€100 of Bitcoin in 2010 = €70m today

bimboman · Post by **bimboman** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:51 pm

sorCrer wrote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourd ... oin-again/

Refer link to Wall Street Journal.

Hardly dead?

Nothing days replacing the petrodollar like Dunoon doughnuts.

FairWeather_Aussie · Post by **FairWeather_Aussie** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:51 pm

sorCrer wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
sorCrer wrote:Tulip fever never happened the way you may think it did.
And Bitcoin at around 10c to a dollar will be a winner
BTC at its current price is 10x what it was when we first started talking about it on here. A 'cryptocurrency' or derivative will replace hard currency. Despite the negativity around BTC for example, more and more of the younger generation are buying into it.

When you say buying into it, do you mean using it as a currency or speculating on it. It’s probably both.

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:52 pm

bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
sorCrer wrote:Tulip fever never happened the way you may think it did.
And Bitcoin at around 10c to a dollar will be a winner
BTC at its current price is 10x what it was when we first started talking about it on here. A 'cryptocurrency' or derivative will replace hard currency. Despite the negativity around BTC for example, more and more of the younger generation are buying into it.

It will only happen when the three or four largest powers allow it to happen. You get that right ?

I think you completely under estimate the power of government over society.

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:54 pm

FairWeather_Aussie wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
sorCrer wrote:Tulip fever never happened the way you may think it did.
And Bitcoin at around 10c to a dollar will be a winner
BTC at its current price is 10x what it was when we first started talking about it on here. A 'cryptocurrency' or derivative will replace hard currency. Despite the negativity around BTC for example, more and more of the younger generation are buying into it.
When you say buying into it, do you mean using it as a currency or speculating on it. It’s probably both.

Buying into the concept of cryptocurrency or a derivative.

FairWeather_Aussie · Post by **FairWeather_Aussie** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:55 pm

The ones using it as a currency will be holding it for a couple of minutes. The ones speculating will need to find someone to buy it a higher price. Who would they be?

Anonymous 1 · Post by **Anonymous 1** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:57 pm

sorCrer wrote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourd ... oin-again/

Refer link to Wall Street Journal.

Hardly dead?

I'm of the opinion it's here to stay. I just think that it's value continues to plummet you will keep saying how much more it's worth now than it was way back when. Just as you have been doing for the best part of a year.

bimboman · Post by **bimboman** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:01 pm

sorCrer wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
sorCrer wrote:Tulip fever never happened the way you may think it did.
And Bitcoin at around 10c to a dollar will be a winner
BTC at its current price is 10x what it was when we first started talking about it on here. A 'cryptocurrency' or derivative will replace hard currency. Despite the negativity around BTC for example, more and more of the younger generation are buying into it.

It will only happen when the three or four largest powers allow it to happen. You get that right ?
I think you completely under estimate the power of government over society.

I think that's my argument !

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:07 pm

Anonymous. wrote:
sorCrer wrote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourd ... oin-again/

Refer link to Wall Street Journal.

Hardly dead?
I'm of the opinion it's here to stay. I just think that it's value continues to plummet you will keep saying how much more it's worth now than it was way back when. Just as you have been doing for the best part of a year.

I've been posting positively about cryptocurrencies on here since 2014. It clearly isn't worth more now then it was a year ago but it has born the brunt of a continuous onslaught from more established financial thinking (understandably) and survived thus far.

FairWeather_Aussie · Post by **FairWeather_Aussie** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:09 pm

Sorcerer,

What do you think is the value of bitcoin, other than what you believe someone will pay you more for it? Tulips are beautiful, they look great when tryin to spice up your apartment without being too unmanly about it but I fail to see what cryptocurrencies have overtulips. I mean I can’t even hold them. Some of the logo’s are nice, but not quite as nice as a lovely red and yellow arrangement of tulips.

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:20 pm

FairWeather_Aussie wrote:Sorcerer,

What do you think is the value of bitcoin, other than what you believe someone will pay you more for it? Tulips are beautiful, they look great when tryin to spice up your apartment without being too unmanly about it but I fail to see what cryptocurrencies have overtulips. I mean I can’t even hold them. Some of the logo’s are nice, but not quite as nice as a lovely red and yellow arrangement of tulips.

There are many things that you can't physically hold today that have value.

E.g

The Dragon Lore style of AWP is the most expensive CS:GO skin ever sold – in January 2018 it was sold for $61,052.63. Of course, it wasn’t a usual Dragon Lore, but a souvenir one with a unique set of stickers: PGL, G2 Esports, Cloud9, and Tyler “Skadoodle” Latham, who was MVP at the Boston Major 2018 and played for Cloud9, the winner of the tournament. This skin is one of a kind, there are no more of its type.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/skins.cash ... skins/amp/

FairWeather_Aussie · Post by **FairWeather_Aussie** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:45 pm

sorCrer wrote:
FairWeather_Aussie wrote:Sorcerer,

What do you think is the value of bitcoin, other than what you believe someone will pay you more for it? Tulips are beautiful, they look great when tryin to spice up your apartment without being too unmanly about it but I fail to see what cryptocurrencies have overtulips. I mean I can’t even hold them. Some of the logo’s are nice, but not quite as nice as a lovely red and yellow arrangement of tulips.
There are many things that you can't physically hold today that have value.

E.g

The Dragon Lore style of AWP is the most expensive CS:GO skin ever sold – in January 2018 it was sold for $61,052.63. Of course, it wasn’t a usual Dragon Lore, but a souvenir one with a unique set of stickers: PGL, G2 Esports, Cloud9, and Tyler “Skadoodle” Latham, who was MVP at the Boston Major 2018 and played for Cloud9, the winner of the tournament. This skin is one of a kind, there are no more of its type.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/skins.cash ... skins/amp/

Well played. That made me laugh.

But as a serious question, I would like to understand what or where bitcoin holders believe its value value comes from?

Rumham · Post by **Rumham** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:48 pm

FairWeather_Aussie wrote: But as a serious question, I would like to understand what or where bitcoin holders believe its value value comes from?

Other than buying illicit goods online, wtf do you need to use it for?

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:09 am

Rumham wrote:
FairWeather_Aussie wrote: But as a serious question, I would like to understand what or where bitcoin holders believe its value value comes from?
Other than buying illicit goods online, wtf do you need to use it for?

Real time, borderless transactions/store of value?

FairWeather_Aussie · Post by **FairWeather_Aussie** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:19 am

sorCrer wrote:
Rumham wrote:
FairWeather_Aussie wrote: But as a serious question, I would like to understand what or where bitcoin holders believe its value value comes from?
Other than buying illicit goods online, wtf do you need to use it for?
Real time, borderless transactions/store of value?

How is it a store of value?

FairWeather_Aussie · Post by **FairWeather_Aussie** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:21 am

sorCrer wrote:
Rumham wrote:
FairWeather_Aussie wrote: But as a serious question, I would like to understand what or where bitcoin holders believe its value value comes from?
Other than buying illicit goods online, wtf do you need to use it for?
Real time, borderless transactions/store of value?

Shouldn’t you say a speculation you think someone will pay more for in the future?

bimboman · Post by **bimboman** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:24 am

sorCrer wrote:
Rumham wrote:
FairWeather_Aussie wrote: But as a serious question, I would like to understand what or where bitcoin holders believe its value value comes from?
Other than buying illicit goods online, wtf do you need to use it for?
Real time, borderless transactions/store of value?

It's not performing as a store of value.

Rumham · Post by **Rumham** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:40 am

sorCrer wrote:
Rumham wrote:
FairWeather_Aussie wrote: But as a serious question, I would like to understand what or where bitcoin holders believe its value value comes from?
Other than buying illicit goods online, wtf do you need to use it for?
Real time, borderless transactions/store of value?

There are many, many services offering this.

But the issue is I value actual currency over this fad. So there is no store of value whatsoever.

UncleFB · Post by **UncleFB** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:06 am

Rumham wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Rumham wrote:
FairWeather_Aussie wrote: But as a serious question, I would like to understand what or where bitcoin holders believe its value value comes from?
Other than buying illicit goods online, wtf do you need to use it for?
Real time, borderless transactions/store of value?
There are many, many services offering this.

But the issue is I value actual currency over this fad. So there is no store of value whatsoever.

Hasn't it only been the arrival of the Lightning Network that has allowed real time transactions?

Anonymous 1 · Post by **Anonymous 1** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:29 am

bimboman wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Rumham wrote:
FairWeather_Aussie wrote: But as a serious question, I would like to understand what or where bitcoin holders believe its value value comes from?
Other than buying illicit goods online, wtf do you need to use it for?
Real time, borderless transactions/store of value?

It's not performing as a store of value.

If you consider a sieve to be a store of water then you consider Bitcoin to be a store of value.

sewa · Post by **sewa** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:59 am

Burning your cash has a value, its limited and short lived. Like bitcoin

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:10 am

Of course it currently isn't a store of value due to heavy speculation allied to early adoption. This may change in future.

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:14 am

Rumham wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Rumham wrote:
FairWeather_Aussie wrote: But as a serious question, I would like to understand what or where bitcoin holders believe its value value comes from?
Other than buying illicit goods online, wtf do you need to use it for?
Real time, borderless transactions/store of value?
There are many, many services offering this.

But the issue is I value actual currency over this fad. So there is no store of value whatsoever.

There are? I presume they use a trusted 3rd party?

kiwinoz · Post by **kiwinoz** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:23 am

Just transferred LTC from US to my personal account. Instant. If I tried to move the equivalent in $ would take 1 to 2 days to show up in my account. Better still no third party ie a bank was needed or involved.

sewa · Post by **sewa** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:23 am

kiwinoz wrote:Just transferred LTC from US to my personal account. Instant. If I tried to move the equivalent in $ would take 1 to 2 days to show up in my account. Better still no third party ie a bank was needed or involved.

If you are the sort of person who can't budget well enough that you need this sort of urgent liquidity then maybe you aren't the financial expert we need

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:45 am

sewa wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:Just transferred LTC from US to my personal account. Instant. If I tried to move the equivalent in $ would take 1 to 2 days to show up in my account. Better still no third party ie a bank was needed or involved.
If you are the sort of person who can't budget well enough that you need this sort of urgent liquidity then maybe you aren't the financial expert we need

You're taking the piss a bit now, yes?

Here, this makes pleasant viewing for a change:

https://coin360.com/

sewa · Post by **sewa** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:53 am

sorCrer wrote:
sewa wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:Just transferred LTC from US to my personal account. Instant. If I tried to move the equivalent in $ would take 1 to 2 days to show up in my account. Better still no third party ie a bank was needed or involved.
If you are the sort of person who can't budget well enough that you need this sort of urgent liquidity then maybe you aren't the financial expert we need
You're taking the piss a bit now, yes?

Here, this makes pleasant viewing for a change:

https://coin360.com/

Nope, given I am an adult who can manage my finances why would I consider this a major perk? I actually keep my savings in a 30 day notice account. A bit of financial discipline is no big deal

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:00 am

sewa wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
sewa wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:Just transferred LTC from US to my personal account. Instant. If I tried to move the equivalent in $ would take 1 to 2 days to show up in my account. Better still no third party ie a bank was needed or involved.
If you are the sort of person who can't budget well enough that you need this sort of urgent liquidity then maybe you aren't the financial expert we need
You're taking the piss a bit now, yes?

Here, this makes pleasant viewing for a change:

https://coin360.com/
Nope, given I am an adult who can manage my finances why would I consider this a major perk? I actually keep my savings in a 30 day notice account. A bit of financial discipline is no big deal

I'm glad you're an adult interacting with other adults on here. OOI, what are the terms of access to the notice account? Instant withdrawal?

sewa · Post by **sewa** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:06 am

I have to inform the bank 30 days in advance if I want to remove funds. It's a great way to save, removes the temptation for impulse buying. It used to also attract higher rates of interest (sadly these are about 0%)

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:12 am

sewa wrote:I have to inform the bank 30 days in advance if I want to remove funds. It's a great way to save, removes the temptation for impulse buying. It used to also attract higher rates of interest (sadly these are about 0%)

Thats nice. However, I fail to see how this mitigates needing cash in the immediate future for an emergency or other pressing expense? Transferring money between international bank accounts in South Africa is not a simple task and is costly.

sewa · Post by **sewa** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:25 am

sorCrer wrote:
sewa wrote:I have to inform the bank 30 days in advance if I want to remove funds. It's a great way to save, removes the temptation for impulse buying. It used to also attract higher rates of interest (sadly these are about 0%)
Thats nice. However, I fail to see how this mitigates needing cash in the immediate future for an emergency or other pressing expense? Transferring money between international bank accounts in South Africa is not a simple task and is costly.

Well that's my core savings. I run a balance on my cash card each month and keep my credit card clear just in case. I can imagine its different in other countries ok

kiwinoz · Post by **kiwinoz** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:03 pm

sewa wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:Just transferred LTC from US to my personal account. Instant. If I tried to move the equivalent in $ would take 1 to 2 days to show up in my account. Better still no third party ie a bank was needed or involved.
If you are the sort of person who can't budget well enough that you need this sort of urgent liquidity then maybe you aren't the financial expert we need

WTF? I was speaking of the speed of the transaction and no more. I had purchased some more LTC on an exchange and was moving it to an off exchange wallet.

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:40 pm

kiwinoz wrote:
sewa wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:Just transferred LTC from US to my personal account. Instant. If I tried to move the equivalent in $ would take 1 to 2 days to show up in my account. Better still no third party ie a bank was needed or involved.
If you are the sort of person who can't budget well enough that you need this sort of urgent liquidity then maybe you aren't the financial expert we need
WTF? I was speaking of the speed of the transaction and no more. I had purchased some more LTC on an exchange and was moving it to an off exchange wallet.

The problem is that the critics on this thread by far and large have zero actual practical experience in using cryptocurrencies and are attacking the concept.

kiwinoz · Post by **kiwinoz** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:26 pm

It is also separating blockchain from cryptos and understanding the difference. I am working with a couple of clients on using the blockchain within their supply chain and not one BTC is involved.

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:25 pm

kiwinoz wrote:It is also separating blockchain from cryptos and understanding the difference. I am working with a couple of clients on using the blockchain within their supply chain and not one BTC is involved.

Yes look mate I sincerely hope it's niche or else:

derriz wrote:Outside of some tiny tiny niches, you'd be mad to consider building any application on blockchain.

derriz · Post by **derriz** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:14 pm

kiwinoz wrote:Just transferred LTC from US to my personal account. Instant. If I tried to move the equivalent in $ would take 1 to 2 days to show up in my account. Better still no third party ie a bank was needed or involved.

Amazing. I'm abroad and I just went to an ATM machine and transferred cash from my home bank acount into my wallet. Took about 20 seconds. Better still, there are real banks involved so if I get ripped off or my card get's stolen I don't lose out.

sorCrer · Post by **sorCrer** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:26 pm

derriz wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:Just transferred LTC from US to my personal account. Instant. If I tried to move the equivalent in $ would take 1 to 2 days to show up in my account. Better still no third party ie a bank was needed or involved.
Amazing. I'm abroad and I just went to an ATM machine and transferred cash from my home bank acount into my wallet. Took about 20 seconds. Better still, there are real banks involved so if I get ripped off or my card get's stolen I don't lose out.

Nice so you drew cash? And if I had to send you cash right now from South Africa? What approach would you recommend for that?

derriz · Post by **derriz** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:33 pm

sorCrer wrote:
derriz wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:Just transferred LTC from US to my personal account. Instant. If I tried to move the equivalent in $ would take 1 to 2 days to show up in my account. Better still no third party ie a bank was needed or involved.
Amazing. I'm abroad and I just went to an ATM machine and transferred cash from my home bank acount into my wallet. Took about 20 seconds. Better still, there are real banks involved so if I get ripped off or my card get's stolen I don't lose out.
Nice so you drew cash? And if I had to send you cash right now from South Africa? What approach would you recommend for that?

Not bitcoin.

derriz · Post by **derriz** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:38 pm

sorCrer wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:It is also separating blockchain from cryptos and understanding the difference. I am working with a couple of clients on using the blockchain within their supply chain and not one BTC is involved.
Yes look mate I sincerely hope it's niche or else:

derriz wrote:Outside of some tiny tiny niches, you'd be mad to consider building any application on blockchain.

Have you actually tried building a blockchain/smart contract based application? Come back to me when you have. Or I can save you the trouble - it's a load of bollox. And it's not just my experience - in the last 4 years billions have been spent on trying to build blockchain based aplications with nothing except a bunch of whitepapers and hype. Most projects have been cancelled - the ASX settlement system is about the only one I've heard of that hasn't been parked or killed after the proof-of-concept stage.

bimboman · Post by **bimboman** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:42 pm

https://komgo.io/

Rumham · Post by **Rumham** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:58 pm

sorCrer wrote:
derriz wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:Just transferred LTC from US to my personal account. Instant. If I tried to move the equivalent in $ would take 1 to 2 days to show up in my account. Better still no third party ie a bank was needed or involved.
Amazing. I'm abroad and I just went to an ATM machine and transferred cash from my home bank acount into my wallet. Took about 20 seconds. Better still, there are real banks involved so if I get ripped off or my card get's stolen I don't lose out.
Nice so you drew cash? And if I had to send you cash right now from South Africa? What approach would you recommend for that?

SA is a 3rd world country. This seems to be the root of most of your issues.