Itoje and the haka

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grubberkick
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Itoje and the haka

Post by grubberkick »

Do kiwis do self awareness? Why is it a problem if Itoje shows his emotion by clapping, whooping, arm in air if he achieves some success in all the effort that he puts into rugby? Presumably that's his cultural background. He has played one game and played well but gets the criticism. Yet look at what happened before the game kicked off. The entire kiwi team, even those with European heritage, went into a frenzy of hyper activity performing a maori war dance. Itoje has been a model of restraint by comparison. Whoop away Maro. ;)
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Mick Mannock »

I think it simply a matter of tradition. Give it a few more years and "woo woo" started by Tana in 2004, will be an accepted and revered part of the game.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by cubby boi »

grubberkick wrote:Do kiwis do self awareness? Why is it a problem if Itoje shows his emotion by clapping, whooping, arm in air if he achieves some success in all the effort that he puts into rugby? Presumably that's his cultural background. He has played one game and played well but gets the criticism. Yet look at what happened before the game kicked off. The entire kiwi team, even those with European heritage, went into a frenzy of hyper activity performing a maori war dance. Itoje has been a model of restraint by comparison. Whoop away Maro. ;)

Two wrongs don't make a right :thumbdown:
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Andalu »

I've seen as much criticism from the British and Irish. Personally I don't care too much. He's clearly enthusiastic, which is not a bad thing.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Bowens »

It's good to see some emotion out there compared to droids like Warburton.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Miester »

grubberkick wrote:Do kiwis do self awareness? Why is it a problem if Itoje shows his emotion by clapping, whooping, arm in air if he achieves some success in all the effort that he puts into rugby? Presumably that's his cultural background. He has played one game and played well but gets the criticism. Yet look at what happened before the game kicked off. The entire kiwi team, even those with European heritage, went into a frenzy of hyper activity performing a maori war dance. Itoje has been a model of restraint by comparison. Whoop away Maro. ;)
Your're comparing the Haka with Itoje's premature celebrating?, are calling the Haka childish?
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Hawk97 »

I've whooped on a rugby pitch to wind the opposition up. Right into their faces. At least he isn't doing that, you tarts.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by MrDominator »

A lot of it comes down to implicit racial bias.

People struggle with Itoje clapping because they don't like black men being demonstrative. The first rule any black man growing up in Western society learns is: Be calm - don't ever lose your temper or be emotional, because most white people can't handle it.

Equally, a lot of the Haka hate also comes because white people don't like Pacific-looking chappies sticking their tongues out and gurning aggressively. It stirs long-buried imperialist notions about the dangers posed by 'savages', etc.

The whole tour makes for fascinating social and anthropological observation.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Mr Mike »

Andalu wrote:I've seen as much criticism from the British and Irish. Personally I don't care too much. He's clearly enthusiastic, which is not a bad thing.
This thread is a reaction to the one started by Irishjohnny, who I believe comes from Whakatane.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Mick Mannock »

MrDominator wrote:A lot of it comes down to implicit racial bias.

People struggle with Itoje clapping because they don't like black men being demonstrative. The first rule any black man growing up in Western society learns is: Be calm - don't ever lose your temper or be emotional, because most white people can't handle it.

Equally, a lot of the Haka hate also comes because white people don't like Pacific-looking chappies sticking their tongues out and gurning aggressively. It stirs long-buried imperialist notions about the dangers posed by 'savages', etc.

The whole tour makes for fascinating social and anthropological observation.
Good post, although much of the Haka stuff is about white men sticking their tongues out and gurning
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Dork Lard »

cubby boi wrote:
grubberkick wrote:Do kiwis do self awareness? Why is it a problem if Itoje shows his emotion by clapping, whooping, arm in air if he achieves some success in all the effort that he puts into rugby? Presumably that's his cultural background. He has played one game and played well but gets the criticism. Yet look at what happened before the game kicked off. The entire kiwi team, even those with European heritage, went into a frenzy of hyper activity performing a maori war dance. Itoje has been a model of restraint by comparison. Whoop away Maro. ;)

Two wrongs don't make a right :thumbdown:
:thumbup:

Let me just simply put it this way...I didn't have any bias against Itoje whatsoever...until he started doing all that stuff. Now I fkng can't stand the boy, and for good reason. If he wished to portray himself as a humble young man, something all people value, then he's done it horribly wrong, and has attracted everything negative that comes with the opposite.
If you're a neutral. You can only wish for him to fail.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Mick Mannock »

Dork Lard wrote:
cubby boi wrote:
grubberkick wrote:Do kiwis do self awareness? Why is it a problem if Itoje shows his emotion by clapping, whooping, arm in air if he achieves some success in all the effort that he puts into rugby? Presumably that's his cultural background. He has played one game and played well but gets the criticism. Yet look at what happened before the game kicked off. The entire kiwi team, even those with European heritage, went into a frenzy of hyper activity performing a maori war dance. Itoje has been a model of restraint by comparison. Whoop away Maro. ;)

Two wrongs don't make a right :thumbdown:
:thumbup:

Let me just simply put it this way...I didn't have any bias against Itoje whatsoever...until he started doing all that stuff. Now I fkng can't stand the boy, and for good reason. If he wished to portray himself as a humble young man, something all people value, then he's done it horribly wrong, and has attracted everything negative that comes with the opposite.
If you're a neutral. You can only wish for him to fail.
I guess you mean that you hope every team he plays for lose. I used to feel the same way about Hairydonkey
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by CrazyIslander »

Itoje played really well. I think his celebrating is a good thing. The Lions need guys with attitude who back themselves.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Jays Myth »

It was the squealing like a little girl when the Blues were setting their line out that got my goat - what was he trying to achieve.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Hellraiser »

He's a wanker who behaves like a Premier League footballer.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Thai guy »

Jays Myth wrote:It was the squealing like a little girl when the Blues were setting their line out that got my goat - what was he trying to achieve.
This. The Crusaders forwards were all doing the whooping and backslapping during their SR match vs the Hurricanes so that's just something which has crept into the game.

It was the line out screaming which was embarrassing for him and at the end of the match his antics allowed the Blues to slow the game by re-checking the call.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Enzedder »

Hellraiser wrote:He's a wanker who behaves like a Premier League footballer.

Even they don't squeal like a schoolgirl when the opposition is throwing the ball in

#ranksworse
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by armchair pundit »

MrDominator wrote:A lot of it comes down to implicit racial bias.

People struggle with Itoje clapping because they don't like black men being demonstrative. The first rule any black man growing up in Western society learns is: Be calm - don't ever lose your temper or be emotional, because most white people can't handle it.

Equally, a lot of the Haka hate also comes because white people don't like Pacific-looking chappies sticking their tongues out and gurning aggressively. It stirs long-buried imperialist notions about the dangers posed by 'savages', etc.

The whole tour makes for fascinating social and anthropological observation.
It's bad sportsmanship and disrespectful to the opposition, and to an extent your own team mates (imo).

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with race.

And as a general rule, learning not to lose your temper is generally a pretty good development in a person; again, irrespective of racial background.
Last edited by armchair pundit on Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Grizz Wyllie »

grubberkick wrote:Do kiwis do self awareness? Why is it a problem if Itoje shows his emotion by clapping, whooping, arm in air if he achieves some success in all the effort that he puts into rugby?
That's the crux of it, he achieved a scrum penalty against he worst pack in New Zealand. Success never eventuated at full time. And then to top it off, he spent the entire game flapping about at lineouts to then miserably fail at the one lineout that truly mattered.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by JM2K6 »

There's apparently a good podcast interview with the similarly exuberant Ugo Monye where he talks about his Nigerian heritage and how being that expressive and excitable is part of the deal. It's odd to a lot of people but there's far, far, far too much being read into it by the people who think he's being disrespectful or deliberately needling the opposition or losing his temper or whatever. He's a key part of two of the most successful teams in recent years for good reason and it's not just his talent.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Bowens »

armchair pundit wrote:
MrDominator wrote:A lot of it comes down to implicit racial bias.

People struggle with Itoje clapping because they don't like black men being demonstrative. The first rule any black man growing up in Western society learns is: Be calm - don't ever lose your temper or be emotional, because most white people can't handle it.

Equally, a lot of the Haka hate also comes because white people don't like Pacific-looking chappies sticking their tongues out and gurning aggressively. It stirs long-buried imperialist notions about the dangers posed by 'savages', etc.

The whole tour makes for fascinating social and anthropological observation.
It's bad sportsmanship and disrespectful to the opposition, and to an extent your own team mates (imo).

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with race.

And as a general rule, learning not to lose your temper is generally a pretty good development in a person; again, irrespective of racial background.
Indeed. Itoje has better control of his at age 22 than lots of lads, in rugby or otherwise.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Hawk97 »

Itoje writes poetry FFS. He's a level-headed lad.


....too level headed. :uhoh:
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Re: Itoje and the haka

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grubberkick wrote:Do kiwis do self awareness? Why is it a problem if Itoje shows his emotion by clapping, whooping, arm in air if he achieves some success in all the effort that he puts into rugby? Presumably that's his cultural background. He has played one game and played well but gets the criticism. Yet look at what happened before the game kicked off. The entire kiwi team, even those with European heritage, went into a frenzy of hyper activity performing a maori war dance. Itoje has been a model of restraint by comparison. Whoop away Maro. ;)
I'm hearing a sound. Like a strong gust of wind....
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by HurricaneWasp »

JM2K6 wrote:There's apparently a good podcast interview with the similarly exuberant Ugo Monye where he talks about his Nigerian heritageand how being that expressive and excitable is part of the deal. It's odd to a lot of people but there's far, far, far too much being read into it by the people who think he's being disrespectful or deliberately needling the opposition or losing his temper or whatever. He's a key part of two of the most successful teams in recent years for good reason and it's not just his talent.
I know plenty of Nigerians, and none of them act like that. They are generally moderate and humble in my experience, just like most other people. In no way is this a cultural thing for Itoje. It is simply dispositional.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Grizz Wyllie »

JM2K6 wrote:He's a key part of two of the most successful teams in recent years for good reason and it's not just his talent.
I think that's got a large part to play in it, as well. He's never really had to take his lumps. Which is why this tour could be fascinating for his character development.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by JM2K6 »

HurricaneWasp wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:There's apparently a good podcast interview with the similarly exuberant Ugo Monye where he talks about his Nigerian heritageand how being that expressive and excitable is part of the deal. It's odd to a lot of people but there's far, far, far too much being read into it by the people who think he's being disrespectful or deliberately needling the opposition or losing his temper or whatever. He's a key part of two of the most successful teams in recent years for good reason and it's not just his talent.
I know plenty of Nigerians, and none of them act like that. They are generally moderate and humble in my experience, just like most other people. In no way is this a cultural thing for Itoje. It is simply dispositional.
That's cool man, you go ahead and disagree with Ugo on this :thumbup:
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by bimboman »

Grizz Wyllie wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:He's a key part of two of the most successful teams in recent years for good reason and it's not just his talent.
I think that's got a large part to play in it, as well. He's never really had to take his lumps. Which is why this tour could be fascinating for his character development.

Yeah give him a good kicking.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Dork Lard »

Mick Mannock wrote:
I guess you mean that you hope every team he plays for lose. I used to feel the same way about Hairydonkey
okay. Why ?
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Mick Mannock »

HurricaneWasp wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:There's apparently a good podcast interview with the similarly exuberant Ugo Monye where he talks about his Nigerian heritageand how being that expressive and excitable is part of the deal. It's odd to a lot of people but there's far, far, far too much being read into it by the people who think he's being disrespectful or deliberately needling the opposition or losing his temper or whatever. He's a key part of two of the most successful teams in recent years for good reason and it's not just his talent.
I know plenty of Nigerians, and none of them act like that. They are generally moderate and humble in my experience, just like most other people. In no way is this a cultural thing for Itoje. It is simply dispositional.
I have worked with plenty and many act like that.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Ulsters Red Hand »

Hellraiser wrote:He's a wanker who behaves like a Premier League footballer.
+1
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by alliswell »

Bowens wrote:It's good to see some emotion out there compared to droids like Warburton.
Absolutely this. That lad bores the arse off me.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Zakar »

There's a prop the kiwis don't seen to like either.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Hawk97 »

Mick Mannock wrote:
HurricaneWasp wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:There's apparently a good podcast interview with the similarly exuberant Ugo Monye where he talks about his Nigerian heritageand how being that expressive and excitable is part of the deal. It's odd to a lot of people but there's far, far, far too much being read into it by the people who think he's being disrespectful or deliberately needling the opposition or losing his temper or whatever. He's a key part of two of the most successful teams in recent years for good reason and it's not just his talent.
I know plenty of Nigerians, and none of them act like that. They are generally moderate and humble in my experience, just like most other people. In no way is this a cultural thing for Itoje. It is simply dispositional.
I have worked with plenty and many act like that.
Yeah, put me down for "they're quite an excitable bunch".
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Mick Mannock »

Zakar wrote:There's a prop the kiwis don't seen to like either.
I think there are a couple
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by HurricaneWasp »

JM2K6 wrote:
HurricaneWasp wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:There's apparently a good podcast interview with the similarly exuberant Ugo Monye where he talks about his Nigerian heritageand how being that expressive and excitable is part of the deal. It's odd to a lot of people but there's far, far, far too much being read into it by the people who think he's being disrespectful or deliberately needling the opposition or losing his temper or whatever. He's a key part of two of the most successful teams in recent years for good reason and it's not just his talent.
I know plenty of Nigerians, and none of them act like that. They are generally moderate and humble in my experience, just like most other people. In no way is this a cultural thing for Itoje. It is simply dispositional.
That's cool man, you go ahead and disagree with Ugo on this :thumbup:
I lived in Nigeria for about 5 years mate...
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by JM2K6 »

HurricaneWasp wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
HurricaneWasp wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:There's apparently a good podcast interview with the similarly exuberant Ugo Monye where he talks about his Nigerian heritageand how being that expressive and excitable is part of the deal. It's odd to a lot of people but there's far, far, far too much being read into it by the people who think he's being disrespectful or deliberately needling the opposition or losing his temper or whatever. He's a key part of two of the most successful teams in recent years for good reason and it's not just his talent.
I know plenty of Nigerians, and none of them act like that. They are generally moderate and humble in my experience, just like most other people. In no way is this a cultural thing for Itoje. It is simply dispositional.
That's cool man, you go ahead and disagree with Ugo on this :thumbup:
I lived in Nigeria for about 5 years mate...
Listen, feel free to write in and tell him he's wrong.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Mick Mannock »

HurricaneWasp wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
HurricaneWasp wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:There's apparently a good podcast interview with the similarly exuberant Ugo Monye where he talks about his Nigerian heritageand how being that expressive and excitable is part of the deal. It's odd to a lot of people but there's far, far, far too much being read into it by the people who think he's being disrespectful or deliberately needling the opposition or losing his temper or whatever. He's a key part of two of the most successful teams in recent years for good reason and it's not just his talent.
I know plenty of Nigerians, and none of them act like that. They are generally moderate and humble in my experience, just like most other people. In no way is this a cultural thing for Itoje. It is simply dispositional.
That's cool man, you go ahead and disagree with Ugo on this :thumbup:
I lived in Nigeria for about 5 years mate...
So what?
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by Auckman »

It's a beautiful beautiful morning today.

Life is beautiful. :D



meh, am over Itoje. He played well and will be a handful in the tests.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by HurricaneWasp »

Mick Mannock wrote:[quote="HurricaneWasp]
I lived in Nigeria for about 5 years mate...
So what?[/quote][/quote]
That's probably longer than Monye ever has. And I can safely say that that isn't their general attitude. Although my caveat is that the Nigerian-Brit culture is clearly different to the actual Nigerian culture.
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Re: Itoje and the haka

Post by alliswell »

Hawk97 wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
HurricaneWasp wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:There's apparently a good podcast interview with the similarly exuberant Ugo Monye where he talks about his Nigerian heritageand how being that expressive and excitable is part of the deal. It's odd to a lot of people but there's far, far, far too much being read into it by the people who think he's being disrespectful or deliberately needling the opposition or losing his temper or whatever. He's a key part of two of the most successful teams in recent years for good reason and it's not just his talent.
I know plenty of Nigerians, and none of them act like that. They are generally moderate and humble in my experience, just like most other people. In no way is this a cultural thing for Itoje. It is simply dispositional.
I have worked with plenty and many act like that.
Yeah, put me down for "they're quite an excitable bunch".
There's nearly 200 million of them. Might be there's a good bit of variation in personality types.
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