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Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:27 pm
by bimboman
I'm ignoring your first paragraph as youre smart enough to know why that's obtuse.

Absolutely it's a capital gain and is taxable. However as the bitcoin exchanges didn't have any kyc for a long time, ive no doubt that plenty evaded tax on them.
Why is it obtuse ? Where are all the billionaires ?

Why is it a capital gain ? Why isn't it trading income ?

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:29 pm
by Zakar
bimboman wrote:
Zakar wrote:
bimboman wrote:
tiddle wrote:Most posters here who are invested in them, have stated the value can be volatile so it would be silly to put all your eggs in one basket.

But they're all so bullish.
Yeah! Why aren't these posters running their comments past their compliance department for an appropriate disclaimer?

The value of Cryptocurrencies may go rapidly down as well as up. Your capital is at risk. All PR posts by Zakar are for general information purposes only and should not be construed as financial advice.

Immsre that sounded really clever when you typed it in, however how small is your portfolio if diversification means 1,000's of people haven't invested at least 100 euro's ?
Because people buy and sell investments you bell end... plus fudge all people knew about bitcoin then. It's like saying why didn't all Microsoft investors put all their money in when Bill Gates was working in his garage.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:31 pm
by tiddle
why didn't everyone buy apple stock when it was a failing company?

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:34 pm
by bimboman
Zakar wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Zakar wrote:
bimboman wrote:
tiddle wrote:Most posters here who are invested in them, have stated the value can be volatile so it would be silly to put all your eggs in one basket.

But they're all so bullish.
Yeah! Why aren't these posters running their comments past their compliance department for an appropriate disclaimer?

The value of Cryptocurrencies may go rapidly down as well as up. Your capital is at risk. All PR posts by Zakar are for general information purposes only and should not be construed as financial advice.
Immsre that sounded really clever when you typed it in, however how small is your portfolio if diversification means 1,000's of people haven't invested at least 100 euro's ?
Because people buy and sell investments you bell end... plus fudge all people knew about bitcoin then. It's like saying why didn't all Microsoft investors put all their money in when Bill Gates was working in his garage.

When Microsoft broke big though there were stories all over the media of the initial investors and their profits. They were known and discussed. Where are the billionaires ?

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:34 pm
by Zakar
bimboman wrote:
I'm ignoring your first paragraph as youre smart enough to know why that's obtuse.

Absolutely it's a capital gain and is taxable. However as the bitcoin exchanges didn't have any kyc for a long time, ive no doubt that plenty evaded tax on them.
Why is it obtuse ? Where are all the billionaires ?

Why is it a capital gain ? Why isn't it trading income ?
Depends on how you operate. Under Australian Tax law, it would be treated as a capital gain unless you were trading in a business like fashion. In the UK the rule of trading income v capital is based on 'overall impression'

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:36 pm
by bimboman
tiddle wrote:why didn't everyone buy apple stock when it was a failing company?


I don't know, bit coin has returned a much greater % than Apple stock btw.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:37 pm
by bimboman
Zakar wrote:
bimboman wrote:
I'm ignoring your first paragraph as youre smart enough to know why that's obtuse.

Absolutely it's a capital gain and is taxable. However as the bitcoin exchanges didn't have any kyc for a long time, ive no doubt that plenty evaded tax on them.
Why is it obtuse ? Where are all the billionaires ?

Why is it a capital gain ? Why isn't it trading income ?
Depends on how you operate. Under Australian Tax law, it would be treated as a capital gain unless you were trading in a business like fashion. In the UK the rule of trading income v capital is based on 'overall impression'

Why aren't the spread betting irks offering tax free bets on bit coins ?

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:46 pm
by Zakar
bimboman wrote:

When Microsoft broke big though there were stories all over the media of the initial investors and their profits. They were known and discussed. Where are the billionaires ?
1. Bitcoins were released over time, so there were less to hold from day dot.
2. It was initially thought of being more of an anarchist currency - one of the first transactions was 10k BTC for a pizza. Anyone want to work out what that is today?
3. An easential element of bitcoin is its confidentiality. There isn't a share register like micosoft.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:47 pm
by Zakar
bimboman wrote:
Zakar wrote:
bimboman wrote:
I'm ignoring your first paragraph as youre smart enough to know why that's obtuse.

Absolutely it's a capital gain and is taxable. However as the bitcoin exchanges didn't have any kyc for a long time, ive no doubt that plenty evaded tax on them.
Why is it obtuse ? Where are all the billionaires ?

Why is it a capital gain ? Why isn't it trading income ?
Depends on how you operate. Under Australian Tax law, it would be treated as a capital gain unless you were trading in a business like fashion. In the UK the rule of trading income v capital is based on 'overall impression'

Why aren't the spread betting irks offering tax free bets on bit coins ?
IG is offering CFDs I think.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:51 pm
by bimboman
Zakar wrote:
bimboman wrote:

When Microsoft broke big though there were stories all over the media of the initial investors and their profits. They were known and discussed. Where are the billionaires ?
1. Bitcoins were released over time, so there were less to hold from day dot.
2. It was initially thought of being more of an anarchist currency - one of the first transactions was 10k BTC for a pizza. Anyone want to work out what that is today?
3. An easential element of bitcoin is its confidentiality. There isn't a share register like micosoft.

ok, but how many 100 quids were available in 2011?

Yes I can see how they were viewed and that they weren't mainstream. However I'm genuinly amazed that every hedge fund seemed to miss it along with venture capitalists etc.

Share registers are completly anonymous below high % owner ships.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:58 pm
by Zakar
bimboman wrote:
Zakar wrote:
bimboman wrote:

When Microsoft broke big though there were stories all over the media of the initial investors and their profits. They were known and discussed. Where are the billionaires ?
1. Bitcoins were released over time, so there were less to hold from day dot.
2. It was initially thought of being more of an anarchist currency - one of the first transactions was 10k BTC for a pizza. Anyone want to work out what that is today?
3. An easential element of bitcoin is its confidentiality. There isn't a share register like micosoft.

ok, but how many 100 quids were available in 2011?

Yes I can see how they were viewed and that they weren't mainstream. However I'm genuinly amazed that every hedge fund seemed to miss it along with venture capitalists etc.

Share registers are completly anonymous below high % owner ships.
1. No idea.
2. So am I. Maybe some did - your not usually expected to report the source of your cap gains.
3. Yes, but we're talking about the billionaires are we not?

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:58 pm
by bimboman
Zakar wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Zakar wrote:
bimboman wrote:
I'm ignoring your first paragraph as youre smart enough to know why that's obtuse.

Absolutely it's a capital gain and is taxable. However as the bitcoin exchanges didn't have any kyc for a long time, ive no doubt that plenty evaded tax on them.
Why is it obtuse ? Where are all the billionaires ?

Why is it a capital gain ? Why isn't it trading income ?
Depends on how you operate. Under Australian Tax law, it would be treated as a capital gain unless you were trading in a business like fashion. In the UK the rule of trading income v capital is based on 'overall impression'

Why aren't the spread betting irks offering tax free bets on bit coins ?
IG is offering CFDs I think.

:thumbup: , just tried to buy some needs a minimum of 630 quid for their minimum size.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:00 pm
by bimboman
Zakar wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Zakar wrote:
bimboman wrote:

When Microsoft broke big though there were stories all over the media of the initial investors and their profits. They were known and discussed. Where are the billionaires ?
1. Bitcoins were released over time, so there were less to hold from day dot.
2. It was initially thought of being more of an anarchist currency - one of the first transactions was 10k BTC for a pizza. Anyone want to work out what that is today?
3. An easential element of bitcoin is its confidentiality. There isn't a share register like micosoft.

ok, but how many 100 quids were available in 2011?

Yes I can see how they were viewed and that they weren't mainstream. However I'm genuinly amazed that every hedge fund seemed to miss it along with venture capitalists etc.

Share registers are completly anonymous below high % owner ships.
1. No idea.
2. So am I. Maybe some did - your not usually expected to report the source of your cap gains.
3. Yes, but we're talking about the billionaires are we not?

What ? No you're not talking about billionaires in Microsoft (they're all mostly known and have even had films made about them n stuff).

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:14 pm
by Duff Paddy
It's anonymous so unless you want to pay a lot of tax then surely you would keep your mouth shut

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:22 pm
by bimboman
Duff Paddy wrote:It's anonymous so unless you want to pay a lot of tax then surely you would keep your mouth shut

It's no real difference to other types of trading and investment, tax is a trust system.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:33 pm
by Cartman
Bought 1000 ripples yesterday
Math is not my strong suit but it seems the most i can lose is 170 odd US dollars (if it goes to nil)
Not bad I say
Bought it on my cfd account at avatrade, so "cost" me almost nothing

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:08 am
by kiwinoz
Cartman wrote:Bought 1000 ripples yesterday
Math is not my strong suit but it seems the most i can lose is 170 odd US dollars (if it goes to nil)
Not bad I say
Bought it on my cfd account at avatrade, so "cost" me almost nothing
A CFD on a volatile thing like a crypto? Good luck.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:34 am
by Ted.
RuggaBugga wrote:
TheBouncer wrote:As I understand it NZD is a disaster for eth... either pay a premium or buy bitcoin and exchange that for eth on shapeshift, poloniex or another token transfer site. Note, the sites that avoid fiat like those I've mentioned are very user-friendly, no arduous verification process.

DO NOT LEAVE substantial amounts on these exchanges. If anyone needs help with cold storage post here.

TheBouncer wrote:
Crash_12 wrote:Would 100 gbp on Ethereum right here and now be a solid bet?
Yes

Has anyone any factom? Will research this week but looks very interesting.
Since this post last night factom is up 50%

:lol: :lol:

#cryptolife
How bout this site? Look ok?

https://www.independentreserve.com
I'd like to know the answer to this, too.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:31 am
by w0rdtothe3rd
They all look okay until someone runs off to China with your coins.

I'd stick with coinbase tbh. The fees are a bit cheeky and they don't handle heavy traffic very well but they're pretty solid compared to the alternatives; real sticklers for compliance. A former federal prosecutor joined their board of directors recently.

Bittrex is good for altcoins.

Here's a good guide on cold storage and backup.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:39 am
by Ted.
w0rdtothe3rd wrote:They all look okay until someone runs off to China with your coins.

I'd stick with coinbase tbh. The fees are a bit cheeky and they don't handle heavy traffic very well but they're pretty solid compared to the alternatives; real sticklers for compliance. A former federal prosecutor joined their board of directors recently.

Bittrex is good for altcoins.

Here's a good guide on cold storage and backup.
I don't think Coinbase is any good from within NZ.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:42 am
by kiwinoz
Ted. wrote:
w0rdtothe3rd wrote:They all look okay until someone runs off to China with your coins.

I'd stick with coinbase tbh. The fees are a bit cheeky and they don't handle heavy traffic very well but they're pretty solid compared to the alternatives; real sticklers for compliance. A former federal prosecutor joined their board of directors recently.

Bittrex is good for altcoins.

Here's a good guide on cold storage and backup.
I don't think Coinbase is any good from within NZ.
Dont keep your BTC/ETC etc on the exchange - you need to move it from Coinbase to a wallet. Coinbase will let you buy in AUD but cant sell. You have to move it. NZ would be similar. Buying BTC in NZ seems easy enough.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:24 pm
by Ted.
kiwinoz wrote:
Ted. wrote:
w0rdtothe3rd wrote:They all look okay until someone runs off to China with your coins.

I'd stick with coinbase tbh. The fees are a bit cheeky and they don't handle heavy traffic very well but they're pretty solid compared to the alternatives; real sticklers for compliance. A former federal prosecutor joined their board of directors recently.

Bittrex is good for altcoins.

Here's a good guide on cold storage and backup.
I don't think Coinbase is any good from within NZ.
Dont keep your BTC/ETC etc on the exchange - you need to move it from Coinbase to a wallet. Coinbase will let you buy in AUD but cant sell. You have to move it. NZ would be similar. Buying BTC in NZ seems easy enough.
The issue is purchasing with NZD from within NZ, the options seem to be very new and little known. I want to toe dip with Ether purchasing with NZD, is there a reliable exchange that does that? Rugga Bugga posted a link to an exchange (or whatever its called) that will deal in NZD, but no one responded to his or my query as to whether it was safe.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:03 pm
by w0rdtothe3rd
I had a look. It's a no-name exchange without any reputation to speak of. I wouldn't trust anyone who vouches for it.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:55 pm
by TheBouncer
I don't think this is the bottom. The August 1st date looms large and it's clearly on everyone's mind reading around. A hard fork would be very interesting.

I'm still bullish but fudge me this stuff is no joke.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:04 am
by RuggaBugga
w0rdtothe3rd wrote:I had a look. It's a no-name exchange without any reputation to speak of. I wouldn't trust anyone who vouches for it.
It appears the problem is getting the bitcoin using NZD. Theoretically I could purchase through them and then immediately transfer out to another exchange such as coinbase and the diversify out to ETH or some of the others?

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:49 am
by derriz
About $32m dollars of ether were just stolen by hackers. This is after the DAO debacle where $150m was stolen. Last week $7m worth of dashcoin - an ether ICO - were stolen.

I looked at Etherium after missing out on bitcoin. I'm not an expert on blockchain but I'm sure they got that part of it right. However I looked at their self-designed smart contract language and it's a joke - an open invitation to hackers - effectively impossible to verify the security of a contract. These robberies will not stop since this is such a significant part of ether.

Also the ICO madness looks like a classic bubble - particularly when you see the amounts of ether being taken off the table by charlatans like Bancor - http://hackingdistributed.com/2017/06/1 ... is-flawed/

Ether is probably great for some short term gambling but I'm skeptical about it's longterm future. Bitcoin is probably a better bet as a long term hold if you want cryptocurrency exposure.

And I don't think "currency" is a good word for this stuff - they should be considered commodities until they start fullfilling the role of a medium of exchange (for other "real" stuff - not pyramid scheme like the new-flavour coins offered in an ICO).

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:14 am
by TheBouncer
derriz wrote:About $32m dollars of ether were just stolen by hackers. This is after the DAO debacle where $150m was stolen. Last week $7m worth of dashcoin - an ether ICO - were stolen.

I looked at Etherium after missing out on bitcoin. I'm not an expert on blockchain but I'm sure they got that part of it right. However I looked at their self-designed smart contract language and it's a joke - an open invitation to hackers - effectively impossible to verify the security of a contract. These robberies will not stop since this is such a significant part of ether.

Also the ICO madness looks like a classic bubble - particularly when you see the amounts of ether being taken off the table by charlatans like Bancor - http://hackingdistributed.com/2017/06/1 ... is-flawed/

Ether is probably great for some short term gambling but I'm skeptical about it's longterm future. Bitcoin is probably a better bet as a long term hold if you want cryptocurrency exposure.

And I don't think "currency" is a good word for this stuff - they should be considered commodities until they start fullfilling the role of a medium of exchange (for other "real" stuff - not pyramid scheme like the new-flavour coins offered in an ICO).
Are you attributing these hacks to flaws in Solidity? TheDAO was ill-conceived, rushed and terribly executed but you'll have to explain what the language had to do with it. Likewise the Parity multi-sig was just terribly written code (all the more extraordinary with an ethereum founder behind it)

Last night is a perfect case for people's apprehension about this stuff but I've never seen anyone identify Solidity as the issue before.

That the ICOs are a bubble is plain as day, I'm just interested to see the impact on the ethereum layer. I think a few prominent ones could come unstuck before long so it'll be interesting.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:29 am
by derriz
TheBouncer wrote: Are you attributing these hacks to flaws in Solidity? TheDAO was ill-conceived, rushed and terribly executed but you'll have to explain what the language had to do with it. Likewise the Parity multi-sig was just terribly written code (all the more extraordinary with an ethereum founder behind it)

Last night is a perfect case for people's apprehension about this stuff but I've never seen anyone identify Solidity as the issue before.

That the ICOs are a bubble is plain as day, I'm just interested to see the impact on the ethereum layer. I think a few prominent ones could come unstuck before long so it'll be interesting.
I am indeed attributing these hacks to the flawed design of Solidity. If an Etherium founder cannot write a safe contract in this language, then that tells you something. It's basically a fücked up version of Javascript - which was an extremely odd language to pick as a base given it's history and reputation for allowing security breaches (on the web).

Just googled it btw and it seems I'm not the only one who spotted this. Admittedly this is from a competitor startup so are hardly unbiased but it chimes with what I saw: JP Morgan’s Blockchain Researchers Discussed Ethereum’s Shortcomings Before DAO Hack

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:48 am
by kiwinoz
Its still the Wild West for cryptos. Volatility of 20% plus is not what a reliable currency alternative needs.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:51 am
by Zakar
kiwinoz wrote:Its still the Wild West for cryptos. Volatility of 20% plus is not what a reliable currency alternative needs.
Yeah, it's not a currency alternative at the moment. More like rare earth metals

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:03 pm
by The Sun God
Bitcoin took a right old kicking last week with values dropping from 2400 to about 1800 on fears of a fork ( split ) happening shortly. Very volatile product.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:28 pm
by sorCrer
The Sun God wrote:Bitcoin took a right old kicking last week with values dropping from 2400 to about 1800 on fears of a fork ( split ) happening shortly. Very volatile product.

Currently at $2766

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:31 pm
by Cartman
sorCrer wrote:
The Sun God wrote:Bitcoin took a right old kicking last week with values dropping from 2400 to about 1800 on fears of a fork ( split ) happening shortly. Very volatile product.

Currently at $2766
Jesus :o
Fcuk you ripple

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:37 pm
by derriz
TheBouncer wrote: That the ICOs are a bubble is plain as day, I'm just interested to see the impact on the ethereum layer. I think a few prominent ones could come unstuck before long so it'll be interesting.
Talking of which - https://uetoken.com
The UET ICO transparently offers investors no value, so there will be no expectation of gains.
I learned all about Ethereum smart contracts and Solidity over a weekend so I could launch this ICO.
He's already raised over $70K :lol: :lol:

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:53 pm
by The Sun God
sorCrer wrote:
The Sun God wrote:Bitcoin took a right old kicking last week with values dropping from 2400 to about 1800 on fears of a fork ( split ) happening shortly. Very volatile product.

Currently at $2766
You can't trade that shit.It goes against every natural instinct and every style of trading I have used for 30 years.It ignores fundamentals and forget about charts. Prefer to go to Vegas and put my money on 'black'.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:59 pm
by sorCrer
The Sun God wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
The Sun God wrote:Bitcoin took a right old kicking last week with values dropping from 2400 to about 1800 on fears of a fork ( split ) happening shortly. Very volatile product.

Currently at $2766


You can't trade that shit.It goes against every natural instinct and every style of trading I have used for 30 years.It ignores fundamentals and forget about charts. Prefer to go to Vegas and put my money on 'black'.

Agreed far too volatile. A small portion of the portfolio and hodl.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:42 pm
by derriz
Another week, another ethereum hack:
Veritaseum has confirmed today that a hacker stole $8.4 million from the platform's ICO on Sunday, July 23. This is the second ICO hack in the last week and the fourth hack of an Ethereum platform this month.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:53 pm
by theo
derriz wrote:Another week, another ethereum hack:
Veritaseum has confirmed today that a hacker stole $8.4 million from the platform's ICO on Sunday, July 23. This is the second ICO hack in the last week and the fourth hack of an Ethereum platform this month.
Ouch.

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:04 pm
by sorCrer
$3900

Re: €100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:49 am
by sorCrer
$4150

$5000 is on it's way.