Interesting Dilemma

All things Rugby
User avatar
Flametop
Posts: 19321
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by Flametop »

Not even one rule 1 of the females in your club that you mentioned.

How can we know what we are talking about?

Is it a couples and single girls only club?
User avatar
paneer
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:13 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by paneer »

ovalball wrote:At a club I organise, there's a bloke who seems extremely nice, 'wouldn't harm a fly' type, but appears to suffer from some sort of learning disability. Hence, I was surprised when he told me he used to be a professional sportsman and then a stockbroker, but lost everything due to drugs. He looks about as far away from a pro sportsman as it is possible to get - so I looked him up on the internet - and I found that it was true - but was also shocked to find that, in a Psychotic episode, he killed two women. He then spent time in a mental hospital before being released to a half way house - where he is now. I've slightly changed/blurred the events to protect identities.

So far I've kept this information to myself. However, we have several females in the club. Question is - should I tell other members.

Thoughts ??
how are people let out these days after double killings
User avatar
A5D5E5
Posts: 11472
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:57 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by A5D5E5 »

Sounds like the perfect alibi to me. If you can engineer a situation to get his fingerprints on a few large knives even better.
User avatar
A5D5E5
Posts: 11472
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:57 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by A5D5E5 »

paneer wrote:
ovalball wrote:At a club I organise, there's a bloke who seems extremely nice, 'wouldn't harm a fly' type, but appears to suffer from some sort of learning disability. Hence, I was surprised when he told me he used to be a professional sportsman and then a stockbroker, but lost everything due to drugs. He looks about as far away from a pro sportsman as it is possible to get - so I looked him up on the internet - and I found that it was true - but was also shocked to find that, in a Psychotic episode, he killed two women. He then spent time in a mental hospital before being released to a half way house - where he is now. I've slightly changed/blurred the events to protect identities.

So far I've kept this information to myself. However, we have several females in the club. Question is - should I tell other members.

Thoughts ??
how are people let out these days after double killings
With a cheery wave and a promise not to do it again.
C69
Posts: 42428
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:44 pm
Location: For Wales the Welsh and aproppriate pronouns

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by C69 »

Mick Mannock wrote:
Murdoch wrote:
globus wrote:Never come across anything like that dilemma.
Image
:lol:
:lol:
User avatar
paneer
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:13 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by paneer »

should link the story of the killings so we can decent better
jolindien
Posts: 6775
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by jolindien »

ovalball wrote:At a club I organise, there's a bloke who seems extremely nice, 'wouldn't harm a fly' type, but appears to suffer from some sort of learning disability. Hence, I was surprised when he told me he used to be a professional sportsman and then a stockbroker, but lost everything due to drugs. He looks about as far away from a pro sportsman as it is possible to get - so I looked him up on the internet - and I found that it was true - but was also shocked to find that, in a Psychotic episode, he killed two women. He then spent time in a mental hospital before being released to a half way house - where he is now. I've slightly changed/blurred the events to protect identities.

So far I've kept this information to myself. However, we have several females in the club. Question is - should I tell other members.

Thoughts ??
If it was a murder through a pyschotic episode, i guess he was delared irresponsible ?

I guess also he has drugs to take and is followed by doctors to prevent any new psychotic episode ?

Was it a paranoid psychotic episode in which he saw these women like a danger, like people who wanted to kill him or something ?
User avatar
globus
Posts: 52706
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Oundle

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by globus »

c69 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
Murdoch wrote:
globus wrote:Never come across anything like that dilemma.
Image
:lol:
:lol:
Ha! I've had a few dilemmas (not dilemnas) in my time but thankfully not in this league. One of them is how to avoid being the butt of jokes on here! I doubt I shall ever succeed, so I'm content that there's not much I can do about it.

Back to the point of the OP.
Chambers wrote:dilemma ,
n a position where each of two alternative courses (or of all the feasible courses) is eminently undesirable; (loosely) a predicament, problem; a form of argument in which the maintainer of a certain proposition is committed to accept one of two propositions each of which contradicts his or her original contention (the argument was called a "horned syllogism" and the victim compared to a man certain to be impaled on one or other of the horns of an infuriated bull, hence the horns of a dilemma; ).
Ovals has got a right one on his hands.
ovalball
Posts: 13395
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by ovalball »

He must have been out for a while now - he's been at the club for well over a year. And you really couldn't meet a more inoffensive man. He is also living in a 'care home' - which will be mostly full of elderly people - so I'm assuming he's been thoroughly vetted to be around vulnerable people.

I think I'll wait until I've had a chance to talk to his friend. Nonetheless, I'm probably erring on the side of keeping the information to myself. If the authorities are not giving out warnings, I don't think it's really my place to interfere in his re-integration.

The club is a not somewhere where he'll really be alone with individuals for more than a moment or two- other than if they give him a lift.

There's no real correct answer - but it's nice to be able to chat about it on here and get some intelligent views.
ovalball
Posts: 13395
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by ovalball »

jolindien wrote:
ovalball wrote:At a club I organise, there's a bloke who seems extremely nice, 'wouldn't harm a fly' type, but appears to suffer from some sort of learning disability. Hence, I was surprised when he told me he used to be a professional sportsman and then a stockbroker, but lost everything due to drugs. He looks about as far away from a pro sportsman as it is possible to get - so I looked him up on the internet - and I found that it was true - but was also shocked to find that, in a Psychotic episode, he killed two women. He then spent time in a mental hospital before being released to a half way house - where he is now. I've slightly changed/blurred the events to protect identities.

So far I've kept this information to myself. However, we have several females in the club. Question is - should I tell other members.

Thoughts ??
If it was a murder through a pyschotic episode, i guess he was delared irresponsible ?


I guess also he has drugs to take and is followed by doctors to prevent any new psychotic episode ?

Was it a paranoid psychotic episode in which he saw these women like a danger, like people who wanted to kill him or something ?
I don't have all the details - there's not much coverage left on the net. But he admitted manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility and was held indefinitely, at a secure facility, under the Mental Health Act. No motives, for the killings, could be found. He immediately went to a Police Station and handed himself in but was shortly transferred when his mental state deteriorated rapidly.
User avatar
happyhooker
Posts: 23140
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by happyhooker »

ovalball wrote:
jolindien wrote:
ovalball wrote:At a club I organise, there's a bloke who seems extremely nice, 'wouldn't harm a fly' type, but appears to suffer from some sort of learning disability. Hence, I was surprised when he told me he used to be a professional sportsman and then a stockbroker, but lost everything due to drugs. He looks about as far away from a pro sportsman as it is possible to get - so I looked him up on the internet - and I found that it was true - but was also shocked to find that, in a Psychotic episode, he killed two women. He then spent time in a mental hospital before being released to a half way house - where he is now. I've slightly changed/blurred the events to protect identities.

So far I've kept this information to myself. However, we have several females in the club. Question is - should I tell other members.

Thoughts ??
If it was a murder through a pyschotic episode, i guess he was delared irresponsible ?


I guess also he has drugs to take and is followed by doctors to prevent any new psychotic episode ?

Was it a paranoid psychotic episode in which he saw these women like a danger, like people who wanted to kill him or something ?
I don't have all the details - there's not much coverage left on the net. But he admitted manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility and was held indefinitely, at a secure facility, under the Mental Health Act. No motives, for the killings, could be found. He immediately went to a Police Station and handed himself in but was shortly transferred when his mental state deteriorated rapidly.
I'd definitely sit on it. As I said earlier, I used to work in this field and my bil and sister are psychiatrists​. If he's out, they genuinely don't think he's a threat, certainly in the timeframe you've given.

But rule 1 on the females though
User avatar
globus
Posts: 52706
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Oundle

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by globus »

I think you are on the right track Ovals. Seems a good and logical way to proceed.

I'm stating the obvious but you are not responsible for him, his history, his behaviour, his treatment or his rehabilitation.

Hope you can get the proper advice and information, without going public.

I wish you well.
ovalball
Posts: 13395
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by ovalball »

happyhooker wrote:
ovalball wrote:
jolindien wrote:
ovalball wrote:At a club I organise, there's a bloke who seems extremely nice, 'wouldn't harm a fly' type, but appears to suffer from some sort of learning disability. Hence, I was surprised when he told me he used to be a professional sportsman and then a stockbroker, but lost everything due to drugs. He looks about as far away from a pro sportsman as it is possible to get - so I looked him up on the internet - and I found that it was true - but was also shocked to find that, in a Psychotic episode, he killed two women. He then spent time in a mental hospital before being released to a half way house - where he is now. I've slightly changed/blurred the events to protect identities.

So far I've kept this information to myself. However, we have several females in the club. Question is - should I tell other members.

Thoughts ??
If it was a murder through a pyschotic episode, i guess he was delared irresponsible ?


I guess also he has drugs to take and is followed by doctors to prevent any new psychotic episode ?

Was it a paranoid psychotic episode in which he saw these women like a danger, like people who wanted to kill him or something ?
I don't have all the details - there's not much coverage left on the net. But he admitted manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility and was held indefinitely, at a secure facility, under the Mental Health Act. No motives, for the killings, could be found. He immediately went to a Police Station and handed himself in but was shortly transferred when his mental state deteriorated rapidly.
I'd definitely sit on it. As I said earlier, I used to work in this field and my bil and sister are psychiatrists​. If he's out, they genuinely don't think he's a threat, certainly in the timeframe you've given.

But rule 1 on the females though
You wouldn't thank me !!
User avatar
happyhooker
Posts: 23140
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by happyhooker »

Agreed, but rulez is rulez.

Best of luck with it all, it's been 20 years since I worked in that field, but my bil is a forensic psychiatrist so if you'd like some more up to date advice, let me know. I'm seeing him on Friday anyway so I'll run a sanitised version past him.
User avatar
waguser
Posts: 12986
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by waguser »

I would expel him from the club immediately

drug induced psychosis or no drug induced psychosis the safety of members is paramount.

Nobody is automatically entitled to membership and having killed 2 people is sufficient cause in my view.

This seems so self evident to me I cant understand the Dillema
User avatar
Mr Mike
Posts: 11704
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Texas

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by Mr Mike »

ovalball wrote:At a club I organise, there's a bloke who seems extremely nice, 'wouldn't harm a fly' type, but appears to suffer from some sort of learning disability. Hence, I was surprised when he told me he used to be a professional sportsman and then a stockbroker, but lost everything due to drugs. He looks about as far away from a pro sportsman as it is possible to get - so I looked him up on the internet - and I found that it was true - but was also shocked to find that, in a Psychotic episode, he killed two women. He then spent time in a mental hospital before being released to a half way house - where he is now. I've slightly changed/blurred the events to protect identities.

So far I've kept this information to myself. However, we have several females in the club. Question is - should I tell other members.

Thoughts ??
It is a pretty awful secret. I think you should tell the other members that he was a stockbroker. They deserve the truth.
ovalball
Posts: 13395
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by ovalball »

Mr Mike wrote:
ovalball wrote:At a club I organise, there's a bloke who seems extremely nice, 'wouldn't harm a fly' type, but appears to suffer from some sort of learning disability. Hence, I was surprised when he told me he used to be a professional sportsman and then a stockbroker, but lost everything due to drugs. He looks about as far away from a pro sportsman as it is possible to get - so I looked him up on the internet - and I found that it was true - but was also shocked to find that, in a Psychotic episode, he killed two women. He then spent time in a mental hospital before being released to a half way house - where he is now. I've slightly changed/blurred the events to protect identities.

So far I've kept this information to myself. However, we have several females in the club. Question is - should I tell other members.

Thoughts ??
It is a pretty awful secret. I think you should tell the other members that he was a stockbroker. They deserve the truth.
:lol: :lol:
User avatar
happyhooker
Posts: 23140
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by happyhooker »

waguser wrote:I would expel him from the club immediately

drug induced psychosis or no drug induced psychosis the safety of members is paramount.

Nobody is automatically entitled to membership and having killed 2 people is sufficient cause in my view.

This seems so self evident to me I cant understand the Dillema
You're so far up you're own arse I'm amazed that you don't come out the other end.
User avatar
dr dre2
Posts: 5187
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:48 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by dr dre2 »

happyhooker wrote:
waguser wrote:I would expel him from the club immediately

drug induced psychosis or no drug induced psychosis the safety of members is paramount.

Nobody is automatically entitled to membership and having killed 2 people is sufficient cause in my view.

This seems so self evident to me I cant understand the Dillema
You're so far up you're own arse I'm amazed that you don't come out the other end.
Yeah man! We all want to kill a few people sometimes, who are we to judge. You can't be infringing on people's rights! If a few members get brutally murdered, well that's just going to have to be the price we pay for doing the right thing.
Last edited by dr dre2 on Thu May 18, 2017 7:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
DragsterDriver
Posts: 27511
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Big Willi Style

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by DragsterDriver »

Don't let him volunteer in the kitchen :)


FairPlay for not gossiping about him, hell of a situation you've found found yourself in! I'd have a little fish with his friend.
User avatar
terangi48
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:18 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by terangi48 »

It's a bastard when people confide in confidence....once something is known it can't be unknown. There must be a committee running the club where it could be discussed in committee....and then get a consensus to meet with someone who has been his "case manager" to discuss his rehab....his stability and likelihood of reoffending. Under advice take the necessary action. There are no winners in this circumstance if a hard decision has to be made...
User avatar
globus
Posts: 52706
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Oundle

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by globus »

terangi48 wrote:It's a bastard when people confide in confidence....once something is known it can't be unknown. There must be a committee running the club where it could be discussed in committee....and then get a consensus to meet with someone who has been his "case manager" to discuss his rehab....his stability and likelihood of reoffending. Under advice take the necessary action. There are no winners in this circumstance if a hard decision has to be made...
Not a good idea. I work in a number of committees and an inkling turns into a complete mess, often ill thought out and wrongly understood.

Best to keep this one to the chest, I think. Involving too many others just acts as an explosive device.

If you are lucky, it doesn't go nuclear.

We have had a cracker this year. Hopefully the mushroom cloud will dissipate. So many false trails and ignorance. But, you shrug your shoulders, accept the inevitable, but move on.

How do you deal with a serial lying blighter without dragging yourself into the mire?

Answers on a postcard please. I've had a storm of e-mails in the last few weeks. Looks like we've seen him off now as we have hinted that we know of some dodgy goings on.

Just takes up some valuable time.
DAC2016
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by DAC2016 »

My slight fear is that if he's confided in you, so to speak, and you do a smattering of detective work it won't be long before he does the same thing with someone else and they may not be as responsible about their findings.

That's his lot I suppose.
User avatar
dr dre2
Posts: 5187
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:48 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by dr dre2 »

DAC2016 wrote:My slight fear is that if he's confided in you, so to speak, and you do a smattering of detective work it won't be long before he does the same thing with someone else and they may not be as responsible about their findings.

That's his lot I suppose.
All jokes aside, I'm not so sure it is the responsible thing to do. He has a legal duty of care to the members. If something was to happen and he couldn't put his hand in the filing cabinet and pull out a well reasoned risk assessment he may be liable. It's best to do the research, speak to the professionals involved and document everything.
ovalball
Posts: 13395
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by ovalball »

He hasn't really confided in me - other than mentioning his past careers and that he had a problem with drugs. The rest is I have discovered and pieced together. It's unlikely that anyone else will do so.

The club doesn't have a committee as such. It's something I created and run myself - I do invite a few 'members' to discuss ideas as a sort of 'Brains Trust' but nothing official.
User avatar
Mahoney
Posts: 4097
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by Mahoney »

ovalball wrote:He hasn't really confided in me - other than mentioning his past careers and that he had a problem with drugs. The rest is I have discovered and pieced together. It's unlikely that anyone else will do so.

The club doesn't have a committee as such. It's something I created and run myself - I do invite a few 'members' to discuss ideas as a sort of 'Brains Trust' but nothing official.
So if he does go tonto and wipe out half the club, the really important thing is that you get on to Jake and organise a bored wipe to fix all those whiteouts. Plausible deniability for the win.
Mick Mannock
Posts: 27625
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by Mick Mannock »

waguser wrote:I would expel him from the club immediately

drug induced psychosis or no drug induced psychosis the safety of members is paramount.

Nobody is automatically entitled to membership and having killed 2 people is sufficient cause in my view.

This seems so self evident to me I cant understand the Dillema
I think to be followed up by a call to a local journalist, a poster campaign, an offer to appear on breakfast TV perhaps.

The safety of the public is paramount.

If you manage the club, I guess you can remove him. Not sure I would want to carry out a risk-assessment (as has been suggested) without recourse to all the forensic mental-health information, which you will not get.

My guess is that he remains on supervision post discharge, and is subject to regular ongoing risk-assessment, and psychiatric review.
User avatar
clydecloggie
Posts: 2141
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:51 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by clydecloggie »

Tough advice maybe but:

Talking to others in the club will see him expelled. It normally only takes one committee member to take a 'tough stance' and threaten to spill the beans 'in the interest of the club' for the more balanced people to see no other option than to go down the expel route and avoid an almighty row. With a case like this, you'll find Mr. Tough within the first 2 or 3 people you approach.

So if your view is that the guy deserves a chance and poses no risk, you have to keep it a secret.

Probably wise to get as much info as you can to do your own risk assessment before deciding if you want to take on that responsibility.

If you think you can't, talk to club members you trust, but that will almost certainly mean the end of the guy's involvement in the club.
eugenefraxby
Posts: 2488
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:03 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by eugenefraxby »

Mr Mike wrote:
ovalball wrote:At a club I organise, there's a bloke who seems extremely nice, 'wouldn't harm a fly' type, but appears to suffer from some sort of learning disability. Hence, I was surprised when he told me he used to be a professional sportsman and then a stockbroker, but lost everything due to drugs. He looks about as far away from a pro sportsman as it is possible to get - so I looked him up on the internet - and I found that it was true - but was also shocked to find that, in a Psychotic episode, he killed two women. He then spent time in a mental hospital before being released to a half way house - where he is now. I've slightly changed/blurred the events to protect identities.

So far I've kept this information to myself. However, we have several females in the club. Question is - should I tell other members.

Thoughts ??
It is a pretty awful secret. I think you should tell the other members that he was a stockbroker. They deserve the truth.
Embarrassing- laughed out loud during meeting....
DAC2016
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by DAC2016 »

dr dre2 wrote:
DAC2016 wrote:My slight fear is that if he's confided in you, so to speak, and you do a smattering of detective work it won't be long before he does the same thing with someone else and they may not be as responsible about their findings.

That's his lot I suppose.
All jokes aside, I'm not so sure it is the responsible thing to do. He has a legal duty of care to the members. If something was to happen and he couldn't put his hand in the filing cabinet and pull out a well reasoned risk assessment he may be liable. It's best to do the research, speak to the professionals involved and document everything.
Do you complete risk assessments?
Mick Mannock
Posts: 27625
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by Mick Mannock »

DAC2016 wrote:
dr dre2 wrote:
DAC2016 wrote:My slight fear is that if he's confided in you, so to speak, and you do a smattering of detective work it won't be long before he does the same thing with someone else and they may not be as responsible about their findings.

That's his lot I suppose.
All jokes aside, I'm not so sure it is the responsible thing to do. He has a legal duty of care to the members. If something was to happen and he couldn't put his hand in the filing cabinet and pull out a well reasoned risk assessment he may be liable. It's best to do the research, speak to the professionals involved and document everything.
Do you complete risk assessments?
And for every prospective member? And on an ongoing basis?
User avatar
Duff Paddy
Posts: 42138
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by Duff Paddy »

ovalball wrote:At a club I organise, there's a bloke who seems extremely nice, 'wouldn't harm a fly' type, but appears to suffer from some sort of learning disability. Hence, I was surprised when he told me he used to be a professional sportsman and then a stockbroker, but lost everything due to drugs. He looks about as far away from a pro sportsman as it is possible to get - so I looked him up on the internet - and I found that it was true - but was also shocked to find that, in a Psychotic episode, he killed two women. He then spent time in a mental hospital before being released to a half way house - where he is now. I've slightly changed/blurred the events to protect identities.

So far I've kept this information to myself. However, we have several females in the club. Question is - should I tell other members.

Thoughts ??
This has to be a wind up? You're placing his right to privacy above the safety of the women in the club? Tell you what, let them have the information and they can weigh up their own risk.
User avatar
Duff Paddy
Posts: 42138
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by Duff Paddy »

Mick Mannock wrote:
DAC2016 wrote:
dr dre2 wrote:
DAC2016 wrote:My slight fear is that if he's confided in you, so to speak, and you do a smattering of detective work it won't be long before he does the same thing with someone else and they may not be as responsible about their findings.

That's his lot I suppose.
All jokes aside, I'm not so sure it is the responsible thing to do. He has a legal duty of care to the members. If something was to happen and he couldn't put his hand in the filing cabinet and pull out a well reasoned risk assessment he may be liable. It's best to do the research, speak to the professionals involved and document everything.
Do you complete risk assessments?
And for every prospective member? And on an ongoing basis?
You do if there are children in the club - for coaching staff that is
Mick Mannock
Posts: 27625
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by Mick Mannock »

Duff Paddy wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
DAC2016 wrote:
dr dre2 wrote:
DAC2016 wrote:My slight fear is that if he's confided in you, so to speak, and you do a smattering of detective work it won't be long before he does the same thing with someone else and they may not be as responsible about their findings.

That's his lot I suppose.
All jokes aside, I'm not so sure it is the responsible thing to do. He has a legal duty of care to the members. If something was to happen and he couldn't put his hand in the filing cabinet and pull out a well reasoned risk assessment he may be liable. It's best to do the research, speak to the professionals involved and document everything.
Do you complete risk assessments?
And for every prospective member? And on an ongoing basis?
You do if there are children in the club - for coaching staff that is
That is to be expected. And for every Rugby club member who might apply to join?
User avatar
sewa
Posts: 22230
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by sewa »

Could come in very handy if you ever feel the need to kill someone, just fit this bloke up and the job is sorted :thumbup:
Sundy
Posts: 986
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by Sundy »

Is the club a Park Run kind of thing?

I'm not so sure about being obligated to tell everyone. Fact is if a person is considered rehabilitated by the state who are you to argue?
User avatar
globus
Posts: 52706
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Oundle

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by globus »

Sundy wrote:Is the club a Park Run kind of thing?

I'm not so sure about being obligated to tell everyone. Fact is if a person is considered rehabilitated by the state who are you to argue?
Depends on whether you trust "the state". In this case and others, it depends on the ground forces and they sometimes take their eye off the ball.
User avatar
dr dre2
Posts: 5187
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:48 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by dr dre2 »

Mick Mannock wrote:
waguser wrote:I would expel him from the club immediately

drug induced psychosis or no drug induced psychosis the safety of members is paramount.

Nobody is automatically entitled to membership and having killed 2 people is sufficient cause in my view.

This seems so self evident to me I cant understand the Dillema
I think to be followed up by a call to a local journalist, a poster campaign, an offer to appear on breakfast TV perhaps.

The safety of the public is paramount.

If you manage the club, I guess you can remove him. Not sure I would want to carry out a risk-assessment (as has been suggested) without recourse to all the forensic mental-health information, which you will not get.

My guess is that he remains on supervision post discharge, and is subject to regular ongoing risk-assessment, and psychiatric review.
No he wouldn't have to go that far. He'd need to consult a professional on the likelihood, the gentleman would have a case worker who he'd politely seek permission to meet. The case worker would dampen fears and the responsibility is differed. That's the correct course of action. Write it all up. Point to it and say you did your bit if it all goes tits up. Otherwise you run the risk of being called irresponsible and negligent in court. You knowingly exposed your members to a dangerous man and couldn't be bothered or were to cowardly to do the right thing and now one of those members are dead. Be nice, say it's nothing personal but you feel you have a professional responsibility to have a quick word with his case worker. Nothing specific, no medical records :lol: "do I need to be concerned".
User avatar
dr dre2
Posts: 5187
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:48 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by dr dre2 »

DAC2016 wrote:
dr dre2 wrote:
DAC2016 wrote:My slight fear is that if he's confided in you, so to speak, and you do a smattering of detective work it won't be long before he does the same thing with someone else and they may not be as responsible about their findings.

That's his lot I suppose.
All jokes aside, I'm not so sure it is the responsible thing to do. He has a legal duty of care to the members. If something was to happen and he couldn't put his hand in the filing cabinet and pull out a well reasoned risk assessment he may be liable. It's best to do the research, speak to the professionals involved and document everything.
Do you complete risk assessments?
Yes DAC. Really speaking it's best to have one for every possible scenario you are likely to put a member of staff in to. You need to show that you are considering this shite. Even if you get it wrong, you can say we tried our best to cover all the bases and that's all you're required to do. From the RA you form policy, from policy you form training. It's all about covering your arse. If policy is not followed after training. Defer, defer, defer.
DAC2016
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: Interesting Dilemna

Post by DAC2016 »

Yes DAC. Really speaking it's best to have one for every possible scenario you are likely to put a member of staff in to.
I have a friend who works on a project in Wales where basically no hopers are given a last chance to sort their lives out. The target of the project is to get them into some sort of housing.

There are about 25 of them living in joint sheltered accommodation and my friend is a team lead and is basically responsible for the "clients" health and safety as well as their team. There are murders, rapes, suicides, knife crimes, and rampant drug use within the accommodation.

There are no risk assessments for the staff, surely this is illegal?
Post Reply