 wrote:
kevinm500 wrote:There is a significant scamming problem
We're going to have to start from the beginning here. Can you provide some solid data on this?
I really can't be bothered. You can look at official statistics as much as you like. I think you might try a spell living in and around these people to discover in truth what proportion of claimants are constantly gaming the system, from the unemployed taking cash jobs (both legal and illegal) to the fake disabled and those shipping in relatives children for interviews with social workers. It is rife whether your statistics show it or not. Or perhaps south London is completely different from the rest of the country...
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by AND-y »

Most people who are defending Blair x(
Most people who are attacking Blair x(
Me and those who think exactly like me :thumbup:
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by C69 »

kevinm500 wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
kevinm500 wrote:There is a significant scamming problem
We're going to have to start from the beginning here. Can you provide some solid data on this?
I really can't be bothered. You can look at official statistics as much as you like. I think you might try a spell living in and around these people to discover in truth what proportion of claimants are constantly gaming the system, from the unemployed taking cash jobs (both legal and illegal) to the fake disabled and those shipping in relatives children for interviews with social workers. It is rife whether your statistics show it or not. Or perhaps south London is completely different from the rest of the country...
:lol:
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by SaintK »

kevinm500 wrote:
Lorthern Nights wrote:I dont mind Blair but then I'm not that fussed over Iraq. Mistake for sure but a hell of a lot of what is written about it now is with the benefit of hindsight.

Not surprised IDS is bitching but then he is just bitter that Blair kept handing him his arse when he was leader of the opposition
Bit unfair on IDS? Like or dislike his politics he is one of the few principled politicians we have, a sort of pragmatic version of Tony Benn for me, who was a great parliamentarian.
What!!! Principled?
He is one of the worst lying bastards ever to serve in government.
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by croyals »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
croyals wrote:Will be interesting to see how this goes down in Stoke and Copeland, I dare say it wasn't a brilliantly timed speech
People in both constituencies are loudly (and, in my opinion, foolishly, given how they voted in the referendum and what it was they actually did vote for) complaining about Brexit being the topic of discussion. I can easily see it being rendered largely irrelevant.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/th ... xk8veJ3XyY

Looks like the race to discredit one's own party in Stoke is heating up, and Nuttall has a commanding lead at the halfway-ish mark
It will be interesting to see how the Hillsborough issue plays out. Not 100% on it affecting people's voting intentions en masse away from Merseyside. It will certainly damage Nuttall nationally regardless of whether he wins or not, which leaves open a return from Big Nige...
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by nardol »

c69 wrote:
nardol wrote:Best PM since Clement Attlee
I don't think the people of Iraq share your sentiments tbh
They would if soft cock pms that followed didn't pull out. Was on the right track.
The problems with Iraq date back to your empire anyway with your random borders when pulling out. Your responsibility to try and clear it up, at least Blair tried.
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by C69 »

nardol wrote:
c69 wrote:
nardol wrote:Best PM since Clement Attlee
I don't think the people of Iraq share your sentiments tbh
They would if soft cock pms that followed didn't pull out. Was on the right track.
The problems with Iraq date back to your empire anyway with your random borders when pulling out. Your responsibility to try and clear it up, at least Blair tried.
Not my Empire mate
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by nardol »

c69 wrote:
nardol wrote:
c69 wrote:
nardol wrote:Best PM since Clement Attlee
I don't think the people of Iraq share your sentiments tbh
They would if soft cock pms that followed didn't pull out. Was on the right track.
The problems with Iraq date back to your empire anyway with your random borders when pulling out. Your responsibility to try and clear it up, at least Blair tried.
Not my Empire mate
Was it the Mexicans?

Fking knew it... Bastards.
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by SaintK »

croyals wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
croyals wrote:Will be interesting to see how this goes down in Stoke and Copeland, I dare say it wasn't a brilliantly timed speech
People in both constituencies are loudly (and, in my opinion, foolishly, given how they voted in the referendum and what it was they actually did vote for) complaining about Brexit being the topic of discussion. I can easily see it being rendered largely irrelevant.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/th ... xk8veJ3XyY

Looks like the race to discredit one's own party in Stoke is heating up, and Nuttall has a commanding lead at the halfway-ish mark
It will be interesting to see how the Hillsborough issue plays out. Not 100% on it affecting people's voting intentions en masse away from Merseyside. It will certainly damage Nuttall nationally regardless of whether he wins or not, which leaves open a return from Big Nige...
A return to what? I don't think Farage's ego could taker another loss at an election or by-election.
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by C69 »

nardol wrote:
c69 wrote:
nardol wrote:
c69 wrote:
nardol wrote:Best PM since Clement Attlee
I don't think the people of Iraq share your sentiments tbh
They would if soft cock pms that followed didn't pull out. Was on the right track.
The problems with Iraq date back to your empire anyway with your random borders when pulling out. Your responsibility to try and clear it up, at least Blair tried.
Not my Empire mate
Was it the Mexicans?

Fking knew it... Bastards.
You may be barking up the wrong tree with this one tbh
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by nardol »

You break it you buy it


You broke it!
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by bimboman »

Universal credit was obviously the right thing to try. Some problems on implementation but the right idea. Quite frankly unemployment where it is and falling is a massive succes.
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by kevinm500 »

bimboman wrote:Universal credit was obviously the right thing to try. Some problems on implementation but the right idea. Quite frankly unemployment where it is and falling is a massive succes.
I would like to believe that, but it is many years since these numbers could be trusted.
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by C69 »

nardol wrote:You break it you buy it


You broke it!
No swing and miss
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by Nobleman »

The Brexiteers feel that their "victory " on 23 June 2016 was so fragile and unsupportable that they don't want anyone to speak against it, not even Tony Blair.

You would not know it from the spasms of pearl-clutching Brexiteer apoplexy (“how DARE he?!”), but Mr Blair’s message was not anti-democratic. Quite the opposite. “Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe,” he acknowledged. “And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept that there is no widespread appetite to re-think.” To read this as denial or a call for the summary dismissal of the referendum result is strange indeed. Instead Mr Blair set out frankly, accurately and crisply the realities and contradictions that today’s political leaders prefer to sweep under the carpet, or refer to only opaquely: people did vote on Brexit “without knowledge of the full terms”; its execution will starve other public priorities, like the health service, of government capacity and cash; it will imperil the union. Voters may change their views; it is their right to do so; it is up to politicians, if they think the country is making a terrible mistake, to make that case.

Implicit in the fury these points have generated is the dismal notion, beloved of autocrats, that to try to change the electorate’s opinions through reasoned argument is to disregard its previous electoral judgments. “Erdogan was elected by the people, so to criticise him is to patronise and disrespect the people” say the Turkish president’s propagandists in Ankara; “Brexit was voted for by the people, so to criticise it is to patronise and disrespect the people” say the Brexit purists in London (funnily enough, the apposite vote-share in both cases was 52%). The correct response to the fallacy is always this: “If you really trust your arguments and the electorate’s judgment, why fume and fret when your opponents try to change minds?” This would have been just as true had the result of the referendum been different, which is why I argued before June 23rd that, if the Remain campaign won, it should live on to keep making and remaking its case to respond to fresh challenges. After all, referendums often intensify the debates they purport to settle.

The fairest opposition to Mr Blair’s gambit comes from keen Remainers who fear that such polarising interventions make it harder for them to win a hearing.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/ ... -third-way
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by Chuckles1188 »

To be fair Leave had Farage on their side and still managed to win out, so...
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:To be fair Leave had Farage on their side and still managed to win out, so...
Were yoi not so long ago you were claiming leave won because of lies told by Farage ?
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Anonymous. wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:To be fair Leave had Farage on their side and still managed to win out, so...
Were yoi not so long ago you were claiming leave won because of lies told by Farage ?
No
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by zzzz »

Nobleman wrote:The Brexiteers feel that their "victory " on 23 June 2016 was so fragile and unsupportable that they don't want anyone to speak against it, not even Tony Blair.

You would not know it from the spasms of pearl-clutching Brexiteer apoplexy (“how DARE he?!”), but Mr Blair’s message was not anti-democratic. Quite the opposite. “Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe,” he acknowledged. “And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept that there is no widespread appetite to re-think.” To read this as denial or a call for the summary dismissal of the referendum result is strange indeed. Instead Mr Blair set out frankly, accurately and crisply the realities and contradictions that today’s political leaders prefer to sweep under the carpet, or refer to only opaquely: people did vote on Brexit “without knowledge of the full terms”; its execution will starve other public priorities, like the health service, of government capacity and cash; it will imperil the union. Voters may change their views; it is their right to do so; it is up to politicians, if they think the country is making a terrible mistake, to make that case.

Implicit in the fury these points have generated is the dismal notion, beloved of autocrats, that to try to change the electorate’s opinions through reasoned argument is to disregard its previous electoral judgments. “Erdogan was elected by the people, so to criticise him is to patronise and disrespect the people” say the Turkish president’s propagandists in Ankara; “Brexit was voted for by the people, so to criticise it is to patronise and disrespect the people” say the Brexit purists in London (funnily enough, the apposite vote-share in both cases was 52%). The correct response to the fallacy is always this: “If you really trust your arguments and the electorate’s judgment, why fume and fret when your opponents try to change minds?” This would have been just as true had the result of the referendum been different, which is why I argued before June 23rd that, if the Remain campaign won, it should live on to keep making and remaking its case to respond to fresh challenges. After all, referendums often intensify the debates they purport to settle.

The fairest opposition to Mr Blair’s gambit comes from keen Remainers who fear that such polarising interventions make it harder for them to win a hearing.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/ ... -third-way

"The fairest opposition to Mr Blair’s gambit..."

See. This is how the Economist has been f*cked by Zanny Minty Freshbreath. The Economist of all places doing just the sort of miserable "politics for me, but not for thee" shite they used to disdain.
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by C69 »

zzzz wrote:
Nobleman wrote:The Brexiteers feel that their "victory " on 23 June 2016 was so fragile and unsupportable that they don't want anyone to speak against it, not even Tony Blair.

You would not know it from the spasms of pearl-clutching Brexiteer apoplexy (“how DARE he?!”), but Mr Blair’s message was not anti-democratic. Quite the opposite. “Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe,” he acknowledged. “And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept that there is no widespread appetite to re-think.” To read this as denial or a call for the summary dismissal of the referendum result is strange indeed. Instead Mr Blair set out frankly, accurately and crisply the realities and contradictions that today’s political leaders prefer to sweep under the carpet, or refer to only opaquely: people did vote on Brexit “without knowledge of the full terms”; its execution will starve other public priorities, like the health service, of government capacity and cash; it will imperil the union. Voters may change their views; it is their right to do so; it is up to politicians, if they think the country is making a terrible mistake, to make that case.

Implicit in the fury these points have generated is the dismal notion, beloved of autocrats, that to try to change the electorate’s opinions through reasoned argument is to disregard its previous electoral judgments. “Erdogan was elected by the people, so to criticise him is to patronise and disrespect the people” say the Turkish president’s propagandists in Ankara; “Brexit was voted for by the people, so to criticise it is to patronise and disrespect the people” say the Brexit purists in London (funnily enough, the apposite vote-share in both cases was 52%). The correct response to the fallacy is always this: “If you really trust your arguments and the electorate’s judgment, why fume and fret when your opponents try to change minds?” This would have been just as true had the result of the referendum been different, which is why I argued before June 23rd that, if the Remain campaign won, it should live on to keep making and remaking its case to respond to fresh challenges. After all, referendums often intensify the debates they purport to settle.

The fairest opposition to Mr Blair’s gambit comes from keen Remainers who fear that such polarising interventions make it harder for them to win a hearing.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/ ... -third-way

"The fairest opposition to Mr Blair’s gambit..."

See. This is how the Economist has been f*cked by Zanny Minty Freshbreath. The Economist of all places doing just the sort of miserable "politics for me, but not for thee" shite they used to disdain.
Economist
Says it all :lol:
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by fisgard792 »

blair has a point, it was a vote of project fear versus project lies, which is where the irony is on blair being now being involved

however, given he is the most consummate back pocket and toxic politician we've had in my lifetime, his intervention will only go to assist those he opposes.

like broon, the cvnt just cant help himself,
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by GWO2 »

Lorthern Nights wrote:
If he went after our pensioners with the same vigour I would applaud him, they are the biggest bunch of spongers we have. Time to drain the swamp

You fecking twonk, I worked for 50 years three shifts or 12 hr shifts, paying stamp and taxes, only to be treated like a sponger by twonks like you. I wouldn`t be surprised if some of my contributions went to help pay the NHS to provide the support needed to bring shites like you into this world. I get FA that I haven`t paid for and worked for, all my life. ( It`s a good bet that my working conditions were more like Victorian times as well compared to the armchair ride most twonks like you get now) It`s your brain needs draining. (wouldn`t take long) :x
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by C69 »

GWO2 wrote:
Lorthern Nights wrote:
If he went after our pensioners with the same vigour I would applaud him, they are the biggest bunch of spongers we have. Time to drain the swamp

You fecking twonk, I worked for 50 years three shifts or 12 hr shifts, paying stamp and taxes, only to be treated like a sponger by twonks like you. I wouldn`t be surprised if some of my contributions went to help pay the NHS to provide the support needed to bring shites like you into this world. I get FA that I haven`t paid for and worked for, all my life. ( It`s a good bet that my working conditions were more like Victorian times as well compared to the armchair ride most twonks like you get now) It`s your brain needs draining. (wouldn`t take long) :x
Scotch Tories are the worst mate
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dr dre2
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by dr dre2 »

Mullet 2 wrote:So the man who won a record three terms for his party has no idea about the pulse of the nation?

but the boreds little Englanders speak for the people.
The man had the pulse of the nation 20 years ago, but most of the things we see as negative now can be traced back to him to a degree. Rise of Islamic terror including the vacuum that allowed ISIS to form and the further internal victimisation of western Muslims, the deficit and over spend exposed by the financial crisis and the resulting austerity and Eastern European immigration squeezing living standards.

He's no longer teflon he's a shit magnet.
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croyals
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Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by croyals »

Seneca of the Night wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Nobleman wrote:The Brexiteers feel that their "victory " on 23 June 2016 was so fragile and unsupportable that they don't want anyone to speak against it, not even Tony Blair.

You would not know it from the spasms of pearl-clutching Brexiteer apoplexy (“how DARE he?!”), but Mr Blair’s message was not anti-democratic. Quite the opposite. “Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe,” he acknowledged. “And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept that there is no widespread appetite to re-think.” To read this as denial or a call for the summary dismissal of the referendum result is strange indeed. Instead Mr Blair set out frankly, accurately and crisply the realities and contradictions that today’s political leaders prefer to sweep under the carpet, or refer to only opaquely: people did vote on Brexit “without knowledge of the full terms”; its execution will starve other public priorities, like the health service, of government capacity and cash; it will imperil the union. Voters may change their views; it is their right to do so; it is up to politicians, if they think the country is making a terrible mistake, to make that case.

Implicit in the fury these points have generated is the dismal notion, beloved of autocrats, that to try to change the electorate’s opinions through reasoned argument is to disregard its previous electoral judgments. “Erdogan was elected by the people, so to criticise him is to patronise and disrespect the people” say the Turkish president’s propagandists in Ankara; “Brexit was voted for by the people, so to criticise it is to patronise and disrespect the people” say the Brexit purists in London (funnily enough, the apposite vote-share in both cases was 52%). The correct response to the fallacy is always this: “If you really trust your arguments and the electorate’s judgment, why fume and fret when your opponents try to change minds?” This would have been just as true had the result of the referendum been different, which is why I argued before June 23rd that, if the Remain campaign won, it should live on to keep making and remaking its case to respond to fresh challenges. After all, referendums often intensify the debates they purport to settle.

The fairest opposition to Mr Blair’s gambit comes from keen Remainers who fear that such polarising interventions make it harder for them to win a hearing.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/ ... -third-way

"The fairest opposition to Mr Blair’s gambit..."

See. This is how the Economist has been f*cked by Zanny Minty Freshbreath. The Economist of all places doing just the sort of miserable "politics for me, but not for thee" shite they used to disdain.
She is appalling . Singlehandedly wrecked one of the most August journals in the history of the world.
One of their referendum articles was a piece with Carswell, described as 'the element of the brexit campaign worth engaging with'. Out of touch elite indeed...
Lorthern Nights

Re: Blair on BBC One News All Morning - Remainers Should Ris

Post by Lorthern Nights »

GWO2 wrote:
Lorthern Nights wrote:
If he went after our pensioners with the same vigour I would applaud him, they are the biggest bunch of spongers we have. Time to drain the swamp

You fecking twonk, I worked for 50 years three shifts or 12 hr shifts, paying stamp and taxes, only to be treated like a sponger by twonks like you. I wouldn`t be surprised if some of my contributions went to help pay the NHS to provide the support needed to bring shites like you into this world. I get FA that I haven`t paid for and worked for, all my life. ( It`s a good bet that my working conditions were more like Victorian times as well compared to the armchair ride most twonks like you get now) It`s your brain needs draining. (wouldn`t take long) :x
http://news.sky.com/story/pensioner-inc ... e-10766204

Don't worry I think millennials are dicks as well
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