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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:23 pm 
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Leinster in London wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I've done some sophisticated chart work. It's going down to $500.

The print edition of the Telegraph this morning lead with a story about Lloyds putting the kybosh on folk buying cryptos on their credit cards.


Instinctively the damage has already been done. They've more than likely just realised that between the middle of Dec and mid Jan a couple of hundred thousand people maxed their credit card with BTC purchase. Maybe a couple of billion spent with their customers exposed to approx £1bn losses.


I think poor TranceNRG is one of them. The people encouraging others to invest in this recently are scum.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Leinster in London wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I've done some sophisticated chart work. It's going down to $500.

The print edition of the Telegraph this morning lead with a story about Lloyds putting the kybosh on folk buying cryptos on their credit cards.


Instinctively the damage has already been done. They've more than likely just realised that between the middle of Dec and mid Jan a couple of hundred thousand people maxed their credit card with BTC purchase. Maybe a couple of billion spent with their customers exposed to approx £1bn losses.


Yep. It's a funny old bank. It just parks itself on the High Street not doing very much but people tend to forget that it's the largest bank in the UK, and by a distance. António is probably tearing strips off his Retail and Cards people.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:28 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
Leinster in London wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I've done some sophisticated chart work. It's going down to $500.

The print edition of the Telegraph this morning lead with a story about Lloyds putting the kybosh on folk buying cryptos on their credit cards.


Instinctively the damage has already been done. They've more than likely just realised that between the middle of Dec and mid Jan a couple of hundred thousand people maxed their credit card with BTC purchase. Maybe a couple of billion spent with their customers exposed to approx £1bn losses.


I think poor TranceNRG is one of them. The people encouraging others to invest in this recently are scum.


The Lee brothers should be arrested and thrown in prison. One in China, and one in the US. Find a crime and pin them with it. People are going to be ropeable about this, and pretty soon.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:33 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
Leinster in London wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I've done some sophisticated chart work. It's going down to $500.

The print edition of the Telegraph this morning lead with a story about Lloyds putting the kybosh on folk buying cryptos on their credit cards.


Instinctively the damage has already been done. They've more than likely just realised that between the middle of Dec and mid Jan a couple of hundred thousand people maxed their credit card with BTC purchase. Maybe a couple of billion spent with their customers exposed to approx £1bn losses.


I think poor TranceNRG is one of them. The people encouraging others to invest in this recently are scum.

You don't think the pink sheets are gonna save the day then?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:34 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
I've done some sophisticated chart work. It's going down to $500.

The print edition of the Telegraph this morning lead with a story about Lloyds putting the kybosh on folk buying cryptos on their credit cards.

Were there any stories about celebs making millions from cyrptos for selling a souvenir? That could be a game changer, or at least sucker a few more people into buying.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:37 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Bowens wrote:
Leinster in London wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I've done some sophisticated chart work. It's going down to $500.

The print edition of the Telegraph this morning lead with a story about Lloyds putting the kybosh on folk buying cryptos on their credit cards.


Instinctively the damage has already been done. They've more than likely just realised that between the middle of Dec and mid Jan a couple of hundred thousand people maxed their credit card with BTC purchase. Maybe a couple of billion spent with their customers exposed to approx £1bn losses.


I think poor TranceNRG is one of them. The people encouraging others to invest in this recently are scum.

You don't think the pink sheets are gonna save the day then?


There's definitely some pump and dump going on here.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:40 pm 
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How much has the US Stock market lost in the last week?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:43 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
How much has the US Stock market lost in the last week?


Good grief.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
How much has the US Stock market lost in the last week?


Good grief.


It's a serious question? You seem to forget that I've been involved in cryptocurrencies for 6 years this year. I've been through several major crashes. The technology is here to stay.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:48 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
How much has the US Stock market lost in the last week?


Good grief.


It's a serious question? You seem to forget that I've been involved in cryptocurrencies for 6 years this year. I've been through several major crashes. The technology is here to stay.


You are a complete clown.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:52 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
How much has the US Stock market lost in the last week?


Good grief.


It's a serious question? You seem to forget that I've been involved in cryptocurrencies for 6 years this year. I've been through several major crashes. The technology is here to stay.


You are a complete clown.


You don't even know me. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:05 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
How much has the US Stock market lost in the last week?


Good grief.


It's a serious question? You seem to forget that I've been involved in cryptocurrencies for 6 years this year. I've been through several major crashes. The technology is here to stay.



The S&P is down 3.28% on the week. Bitcoin is down 33% , there's no risk comparison


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Bitcoin and the more general cryptomarket have gone through numerous crashes, with each one joyously declared the death of Bitcoin by various nocoiners, and a subsequent all time high for BTC following that. Is there any reason in particular that this is going to be the crash to end all crashes?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:11 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
How much has the US Stock market lost in the last week?


Good grief.


It's a serious question? You seem to forget that I've been involved in cryptocurrencies for 6 years this year. I've been through several major crashes. The technology is here to stay.



The S&P is down 3.28% on the week. Bitcoin is down 33% , there's no risk comparison


Of course there is no risk comparison. It's about $1 trillion? 2 times the size of the entire crypto market? Anyway, regardless, everyone has been expecting this since the massive surge late November.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:15 pm 
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goeagles wrote:
Bitcoin and the more general cryptomarket have gone through numerous crashes, with each one joyously declared the death of Bitcoin by various nocoiners, and a subsequent all time high for BTC following that. Is there any reason in particular that this is going to be the crash to end all crashes?



When would you say 60% losses had occurred 2013 ? Why did that happen ?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:16 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
How much has the US Stock market lost in the last week?


Good grief.


It's a serious question? You seem to forget that I've been involved in cryptocurrencies for 6 years this year. I've been through several major crashes. The technology is here to stay.



The S&P is down 3.28% on the week. Bitcoin is down 33% , there's no risk comparison


Of course there is no risk comparison. It's about $1 trillion? 2 times the size of the entire crypto market? Anyway, regardless, everyone has been expecting this since the massive surge late November.



So you sold short ?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:21 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Bitcoin and the more general cryptomarket have gone through numerous crashes, with each one joyously declared the death of Bitcoin by various nocoiners, and a subsequent all time high for BTC following that. Is there any reason in particular that this is going to be the crash to end all crashes?



When would you say 60% losses had occurred 2013 ? Why did that happen ?


No idea what you're getting at here.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:22 pm 
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bimboman wrote:


So you sold short ?


More like stopped short by Frank Costanza.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:25 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:

Good grief.


It's a serious question? You seem to forget that I've been involved in cryptocurrencies for 6 years this year. I've been through several major crashes. The technology is here to stay.



The S&P is down 3.28% on the week. Bitcoin is down 33% , there's no risk comparison


Of course there is no risk comparison. It's about $1 trillion? 2 times the size of the entire crypto market? Anyway, regardless, everyone has been expecting this since the massive surge late November.



So you sold short ?


What I've been doing is minute trading selling on RSI crossovers (sometimes preempting crossovers with a guess confident the market is falling) and following this with a trailing stop buy at a couple of $. Normally around the 1BTC mark per trade so make about 0.7% - 1%.

The end game is not to have more $USD it's to have more BTC (or other major market cap crypto)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
bimboman wrote:

So you sold short ?


More like stopped short by Frank Costanza.


:lol: You must really be hurting a bit SON?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:35 pm 
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Bowens wrote:
Leinster in London wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I've done some sophisticated chart work. It's going down to $500.

The print edition of the Telegraph this morning lead with a story about Lloyds putting the kybosh on folk buying cryptos on their credit cards.


Instinctively the damage has already been done. They've more than likely just realised that between the middle of Dec and mid Jan a couple of hundred thousand people maxed their credit card with BTC purchase. Maybe a couple of billion spent with their customers exposed to approx £1bn losses.


I think poor TranceNRG is one of them. The people encouraging others to invest in this recently are scum.


Nah I'm alright, I only spent about 2,3 grand on Bitcoins, Ethereum and Ripple. If they collapse it's not the end of the world for me as its only about 2% of my investments though I'd be annoyed naturally. And no I didn't bottow money to invest in Cryptos.
I do feel for loads of people who spent a lot more including a couple of my colleagues who have invested heavily in them.
Having said that I'm not sure this is the end of these coins. I'll just hold them and see what happens.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:36 pm 
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TranceNRG wrote:
Bowens wrote:
Leinster in London wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I've done some sophisticated chart work. It's going down to $500.

The print edition of the Telegraph this morning lead with a story about Lloyds putting the kybosh on folk buying cryptos on their credit cards.


Instinctively the damage has already been done. They've more than likely just realised that between the middle of Dec and mid Jan a couple of hundred thousand people maxed their credit card with BTC purchase. Maybe a couple of billion spent with their customers exposed to approx £1bn losses.


I think poor TranceNRG is one of them. The people encouraging others to invest in this recently are scum.


Nah I'm alright, I only spent about 2,3 grand on Bitcoins, Ethereum and Ripple. If they collapse it's not the end of the world for me as its only about 2% of my investments though I'd be annoyed naturally. And no I didn't bottow money to invest in Cryptos.
I do feel for loads of people who spent a lot more including a couple of my colleagues who have invested heavily in them.
Having said that I'm not sure this is the end of these coins. I'll just hold them and see what happens.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:59 pm 
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[quote="sorCrer"]
The end game is not to have more $USD it's to have more BTC (or other major market cap crypto)[/quote]


And it's a really weird endgame too. What's the point of it? It's a finite resource. The less dispersed the ownership the less liquid, the less useful and the less valuable. And that's assuming it eventually gets a use in the first place.

You're treating it like gold. It's not gold.

Let me ask you this: how rich would you be if owned all of the Bitcoins?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Santa wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
The end game is not to have more $USD it's to have more BTC (or other major market cap crypto)



And it's a really weird endgame too. What's the point of it? It's a finite resource. The less dispersed the ownership the less liquid, the less useful and the less valuable. And that's assuming it eventually gets a use in the first place.

You're treating it like gold. It's not gold.

Let me ask you this: how rich would you be if owned all of the Bitcoins?


As rich as Smaug the Dragon


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Quote:
What I've been doing is minute trading selling on RSI crossovers (sometimes preempting crossovers with a guess confident the market is falling) and following this with a trailing stop buy at a couple of $. Normally around the 1BTC mark per trade so make about 0.7% - 1%.

The end game is not to have more $USD it's to have more BTC (or other major market cap crypto)


But if you knew this collapse was coming you'd have doubled your BTC holding if you'd sold them then and bought them back today. It makes little sense not doing that IF you knew this was going to happen.

Plus the end game will still be valued in USD in your life time. Stop it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:22 pm 
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goeagles wrote:
bimboman wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Bitcoin and the more general cryptomarket have gone through numerous crashes, with each one joyously declared the death of Bitcoin by various nocoiners, and a subsequent all time high for BTC following that. Is there any reason in particular that this is going to be the crash to end all crashes?



When would you say 60% losses had occurred 2013 ? Why did that happen ?


No idea what you're getting at here.



Bitcoin hasn't had one of its "numerous crashes " of this depth since 2013, so understanding what happened then , why it occurred etc would be useful now.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:28 pm 
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I get the feeling that there's a strange conflation of cryptos as currency and as securities. As if buying cryptos buys you access to an additional cash flow that is apart from the use of the crypto as a currency.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:34 pm 
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Santa wrote:
I get the feeling that there's a strange conflation of cryptos as currency and as securities. As if buying cryptos buys you access to an additional cash flow that is apart from the use of the crypto as a currency.



In the case of ripple and etherum that may eventually be true. Though of course as pointed out earlier at this point they cannot have trading vol in large amounts.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:40 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
goeagles wrote:
bimboman wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Bitcoin and the more general cryptomarket have gone through numerous crashes, with each one joyously declared the death of Bitcoin by various nocoiners, and a subsequent all time high for BTC following that. Is there any reason in particular that this is going to be the crash to end all crashes?



When would you say 60% losses had occurred 2013 ? Why did that happen ?


No idea what you're getting at here.



Bitcoin hasn't had one of its "numerous crashes " of this depth since 2013, so understanding what happened then , why it occurred etc would be useful now.


I'm not sure of the endgame but over the years seeing a couple of other bubbly investments blowing up, I wonder if BTC is heading there too.
In the 90's Guinness Peat Aviation (Aircraft Leasing) tried to do an IPO. There were doubts laid, and the finance sector backed off. The net result was GPA ended up destroyed as an entity. Their business model survived though. In particular through executives that had worked for the company. Aircraft Leasing is now a major industry. The investment money is coming from Japanese banks & investment Funds rather than IPO's.
In the 00's was Baltimore. Here I'm sure the technology ideas survived although the company did not.

So although there is a proper business model behind cryptos, and the fact BTC were first, it does not protect them from market sentiment. The loss of investment confidence along with technological advances of their competitors could finish it in the near term.


Last edited by Leinster in London on Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:43 pm 
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Santa wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
The end game is not to have more $USD it's to have more BTC (or other major market cap crypto)



And it's a really weird endgame too. What's the point of it? It's a finite resource. The less dispersed the ownership the less liquid, the less useful and the less valuable. And that's assuming it eventually gets a use in the first place.

You're treating it like gold. It's not gold.

Let me ask you this: how rich would you be if owned all of the Bitcoins?


I'm treating it like cryptocurrency. I speculate, hodl, code and buy stuff with it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:51 pm 
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SEC Chairman Jay Clayton testimony today.


https://www.banking.senate.gov/public/? ... 894573D57D


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:02 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
Santa wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
The end game is not to have more $USD it's to have more BTC (or other major market cap crypto)



And it's a really weird endgame too. What's the point of it? It's a finite resource. The less dispersed the ownership the less liquid, the less useful and the less valuable. And that's assuming it eventually gets a use in the first place.

You're treating it like gold. It's not gold.

Let me ask you this: how rich would you be if owned all of the Bitcoins?


I'm treating it like cryptocurrency. I speculate, hodl, code and buy stuff with it.


Thats all valued in USD.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:07 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Santa wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
The end game is not to have more $USD it's to have more BTC (or other major market cap crypto)



And it's a really weird endgame too. What's the point of it? It's a finite resource. The less dispersed the ownership the less liquid, the less useful and the less valuable. And that's assuming it eventually gets a use in the first place.

You're treating it like gold. It's not gold.

Let me ask you this: how rich would you be if owned all of the Bitcoins?


I'm treating it like cryptocurrency. I speculate, hodl, code and buy stuff with it.


Thats all valued in USD.


Well, yes. Everything can pretty much be valued in USD. Although it's quite common amongst traders to value in Sats.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:13 pm 
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My point is you'll need USD or a currency equivalent .... You don't view your self as having lost money in the last week, but in your eventual plan of being long BTC you have, the book value has halved in any real trading terms you've lost money.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:47 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
My point is you'll need USD or a currency equivalent .... You don't view your self as having lost money in the last week, but in your eventual plan of being long BTC you have, the book value has halved in any real trading terms you've lost money.


The largest part (+80%) of my portfolio was bought at $350 - $600. The price of Bitcoin on this date one year ago was $1017. I bought the bulk of my XRP holdings at 0.06c


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:53 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
My point is you'll need USD or a currency equivalent .... You don't view your self as having lost money in the last week, but in your eventual plan of being long BTC you have, the book value has halved in any real trading terms you've lost money.


The largest part (+80%) of my portfolio was bought at $350 - $600. The price of Bitcoin on this date one year ago was $1017. I bought the bulk of my XRP holdings at 0.06c



Great, you are missing my point, if you sold all of it at $17,000 and bought them back today you'd have made a big profit. You seem to miss that traditional investments have their returns measuresd periodically against a new set price , if you don't do that performance isn't correctly measured.

As I've said to you before if you've a few million in coins sell some and buy real,world stuff with it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:04 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
My point is you'll need USD or a currency equivalent .... You don't view your self as having lost money in the last week, but in your eventual plan of being long BTC you have, the book value has halved in any real trading terms you've lost money.


The largest part (+80%) of my portfolio was bought at $350 - $600. The price of Bitcoin on this date one year ago was $1017. I bought the bulk of my XRP holdings at 0.06c



Great, you are missing my point, if you sold all of it at $17,000 and bought them back today you'd have made a big profit. You seem to miss that traditional investments have their returns measuresd periodically against a new set price , if you don't do that performance isn't correctly measured.

As I've said to you before if you've a few million in coins sell some and buy real,world stuff with it.


Roughly in agreement with you on this one insofar as that the value of a currency is only worth what you can buy with it. Of course if the USD tanked and I was able to buy less with the same amount of USD as previously, that would be similar. If I'm long-term bullish on anything, whether it's USD, Bitcoin, houses or even some random collectible, my goal would be to increase my holdings of that asset or asset class.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:09 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
My point is you'll need USD or a currency equivalent .... You don't view your self as having lost money in the last week, but in your eventual plan of being long BTC you have, the book value has halved in any real trading terms you've lost money.


The largest part (+80%) of my portfolio was bought at $350 - $600. The price of Bitcoin on this date one year ago was $1017. I bought the bulk of my XRP holdings at 0.06c



Great, you are missing my point, if you sold all of it at $17,000 and bought them back today you'd have made a big profit. You seem to miss that traditional investments have their returns measuresd periodically against a new set price , if you don't do that performance isn't correctly measured.

As I've said to you before if you've a few million in coins sell some and buy real,world stuff with it.


I did that before. There isn't really much that I can buy that will make me happier.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:29 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
My point is you'll need USD or a currency equivalent .... You don't view your self as having lost money in the last week, but in your eventual plan of being long BTC you have, the book value has halved in any real trading terms you've lost money.


The largest part (+80%) of my portfolio was bought at $350 - $600. The price of Bitcoin on this date one year ago was $1017. I bought the bulk of my XRP holdings at 0.06c



Great, you are missing my point, if you sold all of it at $17,000 and bought them back today you'd have made a big profit. You seem to miss that traditional investments have their returns measuresd periodically against a new set price , if you don't do that performance isn't correctly measured.

As I've said to you before if you've a few million in coins sell some and buy real,world stuff with it.


I did that before. There isn't really much that I can buy that will make me happier.


If you've got enough for your lifestyle and old age right now then why not. If you're trading though you need to sell into these dips if you can really see them coming. You will get more points.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:32 pm 
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goeagles wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
My point is you'll need USD or a currency equivalent .... You don't view your self as having lost money in the last week, but in your eventual plan of being long BTC you have, the book value has halved in any real trading terms you've lost money.


The largest part (+80%) of my portfolio was bought at $350 - $600. The price of Bitcoin on this date one year ago was $1017. I bought the bulk of my XRP holdings at 0.06c



Great, you are missing my point, if you sold all of it at $17,000 and bought them back today you'd have made a big profit. You seem to miss that traditional investments have their returns measuresd periodically against a new set price , if you don't do that performance isn't correctly measured.

As I've said to you before if you've a few million in coins sell some and buy real,world stuff with it.


Roughly in agreement with you on this one insofar as that the value of a currency is only worth what you can buy with it. Of course if the USD tanked and I was able to buy less with the same amount of USD as previously, that would be similar. If I'm long-term bullish on anything, whether it's USD, Bitcoin, houses or even some random collectible, my goal would be to increase my holdings of that asset or asset class.



Long term bullish is great but if you're trading with any aim to profit then selling into dips and buying back is standard. Unless you just keep going longer as it falls which makes sense if you believe in an eventual $million Bitcoin.


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