Haka Count

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Grizz Wyllie
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Grizz Wyllie »

dr dre2 wrote:
Grizz Wyllie wrote:
dr dre2 wrote:
Grizz Wyllie wrote:Let's boil it down, in dr dre2's eye the dude on the left looks silly doing the haka and the one on the right is fine to do it...


Image
Looks can be deceiving but whether it looks silly and whether it makes sense culturally are two different things. The white guy may look silly and make sense culturally. The other guy may be the opposite. Is the white guy 1/36 Maori having one in his ancestors but been brought up in an entirely European family otherwise?
What white guy? There's no white guy in that photo, and only one Maori...

Image
Yeah sorry to spoil your punch line but that was alluded to, it was telegraphed. He's descriptively white (blond, blue eyed).
And which of the two are you more comfortable with performing the haka?
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Re: Haka Count

Post by dr dre2 »

theaxe wrote:It's odd that Dre and Dai, two Welshmen are pushing this angle. A country whose identity has been almost swallowed whole by the English. You think that they would appreciate a nation where the original culture is celebrated by all. However I guess bitterness at seeing their country drift into irrelevance has taken over, which would explain they massive push for Brexit there, even voting against their better interests. Self loathing bitter Welshmen are a very good cautionary tale and show why NZ is doing the right thing, so perhaps we should thank Dre for showing us the folly of ignoring diversity...
You haven't listened to a word I've said, well done for that.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by dr dre2 »

Grizz Wyllie wrote:
dr dre2 wrote:
Grizz Wyllie wrote:
dr dre2 wrote:
Grizz Wyllie wrote:Let's boil it down, in dr dre2's eye the dude on the left looks silly doing the haka and the one on the right is fine to do it...


Image
Looks can be deceiving but whether it looks silly and whether it makes sense culturally are two different things. The white guy may look silly and make sense culturally. The other guy may be the opposite. Is the white guy 1/36 Maori having one in his ancestors but been brought up in an entirely European family otherwise?
What white guy? There's no white guy in that photo, and only one Maori...

Image
Yeah sorry to spoil your punch line but that was alluded to, it was telegraphed. He's descriptively white (blond, blue eyed).
And which of the two are you more comfortable with performing the haka?
I've covered that as well.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Croft »

dr dre2 wrote:
Croft wrote:I was just thinking that. It's the rape angle that could tip the balance against him.
See, now I always condemned it. I was just commenting on what another party did, splitting the one party in two, taking an open dig at one while offending the other while also defending them. And it's got to be fair game because, they will be accusing the British of the same crime in a minute.
:lol: :lol:

Love it, my brains going in three directions. It's top work. And you definitely condemn it so yeah, a rampaging triple B might face a gordian knot there. Then again he might just cut it Alexander style with a banhammer.
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Jays Myth
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Jays Myth »

Just so we're clear... are black guys allowed to play cricket? Or, would they look silly?
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Croft »

Jays Myth wrote:Just so we're clear... are black guys allowed to play cricket? Or, would they look silly?
Course they can and not silly at all. But I think Dre's point is that if they did a Viking war dance when the doing of war dances had long since died out in their own culture then they might. Especially if they had colnised the Vikings and been raping or something. Not sure there. But of course crickets fine. :thumbup:

Just footnote this by saying I don't necessarily support Dre's position, just makin' sense of it. :D
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Shrekles »

Croft wrote:
Jays Myth wrote:Just so we're clear... are black guys allowed to play cricket? Or, would they look silly?
Course they can and not silly at all. But I think Dre's point is that if they did a Viking war dance when the doing of war dances had long since died out in their own culture then they might. Especially if they had colnised the Vikings and been raping or something. Not sure there. But of course crickets fine. :thumbup:

Just footnote this by saying I don't necessarily support Dre's position, just makin' sense of it. :D
That's not what he is saying though. He is saying that if you look like a whitey you can't have any other culture than what was imposed by some genetic throwback in the far distant past irrespective of the culture you grew up in.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by icon »

But I think Dre's point is that if they did a Viking war dance when the doing of war dances had long since died out in their own culture then they might. Especially if they had colnised the Vikings and been raping or something. Not sure there. But of course crickets fine.

But what if the Vikings still actively war danced and the black cricketers, despite their ancestors’ invasive and rapey ways, eventually adopted the war dance, as it now represents the ‘culture’ they identify with - which is a significant step up from continuing to be identified and labelled in terms of ‘race’
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Thomas »

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Re: Haka Count

Post by Croft »

Shrekles wrote:
Croft wrote:
Jays Myth wrote:Just so we're clear... are black guys allowed to play cricket? Or, would they look silly?
Course they can and not silly at all. But I think Dre's point is that if they did a Viking war dance when the doing of war dances had long since died out in their own culture then they might. Especially if they had colnised the Vikings and been raping or something. Not sure there. But of course crickets fine. :thumbup:

Just footnote this by saying I don't necessarily support Dre's position, just makin' sense of it. :D
That's not what he is saying though. He is saying that if you look like a whitey you can't have any other culture than what was imposed by some genetic throwback in the far distant past irrespective of the culture you grew up in.
I think his argument was that the haka is the only part of the culture that some white guys do and therefore he's not meaning guys who might be of both races and grown up in it. But yeah obviously anyone can do anything they like as long as they're respecting what they're doing.

It's just the Lions and it's just haka time.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Croft »

icon wrote:
But I think Dre's point is that if they did a Viking war dance when the doing of war dances had long since died out in their own culture then they might. Especially if they had colnised the Vikings and been raping or something. Not sure there. But of course crickets fine.

But what if the Vikings still actively war danced and the black cricketers, despite their ancestors’ invasive and rapey ways, eventually adopted the war dance, as it now represents the ‘culture’ they identify with - which is a significant step up from continuing to be identified and labelled in terms of ‘race’
Now that's a very good point but what about guys like that lock Williams who used to look like he was licking windows? Basically where do you draw the line?
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Jays Myth »

I work for an international corporate and a couple of times a year we have guests visit from overseas. They are always welcomed with a Powhiri and then greeted by the management team with a hongi. Some of our team are English and Dutch and we're often welcoming Italians and Indians yet watching a Dutch guy hongi an Indian is a perfectly natural thing to do in NZ.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Calculus »

watching a Dutch guy hongi an Indian is a perfectly natural thing to do in NZ
:uhoh:
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Croft »

Jays Myth wrote:I work for an international corporate and a couple of times a year we have guests visit from overseas. They are always welcomed with a Powhiri and then greeted by the management team with a hongi. Some of our team are English and Dutch and we're often welcoming Italians and Indians yet watching a Dutch guy hongi an Indian is a perfectly natural thing to do in NZ.
I know it's simply part of the way people are welcomed by the culture of NZ. It's a clear way of saying this is NZ. It's a very healthy and natural thing. It's NZ. And it's just naturally developed over decades and is something all New Zealanders take for granted and is part of what makes New Zealand the unique and distinctive nation that it is. It's extremely healthy and progressive and without having been artificially forced. It developed because that's how New Zealanders feel and are together now in their shared naturally grown culture and it's deeply healthy and makes New Zealand one of the nicest countries in the world.

But Mog got fired by the kiwi mafia so fudge you.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Fat Old Git »

It's obviously shocking to some though. "NZ isn't like Britain in the 1800's. How is that possible?!" You would think the fact that Britain isn't like Britain in the 1800's would be a clue.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Thomas »

Croft wrote:
Jays Myth wrote:I work for an international corporate and a couple of times a year we have guests visit from overseas. They are always welcomed with a Powhiri and then greeted by the management team with a hongi. Some of our team are English and Dutch and we're often welcoming Italians and Indians yet watching a Dutch guy hongi an Indian is a perfectly natural thing to do in NZ.
I know it's simply part of the way people are welcomed by the culture of NZ. It's a clear way of saying this is NZ. It's a very healthy and natural thing. It's NZ. And it's just naturally developed over decades and is something all New Zealanders take for granted and is part of what makes New Zealand the unique and distinctive nation that it is. It's extremely healthy and progressive and without having been artificially forced. It developed because that's how New Zealanders feel and are together now in their shared naturally grown culture and it's deeply healthy and makes New Zealand one of the nicest countries in the world.

But Mog got fired by the kiwi mafia so f**k you.
Mog got banned because he's a cunt. Pure and simple.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by guy smiley »

Thomas wrote:
Croft wrote:
Jays Myth wrote:I work for an international corporate and a couple of times a year we have guests visit from overseas. They are always welcomed with a Powhiri and then greeted by the management team with a hongi. Some of our team are English and Dutch and we're often welcoming Italians and Indians yet watching a Dutch guy hongi an Indian is a perfectly natural thing to do in NZ.
I know it's simply part of the way people are welcomed by the culture of NZ. It's a clear way of saying this is NZ. It's a very healthy and natural thing. It's NZ. And it's just naturally developed over decades and is something all New Zealanders take for granted and is part of what makes New Zealand the unique and distinctive nation that it is. It's extremely healthy and progressive and without having been artificially forced. It developed because that's how New Zealanders feel and are together now in their shared naturally grown culture and it's deeply healthy and makes New Zealand one of the nicest countries in the world.

But Mog got fired by the kiwi mafia so f**k you.
Mog got banned because he's a cunt. Pure and simple.
True, very true. And pertinent...
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Floppykid »

Cromulent points all, but I want to hear Dre's take on the banning.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Croft »

Floppykid wrote:Cromulent points all, but I want to hear Dre's take on the banning.
I'm a thinkin' that you might like to see if that leads to more bannins.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by icon »

Now that's a very good point but what about guys like that lock Williams who used to look like he was licking windows? Basically where do you draw the line?

as nice as it would be to have a line drawn in front of window licking muppets like Williams, the Viking's war dance does allow for a little licking... so i guess you just gotta tolerate the overt, while preferring the subtle
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Re: Haka Count

Post by The Native »

Thomas wrote:
Croft wrote:
Jays Myth wrote:I work for an international corporate and a couple of times a year we have guests visit from overseas. They are always welcomed with a Powhiri and then greeted by the management team with a hongi. Some of our team are English and Dutch and we're often welcoming Italians and Indians yet watching a Dutch guy hongi an Indian is a perfectly natural thing to do in NZ.
I know it's simply part of the way people are welcomed by the culture of NZ. It's a clear way of saying this is NZ. It's a very healthy and natural thing. It's NZ. And it's just naturally developed over decades and is something all New Zealanders take for granted and is part of what makes New Zealand the unique and distinctive nation that it is. It's extremely healthy and progressive and without having been artificially forced. It developed because that's how New Zealanders feel and are together now in their shared naturally grown culture and it's deeply healthy and makes New Zealand one of the nicest countries in the world.

But Mog got fired by the kiwi mafia so f**k you.
Mog got banned because he's a cunt. Pure and simple.
Did he? Classic Mog!

EDIT: Just read the whole sorry saga. Christ he is comically oblivious.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Enzedder »

Croft wrote:
Shrekles wrote:
Croft wrote:
Jays Myth wrote:Just so we're clear... are black guys allowed to play cricket? Or, would they look silly?
Course they can and not silly at all. But I think Dre's point is that if they did a Viking war dance when the doing of war dances had long since died out in their own culture then they might. Especially if they had colnised the Vikings and been raping or something. Not sure there. But of course crickets fine. :thumbup:

Just footnote this by saying I don't necessarily support Dre's position, just makin' sense of it. :D
That's not what he is saying though. He is saying that if you look like a whitey you can't have any other culture than what was imposed by some genetic throwback in the far distant past irrespective of the culture you grew up in.
I think his argument was that the haka is the only part of the culture that some white guys do and therefore he's not meaning guys who might be of both races and grown up in it. But yeah obviously anyone can do anything they like as long as they're respecting what they're doing.

It's just the Lions and it's just haka time.
I will hongi with Dre when first we meet. that'll go down a treat.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Davedj77 »

Wow the sheer ignorance on display in this thread is mind boggling. I suggest Dr Dre comes to NZ, spend some time with us. Go to our schools, see how and what we learn from a very young age. See how Maori culture is integrated into our learning and development. See how ALL kids, Maori, Pakeha, Polynesian, Asian, Indian etc etc are involved in Maori cultural groups. I remember doing hakas from a young age, also learning Maori songs, learning to count, learning some basic language(on a side note I actually feel we probably don't go far enough with it, we should all learn the language and traditions a bit better).
You have to remember as a non-NZer that we are a very, very young country, we don't have hundreds of years of history. A lot of us 2nd or 3rd or 4th or whatever generation Pakehas don't really have our own history to learn, our own European culture because it's kind of been lost now that we are as far away from Europe as you can get. So a lot of us take a lot of pride in having a unique culture to learn and be a part of and that is all around us.
So sure, you can point and laugh at Pakehas doing a haka. That's up to you. But don't be surprised if people think you come across as a bigoted and ignorant dickhead if you do.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Thomas »

Davedj77 wrote:Wow the sheer ignorance on display in this thread is mind boggling. I suggest Dr Dre comes to NZ, spend some time with us. Go to our schools, see how and what we learn from a very young age. See how Maori culture is integrated into our learning and development. See how ALL kids, Maori, Pakeha, Polynesian, Asian, Indian etc etc are involved in Maori cultural groups. I remember doing hakas from a young age, also learning Maori songs, learning to count, learning some basic language(on a side note I actually feel we probably don't go far enough with it, we should all learn the language and traditions a bit better).
You have to remember as a non-NZer that we are a very, very young country, we don't have hundreds of years of history. A lot of us 2nd or 3rd or 4th or whatever generation Pakehas don't really have our own history to learn, our own European culture because it's kind of been lost now that we are as far away from Europe as you can get. So a lot of us take a lot of pride in having a unique culture to learn and be a part of and that is all around us.
So sure, you can point and laugh at Pakehas doing a haka. That's up to you. But don't be surprised if people think you come across as a bigoted and ignorant dickhead if you do.
Even as a skinny, loudmouthed white Aussie kid, I was integrated into the culture. I was even allowed to perform the haka with my school mates. Sure, I got beaten up afterwards but the sentiment was there.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Floppykid »

Would Swarm members be embraced into the bosom of the Haka?
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Davedj77 »

Thomas wrote:
Davedj77 wrote:Wow the sheer ignorance on display in this thread is mind boggling. I suggest Dr Dre comes to NZ, spend some time with us. Go to our schools, see how and what we learn from a very young age. See how Maori culture is integrated into our learning and development. See how ALL kids, Maori, Pakeha, Polynesian, Asian, Indian etc etc are involved in Maori cultural groups. I remember doing hakas from a young age, also learning Maori songs, learning to count, learning some basic language(on a side note I actually feel we probably don't go far enough with it, we should all learn the language and traditions a bit better).
You have to remember as a non-NZer that we are a very, very young country, we don't have hundreds of years of history. A lot of us 2nd or 3rd or 4th or whatever generation Pakehas don't really have our own history to learn, our own European culture because it's kind of been lost now that we are as far away from Europe as you can get. So a lot of us take a lot of pride in having a unique culture to learn and be a part of and that is all around us.
So sure, you can point and laugh at Pakehas doing a haka. That's up to you. But don't be surprised if people think you come across as a bigoted and ignorant dickhead if you do.
Even as a skinny, loudmouthed white Aussie kid, I was integrated into the culture. I was even allowed to perform the haka with my school mates. Sure, I got beaten up afterwards but the sentiment was there.
Well that's great, and getting beaten up is all part of it, wouldn't want you to miss out on the full experience!
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Dai another day »

Less than 2 hours to go before our Lions players face yet another Haka. This time performed by the Blues franchise.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by guy smiley »

Davedj77 wrote:Wow the sheer ignorance on display in this thread is mind boggling. I suggest Dr Dre comes to NZ, spend some time with us. Go to our schools, see how and what we learn from a very young age. See how Maori culture is integrated into our learning and development. See how ALL kids, Maori, Pakeha, Polynesian, Asian, Indian etc etc are involved in Maori cultural groups. I remember doing hakas from a young age, also learning Maori songs, learning to count, learning some basic language(on a side note I actually feel we probably don't go far enough with it, we should all learn the language and traditions a bit better).
You have to remember as a non-NZer that we are a very, very young country, we don't have hundreds of years of history. A lot of us 2nd or 3rd or 4th or whatever generation Pakehas don't really have our own history to learn, our own European culture because it's kind of been lost now that we are as far away from Europe as you can get. So a lot of us take a lot of pride in having a unique culture to learn and be a part of and that is all around us.
So sure, you can point and laugh at Pakehas doing a haka. That's up to you. But don't be surprised if people think you come across as a bigoted and ignorant dickhead if you do.

you've not been around here all that long I think, Daved... you'd not be familiar with the scintillating wit and humour that is trolling on all matters NZ and haka in this place.

It's so funny that most of us poor colonials don't really understand the complexities so we're better off just nodding the head and muttering something about m'lud when it goes on like this...

because these f**king hairy footed little bog trotting troglodytes get very f**king uppity if you call them on their prehistoric racist attitudes.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Dai another day »

There has been some very bigoted comments by you guys re Welsh culture.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by guy smiley »

Dai another day wrote:There has been some very bigoted comments by you guys re Welsh culture.
Now now, don't get all precious on us.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Dai another day »

Stucks and stunes, bro.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Kiwias »

Croft wrote:
Floppykid wrote:Cromulent points all, but I want to hear Dre's take on the banning.
I'm a thinkin' that you might like to see if that leads to more bannins.
One bannon is enough
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Thomas »

Dai another day wrote:There has been some very bigoted comments by you guys re Welsh culture.
Welsh "culture"
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Thomas »

Davedj77 wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Davedj77 wrote:Wow the sheer ignorance on display in this thread is mind boggling. I suggest Dr Dre comes to NZ, spend some time with us. Go to our schools, see how and what we learn from a very young age. See how Maori culture is integrated into our learning and development. See how ALL kids, Maori, Pakeha, Polynesian, Asian, Indian etc etc are involved in Maori cultural groups. I remember doing hakas from a young age, also learning Maori songs, learning to count, learning some basic language(on a side note I actually feel we probably don't go far enough with it, we should all learn the language and traditions a bit better).
You have to remember as a non-NZer that we are a very, very young country, we don't have hundreds of years of history. A lot of us 2nd or 3rd or 4th or whatever generation Pakehas don't really have our own history to learn, our own European culture because it's kind of been lost now that we are as far away from Europe as you can get. So a lot of us take a lot of pride in having a unique culture to learn and be a part of and that is all around us.
So sure, you can point and laugh at Pakehas doing a haka. That's up to you. But don't be surprised if people think you come across as a bigoted and ignorant dickhead if you do.
Even as a skinny, loudmouthed white Aussie kid, I was integrated into the culture. I was even allowed to perform the haka with my school mates. Sure, I got beaten up afterwards but the sentiment was there.
Well that's great, and getting beaten up is all part of it, wouldn't want you to miss out on the full experience!
Mate, when I absorb a culture I fucken absorb it properly.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Dai another day »

Thomas wrote:
Dai another day wrote:There has been some very bigoted comments by you guys re Welsh culture.
Welsh "culture"
Better than a culture formed around convicts you galah.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by guy smiley »

Dai another day wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Dai another day wrote:There has been some very bigoted comments by you guys re Welsh culture.
Welsh "culture"
Better than a culture formed around convicts you galah.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Dai another day »

Aboriginal culture is often just an afterthought in Australian society.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Thomas »

Dai another day wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Dai another day wrote:There has been some very bigoted comments by you guys re Welsh culture.
Welsh "culture"
Better than a culture formed around convicts you galah.
We have a vibrant culture that reflects our inclusive past.

We'd even accept you and your leek worshiping friends (even if you have a language that is just made up baby-babble).
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Re: Haka Count

Post by Dubh01 »

Dai another day wrote:There has been some very bigoted comments by you guys re Welsh culture.
Tell us more of this "Welsh Culture" of which you speak.
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Re: Haka Count

Post by SecretAgentMan »

Thomas wrote:Even as a skinny, loudmouthed white Aussie kid, I was integrated into the culture. I was even allowed to perform the haka with my school mates. Sure, I got beaten up afterwards but the sentiment was there.
:roll:
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